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Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: J.R.E. on February 16, 2010, 08:15:24 pm

Title: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: J.R.E. on February 16, 2010, 08:15:24 pm
BBC host admits to mercy killing :


Just caught this on Cnn : (video of admission at bottom)

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/bbc-host-admits-killing-lover/


Ray
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Basquo on February 16, 2010, 09:37:56 pm
Difficult as it was to read the story, the video was even worse. As in moving, and...shit, a veterinarian could slip something into an IV that would end it without a trace, but this shows true love. Thank God that fewer people are put in this position today, and if I were on an American jury I would make sure that every other angry man knew exactly what the situation was.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: tednlou2 on February 17, 2010, 12:44:11 am
I saw this on MSNBC today.  They said he didn't say when this took place.  This probably happens more than we think.  Since his partner was suppose to be terminally ill, I'm sure they didn't do an autopsy. 
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 17, 2010, 01:21:48 am
"At the moment all we have is Ray's word there was a pact and it wasn't clear from his description whether his lover even wanted to be killed or asked to be," Dr. Peter Saunders said.
frankly I disagree with some of the words in this piece. I would suggest that the words "murder" and "kill" are the incorrect words to use. how can you "kill" someone who shortly will die of other causes? It's not like a person with a terminal (hello? "terminal") illness at that point or even someone at 98 is going to miraculously recover and live another 5 yrs or even 1 yr with no pains or problems.

The experience of going to the vet for, and even assisting several times in, the euthanasia of 7 cocker spaniels was what gave me the strength, courage and knowledge to halt medical procedures and take two partners back home, with hospice care, to pass away. Sometimes you just can't stop Death no matter how hard you try or how much you want to. It's the consequence of living.

Thank God that fewer people are put in this position today
well not as many from AIDS deaths nowadays; but hundreds of people are in this very same postion everyday. literally everyone that takes a loved one home from a hospital - with hospice care - has already resigned themselves to the slow exaggerated death of their loved one - unlike the quick painless passing away by euthanasia of a pet. Every one of those caregivers is left within the confines of their own homes to struggle with the issues of how much meds to give their loved one to ease the pain while their loved one slowly and inevitably dies of starvation and dehydration. It's very traumatic for the dying person and the caregiver. Many of those dying people remain conscious until the bitter end. Often they beg for someone to hasten the inevitable end instead of "forcing" them to endure such suffering.

It's a shame that all those religious folk have been so scared of going to heaven, that they've put this stigma upon death. Now we can not only not rationally discuss it (it wasn't clear from his description whether his lover even wanted to be killed. Damn Dr Peter! The dude was almost dead of AIDS at that point anyway, how could he be "killed"?) nor rationally do anything about it (remember poor Dr. Kevorkian?)

If only those crazy people at the town hall meetings in America this past summer had realized that their notion of a "death panel" was nothing more than discussing with Granny whether she might want to go peacefully with some measure of dignity instead of wasting away for 3 months in a filthy nursing home before finally dying after days of wheezy, painful breathing while unconscious.

As you can see this is a subject that touches close to me. I struggled with issues that no one should have to face in such a troubled time as losing one's partner. I would say that life and death was in my hand, but that isn't true at all. At that time, someone's life is already gone and the question of "killing" shouldn't even enter the picture. the only questions there should be are how much a human should have to suffer and what date to put on the headstone.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Cliff on February 17, 2010, 03:17:02 am
He came across as a bit mental during a BBC interview.  Or maybe eccentric.  A thin line.

Why talk about something so caring and then turn insensitive by calling the guy his bit on the side?  Why do it without the consent of the guy's family or even his friends?  There were probably good reasons but it does beg the question.  I honestly don't know how I would feel if my sister's fuck buddy suffocated her without me or my folks having a say.

And why smother him?  Isn't there a more humane way of doing such things?

And I couldn't tell from his interview whether he actually had expressed consent to kill his partner, er bit on the side.  The consent sounded a bit vague and informal, but it was a long, long time ago.

He wraps up by saying it was no body's business and a private act.  True; except he made it public and now the police must act.

It was all a bit too weird for us.  The law needs to be changed, just not sure this is gonna do it.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Hellraiser on February 17, 2010, 05:14:37 am
Why do it without the consent of the guy's family or even his friends?  There were probably good reasons but it does beg the question.  I honestly don't know how I would feel if my sister's fuck buddy suffocated her without me or my folks having a say.

Because involving the family means other people have to deal with their fear of death, despite the inevitable looming.  In the US for sure people's families cling to life a lot longer than they themselves wish to continue.  I agree in ethic with the idea of mercy killing, but nobody wants to see their son/brother/father die and so then they make them suffer with the disease.

This guy never should have said anything though, especially not on public television.  I'm sure in his mind he thought it was so long ago that it didn't matter, but I can only imagine how bad this is going to get for him.  I also agree that suffocation is not exactly the most humane way to go about it, but if he wasn't a medical professional I mean what are your options in this department?

It's a sad story, but then again so was absolutely every case that Kevorkian was dealing with (despite what the family members of some of the people involved have said) and he still went to prison.

I hope this encourages everyone to write a living will and express your wishes very clearly about if something were to happen to you what you would want done.  It takes an extreme burden off of your friends, family, and loved ones.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 17, 2010, 08:59:19 am
I'm all for euthanasia but he should have kept his mouth shut.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Grasshopper on February 17, 2010, 10:11:23 am
With a pillow...wow.. that took a lot of balls.  I can understand his need to vent and go public. Probably it haunts him in some way or another, the same way my experience with the subject does with me...even after almost 17 years.

You can have a living will drawn, but it's up to the professionals to act upon, and I've seen many times how they backedout at the last minute, leaving everyone bearing witness to nature's course.



Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Grasshopper on February 17, 2010, 11:49:56 am
Seems he got arrested.....sad....probably should have kept his mouth shut.

(thanks heavens my deceased ex was cremated)

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Alain on February 17, 2010, 11:55:34 am
I'm all for euthanasia but he should have kept his mouth shut.

Agreed.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: gummage on February 17, 2010, 01:26:40 pm
Personally I believe that this man should be taken to court, convicted and spend a long sentence in prison. The reason I believe this is that there was no verbal or written request from the patient involved to his family saying that this 'death' was requested - only the BBC presenters word. Sorry but there is no evidence of what he says as being true. This man was not 'helped' to die - but killed with intent. Surely the man invoilved could have taken his lown ife whilst in better health, so why wait until he was virtually dead ? Also the presenter requested time alone with the patient and therefore it was not a spontaneous act - MURDER is still murder.
I am sure others will disagree, but we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 17, 2010, 02:34:44 pm
I've met Ray Gosling many times in when he worked in Manchester years ago and he's always liked the sound of his own voice. I have serious doubts any of this is true, the story has changed several times and other people who know him have voiced similar concerns http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1251603/Is-BBC-film-maker-Ray-Goslings-story-seems.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1251603/Is-BBC-film-maker-Ray-Goslings-story-seems.html).

