Deep kissing with HIV+ Guy (undetectable)

[inlove]

hello,
Im a HIV+ guy and undetectable for almost two years now. I've got two burning questions for you guys:

1) Ive started dating a HIV- guy and we kiss deeply and passionately very often. Problem is, sometimes I've got irritated gums and there is small amount of blood after i brush my teeth. I'd say my oral hygene is decent.

I know there should be a 30mins-1hr gap between brushing and kissing and I follow this rule. I even brush my teeth 2-3 hours prior to the meeting (as advised by my doctor)

But lately I've started being anxious and started to avoid deep kissing with this guy, because I want him to be completely safe with me.
He doesnt have any ulcers and his gums and teeth are in perfect condition but it still makes me worried.

2) What about oral sex, which Im desperately trying to avoid? Is he at risk by performing oral sex on me? (no ejaculation of course and no precum). I dont want to perform oral sex on him, i dont think its safe for him due to my problem with bleeding gums. 

We've been dating for almost 6 months and Its time to go further sexually, but I dont want to hurt this guy, looking forward to your answers, thank you

[Ptrk3]

inlove:  I've moved your post to its proper forum, since you write that you are HIV positive.

The most salient fact of your post is that you have been "undetectable" for two years, so it is extremely unlikely that your HIV-negative boyfriend will contract the HIV from you, regardless of your activities.

However, kissing, under any circumstances, is not a risk for HIV infection, so your anxiety is misplaced here.

Likewise, his performing unprotected oral sex on you is a theoretical risk only, but not a practical one, in your case, since you write that his gums--and presumably, his mouth--are in good condition (i.e., he does not have gaping wounds, etc.).  Because you are undetectable, the risk is, for all intents and purposes, zero.

If you do decide to perform unprotected oral sex on him, he is not at risk, since receiving oral sex is not a viable risk and, again, you are "undetectable."

Of course, how and which type of sexually activities you and your boyfriend engage is a private matter and depends on your comfort level as a couple and your own individual peace of mind.  Proceed as you and you boyfriend see fit.

[Lightfighter]

To caveat what Ptrk3 said, I would also look up Dr Joel Gallant and study his blog on tumblr and the body. Also do some research on the PARTNER study.

Those two are treasure troves of information. I even purchased Dr Gallant's book. While slightly dated, Descovy wasn't approved at the time of writing, it's still a very good resource.

[Jim Allen]

Yeah, I agree with Patrick.

Your fears are misplaced, you are not going to infect anyone with kissing, hugging, holding hands, sharing meals etc etc and you not going to infect anyone from sucking them/giving a BJ either.  I don't care what your doc said to be frank.

If you remain this worried and stressed speak to a therapist because after 2 years ill be honest you should be moving past this fear of infecting people already.   

As for the UD part well for intercourse use condoms as it offers some STI protection and perhaps for yourself at the moment it will add some additional peace of mind as you seem to be very anxious for no real reason.

In terms of HIV here is the consensus statement that may give you peace of mind. http://www.preventionaccess.org/consensus

People living with HIV on ART with an undetectable viral load in their blood have a negligible risk of sexual transmission of HIV.  Depending on the drugs employed it may take as long as six months for the viral load to become undetectable. Continued and reliable HIV suppression requires selection of appropriate agents and excellent adherence to treatment. HIV viral suppression should be monitored to assure both personal health and public health benefits.
​
NOTE:   An undetectable HIV viral load only prevents HIV transmission to sexual partners. Condoms also help prevent HIV transmission as well as other STIs and pregnancy. The choice of HIV prevention method may be different depending upon a person’s sexual practices, circumstances and relationships. For instance, if someone is having sex with multiple partners or in a non-monogamous relationship, they might consider using condoms to prevent other STIs.

Jim

[inlove]

thank you very much, this makes me more confident

[CaveyUK]

yep, you have a green light to get busy

Just don't contract another nasty

[inlove]

today I woke up with blood in between my teeth and I panicked as we did kiss deeply during the night plus I performed a little rimming on him. But I didnt brush my teeth before going to sleep so I dont know where the blood came from.

