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Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Jerry71 on December 28, 2006, 10:13:32 pm

Title: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Jerry71 on December 28, 2006, 10:13:32 pm: Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status. By the way it was good. I needed that since me and Brad are not on good terms lately and we have moved out of the same room together. I invited someone to come over for a quicky and had a blast. :-X
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: JeffInNYC on December 28, 2006, 10:52:29 pm: Quote from: Jerry71 on December 28, 2006, 10:13:32 pm
Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status. By the way it was good. I needed that since me and Brad are not on good terms lately and we have moved out of the same room together. I invited someone to come over for a quicky and had a blast. :-X

Well I wouldnt say you were bad,,..if was his own responsiibility to ask about your status and protect himself....out of curiosity, did you ask HIS status? for allyouknow maybe he was already poz? But either way, you werent bad because we all have to assume responsibility for our own well being.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Longislander on December 29, 2006, 12:07:45 am: and I'd have thought you already seperated rooms??
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Eldon on December 29, 2006, 02:42:15 am: (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/forfun_06/TaiwanDance.jpg)
Yes, I AM Supporting You!

Hey Jerry...

You were not a bad boy. We all tend to get naughty every now and then. It is GOOD that you enjoyed yourself. We are only Human right?

Don't You Dare Give Up... Don't You Dare Give In...
BECAUSE It IS ALL Within YOU to WIN!!!
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: aupointillimite on December 29, 2006, 09:22:30 pm: In a perfect world, I suppose we'd all disclose all the time.

The world's not perfect and neither are we.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:30:57 pm: Quote
if was his own responsiibility to ask about your status and protect himself.

Thats crap. We're positive it's OUR responsibility.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: aupointillimite on December 29, 2006, 09:34:01 pm: Quote from: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:30:57 pm
Thats crap. We're positive it's OUR responsibility.

While I'm inclined to agree with you... according to whom is it our responsibility?

I'm uncomfortable applying ethical demands to specific populations... especially when I'm a member of it.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:45:04 pm: I understand that this is an extreme but it gets my point across.
Asking why it's our responsibility is like telling the the guy with the loaded gun it's not his fault he shot the other guy. The other guy should have seen the gun and moved.
At some point we have to take responsibility or our actions, At some point we have to make ethical decisions and even ethical demands.
Who decided it's not ok to slap the shit out of someone just because you don't like the way they look? It's really no different.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: aupointillimite on December 29, 2006, 09:56:25 pm: Quote from: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:45:04 pm
I understand that this is an extreme but it gets my point across.
Asking why it's our responsibility is like telling the the guy with the loaded gun it's not his fault he shot the other guy. The other guy should have seen the gun and moved.
At some point we have to take responsibility or our actions, At some point we have to make ethical decisions and even ethical demands.
Who decided it's not ok to slap the shit out of someone just because you don't like the way they look? It's really no different.

It is different. Assaulting someone is an act that is inherently malicious.

And I don't think that the comparison of people with HIV/AIDS to loaded guns is a valid one in the least. When someone is shot, they will suffer some sort of physical damage... guaranteed. Protected sex with an HIV+ person is a virtual guarantee of no physical consequence to the negative person.

I think that putting the onus of disclosure on those of us that are poz is inherently unfair, irresponsible, and is a set up for many more situations of undisclosed sexual intercourse. I can say that it is the responsibility of every HIV- person to ask someone's status if they truly wish to know... it was my responsibility to do that, and I failed to live up to it. Is this coupled with a responsibility on the part of HIV+ people to disclose? Yes. But don't put it all on me.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Cliff on December 29, 2006, 10:07:43 pm: Condoms prevent the transmission of HIV.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 10:15:52 pm: So, if it's not our responsibility why is it everyone else's responsibility?
To say I don't want to be responsible let the other guy worry about it doesn't work. The other guy is going to say the same thing.
Someone has to be responsible and stop this from spreading. We are the ones that can stop it. It falls on us.
I understand as well as anyone that this is no fun for us but it doesn't just go away by it's self.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: JeffInNYC on December 29, 2006, 10:28:17 pm: Well I am a neggie. It would be great if the men I want to play with would disclose their status. Many probably do, and unofrtunately, many probably dont even know their status. But the fact of the matter is, people also lie. If I meet someone I want to fool around with, I want to remain negative - but I cannot rely on potential partners to have my best interest at heart. Many may be great guys, but not everyone is so nice. taken all this into consideration, I can only truly rely upon myself to keep my status protected - so I have to take the necessary precautions by asking questions AND by having protected sex.

But this is just me and I respect anyone whose opinion differs from my own and follows their own set of rules in these circumstances.

Oh and one more thing....in these cases sex is consensual...to compare with being shot is like comparing apples to oranges....I dont think being a victim of a crime is consensual.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 10:33:58 pm: Quote
I can only truly rely upon myself to keep my status protected - so I have to take the necessary precautions by asking questions AND by having protected sex.