I also don't really understand his insistence that his friend was dying of AIDS and in pain, when nobody has ever actually died of AIDS (you generally die from pneumonia).  I have been hospitalised with full blown AIDS (CD4 80 VL Millions) + Pneumocystis jiroveci (carinii) pneumonia and whilst being distressing it isn't painful.

I'm pretty certain he's lying for a bit of attention, none of it really makes any sense?
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: skeebo1969 on February 17, 2010, 03:03:30 pm


  I bet the doctor that was at the hospital was shitting his pants when he saw this aired.  I am all for euthanasia with some kind of legal documentation saying the party doesn't mind being pillowed to death!
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 17, 2010, 03:34:12 pm
I also don't really understand his insistence that his friend was dying of AIDS and in pain, when nobody has ever actually died of AIDS (you generally die from pneumonia).  I have been hospitalised with full blown AIDS (CD4 80 VL Millions) + Pneumocystis jiroveci (carinii) pneumonia and whilst being distressing it isn't painful.
splitting hairs there a little bit, aren't you? ??? (Or are you a denialist? we've had quite a bit of them around lately. ::) ) Even though it may be PCP or another disease that actually kills you, AIDS is usually listed as a subsidiary cause on the death certificate since it's the HIV that destroyed your immune system enough for the other disease to have such a drastic effect. I have two death certificates in my possesion from my late partners where AIDS is listed as a cause of death. I don't have the death certificates from several dozens of friends who have died from "AIDS". I myself nearly died from PCP in 96 and thought it was quite painful and distressing. It was just as painful and distressing two yrs later when "regular" pneumonia nearly killed me (as it does for thousands a people a year)

This man was not 'helped' to die - but killed with intent.
most nations do not allow any legal way to be "helped to die" even when you are terminally ill and the grave is only days away. You are only allowed to "suffer" slowly until your body finally gives up. A trip to most any nursing home today will turn up hundreds of examples of the elderly suffering this way, who will be interred by the middle of next week. That's just how life is - everyone dies. Unfortunately, death, the way it's handled without euthanasia, is usually fairly nasty and not at all like falling asleep and never waking up.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 17, 2010, 04:14:05 pm
You could always move to Oregon.

http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/index.shtml

On October 27, 1997 Oregon enacted the Death with Dignity Act which allows terminally-ill Oregonians to end their lives through the voluntary self-administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a physician for that purpose.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 17, 2010, 04:25:14 pm
splitting hairs there a little bit, aren't you? ??? (Or are you a denialist? we've had quite a bit of them around lately. ::) ) Even though it may be PCP or another disease that actually kills you, AIDS is usually listed as a subsidiary cause on the death certificate since it's the HIV that destroyed your immune system enough for the other disease to have such a drastic effect. I have two death certificates in my possesion from my late partners where AIDS is listed as a cause of death. I don't have the death certificates from several dozens of friends who have died from "AIDS". I myself nearly died from PCP in 96 and thought it was quite painful and distressing. It was just as painful and distressing two yrs later when "regular" pneumonia nearly killed me (as it does for thousands a people a year)
most nations do not allow any legal way to be "helped to die" even when you are terminally ill and the grave is only days away. You are only allowed to "suffer" slowly until your body finally gives up. A trip to most any nursing home today will turn up hundreds of examples of the elderly suffering this way, who will be interred by the middle of next week. That's just how life is - everyone dies. Unfortunately, death, the way it's handled without euthanasia, is usually fairly nasty and not at all like falling asleep and never waking up.

Not a denialist in any way, I just didn't have any pain from PCP, the rigors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chills) were pretty frightening and the hopeless nurse who made 30 attempts to get an arterial blood gas sample from my wrist really hurt, but as soon as i was put on IV Septrin/Bactrim + Oyxgen and Prednisalone I started to recover pretty rapidly (still stuck in hospital for eight days though).
It was actually my HIV consultant that said nobody had ever died of HIV/AIDS, but i suppose that's only in the same way you don't die of alcoholism but sclerosis of the liver instead.
Back to my original point though Ray is a real Walter Mitty, I doubt it ever happened.  
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 17, 2010, 05:01:39 pm
You could always move to Oregon.
or the state of Washington!
http://www.deathwithdignity.org/2008/11/04/washington-voters-approve-death-dignity-act/

but I just moved back down south and those states are too far north for me. ;) Although being here in the bible belt, you know it'll be long after I'm gone that those kinds of laws are on the books here. ::)

Not a denialist in any way,
It was actually my HIV consultant that said nobody had ever died of HIV/AIDS

an arterial blood gas sample from my wrist
glad to hear that! It was just the way you said that no one has died from AIDS. That on it's face is a pretty odd sounding statement when it is only because of having the HIV virus (reaching the stage of being defined as AIDS) that thousands and thousands have died in the last three decades.  ;)

an arterial blood gas sample from my wrist
Ouch! I remember those sticks well. ;) Glad to hear that you were so much luckier than many and recovered, much less recovered so well. ;D
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: gummage on February 17, 2010, 05:21:52 pm
I too was in the hospital with PCP (cd4 of 20, viral load off the scale) and I have to admit that whilst the experience was not pleasant, I was not in any pain with any illness. (actually it was quite funny at first as they isolated me thinking I had bird flu !!!). I have never seen or heard of anyone dying painfully of AIDS - other related conditions probably.
The gut commited murder and should go to prison OR elaborate on his story
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 17, 2010, 07:51:02 pm
Kinda the point I was trying to make really, the only fatal illness with any direct relation to AIDS is PCP, which from my experience isn't painful (I know that Kaposi's sarcoma can be painful but the pain was generally controlled well by palliative medicine and now the disease is now controlled well with HAART}.

The guy I think I got HIV from (pretty much has to be him, I've had such a boring sex life that I've never had crabs or any STD) died of liver cancer a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure it wasn't  related to his HIV. He didn't die a totally painless death but his doctors managed it well and he never seemed to be in any significant pain. If I talk about him to his friends now it's just accepted that he died from cancer, he just happened to be HIV+.

I know other conditions you suffer from are often listed on a death certificate but the primary cause of your demise will be listed first (If a diabetic got run over by a bus it would be listed as Auto-mobile Accident and the diabetes would be noted).