[Jim Allen]

Nobody has even been infected from rimming, you are not going to infect him from kissing either.

Your fears are misplaced, you are not going to infect anyone with kissing, hugging, holding hands, sharing meals etc etc and you not going to infect anyone from sucking them/giving a BJ either.  I don't care what your doc said to be frank.

If you remain this worried and stressed speak to a therapist because after 2 years ill be honest you should be moving past this fear of infecting people already.   

Anyhow stop panicking you had a bit of blood on/in your mouth the next morning, you did not infect him, you are not going to infect him.

He did not have blood pissing out of his mouth at the time and neither did you, and even than I would not be concerned about HIV.

Calm down and stop stressing out about this, as you can't build a relationship if you keep fearing this. If you are not already taking to someone face to face like a therapist you should to help you past this fear. Its going to ruin your relationship if you don't get past it.

Jim 

[Jim Allen]

What treatment are you taking currently BTW out of curiosity and how was your last CD4 count?

Also i am presuming the other person in this relationship knows and do they know you are having such fears and how are they coping with that?

Again you should be talking to someone to move past the fears, i am just concerned with the unneeded stress you have and to be honest the downer this is placing on you and your partner from enjoying the relationship

Jim

[inlove]

thank You Jim,

Im on Eviplera since the beginning of my infection and It works really well (tested positive in march 2015, started treatment mid-april and went undetectable two months later). My last CD4 count was 400, started from 250. Im picking up my latest results next week.

The therapist is a good idea as I have many fears. I was okay when diagnosed and never had any depressive thoughts but since Im in a relationship Im worried day by day of transmiting the virus to my partner. 

I got the virus from being in a relationship with a person who had many unprotected intercourses outside of the relationship and never took care of his health. I trusted him and was blindfolded.

I fell in love again with someone and I promised myself Im never gonna hurt anyone like I was hurt myself.

[Jim Allen]

Yeah, and look the suggestions from the others and myself is not to dismiss you I want to be clear on that.

Glad to hear you have fallen in love again and opened up your life to someone and I wish you both the very best however

Im in a relationship Im worried day by day of transmiting the virus to my partner.

Its this very thought process that is simply not healthy or constructive and if you don't get control of it, it will control you and erode / damage the relationship. Trust me if been there and done it and it cost me and left me with regrets, no need for you to make the same error.

In short so far you are not at risk with your actions to transmit the virus, so go kiss you partner, enjoy your Sunday and laugh, put this fear behind you. 

Keep us posted on how you get on.

Jim 

[inlove]

hi guys,
coming back with a question:
is there a risk for transmission coming from bites?
Yesterday my hiv- boyfriend bit my ear lobe while kissing it.
I didnt see any blood after the accident but his teeth could potentially break my skin.
Im on meds and undetectable for two years.

Is this a risky situation for him?

[Ptrk3]

No, it is not a risky situation for him.  He will not become HIV infected because he "bit" your earlobe under any circumstance that can be imagined.

[inlove]

thank you!
and another burning question:
 For how long should I avoid kissing my boyfriend when theres a little blood after brushing my teeth?
He's coming in about an hour and I just saw a little blood after spitting my toothpaste

[Jim Allen]

Man,  look you are not going to infect your boyfriend from brushing your teeth 30/60 mins earlier. 

We have covered this and unless you both have blood pissing out of your faces and   decide to try and drink from each other whilst both still bleeding its not a risk.
Now I presume you used a toothbrush not an axle grinder. 

Really I have to come back to the point that this thought process is simply not healthy or constructive and if you don't get control of it, it will control you and erode / damage the relationship.  Look I understand you are concerned but you also need to live your life.

I wish you well.

Jim

[Jim Allen]

Hi OP

I'm going to lock this thread as its run its course, before I do I just wanted to check if all is going okay and how you are doing on topic?

Jim