High Cholesterol - natural treatment

[terrymoore]

Hi,
SO, i have always been on the "borderline-high" side of my cholesterol numbers - even pre-poz.
I always exercised and looked good and never gave much thought about what i ate - sort of like a teenager i guess.
The first time a doctor suggested that i change my diet (10 years before i was diagnosed HIV), instead of listening, i was like "screw this!" and decided never to go to a doctor for another depressing check-up. My logic was, i felt good, i looked good, i trained hard, worked hard, played hard - life was good. Why worry?
Fats forward 10 years, HIV Dx, aggressive treatment and my Cholesterol was in the sky. The doc put me on statins, and, becuase i was still in shock from the Dx, i took them without even thinking - as if it was part of my HIV meds. Fast forward a few months, UD, high CD4, change of regiment to Complera, and Cholesterol down to normal levels, i asked my doc to stop with the statins and he was ok.
The first 3 months were good - normal levels.
the next 3 months, i took a summer vacation, ate like a pig (i would eat the fat on the steak!!) and didn`t really exercise. I came back and BOOM! Cholesterol around 275 (supposed to be less than 200) and the LDL was like 210 (should be less than 100). WOW! I convince the doc to allow me to treat it naturally. HE says sure, you have your entire life to start statins - give it a shot".
So here i am 3 months later and i just got my results:
CD4 stiil ~1200 @ 46%
VL still <40 i.e UD
Cholesterol = 210
LDL = 166
HDL = 36
I have treated myself naturally with Garlic pills, Fish oil pills, chia, FLax seeds and trying to eat healthier.
I admit that i was not perfect with my diet and with my exercise.
So my question before i see the doc today:
Even though there was significant improvement overall, my LDL and HDL are still bad.
I wonder if it is too soon to see the FULL results of the fish oil etc ? I wonder if it is possible that my numbers will get me even better? Or, is it the opposite? Meaning, have i maxed out, and, no matter how much i try, my numbers will be high, and i have to take statins if i want to lower them any more.
Obviously i am trying to avoid taking statins, but is this a futile battle?
Shall i just take the statin and live normally?
My blood pressure is still normal (although i notice a slight steady rise compared to a few years ago).
i HAVE put on some weight in the last few months and have not really trained as regularly as i used to because of work load and general laziness. I also have started drinking more often in the last few months - something that i know if i cut down will reduce my weight in help my general health.
Thoughts? Sage advise? Insights?

[Jim Allen]

I wish you all the best with the follow up appointment with your doctor.
Also clue your doctor into what you have been eating.

To be honest diets are nice things, too much and it is a bad thing we should have a balance in stuff. But look if you can't keep to it and keep eating junk-food and it is not resolving the problems than you have your answer.

Jim

[terrymoore]

Hi Jim,
You always give clear and sober advice - damn you! hahaha

It went ok. In his words "I am not worried about your HIV treatment at all - all os well there. Your cholesterol is better - still high, but better. Keep eating healthy, try to be a bit healthIER, lose a few kg and then let`s touch base in 3 months."
He understands i want to avoid the statins and since my other labs are good, and my bp is good, he is ok with me holding off.
Let`s see. With Xmas vacation coming up it will be a challenge hahaha! Will keep you guys posted.
Thanks!

[wolfter]

Some people have naturally high cholesterol which can not be controlled by diet and exercise.

Mine was always dangerously high and I didn't worry myself too much until I had my first heart attack at the age of 36 and my 2nd one 6 years later.  I had blocked arteries and severe plaque build up.

It definitely was not diet/exercise related as I ramped up my already mostly vegetarian diet and I have a highly active lifestyle.

Finally went on pravastatin and achieved ultimal results within mere months.  I also did a test and went off of them (with my dr's ok) and they immediately returned to pre treatment levels.  I've since been back on the statin with ultimal numbers again. 

Why such pushback on taking a statin?  It's just a little pill per day.

[bocker3]

I'm with Wolfie on this one!!

I have been taking statins for about 25 yrs.  Now I know some folks simply can't take them because of the side effects, but I've been fortunate.

I started them when my doc suggested because, frankly, I couldn't control with diet/exercise and my family history was ominous.  Most men on my dad's side rarely lived past 50 because of cardiac issues.  I wanted a longer life than that, so I take that pill.  Interestingly, it helped me not worry about taking my HIV meds every day once I became poz -- I'd been taking a pill every day anyway, what was 1 more (it turned into 3 more, but that's another story).

So -- if you can do it without meds, GREAT!!  However, you seem to be "scared" about taking this pill -- why is that?  Did you have any side effects the first time, I mean other than controlled cholesterol levels  .

BTW -- I think your supplements are simply expensive wastes of time.  there is nothing "natural" about a fish oil pills, garlic pills, etc.  If you want more fish oil, eat more fish.  Taking a statin is certainly less work, IMO, than juggling all that other stuff.