I actually agree completely with that statement. The first statement was way different.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: aupointillimite on December 29, 2006, 10:40:00 pm: Quote from: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 10:15:52 pm
So, if it's not our responsibility why is it everyone else's responsibility?
To say I don't want to be responsible let the other guy worry about it doesn't work. The other guy is going to say the same thing.
Someone has to be responsible and stop this from spreading. We are the ones that can stop it. It falls on us.
I understand as well as anyone that this is no fun for us but it doesn't just go away by it's self.

I've been saying that the responsibility should be shared. I don't think that 100% of the ethical responsibility for disclosure goes along with the virus into everyone it infects.

I think this is a question that is a lot more serious than "fun." It's a question, ultimately, of sitgma and sexual segregation. To posit that each and every HIV+ person is solely responsible for disclosure, to compare ourselves to loaded guns, and to give us the power of stopping an epidemic dead in its tracks is giving us an almost godlike power over this virus. That premise turns each poz person into judge, jury, and executioner... and in reality, we're just people. We are people with HIV. As humans, we don't have that responsibility We communicate with HIV- people everyday on a multitude of levels... some casual, some not so casual... and in every interaction, sometimes people make mistakes.

What's that expression? With power comes responsibility? Logically, one would assume that having some sort of responsibility implies that one would have some sort of power. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that having HIV means that a lot of basic powers are stripped from us to varying degrees... and that's incredibly difficult for humans to deal with... I'm not looking to have a bunch of extra responsibility shoved on me because I caught a virus. And I don't think it's realistic to assume that every poz person should either.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Basquo on December 30, 2006, 01:31:21 am: Well, back to the event that spawned this discussion, I'm glad you got some Jerry!!! ;D
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: fearless on December 30, 2006, 06:04:20 am: One thing you did not state, Jerry, was whether or not you guys used condoms.

Don't worry, I live in a glass house so will not be throwing stones. I'm no angel when it comes to these things, but here's my two bobs worth.

I have to agree with aupointillimite, in that I don't believe I should be forced into disclosure, with a proviso. That is, so long as I am practising safer sex. Disclosure, itself does not prevent the spread of the virus, safer sex does.

If I am having unprotected sex, then I should discuss it beforehand. Those who know me on here, however, know that I have not been perfect in this regard. One of the reasons that I pretty much steer clear of casual sex these days.

But, I firmly believe that everyperson is responsible for their own protection. Me, I need to protect myself from the myriad of other bugs that I don't want, and I should advise him of my bug. My partner is responsible for his own protection. There are so many people who don't know their HIV status, or their status for other STD's, that him simply asking someones status does not equal protection.

As an aside, it is illegal in the State I live in, NSW, to not disclose to a partner before sex if you are HIV +ve, or if you have any other STD, protected sex or not. I personally, think these laws suck. Why isn't there a similar law requiring to HIV -ve people to only have safer sex, or to inquire of their partner's HIV status and status re all other STD's?
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: blondbeauty on December 30, 2006, 06:47:15 am: You have not been a bad boy. Nobody discloses. But most people always wear condoms without asking or telling their status, which means they realize they might be having sex with someone with HIV or any other STD disease.
That is what condoms are for. If everybody told the truth or knew their status condoms would not be necessary.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: RapidRod on December 30, 2006, 06:59:39 am: Jerry, I found your twin. He lives here in town and is also gay. I'll have to get a picture of him and send it to you. You'll probably freak. It's all right that you have fun, just be careful and be safe. If you don't care I want to show him your picture. I want to see the look on his face. :D

Rodney
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 30, 2006, 08:24:21 am: Quote from: Jerry71 on December 28, 2006, 10:13:32 pm
Ok I'm only human and when the need hit me I took the chance and got with someone tonight and had fun with them and they did not ask about my status.

Just assuming here by " I took the chance " that condoms were not used. I've done this and it is why I am here, " I took the chance ". Luckily I tested and found out I was positive before taking the chance again. I still take the chance but with someone who is also positive. It is our choice, mutually, however wrong the experts and nay sayers may advise.

Quote from: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:30:57 pm
That's crap. We're positive it's OUR responsibility.

While I once felt this way and agreed 100% with you Grinch, I now can't hold either party solely responsible. Now if a neggie wants to remain so it is 100% their responsibility to protect themselves. Only an idiot would not realize the risks involved. I was the idiot at one time, now I'm more educated on the matter, all be it a little after the fact.

Quote from: Grinch on December 29, 2006, 09:45:04 pm

Asking why it's our responsibility is like telling the the guy with the loaded gun it's not his fault he shot the other guy. The other guy should have seen the gun and moved.

The other guy had his finger on the trigger also... He could have removed it at any time, but chose not too (assuming here condoms were not used that is).