I also have genetic Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_cardiomyopathy) It would be bizarre to list HIV as a cause of death if I go to bed tonight and don't wake up (as my Dad did) as a complicating factor in my death.

If Ray did smother somebody with PCP then he should be gaoled for it. To be honest though I think It's all a load of bollocks. Ray wasn't a catch even in the 1980's when this is purported to have happened and his then boyfriend Bryn was always with him and would have killed him if he'd been shagging about  ;)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 17, 2010, 10:31:24 pm
the only fatal illness with any direct relation to AIDS is PCP

Sorry, that is not correct. For example, I had a friend die of cryptosporidiosis. I'm sure there are other AIDS related deaths, suicide for instance.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 17, 2010, 10:44:34 pm
Sorry, that is not correct. For example, I had a friend die of cryptosporidiosis. I'm sure there are other AIDS related deaths, suicide for instance.
Jim (my second later partner) died of non-hodgkins lymphoma (an hiv-related version of cancer) not two yrs ago in may 08 (he was only just showing symptoms this month 2 yrs ago and died 69 days after entering the hospital on mar 1).

don't forget toxoplasmosis or CMV either (http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-05-03-03)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Matty the Damned on February 17, 2010, 11:28:51 pm
Progressive Multifocal Leukoencephalopathy will fuck you up too.

MtD
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: edfu on February 18, 2010, 02:19:55 am
This is a matter of correct scientific/medical semantics and a great deal of political correctness.  It is true that HIV or AIDS does not kill the human being directly; HIV kills only CD4 cells, thereby destroying the person's immunity, but by itself, destroying immunity does not cause the death.  The death is caused by an opportunistic infection that the person's destroyed immunity cannot control.

In the early days of the epidemic it became standard usage (except, perhaps, in official coroners' reports, etc.) to give the cause of death, when it was revealed at all, as "AIDS-related complications."  It was believed that this usage more accurately and truthfully reflected the reality.  These "complications" were all of the various opportunistic infections that a person with a normally functioning immune system could and would fight off and were often, in the 1980s, before HIV testing, the first sign of HIV infection.  Thus, death from advanced cryptosporidiosis and toxoplasmosis and PCP was generally not given as the specific cause; rather, it was "AIDS-related complications."

Today, after the advent of testing and HAART, these "classic" OI's are far less likely to be instrumental in causing death.  Instead, as we all know, more deaths are resulting from cancers (liver, lung, anal) and other malignancies and lymphomas.  Thus, today, it has become standard usage to give the cancer or whatever as the cause of death, obviating the necessity of even mentioning AIDS or HIV.  In these cases it is perhaps accurate to give the malignancy as the specific cause of death (the connection to HIV being assumed to be conjecture). 
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Matty the Damned on February 18, 2010, 02:31:48 am
and a great deal of political correctness. 

Oy.  ::)

MtD
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Moffie65 on February 18, 2010, 10:47:22 am
I've met Ray Gosling many times in when he worked in Manchester years ago and he's always liked the sound of his own voice. .............................  I have been hospitalised with full blown AIDS (CD4 80 VL Millions) + Pneumocystis jiroveci (carinii) pneumonia and whilst being distressing it isn't painful.

I don't know where you came from, or who you are, but it seems that the accuser in this post is you, and it also seems you like the looks of your own words on a screen.  Or don't acuse if you are guilty of the same thing.

 I've had PCP twice, and you are an outright liar to claim that it isn't painful, or to imply that it is a walk in the park.  Sorry dude, you're out of line on an HIV/AIDS support site, and I take all your posts as outright, Texas sized BULLSHIT!
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: BT65 on February 18, 2010, 05:21:19 pm
I've had such a boring sex life that I've never had crabs or any STD)

You just skipped those and went right for the big one, aye?
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: skeebo1969 on February 18, 2010, 06:03:24 pm
You just skipped those and went right for the big one, aye?

LMAO I did the same thing Betty, but with a side order of CMV.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Miss Philicia on February 18, 2010, 08:20:10 pm
I have never seen or heard of anyone dying painfully of AIDS

This is either a sad joke or you've not been around the block enough times.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Matty the Damned on February 18, 2010, 09:02:38 pm
This is either a sad joke or you've not been around the block enough times.

Doublepluss agreement here, Miss P.

Let us hope that the first ghastly AIDS death gummage experiences is not his own.

MtD

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 19, 2010, 12:40:34 pm
I don't know where you came from, or who you are, but it seems that the accuser in this post is you, and it also seems you like the looks of your own words on a screen.  Or don't acuse if you are guilty of the same thing.

 I've had PCP twice, and you are an outright liar to claim that it isn't painful, or to imply that it is a walk in the park.  Sorry dude, you're out of line on an HIV/AIDS support site, and I take all your posts as outright, Texas sized BULLSHIT!

All I can recount are my own experiences. I was rushed to hospital by ambulance unable to breathe with an oxygen saturation of 64%  having regular attacks of the rigors. I was admitted to the intensive care ward given a broad spectrum of IV antibiotics, but continued to have low oxygen saturation and still suffering great difficulty breathing.

The next day I was seen by a chest consultant who had examined the x-ray taken the previous night who said that he suspected it was PCP (at this time I wasn't even aware I was HIV+, never mind that it was full blown AIDS), I was then given an MRI scan and had my sputum tested. This confirmed the PCP diagnosis and as I have previously said I was treated with IV Septrin/Bactrim, Predisalone and kept on oxygen. I was discharged after eight days but had to keep taking eight Septrin Forte a day for two months. I was honestly never in any pain (or given any painkillers)

After two years of treatment on Atripla my VL is undetectable and CD4 is just over 400, my HIV consultant insists I still take one Septrin Forte daily and has said that I will remain on them for the foreseeable future (which I know is unusual having read the advice given by the experts on The Body). I presume he just doesn't want me to have a recurrence.

It's not like I have a high pain threshold either, I was in excruciating pain from the high dose Statins I was given to counter act the high cholesterol I got from Atripla and had to switch to 20mg Atorvastatin plus 10mg Ezetimibe (Ezetrol).

I'm very sorry that your episodes of PCP were so painful and different to my one episode (and apparently gummage's if you read back a few posts). I suppose an illnesses can effect people in very different ways or did your treatment differ from mine somehow?

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Ann on February 19, 2010, 06:23:56 pm

All I can recount are my own experiences. I was rushed to hospital by ambulance unable to breathe with an oxygen saturation of 64%  having regular attacks of the rigors. I was admitted to the intensive care ward given a broad spectrum of IV antibiotics, but continued to have low oxygen saturation and still suffering great difficulty breathing.


