POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: cobiz on June 08, 2006, 05:49:07 am
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Hi guys, first I would like to thank you for the good job that you are doing. I need to understand something which is not clear to me. My question is that, are there chances of a man to have an aggressive unprotected varginal sex with a female pos and still survive any chances of contracting the virus from her? Lately, this happened to me and four weeks after the first encounter I tested neg but this was 2 weeks after the last encounter according to my calculations. Please give me some explainations.
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Not everyone contracts HIV from a given exposure. But you are playing Roulette, having unprotected sex. If it continues you that you have unprotected sex you'll be in the "Living With Forum" instead of the fears forum. Make sure you test 12/13 weeks past your last unprotected exposure and always use condoms and plenty of water base lube.
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I don't know what you mean by "aggressive unprotected sex." Whether aggressive or not, unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse is the highest risk behavior sexually in relation to HIV.
As Rod has pointed out you do need to get tested and the CDC recommends doing that at 13 weeks. Hopefully you will test negative. HIV is not an easy virus to transmit. But you do need to wakeup to the reality that everytime you have unprotected intercourse you are putting your life at risk. It's as stark and as simple as that.
What you need to be doing if you care about your life and that of your partner(s) is using a latex condom everytime you have intercourse. No exceptions.
Good luck with your test.
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Could slow healing of any body wounds indicate anything to do with hiv in terms of immune defiency aspects.
Kind regards
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Cobiz,
Symptoms or the lack of symptoms mean nothing when it comes to hiv infection. But you already know that, don't you.
The ONLY way to know your hiv status is through testing.
If you're worried that your wounds aren't healing properly, go see a doctor.
Ann
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And no, slow healing of an injury should absolutely not be (mis)interpreted as a sign of HIV infection.
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Hi Ann
I have some questions that your comments on another thread " some questions I need to be cleared" have made be to be concerned. Actually, I have quoted you saying that you are yet to see a person contracting hiv from a condom breakage, what do you really mean with this? Does it mean condom breakage never lead to transmission? Secondly, on a personal level, as to your boyfriend who has ever since remained neg after your testing pos was he circumsized during the period of the exposure? I would higly appreciate you answers to this questions.
Kind regards
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Cobiz,
I have yet to see someone IN THIS FORUM, who was the INSERTIVE partner with a condom break test positive. The highest risk during a condom break, as always, is with the receptive partner. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen occasionally that the insertive partner becomes infected following a broken condom, but it's pretty rare.
Make sure you are using condoms correctly. A correctly used condom rarely breaks.
My partner is NOT circumcised and I don't believe he has any plans for being circumcised either.
Ann
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Ann
There is something about you that is somehow spectacular in answering and giving feedback to issues. I am curious to know your age and real profession? And if you are white or black? Yes I am very curious to figure out your image in mind coz you are just too great.
Cobiz
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Cobiz,
If you want to find out more about me, read my blog and start at the beginning. This isn't the time or place for a discussion about me.
Ann
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A brief question.
In case somebody has a thrush which clearly means a compromised immune body system, does it mean he/she is likely to become infected in a given exposure more than somebody else whose immune body system has not been compromised in anyway.
Thanx
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No, because one has thrush, does not mean they have a compromised immune system.
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But according to Morgan response to another post, that is the case.
Regards
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Cobiz,
Morgan was wrong.
Ann
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Ann
What other facts are out there concerning condom breakage and hiv transmission. I am asking this because you once told me that you are yet to see someone in this forum getting infected through this manner. Thus, I am curious to know what facts are outside there that have not been experienced in this forum. And if the utherus and foreskin are susceptible to hiv transmission, doesn't a condom breakage especially on the head of the pennis prooves to be a really high exposure to hiv infection.
Regards
Cobiz
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Cobiz,
For you as the insertive partner, having a condom break is NOT high risk. It is a risk, but not a high one. You were protected up until the condom broke. Hiv is more difficult to transmit to the insertive partner anyway and it would be unusual for you to become infected during your brief moments of being unprotected.
Exposure does not automatically equal infection.
You must be getting near the time when you can test for a reliable result. Try to stay productively busy in the meantime and let us know when you get what I fully expect to be a negative result.
Ann
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Is this logical?
