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Author Topic: NEED YOUR INPUT!  (Read 13085 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
NEED YOUR INPUT!
« on: January 31, 2008, 04:56:38 pm »
Please take a few minutes to help us better understand our readership and membership...


Thanks everyone!

Tim Horn

Offline Jody

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,961
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 06:16:31 pm »
I took the survey.

Jody
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline bosco

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 06:21:13 pm »
Just finished the survey...glad I could help.
"Dog is my co-pilot".

Offline minismom

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,660
  • Quocumque jeceris stabit
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 06:27:37 pm »
I cheated - I filled it out twice.  Once for me and once for Mini.  I know she's techically not old enough to offically participate in the forums, but she's here, so I filled it out for her. 

Are you going to post the results somewhere, maybe with %'s for each category?  It would be interesting to see.

Mum (and Mini)
www.watoto.com
www.MotherBearProject.org
"Whichever way you throw me, i will stand"
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia"  Charles Schultz

Dan J.

  • Guest
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 06:33:27 pm »
Done.

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 07:04:22 pm »
Thanks everyone!

We need to conduct basic surveys like this from time to time to justify our existence. In the near future, I hope to design a more complete survey that will yield all sorts of useful information, for staff and members alike.

To those who haven't filled out the survey yet -- please do!

Cheers,

Tim

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,207
  • Positive since 1985, joined forums 12/03
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 07:44:21 pm »


I think I did this survey, About a year ago, but I did it again anyways.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune / Epzicom Eliquis, Diltiazem. Pravastatin 80mg, Ezetimibe. UPDATED 2/18/24
 Tested positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of Oct 2nd, 2023, Viral load Undetectable.
CD 4 @676 /  CD4 % @ 18 %
Lymphocytes,absolute-3815 (within range)


72 YEARS YOUNG

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 08:26:36 pm »
Done.

MtD

Offline RICKY77531

  • Member
  • Posts: 104
  • just Chill
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 08:53:54 pm »
done....... ;D
06/2007   CD4 266  Vl 62000
06/2007   CD4 200  Vl 13495
07/2007   ATRIPLA
09/2007   CD4 323  VL Undetectable
11/2007   CD4 428  VL Undetectable
01/2008   CD4 357  VL Undetectable
04/2008   CD4 357  VL UNDETECTABLE
08/2008   CD4 402  VL UNDETECTABLE
11/2008   CD4 421  79 DETECTABLE..
2/2009     CD4 450  VL UNDETECTABLE

Offline minismom

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,660
  • Quocumque jeceris stabit
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 09:16:26 pm »
Who do you have to justify the site's existence to and why?

Mum
www.watoto.com
www.MotherBearProject.org
"Whichever way you throw me, i will stand"
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia"  Charles Schultz

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,786
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 09:45:55 pm »
Done.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Condom and Lube Info https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/safer-sex
Please check out our lessons on PEP and PrEP. https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/pep-prep

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Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,530
  • 36 years positive, 64 years a pain in the butt
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2008, 11:06:40 pm »
Done and done.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Jacques

  • Member
  • Posts: 171
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2008, 11:41:27 pm »
Done. ;)
Jacques
Living positively since 1987
latest lab :july 2010
Undetectable Cd4 1080
43% on Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2008, 11:52:10 pm »
Done....
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline leatherman

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 8,583
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 01:30:26 am »
me too!  ;D
leatherman (aka Michael)

We were standing all alone
You were leaning in to speak to me
Acting like a mover shaker
Dancing to Madonna then you kissed me
And I think about it all the time
- Darren Hayes, "Chained to You"

Offline Iggy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,434
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 11:49:28 am »
done (yesterday)

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 05:20:23 pm »
I filled out the survey.. I hope it helps...

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2008, 03:19:26 pm »
bump

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2008, 04:52:35 pm »
I have done it too....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,374
  • His name is Carl.
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2008, 05:09:30 pm »
i did it awhile back and forgot to post that i did.

you have my sad facts.   :o
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline pozguy75

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,239
    • POZitively Speaking
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2008, 05:49:08 pm »
I did it!!
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,906
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2008, 10:03:23 pm »
Hey Tim, next time do find a list of country that still has "Hong Kong". Although we're part of China now, it's still an "independent" special administrative region. We're not a "nation" but strictly speaking we do qualify as a "country". Thanks, Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2008, 11:48:38 am »
bump

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2008, 11:50:10 am »
Done... a few months back.

