Author Topic: Fidel Castro (Read 5225 times)

Jody · « **on:** February 19, 2008, 11:32:08 pm »

All my life the only name I have ever associated with Cuba was Fidel Castro (well except maybe Desi Arnaz

)...I knew Cuban Americans in New York when my father managed a clothing store in the Washington Heights neighborhood in upper Manhattan...They were passionate in their hatred of Castro, as are so many in Miami...I never gave it much thought and admittedly I lean left politically, though I would hardly call myself a radical socialist, Che I am not. I support democratic elections everywhere on earth, but I often wondered why a Fidel would come into power in the first place.

Cuba, before Castro, was run by a criminal cabal headed by Batista...Children everywhere were dying of TB and other diseases, while casinos for foreigners and some rich Cubans thrived...I am only asking but did the quality of life improve for the vast majority of Cubans after Castro took power?...Did they not get education, adequate housing and health care or did the loss of power for the Catholic church and the power elite stifle capitalism and economic gain for some and hurt the nation's future?

I guess a balance is what is best but it seems in most nations on earth this is most elusive and I wonder whether most Cubans, certainly back in the 1950's and 60's, did not see a quality of life improvement under Fidel. We keep hearing of the need for democracy in the world (an excuse for the war in Iraq) but what really is at stake in a democracy?- the chance for some to thrive at the expense of the majority or (ideally) real freedom for all citizens?

Difficult to say I suppose.

Jody

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2008, 11:38:25 pm »

Ah Jodala,

Fidel has always been a difficult one for lefties.

When I was younger, a lot of my SL mates used to talk about becoming "Brigadistas", ie joining brigades of young socialists and travelling to Cuba for a year on a "study tour" as a guest of the Cuban government.

The attraction was never strong for me, but a few of my more militant friends did it.

One of them got malaria.

Personally I have no time for authoritarian regimes, and Fidel's Cuba is no different. When one of my more misguided comrades starts to sing the praises of Brother Castro (usually accompanied by slagging off the US) I ask them one question:

"Would you rather spend time in an American prison or a Cuban prison?"

Invariably they shut they fuck up at that point.

Che, on the other hand, was an idiot. Best thing he did for the revolution was die on a airstrip in Bolivia. But I digress . . .

MtD

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2008, 11:47:33 pm »

At the same time, was Fidel's regime any worse that the somewhat supported Duvalier(s) of Haiti or Trujillo of the Dominican Republic? They weren't communists, and as long as they weren't the West more or less looked the other way. Unfortunately the world was long littered with nasty, petty dictators on both extremes of the political spectrum.

Keep in mind that Castro's revolution was not communist originally, though Che decidedly was. Castro even visited the US that first year to try and get some support, but was shunned by Eisenhower and abused by VP Nixon. They could have easily reached out and prevented Castro from sliding into Soviet hands by advocating land reform and loosening the control of US sugar companies on the Cuban economy, something they'd controlled for over 60 years.

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2008, 11:52:31 pm »

Well Philly,

Matty did say "authoritarian regimes" and didn't single out communist operations. Certainly there have been and still are places that are much worse than Cuba.

Iran and Saudia Arabia spring to mind. I hate Islamic regimes.

Nonetheless Cuba routinely tortures and kills dissidents and does all the other nasty things we largely live free of. As a socialist, I've always had a problem with the rosy eyed view we're expected to have of these things.

MtD
(Who is not suggesting that Philly has a rosy eyed view of Cuba's human rights abuses)

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:14:00 am »

Isn't Fidel dead yet? I saw on Yahoo where they are saying his son is going to take over and wonders if it will be any different. I only got a glimpse of what you guys are talking about when I watched the movie, The Lost City with Andy Garcia in it. Seems like Andy was trying to get the point across in that movie to what Cuba was like.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2008, 01:11:41 am »

Quote from: matty.the.damned on February 19, 2008, 11:52:31 pm

(Who is not suggesting that Philly has a rosy eyed view of Cuba's human rights abuses)

Oh, not at all. I'm firmly of the social democrat type, along the lines of Iceland or Sweden. A lot of my rant was that the US ran a semi-colonial outpost in Cuba in the early 20th century and that Castro was simply nasty blow back. Reap what you sow, and all that. If only they'd behaved and continued to be subservient like Guatemala, but hey they got uppity and elected Jacobo Guzman so we had to do some covert ops. I detest any moralizing by US politicians about Latin American in light of the numerous filthy things we've done there, most of which US citizens know very little about (though I assume you do... most foreigners do)

And no Queen, Fidel is not dead. And it's not his son running the show it's his brother, Raul.

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2008, 01:41:58 am »

Still, ya gotta love a nation that gave the world this:

MtD

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2008, 01:48:46 am »

Oh, so totally. I'm not down on America culturally.