My days to get a conclusive results are a couple of days away and I am getting this feeling that I should not go for the test now. Currently I am frustrated with a lot of issues which have kept me significantly stressed out and considering that I might test pos, this could add my worries and eventually make me start suffering from the sickness very fast. At least at the moment I have been able to convince myself through your advise that I stand a chance of having survived the infection and that makes me quite relaxed. Is it logical to await and test later in the future and just keep my relaxed feeling which can make me live longer before the virus can start attacking in case it's in my blood.
Kind regards
Cobiz
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Cobiz,
I wasn't clear in my recent post regarding thrush. A lot of people come to this forum complaining of symptoms of thrush and relate it to primary hiv infection. They look in the mirror, see a white tongue, and say "this is thrush, I have been infected with hiv". I was trying to point out that thrush can be, and has been, one of many ailments that alert some who have unknowingly been infected for many years to the fact that something is wrong.
What I neglected to add was that thrush can appear in anyone and, in and of itself, does not necessarily point to a compromised immune system.
The distinction I was trying to make was that its significance as an hiv symptom is not at primary infection. And I left the impression that it points to a compromised immune system in any who have it. This is not the case.
Just wanted to clear this up.
Morgan
edited to thank Rod for catching this in the other post ;)
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Cobiz,
You should go and test as soon as you can have a conclusive result. This way, when you get that inevitable negative result, you will have one less thing in your life to stress out about.
Seriously.
Ann
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Ann
I do not understand why you are telling the Austrailianguy he is hiv negative when he clearly states that he has tested positive on the 86th day. Does it mean he had a false positive and why do you seem to be ruling it out?
Regards
Cobiz
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Ann
Sorry, I think I misunderstood the post.
Regards
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Cobiz,
He said he tested negative.
I tested HIV- at 86 days after giving unprotected oral sex without ejaculation to a guy.
He's using shorthand for hiv negative. Some people do. Hiv positive would appear as hiv+ and hiv negative appears as hiv-.
Please read more carefully in future.
Ann
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Dear Meds,
Although I understand symptoms means nothing when it comes to hiv infection, would it be right to say that lack of any symptoms during and after the window period serve to be a better and encouraging indication as compared to cases where primary infection may have been detected? In other words, what is the average percentage or probability of primary infection appearing in the window period? Is it 10% 50% or 80% that newly infected people will have symptoms or not? What is the measured average?
Secondly, would a 4 week test after any serious exposure not return as (intermediate) that is for instance neither positive nor negative?
Thirdly, how fast on an average number of days/months/years does loss in weight begin to appear or showing as a result of hiv infection. Probably, this could be used as a yardstick to give a rough estimate or guess as to when some one got infected.
Kind regards
Cobiz
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I didn't loose weight for almost twenty one years and then I've gained it all back. As to your first question I didn't have symptoms at all. I don't recommend testing until at least 12 weeks after possible exposure.
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RapidRod
I did not mean to ask you about your own particular situation but rather know what could be documented or percieved in principle.
Regards
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Meds
Where are you to help us with our querries? I highly appreciate your valued opinions and would like some insight on my post and also the other post regarding " Confused - why am I negative" by another member in the forum.
Regards
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Cobiz,
Stop worrying about other members of the forum. Just go and get tested at the 12-13 week mark. Also you might like to read our Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0).
Yeah, yeah I know you have already, but you might want to give it one more go. ;)
Regards
MtD
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MtD
All of us here we are worrying and we know we have to get tested 12- 13 weeks. However, asking for some insight to build some couarge which is helping a lot, I think doesn't do any harm. So if you are specialised and have some information, be as generous as possible, this is a noble thing you guys are doing.
About my concern about other members post, I believe it's extremely important to be knowledegable and informed in order to understand and fight this epidemic that has caused much havoc in the world or not?
Kind regards
Cobiz
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Read the Lesson sections. You can find the information you need to know there. The link is in the Welcome thread.
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I have read it but it's not answering my concern consisely.
Regards
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All of us here we are worrying and we know we have to get tested 12- 13 weeks. However, asking for some insight to build some couarge which is helping a lot, I think doesn't do any harm. So if you are specialised and have some information, be as generous as possible, this is a noble thing you guys are doing.
Yeah and all of us here who take the time and effort to answer your questions are aware of that, so don't take that high handed tone with me, mister. It won't work. The rudeness of you!
Why don't you do us the common courtesy of reading the bloody Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0)? This is a two way street you know. We answer your questions and provide you with the best HIV information on the frigging internet and all we get is attitude. It's incumbent on you to do something for yourself.