Offline scud44

  • Member
  • Posts: 393
  • I am watching you
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2008, 05:35:16 pm »
 Scuddles has done his bit for you

CD4 = 110 - 30 July 2007 - 10%
VL = 139000 - 30 July 2007
CD4 = 252 - 6th August 2007
VL = 16400 - 23rd August 2007
CD4 = 240 - 23rd August 2007
VL = 400 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 96 - 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 120 18th Sept 2007
VL = 386000 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 160 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 110 10th Jan 2008
CD4 = 311 29th Jan 2008
VL = <50 29th Jan 2008
CD4 = 148 2nd April 2008
VL = 110,000 2nd April 2008
June 2010 and nothing has improved

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2008, 07:04:05 pm »
I must have missed it before!  I filled it out.  Like others, I'd be curious as to what the numbers and percentages are. 

Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline BreakerOneNine

  • Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Myspace
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2008, 10:55:39 pm »
I did it....lol....what are the stats?
poz 96 and med free til now.
Sept 2007 cd4 280 28.37% and VL 19,200
Nov 2007 cd4 230 25.87% and VL 38,000
Dec 2007 start Atripla
Jan 2008 cd4 490 32.5% and VL 119
Feb 2008 cd4 450 28.4% and VL less than 50
April 2008 cd4 510 28.6% and VL less than 48
July 2008 cd4 570 30.2% and VL less than 48
Dec 2008 cd4 570 32.0% and VL less than 48

Offline Peter Staley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2008, 08:37:24 am »
I'll list some stats once the survey has run for another month or so.  782 folks have completed the survey thus far, and once we get over a thousand, I'll post some results in this thread.

Thanks for taking the time to fill out the survey!  The feedback you've been leaving there has been especially helpful.

Peter

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2008, 11:24:12 am »
There are 6827 members and not even 1000 have filled out the questionaire?  Lets get busy!!
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline aliveinla

  • Member
  • Posts: 247
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2008, 12:30:14 pm »
Done mine.
4/24/07: Last tested Neg
1/22/08: First tested Poz
1/30/08: CD4 393; 28%; VL: 44k
3/18/08: CD4 218; 26%; VL: 222K
4/24/08: CD4 402; 26%; VL: lab forgot
7/22/08: CD4 405; 25%; VL: 6,780
10/15/08: CD4 340, 26%; VL: N/A
2/4/09: CD4 394, 26%; VL: N/A
Jun 09: CD4 300, 25%; VL: 4000
Oct 09: CD4 324, 23%, VL: 10K
11/22/09: started Atripla
11/20/11: CD4 405; VL: UD

Offline superkim24

  • Member
  • Posts: 26
  • without a doubt
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2008, 11:20:24 pm »
Just done  ;)

Offline scud44

  • Member
  • Posts: 393
  • I am watching you
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2008, 06:55:48 am »
Hi tim,
When can we expect to see the results of this survey?
I think we would all like to see how the forums and Aidsmeds in particular are used

Regards
Scuddly
CD4 = 110 - 30 July 2007 - 10%
VL = 139000 - 30 July 2007
CD4 = 252 - 6th August 2007
VL = 16400 - 23rd August 2007
CD4 = 240 - 23rd August 2007
VL = 400 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 96 - 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 120 18th Sept 2007
VL = 386000 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 160 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 110 10th Jan 2008
CD4 = 311 29th Jan 2008
VL = <50 29th Jan 2008
CD4 = 148 2nd April 2008
VL = 110,000 2nd April 2008
June 2010 and nothing has improved

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2008, 07:54:57 am »
Is there a sticky on this? Started on Jan 31 and this is the first time I spot it. Anyway...basic survey--done.

Offline Ric Wilke

  • Member
  • Posts: 573
  • I joined AIDSmed.com 10/2002.
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2008, 08:04:56 pm »
I did it.  Hope I didn't do it twice.

Offline scud44

  • Member
  • Posts: 393
  • I am watching you
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2008, 05:06:06 am »
Do we have any results on this yet, Tim?