Good luck.

[terrymoore]

Hi,
You both raised some good points and ulitametlu the same question - why am i so against taking the statins? hmmm.....
there are a few reasons but i will mention 3.
1. The first one and it is the main reason is psychological. To me, it is something my grandmother took and if i start taking statins it is like me admitting that i am getting old. I know, stupid. But if i am being honest, this is the real reason.i do not want to admit defeat (i.e i`m getting old(er)).
2. The last time i took them, i felt slight cramping and twitching in my calf. I am not sure if it related, but after reading up on statins, i was convinced it was related.
3. I hear and read many bad things about statins. Of course it does wonders for those who really need it, but there is lots of evidence of "big pharma" intervening and lots of evidence coming out lately that there are long term side affects.
You guys are right - it is NOT such a big deal, especially if i cannot control my levels by myself. And yeah, i hate the fish oil and the rest of that crap.
I will give it another 3 months, see if i can shed some weight, pick up the cardio and see what happens. if i do not succeed, i will start taking.

[wolfter]

One thing to keep in mind; there are many different options available.  My first med was Lipitor which I used for a few months and absolutely made the decision that the side issues were greater than the benefits.  I reluctantly agreed to Pravastatin and have had no issues.

If you experience issues with one med, explore your options (just like HIV meds). 

I never examine side effects before starting any meds or having medical procedures as I believe they can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I recently had Lasik surgery and didn't even review the list of potential complications.  And I experienced none.

best of luck

[bocker3]

1. The first one and it is the main reason is psychological. To me, it is something my grandmother took and if i start taking statins it is like me admitting that i am getting old. I know, stupid. But if i am being honest, this is the real reason.i do not want to admit defeat (i.e i`m getting old(er)).

Statins are not just for the old!!  I started taking them in my 20's!!  So, if they are for the old, then I am REALLY ANCIENT now!!!    LOL 

I'm not necessarily trying to convince you to take them -- I'm just trying to help you look at this from a rational POV instead of an emotional one.

Of course, if you do ever start them again -- let your doctor know if you have any side effects that might be caused by them - but as Wolfter points out, there are a number of different statins on the market.  I started with Zocor, but had to switch to Lipitor when I began my HIV meds.  Oh - and be sure to start with the smallest dosage you can to get the results you need.  I take 20mg, my husband needs 40mg.

Good luck!

Mike

[Expat1]

Terry.. 
I had high cholesterol and low HDL,  I took statins for 15-20 years.  A year ago my Alt was continually around 50 so I asked my GP if I could try stopping the statins.  He said ok and we monitor.  He recommended fish oil also.  6 months and still great numbers.  I admit that I eat a lot less meat now then 15 years ago.

I also use Benecol which is a yogurt product that has plant sterols.  You might want to google it. (I get mine at Tops) and it is availiable in Thailand.  You might try that also.   It costs about 28 baht for a very small serving.  (Like the fermented milks). 

[wolfter]

Terry.. 
I had high cholesterol and low HDL,  I took statins for 15-20 years.  A year ago my Alt was continually around 50 so I asked my GP if I could try stopping the statins.  He said ok and we monitor.  He recommended fish oil also.  6 months and still great numbers.  I admit that I eat a lot less meat now then 15 years ago.

I also use Benecol which is a yogurt product that has plant sterols.  You might want to google it. (I get mine at Tops) and it is availiable in Thailand.  You might try that also.   It costs about 28 baht for a very small serving.  (Like the fermented milks).

Ultimal reduction of 10%?  I'll leave it at that.

[wolfter]

This is scary shit having snake oil salespeople giving a bunch of crap without .......nevermind, I think the first part of my response says enough

[harleymc]

LOTS of soluble fibre is the way to go for lowering cholesterol.

Generally if you're eating your 5 serves of vegetables and 2 of fruit you should be getting pretty good fibre amounts.

BTW metamucil is about 50% sugar so if you want the same fibre as contained in metamucil, but without the diabetes hit, buy psyllium husks.

[dinster]

I agree with the comment on fiber. Back in the day, it seems like much more emphasis was placed on having a high-fiber diet versus today. In addition to any benefits in regards to improving one's lipid profile, it also is great for GI function.

[Jim Allen]

@dinster

Welcome to the forum.

As a new member it is customary to open your own introduction thread and introduce yourself to the forum members, let us know how you are getting on with treatment etc etc. it will give more members an opportunity to get to know you and reply with support if you need it.

If you have been recently diagnosed you can post this here https://forums.poz.com/index.php?board=16.0

Otherwise you can post your introduction in the living with HIV section, found here:
https://forums.poz.com/index.php?board=2.0

Jim