Quote from: JeffInNYC on December 29, 2006, 10:28:17 pm
Well I am a neggie. It would be great if the men I want to play with would disclose their status. Many probably do, and unfortunately, many probably don't even know their status. But the fact of the matter is, people also lie. If I meet someone I want to fool around with, I want to remain negative - but I cannot rely on potential partners to have my best interest at heart. Many may be great guys, but not everyone is so nice. taken all this into consideration, I can only truly rely upon myself to keep my status protected - so I have to take the necessary precautions by asking questions AND by having protected sex.

Bravo!!!! Amen to that brother.... see folks some neggies do have a clue! Education hits few and it's definitely hit Jeff. Jeff if we all had your head none of us would be here. Keep up the good work (sorry to sound so elementary only one cup of coffee so far).

In my own situation after I was infected I was having unprotected sex with both my ex wives. I was really getting it on with ex wife #1. So much so I can't even give an accurate count to the number of times. She and I would have marathon sessions over the course of a weekend and this happend on several weekends. I did not know my status at the time. When I tested positive in September of 05 it took me a month before I was able to work up the nerve to tell her. Luckily for her, not necessarily me, she has remained negative. If she had tested positive it would have been her own fault not mine. We had not been together for over 10 years before we had our animalistic sexcapades. She just figured that I had been a good boy during my second marriage, which was mainly the case except for one occasion which took place in April of 05.

Ex wife #2 on the other hand is a different scenario. We were in a monogamous relationship for the better part of 10 years. Towards the end we had sex maybe 3 times a year. She had issues that would make this thread longer than the porn thread if I wrote about them, because I want Jeromy to hold the title for longest thread I won't do so. Long story short, I cheated on her; had one sexual experience with her after and lucky for me she tested negative.

It is my opinion.... MY OPINION... That Jerry has done nothing wrong here and once again that is assuming he did not use condoms which is not even a question to throw at Jerry. It's none of our frickin business.

This is what I do hope though, once again assuming condoms were not used. That this guy, assuming he is negative, tests regularly. Lucky for me I always tested when not in a monogamous relationship and am proud to say I never infected anyone... I know this for a fact. Now as mentioned I had a close call, but only ex wife #2 was really my responsibility. We were married for 10 years and had a child. I was the one who did not love myself and consequently did not protect myself or her trust. There are married women here that have had this done to them... Outside of the needle pricks and what not those are the only victims here. Not Jerry's fling mate!

Quote from: Basquo on December 30, 2006, 01:31:21 am
Well, back to the event that spawned this discussion, I'm glad you got some Jerry!!! ;D

Basquo,

This is why I have always been a fan of yours! You are truly one of the most non judgemental people that inhabit these forums..

Jerry I've always felt like a protective big brother to you... I can't explain it other than to say you remind me much of myself. Keep your chin up and keep trucking forward.. I am so proud of you still. You finally got out from under your parents and moved on with your life. You were miserable and don't you ever go back to that mindset!

Quote from: RapidRod on December 30, 2006, 06:59:39 am
Jerry, I found your twin. He lives here in town and is also gay. I'll have to get a picture of him and send it to you. You'll probably freak. It's all right that you have fun, just be careful and be safe. If you don't care I want to show him your picture. I want to see the look on his face. :D

Rodney

Well I am glad you clarified he was gay because I figured it was a pic of me, I am such a good looking guy. How do I know this? You should see the hot mama sleeping in my bed!!

I'm back... yes I could not stay away from you fools too long!

Love to all,

Thomas
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Cliff on December 30, 2006, 10:12:08 am: Quote from: blondbeauty on December 30, 2006, 06:47:15 am
You have not been a bad boy. Nobody discloses. But most people always wear condoms without asking or telling their status, which means they realize they might be having sex with someone with HIV or any other STD disease.
That is what condoms are for. If everybody told the truth or knew their status condoms would not be necessary.
Bingo! Grinch didn't even bother to ask Jerry if, (or even simply assume that), he was wearing condoms. The easy thing in the world is to condemn someone for not disclosing or sitting on a soap box pretending that 100% disclosure is the only option. It's not. You can prevent the transmission of HIV simply by wearing a condom. These loaded gun scenarios are nonsensical and full of judgment, (as if we are all loaded guns just waiting to kill an innocent victim).

Fact is, 100% disclosure is not a realistic solution and quite honestly probably wouldn't impact the HIV transmission rates since the vast majority of people who know their status already take the necessary precautions to stop further transmission of their disease (whether by using condoms, sero-sorting, disclosing, etc.). This disease continues to be spread primarily by people who do NOT know their status. 100% disclosure isn't going to do much to prevent those kinds of transmissions.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: bocker3 on December 30, 2006, 02:19:20 pm: First things first -- Congrats Jerry -- we all need human contact and we remain sexual beings despite this virus. I don't think you were bad -- hell, I don't even know the whole story -- AND don't need to know it.