Wow! They should do a study on you. Everyone I've ever known who couldn't breathe - including myself - experienced a great deal of pain when they COULD NOT BREATHE. You must be something special, hence why I suggested a study.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 19, 2010, 08:18:41 pm
I too was in the hospital with PCP (cd4 of 20, viral load off the scale) and I have to admit that whilst the experience was not pleasant, I was not in any pain with any illness. (actually it was quite funny at first as they isolated me thinking I had bird flu !!!). I have never seen or heard of anyone dying painfully of AIDS - other related conditions probably.

This account by gummage seems to tally with mine, whilst I understand that your experience is different to mine and gummage's, I do not dispute that for you it was painful. It could be caused by different medication regimens? I was given 8000mg of Septrin/Bactrin + eight Prednisolone  (steroids) a day for twelve weeks. I do not know if the treatment is the same where you live?

It could also be derived by your pain versus discomfort threshold? For me PCP was uncomfortable and distressing but not painful (or maybe it's the semantics between distress and pain?, I'd assume from the grammar that gummage is also from the UK?).
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 19, 2010, 08:50:44 pm
You just skipped those and went right for the big one, aye?

My HIV consultant said something very similar when I first saw him  ;D I'm just really unlucky!

My last word on this after the abuse is that I've suffered is that HIV is only a Chronic Condition. if treated properly these days, not a death sentence. If your experience differs from mine get on with your life
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Matty the Damned on February 19, 2010, 09:34:47 pm
My last word on this after the abuse is that I've suffered is that HIV is only a Chronic Condition. if treated properly these days, not a death sentence. If your experience differs from mine get on with your life

I suspect that the members of this forum who died from AIDS in the last few years would have disagreed with you.

If they weren't dead that is.

MtD
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 20, 2010, 03:50:49 am
I think we've addressed this one already, nobody has ever died of AIDS or HIV.

They may have died of AIDS-related conditions, but unless the shock of diagnosis killed them it would not be the primary cause of death (even then it would probably be a heart attack).

Out of the four recent bereavements I've experienced none of them had HIV, in fact all of my friends with HIV seem to be in much better health than those who aren't since the advent of HAART because of the extra monitoring they receive.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: BT65 on February 20, 2010, 07:32:23 am
I think we've addressed this one already, nobody has ever died of AIDS or HIV.

They may have died of AIDS-related conditions, but unless the shock of diagnosis killed them it would not be the primary cause of death (even then it would probably be a heart attack).

Out of the four recent bereavements I've experienced none of them had HIV, in fact all of my friends with HIV seem to be in much better health than those who aren't since the advent of HAART because of the extra monitoring they receive.

Of all the people I've known who had Aids and passed, every single death could be contributed to having Aids.   If all your friends with Aids are healthier than people you know without Aids, then bully for you.  As a long term survivor, diagnosed with HIV in 1989, Aids in 1994, I can tell you I've had plenty of health trouble because of this damn virus.  And some of the problems cannot be reversed i.e. neuropathy, lipoatrophy, a bone disease called avascular necrosis that can be contributed to long-term infection, early onset of osteoporosis etc.   While being HIV+ may be a walk in the park for you, don't even think about speaking for everyone also having HIV.  Your experience is not my experience.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: komnaes on February 20, 2010, 08:43:07 am
They may have died of AIDS-related conditions, .. it would not be the primary cause of death.

So next time someone killed himself by jumping off a building, it should not be reported as a suicide but a variety of actual primary causes like skull fracture, internal bleeding, etc?
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Grasshopper on February 20, 2010, 11:30:13 am
I think we've addressed this one already, nobody has ever died of AIDS or HIV.

They may have died of AIDS-related conditions, but unless the shock of diagnosis killed them it would not be the primary cause of death (even then it would probably be a heart attack).

Out of the four recent bereavements I've experienced none of them had HIV, in fact all of my friends with HIV seem to be in much better health than those who aren't since the advent of HAART because of the extra monitoring they receive.

This is what the folks behind aidsmeds.com say:

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/WhatIsAIDS_4994.shtml

"You have heard it said that someone "died of AIDS." This is not entirely accurate, since it is the opportunistic infections that cause death.AIDS is the condition that lets the OIs take hold."
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Hellraiser on February 20, 2010, 11:38:02 am
I always thought they put....

Primary Infection: HIV/AIDS

Secondary Infection:  Whatever actually killed them.

The Aids is what allowed the second thing to become lethal.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: RapidRod on February 20, 2010, 11:50:08 am
My friends death certificate, in cause of death it states "AIDS related illnesses" and lists the OI. It doesn't say they died of AIDS as Andy indicated.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 20, 2010, 04:11:06 pm
So next time someone killed himself by jumping off a building, it should not be reported as a suicide but a variety of actual primary causes like skull fracture, internal bleeding, etc?

I think you are confusing "Manner Of Death" (i.e. Suicide, Murder, Death By Misadventure) with "Cause Of Death", somebody who leaps from a tall building would generally have a Post Mortem and the injury's which caused the death would be listed.

To list AIDS as the Primary Cause Of Death would be akin to listing Diabetes, this should never happen. The primary cause of death for diabetics is CVD (cardiovascular disease), which is always put on the death certificate. 
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: bocker3 on February 20, 2010, 08:38:22 pm
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a sudden increase in "New" members who come in here with no other desire than to argue (minutiae or otherwise) with the longer term members?

I'll never understand why someone would wish to join a support group and then instantly start up with arguments.  Seems a bit hopeless to me.

My add to this -- while it may be technically true that PCP is what may kill -- without the HIV, there would be no PCP, so how your logic can leap to "no one has ever died of AIDS or HIV" is hard to grasp.
No HIV -- no PCP -- no death.  Guess what -- it STARTS with the HIV, trace the causal route back to the beginning and what do you see -- oh, right -- HIV.

Mike
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: mecch on February 20, 2010, 09:22:01 pm
Sometimes new members are opinionated as a way to make some space for themselves in the community. 
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Miss Philicia on February 20, 2010, 09:37:00 pm
I just assume it means they were raised in a barn.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: griezzel on February 20, 2010, 10:33:12 pm
So next time someone killed himself by jumping off a building, it should not be reported as a suicide but a variety of actual primary causes like skull fracture, internal bleeding, etc?
I've heard it said it's not the fall (or jump) that kills you but the sudden stop at the bottom.
 ;)

Interesting thread that has gone astray a bit from the topic, which is one I have much interest in. I sort of expected (or hoped) to find a forum on the topic (death with dignity) rather than the occasional stray thread. Having just arrived here I have quite a bit of reading ahead of me.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 21, 2010, 08:55:52 am
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a sudden increase in "New" members who come in here with no other desire than to argue (minutiae or otherwise) with the longer term members?