Regards
Scuddles
CD4 = 110 - 30 July 2007 - 10%
VL = 139000 - 30 July 2007
CD4 = 252 - 6th August 2007
VL = 16400 - 23rd August 2007
CD4 = 240 - 23rd August 2007
VL = 400 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 96 - 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 120 18th Sept 2007
VL = 386000 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 160 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 110 10th Jan 2008
CD4 = 311 29th Jan 2008
VL = <50 29th Jan 2008
CD4 = 148 2nd April 2008
VL = 110,000 2nd April 2008
June 2010 and nothing has improved

Offline heartforyou

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,132
  • I must be a survivor in many ways...
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2008, 05:30:08 am »
Done mine

Hermie
Infected 1983. Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Dovato once daily. Hydrea

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline OneMoreGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2008, 05:49:18 am »
Done with my two cents added under the comments section.  ;D
Psychologist, PhD
Counseling patients with HIV since Jan 1991
HIV since Dec 2005
There are three parts to any successful relationship (platonic or romantic): trust, honesty and communication

Offline rondrond

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,729
  • 22 years HIV+ yet a yard could be the death of me
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2008, 07:34:35 am »
Done. hmm, my comments may have turned into a short essay...sorry :-[
"I'm not done yet"....Glen Campbell

"I may not be exactly where I want to be, but I sure as Hell am not where I was"
Wynnona Judd

Diagnosed/HIV
1993
AZT
Norvir
1994-2001
Crixivan/Epivir/Zerit
No Meds for 7 Years

04jul07/DVT-right leg/Bi Lateral PE's     
16oct08/DVT-left leg
Aug09 Diagnosed: COPD

05may2015
Un-detectable
Tcells 700
44%

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2008, 08:42:16 am »
Scuddles -- thanks for the reminder!

We were able to collect more than 1,500 responses from our AIDSmeds.com readership (most of linked to our survey from our regular weekly newsletter). Here's a look at our top responses:

1) Approximately 83 percent of those utlizing our website are people living with HIV/AIDS. Approximately 5 percent are friends, partners or family members of someone with HIV and approximately 5 percent are licensed healthcare professionals.

2) The length of time since their HIV diagnoses varies considerably among the respondents, ranging from 1 percent diagnosed with HIV (most likely AIDS) since 1981 or longer, to 5.6 percent diagnosed in 2006.

3) Approximately 73 percent of the respondents are currently receiving antiretroviral therapy; approximately 4 percent are not currently taking meds but have done so in the past.

4) Approximately 19 percent of our respondents are female.

5) 26 percent of our respondents are heterosexual and 66 percent are gay/lesbian.

6) The average age of our respondents appears to be 47. The oldest respondents included two 72-year-old individuals; the youngest are two 17-year-olds.

7) Our readership is larger white -- exactly 75 percent of our survey respondents. Approximately 11 percent are black/AA and 9 percent are Hispanic/Latino.

8 ) Approximately 45 percent of you are employed full-time; 29 percent of you are unemployed and on disability.

9) 48 percent of you have a Bachelor's degree or higher; 35 percent have had some college; 12 percent graduated high school and 4 percent completed some high school.

10 ) 21 perent of our suvery responders make less than $15,000 a year; 13 percent make more than $100,000 a year.

11) Approximately one quarter of you live in California, Florida or New York. Deleware is our least represented. 12 percent of our readership hails from beyond the U.S. or Canada.

... and lots and lots of written comments.

That's a snapshot!

Tim Horn





 

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,786
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2008, 10:58:08 am »
I want to know who the 13% are that make more than $100,000 a year. ;)
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Condom and Lube Info https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/safer-sex
Please check out our lessons on PEP and PrEP. https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/pep-prep

https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/treatmentasprevention-tasp

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2008, 03:12:30 pm »
That's pretty interesting info.  I know it'd be a lot of work, but I'd like to see percentages of the info.  You know, like age.  We know the oldest and youngest, but what about most prevalent age.  You know... mean, median, mode, and range.  It probably doesn't matter to most people, but, personally, I like statistics (too bad I sucked at stats in school!).

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline scud44

  • Member
  • Posts: 393
  • I am watching you
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2008, 07:18:24 pm »
There are some interesting results in there - I hope that this will assit Aidsmeds in their future campaigning for well deserved funding

Well done, Tim and crew

Regards
Scuddly
CD4 = 110 - 30 July 2007 - 10%
VL = 139000 - 30 July 2007
CD4 = 252 - 6th August 2007
VL = 16400 - 23rd August 2007
CD4 = 240 - 23rd August 2007
VL = 400 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 96 - 4th Sept 2007
CD4 = 120 18th Sept 2007
VL = 386000 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 160 19th Nov 2007
CD4 = 110 10th Jan 2008
CD4 = 311 29th Jan 2008
VL = <50 29th Jan 2008
CD4 = 148 2nd April 2008
VL = 110,000 2nd April 2008
June 2010 and nothing has improved

Offline AndyArrow

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,197
Re: NEED YOUR INPUT!
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2008, 10:16:56 pm »
Input added  :)
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

 


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