Now -- on to the disclose or not disclose -- many people are talking in absolutes here. We live in a world with few "absolutes", so let's move past that. It's not the sole responsibility of positives to disclose and not the sole responsibility of negatives to ask their partner's status. It IS, however, everyone's sole responsibility to take care of themselves and to be kind to others. So, everyone should assume their partner is positive and protective themselves, EVEN IF THEY SAY THEY ARE NEGATIVE. I personally feel it is MY responsibility to disclose to anyone I have sex with -- but I'm not putting that on everyone else.
Full disclosure won't be the end of this epidemic, but I have to disagree with Cliff and say that it would be of some help. Not all positives disclose OR practice safe sex, if they did, I would not have acquired a virus with some drug resistance. Now the person I got this virus from (notice I didn't say, "the person who gave it to me") may not have known he was positive, but someone in the chain did -- because they were treatment experienced. My point here -- is that disclosing and/or asking statuses is NOT the be all and end all -- we all have to play safe, that's all. AND, we all have to remember that humans are notorious for making "mistakes" and having "accidents". So, let's stop judging and just do the best we can.

Again -- congrats on your good time Jerry -- you certainly deserved it!!

Mike
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: pozguy75 on December 30, 2006, 02:39:43 pm: Now, Jerry, I am certainly not one to judge...so CONGRATULATIONS...now back to the judgment part...was his p&^% a good size?? I only ask because, if I were to judge...well that's where I would start... ;D

tootles!
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Razorbill on December 30, 2006, 03:01:17 pm: You're OK Jerry and I hear ya when you say you needed some contact. You know we have a enough to deal with on our own. I see no reason to babysit grown men. Everybody - that includes Amazonian Indians, the Inuit, Masai herders, Breton fishermen and even people from Kansas - knows that sex can bring some form of disease. Enough with the disclosure of private painful stuff to strangers just to get off. They roll the dice purposefully to have the pleasure of bareback sex. And we all know it. And yes they would be the first ones to lay blame if they come up poz. Too fuckin' bad.
Razorbill (again in a take no prisoners mood)
PS - I try to disclose, but sometimes booze, the speed of the act and just plain tiredness doesn't let it happen. I guess that leaves the other guy to his own devices. I would never top a guy bareback unless I knew he was poz.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Robert on December 30, 2006, 03:54:58 pm: you know me, Jerry. I'm happy for you. And like Razorbill says, "...I see no reason to babysit grown men."

Only wish the government felt the same way. They love to be judgemental, pry into our lives and tell us how to live. None of their business.

YOu just keep what you're doing, big guy. I agree with Thomas. Keep going. You're doing good. And Happy New Year.

robert
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Buckmark on December 31, 2006, 11:53:15 pm: I do believe that as positive folks, we have a responsibility to practice safer sex.
So do negative folks, as they are only negative as of the point in time of their
last test (and who knows what has transpired since then). When engaging in sex,
I believe that everyone (positive and negative) assumes some degree of risk of
transmitting an STD, and everyone should do what they can to minimize the risk.

Of course, it is easy to (more or less) objectively analyze it in a discussion here,
but sex is not analytical (thankfully). In the heat of the moment, we're not
going to conduct a risk analysis study. That's why safer sex education is so important,
and needs to be a prevalent, repetitive message so it becomes second nature.

I believe there are about 20 US states that have HIV transmission laws, most of which
make it a crime for positive folks to have sex without first disclosing their status --
regardless of whether transmission actually occurs or a condom was used. So, if you
live in one of these states, you should be aware of the possibility of criminal prosecution
if your partner later finds out that you did not disclose. I think these laws suck for many
reasons, not the least of which is that they seem to absolve negative folks of any
responsibility. Plus, I don't feel these laws make most positive folks any more
likely to disclose. Oh, and why do these laws apply only to HIV, and not other
STDs? >:(

Of course, since it has been years since I've had sex, this is mostly a moot point for me.
However, you can since I've thought about this a lot and am prepared just in case it
ever should come to pass. ;)

Cheers,

Henry
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 12:23:00 am: No condoms were used and damnint I loved it all. Saturday I found someone else that was positive though and that was even better than the first one. I had to end the 2006 year and start fresh for the new year.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: fearless on January 01, 2007, 01:11:13 am: Twice in a week Jerry. Your running hot matey!!!
Send some of your energy my way please.

Stephen
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: koi1 on January 01, 2007, 06:15:19 am: I hate to be the party pooper,

But, the bottom line is that condoms should be used at all times. For an HIV+ person to be having unprotected sex and not disclosing is criminal. You are also opening yourself up to more infections that could be devastating if you already have HIV. Coinfection with a drug resistant HIV strain is possible, as is Hep B and C, both raise the probability of liver cancer, and complicate treatment. I would hate to think that the person who infected me knew his status. So I won't even think about that.