I'll never understand why someone would wish to join a support group and then instantly start up with arguments.  Seems a bit hopeless to me.

My add to this -- while it may be technically true that PCP is what may kill -- without the HIV, there would be no PCP, so how your logic can leap to "no one has ever died of AIDS or HIV" is hard to grasp.
No HIV -- no PCP -- no death.  Guess what -- it STARTS with the HIV, trace the causal route back to the beginning and what do you see -- oh, right -- HIV.

Mike

People having Chemotherapy also develop PCP, your argument would lead the cause of death to be listed as Chemotherapy (no chemo = no PCP) which I'm pretty certain wouldn't happen.

I'm aware many people with AIDS died of PCP in the early days (needlessly as Septrin/Bactrim and Prednisalone have been around since the 1960's, but nobody knew that was what worked?), but the illness isn't unique to people with AIDS.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: bocker3 on February 21, 2010, 11:06:57 am
People having Chemotherapy also develop PCP, your argument would lead the cause of death to be listed as Chemotherapy (no chemo = no PCP) which I'm pretty certain wouldn't happen.

Actually, I'd say that the cancer which resulted in the need for the Chemotherapy would be the culprit -- not the Chemo itself.  Again -- no cancer, no chemo, no PCP, no death.

Mike
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 21, 2010, 12:12:19 pm
quite simply Andy, untreated HIV leads to AIDS leads to death nearly 100% of the time.
(as it was in 1985 and even so today, untreated HIV is still the terminal disease it always has been, and leads to death within approx 18 months of an AIDS diagnosis)

Try to rationalize the relationship away by whatever means you want to ease your own fears of having HIV; but there are thousands and thousands of people (especially close to my heart, a huge part of the generation of 40-60 yr old gay men in America) who are gone, dead, because they had AIDS. Without being infected with HIV which developed into AIDS, they would still be here today. All those people died of specific illnesses, but the general cause was still AIDS.

They may have died of AIDS-related conditions,
You simply cannot say that people don't die from AIDS; but "AIDS-related conditions". That's just silly semantics trying to deny the obvious correlation inherent in the disease and the deaths.

It's seem especially wrong to say that people don't die from AIDS on an HIV/AIDS support website, where many of the members have lost those near and dear to them who had AIDS. It makes you sound like a denialist or like you don't understand how A leads to B leads to death.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 21, 2010, 12:13:37 pm
I sort of expected (or hoped) to find a forum on the topic (death with dignity) rather than the occasional stray thread.
I had hoped that would be the topic too. Stick around though. ;) Maybe after the discussion concludes that people do indeed die from AIDS  ::) we can discuss what needs to be/should be done when someone is terminally ill and in the last days of life - let them suffer till their final breath or determine a sane way to allow them to depart with some dignity.

I plan to not go to a hospital at the last (why? it's not like they'll be able to save me at the last. ::) just like when the doctor said that they was nothing to be done for Gosling's partner) but find some iceberg to float away on.  :D

by the way, I was discussing this with another LTS friend of mine (who had himself been a nurse in a hospital) and he made an interesing remark. Don't you find it interesting that when this incident happened the hospital or doctor didn't report it as a murder? And no family demanded an investigation? Obviously the man was so close to death that actual medical personnel and family didn't suspect anything like foul play. My friend thinks if charges should be filed, the hospital should take up the defense by declaring that such an incident/security breach surely did not happen as it would not be possible to "murder" one of their patients.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Hellraiser on February 21, 2010, 12:14:13 pm
So is there an update on this story?  He's in jail yeah?
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: J.R.E. on February 21, 2010, 05:25:43 pm
So is there an update on this story?  He's in jail yeah?

Apparently, they arrested him:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/17/ray-gosling-arrested-killing-of-lover-aids


Ray
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Miss Philicia on February 21, 2010, 05:44:01 pm
Every time I click on this thread I think of The Notebook.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 21, 2010, 05:46:56 pm
Every time I click on this thread I think of The Notebook.
(http://ratonland.org/img/articles/bunny-pancake.gif)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: edfu on February 21, 2010, 06:24:36 pm
Gosling was released on bail last Thursday:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Ray-Gosling-Released-On-Bail-After-Being-Quizzed-On-Suspicion-Of-Murdering-A-Former-Lover/Article/201002315552283 (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Ray-Gosling-Released-On-Bail-After-Being-Quizzed-On-Suspicion-Of-Murdering-A-Former-Lover/Article/201002315552283)

Today his autobiography, apparently in manuscript form, with the working title "Bedroom Olympics,"   ::) was seized by police from his residence:

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/homenews/Ray-Gosling-s-autobiography-seized-police/article-1852456-detail/article.html (http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/homenews/Ray-Gosling-s-autobiography-seized-police/article-1852456-detail/article.html)



Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 21, 2010, 06:41:39 pm
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Ray-Gosling-Released-On-Bail-After-Being-Quizzed-On-Suspicion-Of-Murdering-A-Former-Lover/Article/201002315552283 (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Ray-Gosling-Released-On-Bail-After-Being-Quizzed-On-Suspicion-Of-Murdering-A-Former-Lover/Article/201002315552283)
thanks for those links. there were a lot more vid clips listed at the bottom of that page.

the "case" is even more interesting since he hasn't actually revealed a name or time-frame for when this allegedly took place. No hospital obviously reported a murder or suspcious death relating to him being there, so unless the police can figure out who his "bit on the side" was back "then" (whenever then was) there might not even be a case to persue. I hope the guy wasn't just looking for another 15 mins of fame by making up a story and wasting everyone's time.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: MarkB on February 23, 2010, 07:02:55 pm
It may be no coincidence that there is a major debate going on in the UK at the moment around the issue of assisted suicide, particularly following the author Terry Pratchett's recent Dimbleby lecture "Shaking Hands With Death".
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 23, 2010, 07:17:50 pm
thanks for those links. there were a lot more vid clips listed at the bottom of that page.

the "case" is even more interesting since he hasn't actually revealed a name or time-frame for when this allegedly took place. No hospital obviously reported a murder or suspcious death relating to him being there, so unless the police can figure out who his "bit on the side" was back "then" (whenever then was) there might not even be a case to persue. I hope the guy wasn't just looking for another 15 mins of fame by making up a story and wasting everyone's time.

Which I think is what I said he was doing back on page one, If you can get access to http://www.thebox.bz/browse.php?incldead=0&search=Ray+Gosling&nonboolean=1 (http://www.thebox.bz/browse.php?incldead=0&search=Ray+Gosling&nonboolean=1) and download some of the programs he's made in the past few years you'd see he's become a bit of a frail & confused (compared to how I remember him anyway?).

