I'm fast believing that all too many HIV + people actually believe that...

[Denvaux]

we as a result of our common infection, are in fact, a lower form of humanity; that we perhaps got our "come-uppance"  as a result of extreme sexually promiscuity and or hard drug use and careless sharing using tools.  I'm beginning to believe that a large percentage believe that conservative  right wing diatribe that brings about that commonly used term - stigma!
I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO, yet endlessly, I see Hiv+ people speaking the language of stigma- a sort of self stigma;  as they do the do I don't I on this issue.

If it was lung cancer, you'd say it; if it was brain cancer, you'd say it.....  If it matters so much... If it's Aids say it and if you chose not to, there's nothing wrong with that, but stop calling yourself a piece of shit!

[Denvaux]

I would have posted that point on another ongoing thread but BIG brother won't allow it   

[Jim Allen]

Okay..

Look I agree that many people do seem to have self-stigma issues, however people facing self-stigma issues need support particularly in relation to HIV self-stigma &  people who are newly diagnosed.

I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO

Here is a simple fix, if you are sick of it I can help you with that one. Simply don't  read about it. Problem solved.   

Jim

[Denvaux]

So then, how do you know that my direct tact doesn't help someone deal with the issue that they are facing?  I know absolutely that you don't know that someone somewhere  reading my comments didn't or won't gain something from it.  I learned a he'll of a lot from people that avoid suger coating issues, so why would't someone else?  As mum said oft, there are many ways to skin a cat.

[CaveyUK]

we as a result of our common infection, are in fact, a lower form of humanity; that we perhaps got our "come-uppance"  as a result of extreme sexually promiscuity and or hard drug use and careless sharing using tools.  I'm beginning to believe that a large percentage believe that conservative  right wing diatribe that brings about that commonly used term - stigma!
I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO, yet endlessly, I see Hiv+ people speaking the language of stigma- a sort of self stigma;  as they do the do I don't I on this issue.

If it was lung cancer, you'd say it; if it was brain cancer, you'd say it.....  If it matters so much... If it's Aids say it and if you chose not to, there's nothing wrong with that, but stop calling yourself a piece of shit!

Denvaux - you speak for yourself.

HIV carries with it stigma for two reasons. One - it is a sexually transmitted infection. Two - many people are uneducated and have the vision of the virus in the 1980s, and react/behave accordingly.

There are also many types of cancer than men feel difficult about disclosing - such as breast cancer or anal cancer. It's not exclusively HIV, although it is a conundrum that many of us - especially those who live outside metropolitan areas - experience.

Personally speaking, I don't beat myself up unduly about having HIV. I have it, and nothing will change that. It's a done-deal. I'm on treatment. I should live a normal(ish) life. It doesn't define me.

I've disclosed to my partner and best friend. I don't want to disclose to others for various practical reasons. I also don't want others to act any differently towards me than they would do normally. I don't want to cause any undue worry within my family. All the above may change in the future.

If you feel you have some kind of self-hate going on about HIV, thats fine. But please don't speak for us all.

[Denvaux]

I absolutely speak for myself....  That's why I call it my opinion.   I'm very sorry at the same time that you chose to read between the lines and come to a conclusion that is way off the mark (regarding self hate);  sometimes it's best read what was said and see it as it's meant - transference will always bamboozle- that's what it does.

[Jim Allen]

So then, how do you know that my direct tact doesn't help someone deal with the issue that they are facing?  I know absolutely that you don't know that someone somewhere  reading my comments didn't or won't gain something from it.  I learned a he'll of a lot from people that avoid suger coating issues, so why would't someone else?  As mum said oft, there are many ways to skin a cat.

Okay. Ill take your advice and apply it to you, lets see how it works.

Here is a simple fix, stop drinking and if you are sick of reading that someone else has a problem and can't be helpful when they want advice or reassurance and you are sick of people responding to your posts, I can help with you at request with  temporary or permanent ban from the forum. I will do this from a point of kindness if it helps you. 

Let me know.

Jim

[CaveyUK]

clearly there is some sub-text here that I'm not picking up on correctly

[Denvaux]

Okay. Ill take your advice and apply it to you, lets see how it works.