People still die of AIDS folks, giving it to someone could potentially kill them, regardless of the advances.

rob
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 11:10:44 am: Quote from: fearless on January 01, 2007, 01:11:13 am
Twice in a week Jerry. Your running hot matey!!!
Send some of your energy my way please.

Stephen
Sending Energy via Federal Express.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Razorbill on January 01, 2007, 11:57:28 am: I ended my week similarly Jerry. Nice boost into the new year. Work restarts tomorrow - back to reality, and the ongoing search for a partner - that's a heck of a lot harder to do than getting laid.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: Cliff on January 01, 2007, 11:59:40 am: Quote from: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 12:23:00 am
No condoms were used and damnint I loved it all. Saturday I found someone else that was positive though and that was even better than the first one. I had to end the 2006 year and start fresh for the new year.
Please be careful Jerry. You're an adult so I won't lecture you. However, you are venturing into legal issues and given your participation in the forums, I suggest you be careful in deciding what you disclose in public. Stick to positive folks (barebacking that is). It just makes life easier (and you don't have to worry about not sleeping at night)! ;)
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 12:23:49 pm: Understand Cliff I have decided to just stick with positive guys from here on out and yes they will know that I have AIDS.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Cliff on January 01, 2007, 12:36:42 pm: Quote from: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 12:23:49 pm
Understand Cliff I have decided to just stick with positive guys from here on out and yes they will know that I have AIDS.
Good for you! Life is about having fun and enjoying it. So you won't get no complaints from me. But sometimes it's just better avoiding the mine-fields, especially this day and age when people (neggies) are quick to use the law to avoid any personal responsibility.

Cliff
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: blondbeauty on January 01, 2007, 01:06:08 pm: Well...Jerry only said there were no condoms, but he did not say anything about barebacking or any other risky behaviour...so maybe condoms were not needed.
Anyway...everybody is responsible for their own sexual health (except in rape cases). I always use protection not only to protect others, but to protect myself from other STD. Being HIV+ does not mean you are a second class human being or you don´t care about what happens to you. I look after myself better than ever before.
Some neggies think we have nothing to loose and that is not true.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 01, 2007, 02:47:43 pm: Jerry,

I second what some of the others here have said, just be careful... Damn man you've been pimpin'.

Thomas
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Queen Tokelove on January 01, 2007, 03:35:34 pm: Geez! I am hoping this thread does not take a turn for the worse. Congrats on getting laid, Jerry X 2. I will not preach to you about not wearing a condom, you are grown and you know the deal. I am not here to pass judgment. I am wondering though, are you going to continue sex w/o condoms and is it going to be with the person(s) you been with already? I would make some type of contract with your partners if you are going to be raw dogging. I would hate to see something come back and bite you in the ass.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Grinch on January 01, 2007, 07:35:45 pm: I can't believe people are honestly going to stand by and say "Oh good for you, great job." You had unprotected sex and didn't tell the guy.
"Hell it's his responsibility to ask and use a condom."
That's just a load of garbage. Take some damn responsibility for your own actions.
You knowingly acted in a manner that may well condemn someone to this crappy life we all live because you are selfish and irresponsible.
Yeah the guy should have worn a condom because you might have been poz, but you damn sure should have because you know full well you are poz.

Yeah you getting your rocks of sure is worth exposing someone to a deadly virus. Good job, go brag about it some more.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Ann on January 01, 2007, 09:30:31 pm: May I please remind people that this subject can be discussed without resorting to name calling. Grinch, I'm speaking to you in particular, and everyone in general.

By all means voice your opinion, just don't name-call or get abusive. This is an important subject that needs to be discussed in an adult way.

Thank you, everyone, for your cooperation.

Ann
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Jerry71 on January 01, 2007, 10:50:00 pm: The Reason I started this thread was to say I had sex with someone and I did not have safe sex with them. Mostly all we did was get each other off no intercourse was preformed that night. Day two was with a friend of mine who is HIV+ and yes we had sexual intercourse. So to state my point I usually don't have sex with non positive people but with the way things are out there in this day and time who knows who is positive and who is not. That is just a chance everyone has to take. My bad if some of you took what I said the wrong way at first but I was just expressing the way I felt with finally being with someone again. Keep the peace. Jerry :-*
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 02, 2007, 12:41:56 am: Quote from: Grinch on January 01, 2007, 07:35:45 pm

You knowingly acted in a manner that may well condemn someone to this crappy life we all live because you are selfish and irresponsible.
.

It is if we make it that way.. Grinch lighten up bromie seriously. We do not and may never know all the details here. It's wasted energy to get this upset. I've shared some great PM's with you and gather your life is not at all crappy. You've even told me to keep my chin up and I have... Why the negativity all the time when it comes to..... Come on man your better than this, I have the PM's to prove it.