Which is why I questioned his initial statement when he said the friend was "dying of AIDS"? It's an odd thing to say these days, you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.

If you can't access "The Box" from your location and want to see the files I will upload them and the original Inside Out documentary where he made the claim  to the non-porn section of http://www.gay-torrents.net (http://www.gay-torrents.net) I'm sure we all know where that is  ;D
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: bocker3 on February 23, 2010, 07:58:42 pm
Which is why I questioned his initial statement when he said the friend was "dying of AIDS"? It's an odd thing to say these days, you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.

Your logic is hard for me to grasp. 
He may be frail and his memory may be suspect but to say that some who lived through early years of this pandemic would NOT say someone was dying of AIDS makes no sense.  I have never heard anyone say that someone with HIV/AIDS died of PCP or KS -- they say that they died from AIDS or that they died of PCP due to AIDS. 
You may be "technically" correct in your assertions, but your conclusions are completely false.

Mike
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on February 23, 2010, 08:20:43 pm
you'd be much more likely (particularly as a gay man) to say they were dying of PCP, Kaposis Sarcoma, heart disease or cancer as he had AIDS/HIV?.
perhaps this a difference between a gay man that lived through the heyday of the epidemic when so many were dying versus someone newer to the situation (ie after 2000 or so) and where our initial disagreement comes from.

That or you hang around too many people who know too much about the particulars of HIV/AIDS. Perhaps you need to meet some more people less acquainted with this disease. :D ;D

I clearly tell the casual listener that my partner died of AIDS in 2008. Someone more knowledgeable about how the disease works may ask the followup question about what particular, to which I answer non-Hodgkins lymphoma (which I usually have to describe to both the casual and knowledgeable listener. damned esoteric illnesses. LOL unless you or a close friend has had it, then most people don't know what you're talking about) and then I mention the pneumonia he acquired within the last few days of his life.

Having had so many friends and partners die of AIDS, I would never dream of saying they died of PCP, or KS, etc; but that they died of AIDS. The general layperson on the street clearly understands the implications of saying someone died of AIDS but would never understand that dying of non-Hodgkins lymphoma meant it was an HIV-related death.

(By the way, a person has to register to log in to view the URL you posted and the site is no longer taking registrations.)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on February 23, 2010, 09:51:25 pm
I think it does stretch back to the fact that the USA and England are two countries separated by a  common language. (George Bernard Shaw - Whenever) {I used to go out with his great granddaughter years ago?) I personally would not be satisfied with somebody saying that their parter had died from AIDS , not specific enough for me.

I'll post the files on http://www.gay-torrents.net (http://www.gay-torrents.net) and my own server tomorrow, they aren't subject to copyright or anything as BBC iPlayer makes them available most of the time.

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Miss Philicia on February 24, 2010, 09:29:49 am
I personally would not be satisfied with somebody saying that their parter had died from AIDS , not specific enough for me.

I doubt that anyone relating their partner's death cares a squat about satisfying your need for subtle detailing of OIs.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on August 20, 2010, 07:32:39 am
Hate to say I told you so on this thread but BBC's Ray Gosling faces wasting police time charge (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11035402)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Cliff on August 20, 2010, 07:40:18 am
Yeah, I saw that and thought about the discussion here.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Veritee on August 20, 2010, 08:47:22 am
No he is not in jail/prison and he will not be charged with murdering anyoneor manslaughter etc.
He is only to be charged with 'wasting police time'


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100051080/ray-gosling-to-be-charged-with-wasting-police-time-but-why-did-the-bbc-not-check-his-confession/

The word is on the street - and I have met Ray many years ago when a youth worker as he was then a very well known Youth activist many years ago before his career in broadcasting ..................

Is it did not actually happen. He is gay, maybe, had a lover who was then dying of AIDs or knew some that did - as did us all - many, many years ago and maybe thought of doing what he said he did .

But that he did not do it.

And having met him - although only many years ago and I would not profess to known him ...........

 but know of him well and how he operates well and have indeed admired him and followed his career, I think this is highly likely because as a activist and broadcaster he has often made dramatic statements that were bending he truth to get a reaction and to get his point made.

I think this time it misfired and he just went too far with this this time.

If there was anything to substantiate that he really did smother his lover, even many years ago , with the extensive investigations the UK police have done over the last half yea , even if they could only tie anything in the slightest up with the records of anyone Ray  knew that died of AIDs in hospital even so long ago, knowing the British police he would have been charged with murder or manslaughter.

I think there is no evidence and he did not do it, and has probaly confessed to the police he did not do it and was just makign a dramatic statement to make a point

Just used some fact and mixed it with an exaggerated statement to make a point in a TV documentary to make a point about mercy killing and euthanasia - as he has done this very often.

Just my opinion

Veritee
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Veritee on August 20, 2010, 08:50:59 am
Sorry to come into this discussion late and if this point has already been made but I have been away for forums for a while. I have tried to catch up on this thread before answering but some of the discussions were very complicated and hard to follow .

But I doubt Ray murdered of smothered anyone, always did,  and that is the conclusion of the UK Police after months of investigation
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Veritee on August 20, 2010, 09:00:14 am

Quote
It may be no coincidence that there is a major debate going on in the UK at the moment around the issue of assisted suicide, particularly following the author Terry Pratchett's recent Dimbleby lecture "Shaking Hands With Death".

It is no co-incidence at all and this was precisely Rays point when he made the original statement in the documentary that sparked this investigation off.

And Ray is plainly not the person he once was. He appears to be suffering memory loss and at times appears confused, so his judgment when he made that statement on that documentary for dramatic effect was perhaps not what it may once had been - i.e in the past he would suggest something to make a point without actually lying or incriminating himself.

Also in the UK we DO! still say someone died of AIDS

Even now and not the particular ailment that killed them. And you woudl especially say someone was dying or died of AIDS if your experience was during the terrible early time when their was no treatment as Ray Gosling's .
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on August 20, 2010, 11:14:32 am
He is only to be charged with 'wasting police time'

Just used some fact and mixed it with an exaggerated statement to make a point in a TV documentary to make a point about mercy killing and euthanasia
thanks for the update. ;) What a very strange ending though to this story. And what a strange charge as in essence a man, a media personality, made a outlandish comment on television (a medium, my father taught me in the 60s, is all fabrication and that even the "news" is twisted to make someone's point), the police investigate and determine that it's not true, and then charge the television personality for wasting their time.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: jaguarpaw on August 20, 2010, 02:46:04 pm
I just assume it means they were raised in a barn.