Here is a simple fix, stop drinking and if you are sick of reading that someone else has a problem and can't be helpful when they want advice or reassurance and you are sick of people responding to your posts, I can help with you at request with  temporary or permanent ban from the forum. I will do this from a point of kindness if it helps you. 

Let me know.

Jim

Ah,  stop drinking:  that old chestnut;  nevermind I've not had a drink today (all day), I'm always knocking back the scotch in your opinion......  How moderate!

[Jim Allen]

So I applied your short, blunt style of posting about someone else's issue with no sugar to you and you don't like it ? I am surprised, was it helpful ?

[Denvaux]

So I applied your short, blunt style of posting about someone else's issue with no sugar to you and you don't like it ? I am surprised, was it helpful ?

Someone else's issues?  I suggest you look again at the post and you'll see I spoke of no one individual and nor would I.
And just so you know....  I decide if or when I drink and I haven't had a drink today for your information.

[hiv_rizzy]

Ah,  stop drinking:  that old chestnut;  nevermind I've not had a drink today (all day), I'm always knocking back the scotch in your opinion......  How moderate!

Why are you mostly so aggressive? Sometimes it's better to know when to calm down with all the attitude.

[Jim Allen]

So then, how do you know that my direct tact doesn't help someone deal with the issue that they are facing?  I know absolutely that you don't know that someone somewhere  reading my comments didn't or won't gain something from it.  I learned a he'll of a lot from people that avoid suger coating issues, so why would't someone else?  As mum said oft, there are many ways to skin a cat.

Just tried it did not help.

Someone else's issues?  I suggest you look again at the post and you'll see I spoke of no one individual and nor would I.
And just so you know....  I decide if or when I drink and I haven't had a drink today for your information.

You know exactly what i am talking about. Anyhow its a real shame as there is a true important topic in the first post but you can't deliver it in debatable manner.

Jim

[zach]

clearly there is some sub-text here that I'm not picking up on correctly

There is history here that goes back before you were a member.

Suggest that the newer members step back and let moderators handle this situation.

[Almost2late]

we as a result of our common infection, are in fact, a lower form of humanity; that we perhaps got our "come-uppance"  as a result of extreme sexually promiscuity and or hard drug use and careless sharing using tools.  I'm beginning to believe that a large percentage believe that conservative  right wing diatribe that brings about that commonly used term - stigma!
I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO, yet endlessly, I see Hiv+ people speaking the language of stigma- a sort of self stigma;  as they do the do I don't I on this issue.

If it was lung cancer, you'd say it; if it was brain cancer, you'd say it.....  If it matters so much... If it's Aids say it and if you chose not to, there's nothing wrong with that, but stop calling yourself a piece of shit!

I agree, that stigma issue doesn't deserve the energy given to it and not disclosing is your own personal business and no body's business..

It helps to forget the aids and just take the meds.

[RP61181]

we as a result of our common infection, are in fact, a lower form of humanity; that we perhaps got our "come-uppance"  as a result of extreme sexually promiscuity and or hard drug use and careless sharing using tools.  I'm beginning to believe that a large percentage believe that conservative  right wing diatribe that brings about that commonly used term - stigma!
I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO, yet endlessly, I see Hiv+ people speaking the language of stigma- a sort of self stigma;  as they do the do I don't I on this issue.

If it was lung cancer, you'd say it; if it was brain cancer, you'd say it.....  If it matters so much... If it's Aids say it and if you chose not to, there's nothing wrong with that, but stop calling yourself a piece of shit!

Hmmm....interesting take.  I however was born positive.  I did nothing to deserve a "come-uppance" and I don't believe ANYONE deserves this illness regardless of what they have done.  Maybe you live in an area where HIV/AIDS isn't a big deal.  I live in a small town where there is in fact still a stigma.  People still believe stuff from the 80's.  I have told people about my illness and have received very hurtful responses, so no I do not self stigmatizing.  Finally, I haven't seen anyone regard themselves as a "piece of shit". 

[bocker3]

we as a result of our common infection, are in fact, a lower form of humanity; that we perhaps got our "come-uppance"  as a result of extreme sexually promiscuity and or hard drug use and careless sharing using tools.  I'm beginning to believe that a large percentage believe that conservative  right wing diatribe that brings about that commonly used term - stigma!
I'm somewhat sick of reading about this disclosure issue; the issue is so easy IMO, yet endlessly, I see Hiv+ people speaking the language of stigma- a sort of self stigma;  as they do the do I don't I on this issue.