PS Just noticed Jerry came in and gave a little more detail after I posted... Even if he had sex with the guy we will never know what the other guys status was and be sure it was not the other guys first unprotected sex or his last.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Queen Tokelove on January 02, 2007, 01:28:23 am: Quote from: skeebo1969 on January 02, 2007, 12:41:56 am
It is if we make it that way.. Grinch lighten up bromie seriously. We do not and may never know all the details here. It's wasted energy to get this upset. I've shared some great PM's with you and gather your life is not at all crappy. You've even told me to keep my chin up and I have... Why the negativity all the time when it comes to..... Come on man your better than this, I have the PM's to prove it.

PS Just noticed Jerry came in and gave a little more detail after I posted... Even if he had sex with the guy we will never know what the other guys status was and be sure it was not the other guys first unprotected sex or his last.

IMO, what would be the point in shaking your finger at Jerry and his actions? The one guy should've been responsible his damn self so we know he was thinking with the wrong head. The other guy being poz knew the risks and blew caution to the wind. As did Jerry and they had a great time. Bottomline, it was their choice, they made it and chose to deal with the consequences of their lustful actions, should there be any.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Grinch on January 02, 2007, 09:13:02 am: I shouldn't get so pissed about this but it drives me nuts when everyone wants to say "It's not my responsibility"
It is our responsibility.
I understand and agree that condoms prevent transmission. Not using one and not telling your partner that you are about to do something that could infect them is wrong. No amount of justifying your actions will change that.
I believe that is no different than being a denialist.
What I have a major problem is everyone jumping in and defending the actions of someone that does something wrong.
If we all take the attitude of the original sentence I took issue with "if was his own responsibility to ask about your status and protect himself" We've lost a big battle with regards to stopping the spread of this disease as well as public perception.
That sentence was what I took issue with. Just that sentence.

Skeebo you're right, I have a pretty good life because I choose to make it that way. I've had to give up a lot because of this damn disease though. You ask me why I get so upset about this subject. It's really simple.
We are responsible for our actions. Period.

We have a horrible image with the public. Don't believe me ask someone. We can help change that by our actions. It takes one case of "That bastard knew he had AIDS and infected me!" to get laws passed, bad headlines etc. If someone from the press were to read this thread what do you think the headline would read?

I promise you it wouldn't be: "AIDSMEDS member gets laid!"
Will we stop the spread of this disease by our actions? Probably not, but we can do our part. Deny it all you want but it IS our responsibility.

Bottom line is this. rights right...wrongs wrong.
Doing anything that could infect someone else is wrong. If that means you never again get to put your dick anywhere you please without you making sure you don't infect someone too bad.
That may be harsh but so is HIV/AIDS.

To anyone I personally offended I apologize. I don't really think many people here are bad people. At the same time we can't all just pat everyone on the back and say "It's all right, you can do anything you'd like, after all.....you're only human."
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Ann on January 02, 2007, 09:46:06 am: Jerry, if you didn't have penetrative sex, ie anal intercourse, then it doesn't matter if you used a condom or not. What you did WAS safer sex.

Grinch, thank you for dropping the name calling. Much appreciated.

Ann
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy
Post by: luckyluckylucky on January 02, 2007, 09:53:09 am: Quote from: aupointillimite on December 29, 2006, 09:22:30 pm
In a perfect world, I suppose we'd all disclose all the time.

The world's not perfect and neither are we.

Perfection is not at issue...the clap feels a whole lot worse a whole lot quicker than HIV.
Why take the chance?
My memories of the sixties/ seventies while having safe sex with myself have been much better than any recent encounters.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 02, 2007, 11:33:14 am: Grinch your points are well taken and received. My thinking on this subject has changed dramatically over the past year. If this person is negative he is just another example of how education through the media, health profession, etc.. is continuing to fail to get the message across to those not given our disease. Sadly all we have to do is visit our "Am I Infected" forum to get a reminder of this... it's but a click away. I am not sure how long ago you were, but just two years ago I was one of those (neggies) who just ignored the facts. While still bliss, ignorance is no excuse for them.

BTW... I think this discussion has hit home a great point to us all regardless and for that reason all opinions here are important.

Grinch still love ya man!

Thomas
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Grinch on January 02, 2007, 11:46:36 am: I can't go to the am I infected forum... I know I'd make a comment along the lines of "Is it painful to be that stupid?!" I just stay far away and everything is much better.
As far as when was I infected? I found out in early 04. I've been married and completely faithful for 11 years. Best guess is late 80's when I was doing some IV drugs, or one of the women between then and meeting my wife.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 02, 2007, 11:49:27 am: Ahhhh Grinch go have some fun and place your vote in the favorite position thread... Us breeders got to show we are sexually active also!
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Cliff on January 02, 2007, 11:51:04 am: Grinch,

I think you should reread this thread. You made some serious allegations, (everyone in this thread told Jerry he had no responsibility). I just reread this thread, (cause I didn't think that was the case at all), and didn't notice anyone tell him that he had no responsibility when it comes to sex. What I saw were folks providing real world advice that doesn't just deal with the extreme.