Maybe new members come in here armed with the information they have just learned and because of the positive changes in medicine over the last 20 or so years, and because they did not front the dark days of this epidemic, see things differently. Perhaps overly optimistic, or have skewed view of what it means to on this boat.

Naive I would call them...... I would call myself.

I'd say dont quickly dismiss us as idiots, most of us have good intentions....... how about a little patience, eh? Besides it woud suck to not see a new face in years, right? (though it'd mean wonders in terms of the epidemic.)

I know humor is valued here, and I do appreciate the barn comment, it made me smile, then chuckle. But I think Mecch nailed it.

I'm not a trying to argue in this case I just wanted to put the noob's point of view out there.
----------------------------------------
About the story.... ealier last year in the midst of despair, I even researched travelling to Europe to end my life by euthanasia. I'm glad I didn't follow through.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 20, 2010, 03:33:01 pm
I've lost five people this year from AIDS.  Three languished for years in unimaginable pain and a diminished quality of life. Three spent their last weeks in hospitals/hospice, while organ after organ failed.

One had a longstanding infection that an intact immune system would have eradicated. One had battled a hundred little infections, until his entire system collapsed.

My five friends died from pneumonia From organ failure. From staph infection. From heart failure. All related directly to AIDS, and the complications thereof.

They all died of AIDS, whether the cause of death was heart or organ failure, from a usually easily treatable infection or a long term struggle with a hundred tiny things that, combined, tore through the body.

I do not need to know the details. They serve me no useful purpose here at the end of the world. Some died surrounded by family and loved ones, some died horribly alone.

This has been a wretched year for me, insofar as people dying. I have the utmost respect for someone brave enough to help alleviate another person's suffering.

I absolutely hope that, when the time comes, if I am in pain and no longer connected to this world, that someone helps me leave.

The heart asks pleasure first
And then, excuse from pain-
And then, those little anodynes
That deaden suffering;

And then, to go to sleep;
And then, if it should be
The will of its Inquisitor,
The liberty to die.



-emily dickenson

Jaguar, you asked for the old timers to respect newly diagnosed. I sincerely do try to do that. If I seem ill-tempered as of late, it is because many of the touchstones from whom I learned about this illness, unspeakably brave mentors and role models from whom I found myself centered, are dead.

People on this site (and IRL) can offer support, compassion, love, and even release, if we are both brave enough. But when push comes to shove, we live with this illness inside our own heads. We are alone in our meat-boxes, in a universe not of our making - or even our choosing, assuming we stay in the same one.

I do respect the process of acclimating to this. HIV forces people to grow up a little sooner than they want to, and that's hard. Impossible so, for some, who seek refuge in booze and drugs and sex and even vile judgment of others.

Newly diagnosed people might never know those horrors, save witnessing them when they happen to older people and those who forsake treatment, or for whom treatment fails.

others of us walk through our lives with dozens, sometimes hundreds of ghosts chained to our hearts. They are supposed to be insubstantial, those ghosts. But they are sometimes crushingly heavy. So from time to time, I get testy. And as for the talk show host's situation, I have nothing but sympathy and empathy for the man, whether or not his story is true.

*edited for spell check
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Miss Philicia on August 20, 2010, 03:39:56 pm
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a sudden increase in "New" members who come in here with no other desire than to argue (minutiae or otherwise) with the longer term members?

I'll never understand why someone would wish to join a support group and then instantly start up with arguments.  Seems a bit hopeless to me.

Agreed.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 20, 2010, 03:44:20 pm
Agreed.

I have to agree. Support and informational forum, right? I mean, aside from AM I.

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: bocker3 on August 20, 2010, 04:29:20 pm
Maybe new members come in here armed with the information they have just learned and because of the positive changes in medicine over the last 20 or so years, and because they did not front the dark days of this epidemic, see things differently. Perhaps overly optimistic, or have skewed view of what it means to on this boat.

Naive I would call them...... I would call myself.

I'd say dont quickly dismiss us as idiots, most of us have good intentions....... how about a little patience, eh? Besides it woud suck to not see a new face in years, right? (though it'd mean wonders in terms of the epidemic.)

Actually, I'd direct you to look at all of Andy99's posts (as he is the poster I was refering to back on Feb 20).  He argued minutiae on here, then disappeared (with one posting exception in March) until today, to get back into it on this thread.  I don't require patience with his sort, I simply need an "ignore" button.  He was here to do nothing but argue.  This isn't about a "newbie to HIV" it's about someone new to this site who is simply stirring the pot.

this is a support site, and when you are new you shouldn't try to "greet" everyone with non-stop arguments.  It certainly isn't the way I would choose to gain support -- and if he's not looking for support, then I would suggest he find a forum that more meets his needs.

Just saying.....

Mike
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on August 20, 2010, 07:46:22 pm
Actually, I'd direct you to look at all of Andy99's posts (as he is the poster I was referring to back on Feb 20).  He argued minutiae on here, then disappeared (with one posting exception in March) until today, to get back into it on this thread.  I don't require patience with his sort, I simply need an "ignore" button.  He was here to do nothing but argue.  This isn't about a "newbie to HIV" it's about someone new to this site who is simply stirring the pot.

this is a support site, and when you are new you shouldn't try to "greet" everyone with nonstop arguments.  It certainly isn't the way I would choose to gain support -- and if he's not looking for support, then I would suggest he find a forum that more meets his needs.

Just saying.....



Mike

I wasn't actually asking for any support in this thread, I was merely commenting that Ray Gosling is a bullshitter.

The semantics of HIV and AIDS have intrigued me since my diagnosis, an interesting one today was Jan Moir's column in the Daily Mail about Nadja Benaissa

Quote
Nadja Benaissa is in court accused of infecting a man with HIV by sleeping with him when she knew she had the virus.

The star of the German pop group No Angels claimed, in her defence, that she knew she was careless, but had been advised that the chances of her passing on the virus were near zero. So it wasn't her fault.

Not quite good enough, Nadja. Not by a long, long way.

Yes, she was only 17 at the time. And there are moments in court when she looks vulnerable.

But to her charges of attempted aggravated assault and grievous bodily harm, there can only be one verdict. Guilty.

She knew exactly what she was doing. How hard could it have been to insist that the boys wore condoms?

How could she even think of exposing them to the danger? Safe sex might be a two-way street, and Aids is not the killer it once was, but Miss Benaissa should be grateful that she is not on a much more serious charge.

