Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2021, 09:25:37 am

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 36190
  • Latest: Hiro77
Stats
  • Total Posts: 762615
  • Total Topics: 64790
  • Online Today: 134
  • Online Ever: 5484
  • (June 18, 2021, 11:15:29 pm)
Users Online
Users: 3
Guests: 100
Total: 103

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Do I Have HIV?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: A balanced diet might not be enough.  (Read 3893 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
A balanced diet might not be enough.
« on: December 02, 2020, 01:23:00 am »
I thought I would share this link for folks, especially for those who have had an aids diagnose or those like myself who became positive in the late 80s and did not start on medications until more than a decade later.

In a nutshell the link basically states that seventy diets were computer analyzed from the menu of athletes or sedentary subjects seeking to improve the quality of micronutrient intake from food choices. All of these dietary analyses fell short of the recommended 100% RDA micronutrient level from food alone.

In other words, over 70 diets were analyzed from individuals actively trying to improve their nutritional intake. And not a single one even achieved the minimum micronutrient suggested by the ADA!

This is the link:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129155/
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 10:58:01 am by Jim Allen »

Offline Almost2late

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,427
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2020, 04:35:14 am »
And you forgot mention that the site goes on and on with data and statistics (I got dizzy reading all that) it then leads you to another link to sell something, I assume some nutritional supplements? I don't know cause I got cold feet, it sort of felt like spam.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so suspicious but you could of mentioned that this link is an advertisement for some product.
Diagnosed - Feb.2014 Cd4 13, at 2.8%
Recent - Sept 2021 Cd4 284 at 17.8%

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,962
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2020, 07:48:36 am »
 
And you forgot mention that the site goes on and on with data and statistics (I got dizzy reading all that)
70 diets were analyzed but only 20 provided enough info for the study. the other data was based on the author's anecdotal evidence from 150-200 students who self-reported their diets.


I've lived with HIV for 35 years (coming up on 59 that means that 60% of my life I've been hiv+) drinking over 2 liters of Coke a day and eating a bag of chips (Utz's Malt Vinegar Kettle chips. sooo good!) every 3-4 days. Oh, and I LOVE candy. ;D ;D

Of course I also eat vegetables and meat every day (gotta balance out that coke, chips and candy). I'm not overweight and my blood work is very good. I do exercise regularly and definitely have a positive outlook on my life.

I don't doubt that obsessing over micronutrients may help some people stay healthy; but following basic healthy diet guidelines (https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary-guidelines) should do okay too.....even if coke, chips and candy aren't in the guidelines. LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2020, 09:02:47 am »
Sorry that I did not read entirely through the article which like you pointed out Almost2late which does have a dizzying amount of data and statistics and is a bit lengthy. Leatherman I am glad that you are one of the ones whose Activities of Daily Living abilities is adequate despite your very lengthy history. Despite all of the advances in the medications, there is still a small cohort of long term survivors like myself who did not start on medications until very late in disease progression and whose Activities of Daily Living abilities are low sometimes requiring a Home Health Aid. I am hoping that even one piece of information that I am able to share can somehow maybe enhance the quality of life for someone else. HAART and Micronutrients are the 2 primary agents that have been able to get me through all of this.

Offline Jim Allen

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 17,980
  • Twitter @JimAllenDublin
    • HIV Lessons
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2020, 10:55:07 am »
I don't know cause I got cold feet, it sort of felt like spam.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so suspicious but you could of mentioned that this link is an advertisement for some product.

That's because it is spam.

Behind the lengthy blog page, trying to sell services etc there is only one legit part and that's a single weak study from 2006.

I'm not an athlete myself, asides from Vitamin D deficiency I'm grand on nutrition.
That's just me.

@OP. I have updated your post with just a link to the 2006 item.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 11:04:22 am by Jim Allen »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2020, 11:19:09 am »
Thanks Jim for updating my post with the correct item from the link which makes it much less confusing and dizzying. Here is the link to another article that I would like to share about the importance of looking into making sure you are getting adequate micronutrient intake.
https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/5793275
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 11:48:16 am by Lorenzopier »

Offline Jim Allen

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 17,980
  • Twitter @JimAllenDublin
    • HIV Lessons
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2020, 01:24:39 pm »
I think it's a better link although with a pinch of salt.

Quote
"The authors are employed by DSM Nutritional Products, a manufacturer of vitamins and supplier to the food, dietary supplement, and pharmaceutical industries. "

Quote
The long-term consumption of poor dietary quantity (e.g., due to loss of appetite) or quality (e.g., restrictive, unbalanced, or low-nutrient dense diets [10,11]) increase the risk of poor nutritional status, particularly in individuals with increased needs or losses

On a serious note, there are many reasons for poor nutrition, poverty or low income being one of them. I can't imagine anyone reasonable would claim that poor nutrition is somehow healthy, it's a tad obvious like water is wet.

Best, Jim

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/malnutrition#:~:text=Poverty%20amplifies%20the%20risk%20of,of%20poverty%20and%20ill%2Dhealth.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK206908/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2806885/


HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2020, 01:33:46 pm »
I wholeheartedly agree Jim but for some of us it goes a lot deeper than having a properly optimized diet. If you are not the person actually experiencing it everything that I have been posting about can seem like just complete nonsense.

Offline Jim Allen

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 17,980
  • Twitter @JimAllenDublin
    • HIV Lessons
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2020, 01:48:19 pm »
I don't disagree, nobody so far has, there are many reasons for poor nutrition or diets that don't meet individuals nutritional needs.