I saw lots of forum members informing Jerry of harm reduction activities, disclosure options, personal methods, etc. What people weren't doing, was beating Jerry up for being human (though this all turned out to be a nonevent, given his partner was never at risk). Beating someone up doesn't help.

Cliff

P.S.- My life is not crappy, and I don't appreciate you assuming/saying that everyone who has HIV has a crappy life.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Grinch on January 02, 2007, 12:24:53 pm: What I take issue with is the statement that was made and has been made in other threads. The statement was:
"if was his own responsibility to ask about your status and protect himself" This is what I take issue with. This is the prevailing message I took from the thread. I don't understand why so many very intelligent people insist on taking pieces of the whole statement and tearing it apart word by word to change the meaning of the whole statement.

Regarding the crappy life statement: Having aids does suck. A few folks have very little change in their lives for a time. How many are on permanent disability? How many take a boatload of pills with nasty side effects? This doesn't mean every aspect of every bodies life is crappy, it means on the whole living with aids sucks. I know you're smart enough to know what I meant.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Jerry71 on January 02, 2007, 01:41:20 pm: Yeah Grinch having AIDS does suck but some people all they want to dwell with is the fact they have AIDS and that it is the end of the world for them. I see it as I might have HIV but HIV does not and will not take control of my life. Just because we have AIDS does not mean we should give up on living we need to live each day like everyone else does. Just keep the peace and move on and let it pass.
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: Ann on January 02, 2007, 02:18:56 pm: The main thing here that I take issue with (and I'm speaking personally, not as a mod, just want to make that clear) is the idea of asking a person their status. What a crock! Too many people ASSUME they are negative. Occasionally, people LIE. People should be taking responsibility for themselves and using condoms or not having penetrative sex if they are with someone whose status they don't know.

I acquired my infection while in a relationship. I knew he wasn't being monogamous and I knew I was risking STIs by not insisting on condom use. But, stupid me, I thought the worst he could bring home to me was chlamydia. Hiv never occurred to me - and partly because he had been getting tested every three months, for years, while he was working as an aide worker in the Darfur area of Sudan. He stopped getting tested when he quit that job, and acquired his own infection in the UK. Funny old life, eh?

I take full responsibility for my infection. I didn't look out for myself and that's nobody's fault but mine. I'm sure I'd feel the same way if I were infected after a careless, condomless one night stand - regardless if that person disclosed their status or not.

If I were still in a position to enjoy the occasional one night stand, I would make sure condoms were used, I would make sure they were being used correctly (a correctly used condom rarely breaks) and I would have no problem not disclosing my status. There would be no reason to disclose in those circumstances.

Oh, and if the person I was with refused to use condoms, I would refuse penetrative sex and I wouldn't feel I had to tell the person why. No condom, no intercourse.

Ann
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: sweetasmeli on January 02, 2007, 02:30:27 pm: I for one am relieved that Jerry clarified things here about what happened. I must admit I was hopping around quite a lot about the issues raised in this thread last night, not knowing what to think, so thanks for the clarification, Jerry.

I do believe that as adults we are all responsible for our own sexual health. However as someone living with hiv, I believe - as someone with that extra vital bit of information - I have an extra bit of responsibility. Just my opinion.

As far as unprotected sex goes:
I for one could and would never engage in unprotected sex anymore - even of the one night stand variety. Yes, the other person may be being irresponsible in taking the risk, but I believe a hiv+ person is more irresponsible - not to mention reckless - by knowingly putting another human at risk. Again, just my opinion.

As for protected sex:
I have made the personal decision to not even engage in protected sex with someone now without disclosing first. I understand that that's not absolutely necessary but it's about what makes me comfortable. I would rather run the risk of being turned down rather than run the risk of a condom bursting and having the uncomfortable job of disclosing then...Just my personal choice.

Melia

(edited by request to remove personal information)
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: bocker3 on January 02, 2007, 02:39:41 pm: Interesting how the word "responsibility" causes such churn.......

Here is what I see are the key points around responsibility in this issue:

1. Does everyone have primary responsibility for his/her own well being (i.e. using condoms when having intercourse -- YES -- whether you are positive, negative or unknown). If you go from negative to positive, it is your responsibility (aside from rape, of course).

2. Does this mean that I have no responsibility as a positive person? Absolutely not!! In my mind, my biggest responsibility is to insure that MY VIRUS STOPS WITH ME. Just because someone else is OK with being "risky" doesn't give me license to neglect this responsibility. I have no desire to give this virus to anyone else -- even if they want it.