There should be no diminishment of her alleged crime

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1304638/JAN-MOIR-Long-live-Her-Maj---lets-end-royal-Muppet-show.html#ixzz0xBx2yEp7

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1304638/JAN-MOIR-Long-live-Her-Maj---lets-end-royal-Muppet-show.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1304638/JAN-MOIR-Long-live-Her-Maj---lets-end-royal-Muppet-show.html)


To say that "Aids is not the killer it once was" is inaccurate, HIV under control but not Aids. which currently defined as when you CD4 slips below 200 and your viral load is detectable is a serious health risk even now. (some journalist anyway? "diminishment" isn't even a word in any dictionary)

I'd also like to point out that I have contributed to other threads on this site i.e http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31064.msg386880#msg386880 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31064.msg386880#msg386880) pretty regularly.

I just gave this thread a miss because i knew I was right about Ray!
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Ann on August 20, 2010, 11:32:56 pm
Andy, give me a break. You come here and quote the Daily (Hate) Mail?

"She knew exactly what she was doing. How hard could it have been to insist that the boys wore condoms?"

I know first hand how hard it is to get guys to use condoms, even when they KNOW you are hiv positive.

Stick your judgemental crap up your ass. Please. And try living in the REAL world with the rest of us.

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: leatherman on August 21, 2010, 12:47:09 am
The semantics of HIV and AIDS have intrigued me since my diagnosis, ...

To say that "Aids is not the killer it once was" is inaccurate, HIV under control but not Aids. which currently defined as when you CD4 slips below 200 and your viral load is detectable is a serious health risk even now.
I think we talked about this before, about how the words "HIV" and "AIDS" are synonymous to the general population, and also why most say that "AIDS kills" rather than "PCP kills". AIDS deaths are down (compare to say 1999) thanks to the meds, hence "AIDS is not the killer that it once was" even though HIV is still a destructive virus causing a syndrome that allows an illness to become terminal.

of course you and I understand that "HIV" and "AIDS" are different words; yet we also understand how intricately those words are linked together (AIDS is the usual outcome of untreated HIV) and how to the layman these words have little difference. Technically no one dies of HIV, they die from some complication of AIDS.

But to the general population there is little difference in the words. Would it be nice if journalists wouldn't propogate these misconceptions? Sure; but they are just people too, and most people don't know much about the diseases that don't affect them. I often hear people complaining about how staff in ERs don't know much about HIV/AIDS - well of course not. Few of the staff are usually positive and few people present to the ER with such an issue. ER staff know a lot about broken bones and heart attacks, but like most journalists, they don't know enough about HIV/AIDS

for some of us (those affected and infected), the difference in the words can be quite important though. Medical care can be based upon the difference, and funding can be too. Sadly, for some people there can be differing levels of stigma attached to those two words too. Although I no longer fit the diagnostic criteria for AIDS (cd4<200 + OI +VL) I still consider myself a "person living with aids" as I spent over a decade with the clinical diagnosis, and that status allows me to continue to receive proper health care while at the same time allowing my state to have proper funding for my treatment. Other people can't wait to claim that they "only have HIV" after going back to cd4>200 + UD VL because it helps them mentally adjust to their situation.

the semantics of HIV/AIDS are similar to the issue surrounding diabetes. Not having that problem myself, I have no clue to what type 1, 2, etc means nor what the difference is. I also say and think that diabetes is the cause of death for people although it may be kidney disease/failure that is the actual cause of death. Here's an article ("Diabetes: Just As Deadly As Ever" (http://newsblaze.com/story/20051214083109nnnn.nb/topstory.html)) illustrating the diabetes semantics (Diabetes itself doesn't kill people, complications from uncontrolled blood sugars do), similar to the HIV/AIDS semantics.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: J.R.E. on August 29, 2010, 05:41:47 am
Verdict is in for Nadja Benaissa :


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/199199.php


http://celebs.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978473273



German pop star Nadja Benaissa, on trial for reckless transmission of HIV to a former partner, has been given a two year suspended sentence.

Lisa Power, Policy Director at Terrence Higgins Trust, responds: "It's vital that we stop the onward transmission of HIV, but we don't believe that prosecutions like this help. We support prosecutions where someone has intentionally passed on the virus, but that clearly wasn't the case here. Nadja was a vulnerable 16-year-old when she was diagnosed and had difficulty managing her sex life. Over 200,000 young people in the UK caught an STI last year, and one in ten was re-infected within the year, so unfortunately reckless sexual behaviour is not uncommon. For an unlucky few, a moment's recklessness will leave them with an incurable, serious infection. If you're going to have sex, the best way to ensure your health is to wear a condom.

"People with HIV should - and the vast majority, do - make every effort to avoid passing the virus on. But some people struggle with disclosure for a number of reasons, and they need support to manage safer sex. We know that these cases make it harder for some people to come forward and ask for help. We urge everyone having difficulty managing safer sex - whether they think they've got HIV or not - to call THT Direct and find out how to get support to change their behaviour.

"We shouldn't forget that in the UK, one in four people with HIV don't know they have it, so anyone having sex with a new partner should take responsibility for their own sexual health and insist on condoms. Not only may someone feel unable to tell you they have HIV, they may not know themselves."

Source:
Terrence Higgins Trust
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Hellraiser on August 29, 2010, 12:04:20 pm
That is about the smartest legal decision I've seen regarding HIV.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: skeebo1969 on August 29, 2010, 12:15:11 pm
"We shouldn't forget that in the UK, one in four people with HIV don't know they have it, so anyone having sex with a new partner should take responsibility for their own sexual health and insist on condoms. Not only may someone feel unable to tell you they have HIV, they may not know themselves."

This should be put in bold and written in gold.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 29, 2010, 02:12:45 pm
That should be a sticky thread, and everyone should agree to it, like "terms of conditions" before they begin posting.

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: edfu on September 14, 2010, 11:21:09 pm
So...Gosling made up the whole story and receives suspended sentence:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/14/ray-gosling-court-case-killing-lover

Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Andy99 on April 04, 2014, 07:14:33 pm
I thought that I should update this post out of courtesy to all of the contributors.
 
On 14 September 2010, he was given a 90-day suspended sentence at Nottingham Magistrates' Court.

He died aged 74, at the Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham on 19 November 2013.

He was unfortunately the guy that I always thought he was...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gosling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gosling)
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: zach on April 04, 2014, 07:37:50 pm
Kill this zombie thread. And Andy, I hope you've grown considerably since your original 18 posts.
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: skeebo1969 on April 04, 2014, 08:58:51 pm


  Andy's ability to recollect minor circumstances 3 years later is quite the impressive feat.  Show off!
Title: Re: BBC host admits to mercy killing
Post by: Raf on April 04, 2014, 09:05:52 pm
Holy necrothread batman!