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:35:05 am »

Damn Fidel ain't dead yet. My bad, I thought it was his son taking over but it's still in the family and I have to wonder why is that? Isn't there anyone else willing to go up against Raul? Or is it like how a kingdom is run and given to the next one in the bloodline? Just asking because I am so not political.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:41:15 am »

Cuba is more like North Korea in that respect -- a family dictatorship. However, I rather doubt it's that extreme and that after Raul's short leadership (he's only 5 years younger than Fidel) power will transfer to someone outside of the family. It's presumed that NK's Kim Jong-il will pass power to his son, Jong-chul.

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:46:26 am »

*Bows to the all knowing Philicia*....I wanna be like you when I grow up...

jack · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2008, 09:55:22 am »

first time I have heard Nixon and Ike as the reason Castro went commie. That must be from Oliver Stones version of history. No matter how you spin it, it was JFK who turned tail and ran leaving operatives and Cuban rebels to die on beach. The attempted invasion and cowardly retreat by JFK did not endear us to Castro. The fact is Castro always wanted to be our enemy. He felt it made him a hero to the masses. Many tinpot dictators love to go after the biggest guy, look at the little sawed off bastard in Iran. They control the press and media in their own countries and spin it to their advantage.

I still think its hilarious when people try and compare the Cuba Med system to ours. I do wonder if Cuba might have a better educational system when I hear US citizens say Cuba has a better health system than US.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:02:34 am »

So Jack, care to explain why Castro flew to NYC and DC once he assumed power and met with Nixon instead of jetting off to Moscow? You can't counter what I said with any facts so you sit there spinning on your largest dildo.

Dachshund · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:07:14 am »

If they would have lifted the embargo, Fidel would fallen years ago. Hell, we have a free trade agreement with Viet Nam. We base our Cuban policy on a few right wing nuts living in Miami. Fidel has outlasted every President in my lifetime thanks to them.

End the embargo and you could have AMG in Havana in no time.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:18:42 am »

Quote from: Dachshund on February 20, 2008, 10:07:14 am

End the embargo and you could have AMG in Havana in no time.

Oh, I'd be in heaven!

aztecan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:31:52 am »

I'm with Doxie on this. For the life of me I can't fathom why that embargo is still in place after all these years.

Nations have a sort of life and progression that must occur in their own time. Cuba has been held back because of two pig-headed governments.

The Soviet Union crumbled under its own weight. We, in the U.S., didn't have anything to do with it.

China has taken an about face and become a consumer society, especially since the British finally gave back Hong Kong. China and India's progress is why oil is such a concern right now.

We have trade agreements with Vietnam and other nations that either leaned toward communism or had headed down that road.

But not Cuba. It just makes no sense. Castro is a disaster for his people, no two ways about it. But, so was Ronald Raygun for the U.S.

I, for one, would love to have AMG in Havana.

HUGS,

Mark

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2008, 11:18:02 am »

Oh, it's all very easy. The Cuban ex-mafioso Batista thugs are the wackos down in Miami. They vote en masse for Republicans to maintain this silly, moronic, useless embargo and Florida has been a swing state forever, so even after the Cold War ended politicians continue to pander to these idiots.

And we ALL pay more for every bag of sugar because of this compared with the rest of the world. Makes us have to use high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener to save money, and that product contributes to increased obesity rates in the US. It's all a bad joke, but hey -- let's blame the Republicans. Oh right, and it doesn't help that we have two nephews of Fidel's in the US Congress constantly agitating for this embago.

Robert · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:23:47 pm »

remember when Castro came to power.

It didnt' mean anything to me...I was only 8 or 9 years old. But i remember watching TV and The Tonight Show was on. (He was the predecessor to Jack Parr who preceded Johnny Carson who went before Jay Leno for all you x-generators here). Steve Allen sat down at the piano and started his own impromptu, Cuban Style Salsa of Batista Flees which was the headline of the NY TIMES when all this came about.

It's funny, the things we remember.

robert

404error · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2008, 04:07:29 pm »

Quote

They control the press and media in their own countries and spin it to their advantage.

Are you suggesting that the U.S. government holds no sway over the media and that they do not spin stories to their own advantage? Wake up.

Personally, I hope for the most part they keep business as usual in Cuba. The lack of American presence is unique, almost UNESCO world heritage site unique. There aren't many places in the Caribbean where you can go on vacation, not to be inundated with heavy set travellers, stars and stripes draped from their ample figures asking everyone to speak English.

northernguy · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:13:19 pm »

I better go while its still unique. Everyone I know who has gone has loved it.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:34:45 pm »

Barbara please... like I can *so* see you with a sunburn.

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Author Topic: Fidel Castro (Read 5225 times)