3. What about disclosure -- there probably is some "wiggle room" on an ethical level IF YOU USE CONDOMS. However, there isn't a whole lot of "wiggle room" on the legal level in the US (can't speak for other countries). Personally, I could not imagine not disclosing -- but that is me. It seems to me the primary reason for non-disclosure in "casual" settings is less about maintain privacy and more about maintaining the opportunity to get laid.

I know that some may disagree, so be it. I will try to keep an open mind, if someone can help me understand a rational way to get around #2 above.

This post is not directed at anyone, but at everyone. I think Ann is spot on about taking individuals out of this discussion. Although I do have my sense of right and wrong, I try (and often fail) to leave the judgement of individuals to a higher authority.

One last note -- I think some are being far too sensitive about Grinch's comment over how crappy life is with HIV. My life hasn't changed much since my diagnosis, aside from daily pills, far more doctor's appts, etc. I would not classify my life as crappy at all -- same job, same partner, same daughter, same grandkids, etc, etc. I WOULD, however, classify having HIV as crappy -- anything that I have, but would give up in heartbeat if I had the chance, certainly falls into the "crappy" category in my mind!!

Mike
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy! But Damn it was good!
Post by: Cliff on January 02, 2007, 03:50:14 pm: Quote from: sweetasmeli on January 02, 2007, 02:30:27 pm
Cliff, I have to respond to your following comment:
Speaking as an ex "neggie" now involved in pursuing police/court proceedings against my ex, I felt I had to speak out here. You know my history and I think you know that my action against my ex is not in any way about avoiding personal responsibility. I realise what you were getting at with what you said here but I just wanted to say either be aware when you are making such sweeping statements that there are more often than not exceptions to every scenario. Or perhaps be more specific with exactly what you mean. Just saying...
Melia,

Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, I do know your history and the criminal case you are pursuing. And I know of another member here who is doing the same (civil case). I agree with pursuing cases such as these (both situations), so my sweeping statements were overreaching and not thought-out. Thanks for pointing it out.

What I meant to say was that some guys (and gals) expect people who are HIV to always disclose (or even avoid sexual contact) and they mistakenly believe that because there is a law governing this area, they have nothing to fear. The law doesn't take away personal responsibility to engage in protected sex.

Cliff
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: DancerBoy on January 02, 2007, 05:13:25 pm: Quote from: Grinch on January 02, 2007, 12:24:53 pm
This doesn't mean every aspect of every bodies life is crappy, it means on the whole living with aids sucks.

I know everyone is gonna boo me for saying this, but Living with AIDS doesn't suck... If you're LIVING.
It's dying from AIDS that sucks.
I'm just saying...
-D
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 02, 2007, 11:10:31 pm: Quote from: DancerBoy on January 02, 2007, 05:13:25 pm
I know everyone is gonna boo me for saying this, but Living with AIDS doesn't suck... If you're LIVING.
It's dying from AIDS that sucks.
I'm just saying...
-D

I don't think it sucks at all. It's definitely caused me to wake up and enjoy life on a different level than before. I still remember last year when I was Baker Acted leaving the crisis center, some woman gave me a look like I was the scum of the earth. Not due to HIV, but because I was barefoot and disheveled looking in the middle of Downtown Miami... I knew then changes needed to be made. It's been a long, hard road but I am happy with the results so far.

Thomas
Title: Re: I've been a bad boy!
Post by: scotttt on January 03, 2007, 07:05:57 pm: Just my two cents.

1) If you are HIV positive and you don't know for a fact that your partner is also HIV positive use a condom for ANAL or VAGINAL sex.

2) As far as oral sex goes, I really think the odds of transmitting the virus that way are slim to none. The UCSF study demonstrated it and my own anecdotal experience has convinced me as I have had oral sex (giving and yes swallowing) countless times to people later found out to be HIV positive at the time.

I agree, it is everyone's duty to take care of their own sexual health. However, wouldn't it be nice if we tried to take the high road and protect those who aren't protecting themselves.

Remember, not everyone entering into a sexual encounter is doing so fully aware of the consequences. Some people are impaired by drugs and alcohol. Some people are severely depressed and at that moment in time care very little about what happens to them and to their health. Some people are severely mentally ill, and not culpable for the decisions they are making (yes, severely mentally ill people have sex too). And let's face it, some people are not fully aware of what constitutes risky behavior. I still know many people who think that "topping" poses no risk, and that as long as you pull out before ejaculation, you are having "safe" sex.

In a perfect world where every person is entering into a sexual encounter with a clear mind, an educated frame of reference regarding modes of transmission, and the emotional capacity to make an informed decision, we wouldn't have to watch their backs as well as our own.

This "It's everyone's responsibility for his or her own sexual health" is great in a perfect world as I said before. But it just isn't that simple.

I would hate to think that those of us who know the real suffering this illness brings will not take an "everyman/woman for him/herself attitude".

I know it is a dog eat dog world, but I think we can put kindness first and look out for the interests of others. No orgasm is worth putting another person's health at risk.