Take some responsibility for a change.
MtD
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Mtd
I think you are getting easily irritated of which is not my intent. I don't see anything wrong that I have said or written for you to respond that way. I have actually told you I respect your work and the nobility in it so what's the fuss all about?
I just went through the welcoming thread but still my concern was not met and therefore I thought I should seek an opinion that's all.
Regards
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I think you are getting easily irritated of which is not my intent. I don't see anything wrong that I have said or written for you to respond that way. I have actually told you I respect your work and the nobility in it so what's the fuss all about?
I just went through the welcoming thread but still my concern was not met and therefore I thought I should seek an opinion that's all.
Regards
Cobiz,
Don't attempt to molify me.
My point is this. The answers to your questions are contained in this thread and the christing Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0). You're not special, you don't need or deserve a special answer.
Take the hint champion. You talk too much. Read, and hopefully, understand. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over. I have nothing further to add to this discourse.
MtD
(Who is being a paragon of restraint)
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Mtd
I suppose that is the way you are. How do you even know that I talk too much or I am not just curious for info? Though I know I pay nothing for your opinion I think some customer relationship on your part will do much good.
Perhaps, it's important for you to know that not all of us are that intelligent to sieve and understand a given piece of information and I also know I am not special neither.
You'd have better told me you do not have any answers to my querries and I would still have appreciated. Where in the welcoming thread do you want to me to find the information which I connot clearly relate to my concern?
Just do me a favour, instead of boiling up, just copy and paste for me the information to read and I shall keep my presumed big mouth shut.
I hope the next post would not be a threat to to ban me.
Regards
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Cobiz,
It is unclear just exactly what you want from us. You have been given all the information on window periods and whatnot - and there is nothing more we can do for you.
As hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus and more so from a woman to a man, your four week negative is not likely to change. The only thing for it now is to test again at the 12-13 week point and collect what I fully expect will be another negative result.
If you need more intense support to help you though the remainder of your window period, I suggest you get some face-to-face counseling. There is only so much we can do for you over the internet - and we've already done what we can. Stay productively busy while you wait to test and the time will go much quicker.
Ann
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I cannot imagine anything I could add to the advice given by Rod, Matty, Ann, and Andy on this thread. They really are among the Who's Who of HIV education and prevention science.
*edited to comment*
Whenever I say that, it's usually a preface to some long winded essay. Oops.
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HIV transmission is statistically a rare event, especially from receptive partner to the insertive partner. It happens, and it happens enough to create and perpetuate a terrible pandemic. But it is entirely possible to have "aggressive" unprotected vaginal sex with someone who is HIV positive and not become infected. It's possible to have an entirely unprotected sexual relationship for years, and not become infected.
It has certainly happened on these forums.
And there are many complicated reasons for that, from the number of viable, infectious viral particles in a person's body at any given moment to the genetic makeup of the negative partner. Viral load, stress, the overall immune system of both parties, et al.
HIV is constantly mutating within the body, and at any given moment, the number of viable infectious particles is minute, and malleable. It's akin to chaos theory. Trying to place any quantifier on it that has any meaning whatsoever.
I am going to pour a cup of hot tea. Statistically, I could burn myself, though I know I probably won't. However, even if I do, it does not translate to the science of tea growing in the West Indies and it's potential negative impact on my health. You just can't make extrapolations like that.
If you have had unprotected sex, then testing at the three month period is your only sure course of action. It is unlikely that you were infected, but not impossible.
One of the frustrating things about HIV education and testing is undoing the sloppy and incomplete media-driven information that has been perpetuated for decades. Science is not about the absolute, though it certainly strives towards that goal. We exist in a world made of mutable factors, like an ever-changing virus and the unique properties of each human being, like each moment in time. Living with that molecular uncertainty is hard, but it's our universe.
What we do know, with a medical certainty, is that an HIV test perforned at three months past your condom break is considered definitive. And to that end, I wish you all the best.
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Dear Meds
Although I know it's only through testing at the appropriate time that my worries and concerns would be concluded, it's my simple wish to get an opinion on these issues:
What is the average percentage or probability of primary infection appearing in the window period? Is it 10% 50% or 80% that newly infected people will have symptoms or not? What is the measured average?
Secondly, would a 4 week test after any serious exposure most likely not return as (intermediate) that is for instance neither positive nor negative?