If it was lung cancer, you'd say it; if it was brain cancer, you'd say it.....  If it matters so much... If it's Aids say it and if you chose not to, there's nothing wrong with that, but stop calling yourself a piece of shit!

I'm confused by you -- I recall your normal response to disclosure is "it's no one's business -- except for health care professionals and sexual partners".  Now you wax on about how "easy" it is (in your opinion, of course) -- yet this appears to be a NEW opinion.  What brought on this epiphany??  Enquiring minds want to know?

BTW -- if you are sick of reading disclosure threads, you are in for a rough ride on this forum.  People come and go and what is "old news" for some of us is brand spanking new for others.

For the record - I've not ever received a bad reaction from disclosure (well, some initial "disappointment" from my daughter when she put together the meaning of my being positive and my husband not....  but she got past that quickly).  Also -- I certainly don't believe pozzies are anything other than human.  HIV is a virus, just like a cold virus -- it doesn't judge who it infects, and neither do I.

Mike

[Denvaux]

I agree, that stigma issue doesn't deserve the energy given to it and not disclosing is your own personal business and no body's business..

It helps to forget the aids and just take the meds.

Almost2late:       I thought it was almost too late for me on this board as nobody saw the context of that initial post and instead read too much in to it;  then along you come - you read it in context, it makes sense to you and you sum it up correctly.    I've got to big you up for that!   

[Denvaux]

Hmmm....interesting take.  I however was born positive.  I did nothing to deserve a "come-uppance" and I don't believe ANYONE deserves this illness regardless of what they have done.  Maybe you live in an area where HIV/AIDS isn't a big deal.  I live in a small town where there is in fact still a stigma.  People still believe stuff from the 80's.  I have told people about my illness and have received very hurtful responses, so no I do not self stigmatizing.  Finally, I haven't seen anyone regard themselves as a "piece of shit".

The title of the thread here is actually the beginning of the initial post......  if you read it that way you see that I am not in anyway suggesting that anyone anywhere deserved a " "comeuppance", be you born HIV + or whether like me you acquired it in life.  And no,  HIV is not easy in London - probably easier but we make it harder with negative thinking
and self stigma.

[Denvaux]

I'm confused by you -- I recall your normal response to disclosure is "it's no one's business -- except for health care professionals and sexual partners".  Now you wax on about how "easy" it is (in your opinion, of course) -- yet this appears to be a NEW opinion.  What brought on this epiphany??  Enquiring minds want to know?

BTW -- if you are sick of reading disclosure threads, you are in for a rough ride on this forum.  People come and go and what is "old news" for some of us is brand spanking new for others.


Mike

There's no reason for confusion Bocker3,  as my view on the disclosure issue has not altered from that you stated of me above.  Yes I agree, people come and people go; and what's old news for some is new news for others so the issue won't go away.  I've no problem with the subject airing - perhaps I worded it wrong?   But as seen  with Almost2late: some people do get it....   hopefully someone  somewhere struggling will get it too.

[Jim Allen]

Denvaux.

Look at the end of the day somewhere lost in the noise you have a point however the topic simply might not be an issue for you but it can be for other people. Just like drinking seems to be part of your issue and its not for others.
Some people here do face horrendous stigma, particularly people living in countries where the population has poor general knowledge on the subject, and yes some do face a level of self sigma however posting that you are somehow somewhat sick about reading about it is just unwelcoming and discourages people particularly newly diagnosed people from posting about issues so they can vent and also gain support.

If you don't want to read about it simply don't, no need to post about it certainly not in the way you did

I would have posted that point on another ongoing thread but BIG brother won't allow it   

So you decided instead continue the "flamebait" here after being told and warned not to anymore.

Jim

[Wade]

I would have posted that point on another ongoing thread but BIG brother won't allow it   

So this thread was started ?
Sorry but I dont get it ....it has done nothing to help the OP with his concerns and need of support on his disclosure issues from his original thread.
In all fairness I am locking this thread because Denvaux will not be here to respond.