As for the complete nonsense, I don't think anyone thinks that I certainly don't at least. The first link posted was junk and nonsense though, that's irrelevant to what you experienced or not.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:56:33 pm by Jim Allen »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 02:26:03 pm »
Ok..Got it.

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
  • 33 Years Poz through HAART & MICRONUTRIENTS
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2020, 02:59:04 pm »
I just know for me that the quality of life issues that I had faced were directly related to me not going on medications until 15 years after I was diagnosed. I had tried literally everything under the sun to manage these issues and the only thing aside from HAART that has worked for me is a complete and balanced micronutrient supplement program. The HAART basically brung the hiv viral load to under 200 copies and boosted the cd4s from under 200 to a present range of 500-600 and did restore energy levels quite significantly as well which I loved, but somehow despite all of that and having a very nutritious and balanced diet 24-7, life was still a struggle for me. The micronutrient supplements definitely brung me out of this struggle, although it was a long and laborious process just trying to learn how to properly balance them because of the complex nature of the micronutrient spectrum.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 03:13:17 pm by Lorenzopier »

Offline xrel0aded

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2020, 10:02:11 pm »
One word this article was completely
Missing was the word vegan. If everyone went on a whole food plant based diet, so many health issues could be mitigated and reversed.

Offline Jim Allen

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 17,980
  • Twitter @JimAllenDublin
    • HIV Lessons
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2020, 10:57:47 pm »
One word this article was completely
Missing was the word vegan. If everyone went on a whole food plant based diet, so many health issues could be mitigated and reversed.

Each to their own of course, personally, I would rather be dead first, no joke.

Anyhow, last few posts on the forum you seem to be pushing the vegan agenda, make sure to start including published peer-reviewed studies and links going forward. Thanks. The topic is diets, quality of micronutrient intake from food choices and not meeting 100% RDA.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 11:11:28 pm by Jim Allen »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline xrel0aded

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2020, 05:21:09 am »
That statement is absolutely dramatic, and offensive to all the dead flesh you choose to consume. I think extending your compassion to all of life and beginning to at least understand that you should honor the dead, ex-sentient being you're eating to fill your stomach will really bring about a vast and wonderful sense of humility. I see a lot of personal bias in here from older generations of HIV+ people, and frankly a lot of following the herd of what people like the AHA recommend without any sort of nutritional education and on top of that, shaming others who have decided to really verse themselves in optimizing their life. Health is a multi approach journey and not entirely a one size fits all, but 99.9% of people would be positively impacted hormonally, emotionally, physically, mentally, etc if they ate more plant based diets and elminated dairy and animals from their diets. What we eat becomes us. And what we eat is a big determining factor in our health outcomes. I'm more than willing to provide multiple peer reviewed articles as well as personal anecdotes regarding veganism on its own and in relation to chronic disease, I just feel as though you have already completely shut me down.

Offline xrel0aded

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2020, 05:32:11 am »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/89/5/1627S/4596952#110695953

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/

"Obesity

Several studies have shown that vegan diets are associated with a reduced incidence of obesity as they tend to include fewer trans-fats (which are found mainly in processed foods with partially hydrogenated fats), fewer saturated fats (which can also be found in fully hydrogenated vegetable oils), and more dietary fibre (Rizzo et al. 2013; ADA 2009, 1274; McEvoy and Woodside 2010, 84; Spencer et al. 2003; Davey et al. 2003; Haddad et al. 1999). Obesity is a known risk factor for a wide range of health conditions, including cardio-vascular disease, type 2 diabetes, some cancers, and dyslipidaemia (WCRF/AICR 2007, 374376). In addition, HIV patients may avoid or reduce lipodystrophy problems by adopting vegan diets (McCarty 2003b). In recent years, many companies in the dairy industry have responded to the challenges associated with rising rates of obesity by producing and promoting low fat alternatives. In spite of the reduction in fat, these products still contain large amounts of calories that are turned into fatty tissues if they are surplus to human energy requirements, thus contributing to increases in weight (Lanou 2009)."

Look up: Rip Essylstyn
Dr. Ellesworth Wareham
Dr. Williams
T. Colin Campbell

Offline Mindless

  • Member
  • Posts: 347
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2020, 06:27:43 am »
Hi,

I have no intention to argue on this matter, as I know it can easily get very "ideological", so to speak.

I think the type of diet is a personal choice mainly based on culture and personal taste. I'm an omnivore, I eat almost anything. May I be more prone to obesity because of that? Maybe. Can I control that adjusting calories intake and exercising? In most cases, yes.

You like veganism, good for you!  :) Honestly, I didn't read through all the articles you posted, as I'm not currently interested in changing my diet. Anyways, I think that supporting your ideas with solid scientific background can only be a very good thing to do.

Hugs

Offline Jim Allen

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 17,980
  • Twitter @JimAllenDublin
    • HIV Lessons
Re: A balanced diet might not be enough.
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2020, 07:43:42 am »
@xrel0aded

Not sure what obesity has to do with the topic micronutrient intake from food choices and not meeting 100% RDA or at the very least you are not making the link clear.

So stick to the topic or don't post here and open your own thread on obesity and include peer-reviewed links if obesity and veganism or vegan health and HIV is something that interests you and you wish to discuss.  I can even split the post for you from this thread to get you started, just PM me.

Side note:

You are offended that I would rather move to the grave than stick to a vegan diet, that's fine you're fully entitled to feel offended. I feel that you are offensive and dramatic as well, not much I can do about it but I am not going to make this personal.

Our options for being offended are the same. Report it or ignore it. I normally opt to bite my tongue and ignore it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 08:23:38 am by Jim Allen »
HIV 101 - Everything you need to know
HIV 101
Read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
Read about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
Read about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2021 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.