Thirdly, how fast on an average number of days/months/years does loss in weight begin to appear or showing as a result of hiv infection. Probably, this could be used as a yardstick to give a rough estimate or guess as to when some one got infected. (In this case I mean my partner)
I have read the welcoming thread but I did not find exact answers on these issues. And incase I am becoming a bother just ignore this post and I shall just look for the information somewhere else.
Kind regards
Cobiz
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Then I suggest you look elsewhere. The information has been given to you. A four week test can tell you negative, positive, or intermediate it would be far from a conclusive test which you have been told is 12/13 weeks after possible exposure.
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There ARE no exact answers to those questions, as the studies (which are few and far between) that have attmepted to document that information have yielded vastly different results from paper to paper. Suffering from small control groups, data collection which is reliant on patient report, and the subjective study of an entirely objective phenomenon such as ARS, efforts to make anything more specific insofar as symptomology and HIV infection is concerned have to date been relatively futile.
You appear to be looking for hard science where none exists. Some people experience profound seroconversion symptoms. Some people report only mild symptoms. And some, perhaps most, report few if any. The numbers differ drastically from study to study.
There ARE no exact answers to your question, as it depends on the perspective and the recollection of the infected which is unique and never mathematical.
Insofar as the amount of time between infection and progression to symptomatic HIV disease, that also varies widely. Not everyone loses weight at all, for example. Not everyone experiences symptoms the same way, or at the same pace.
On average, which as you know is jargon for a weak extrapolation of disparate data, a person who is not under medical treatment will begin to lose T Cells at the rate of roughly a hundred per year. When the cells dip beneath 200, opportunistic infections are statistically more likely. Most people on the planet never, ever know their baseline CD4 count. It varies widely from person to person, from 500 to 1500, with a margin for error at both ends of that spectrum. So interpreting those two pieces of data, it stands to reason that a person who is infected might.. but will not necessarily... show the impact of a suppressed immune system between three and thirteen YEARS after seroconversion.
Obviously, that rate can be impacted by stress, illness, substance use and abuse, and other factors. There are also genetic factors which might influence disease progression, along with the strain of HIV that establishes dominance. Some folks get sick within months of seroconversion. Others have lived for decades without showing a single symptom. We are only now studying these groups to any great extent, to find out why and how. The science is only now to a point where we can do so.
Perhaps if you ask those questions in a decade or two, there will be better answers.
What I DO know though, is that lack of symptoms has NO bearing on a person's HIV status. While there have been studies to suggest that those who have a profound seroconversion experience progress to an AIDS diagnosis more quickly than those who experience no symptoms, there is no study of which I am aware that suggests that seroconversion sickness is any indicator whatsoever of HIV status.
I do understand what you are looking for. HIV is unfortunately not quantifiable in the manner that you suggest or seem to require.
That's why this site specifically relies on risk assessment, NOT symptoms.
I have personally exhausted my ability to articulate this, and respectfully withdraw. A test at 13 weeks is your only logical course of action, and the only quantifiable, conclusive, reliable answer to your queries. In the meantime, you will simply need to grapple with your uncertainty in a universe where such precariousness is par for the course.
I sincerely wish you peace and health.
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Thank you very much for your detailed analysis.
Cobiz
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As a matter of cocern and without going into much details, I would like to state this serious opinion, condoms are not as effecient in preventing HIV infections as many of the meds here try to advocate. Perhaps, it would be better to advice people to stick to one partner or rather abstain completely from sex. Whether properly used or not, and no matter which label, this staff is subjected to tear and that's dangerous. I am talking out of personal experience which I feel I need to share with all.
Regards
Cobiz
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Cobiz,
Regardless of your opinion, correctly used condoms rarely break and are excellent when it comes to hiv transmission prevention. This fact has been proven again and again in studies.
Perhaps, it would be better to advice people to stick to one partner or rather abstain completely from sex.
This strategy has been proven to NOT work. Condoms prevent hiv transmission when used consistently and correctly and we are not going to change our message.
Maybe you should study the condom and lube links in my signature line, because if you're having trouble with condoms breaking, you are either not putting them on properly, not using enough lube, or using ones that don't fit you properly.
Condoms prevent hiv transmission. Use them correctly and consistently and you will avoid hiv infection.
Ann
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Hi Meds
In plain words, I would like to know if there have been any documented facts in the past which indicates hiv transmission through a condom breakage. (female to male)
Cheers
Cobiz