SIDE EFFECTED VS NOT SIDE EFFECTED

[BlkRedBonenla]

I've noticed this mostly on the internet dating scene. A guy will have a picture posted of himself, which turns out to be BEFORE to started meds or before those meds began to affect his appearance.

While I think this is something gay men should talk about - what is a an honest pic? - that is not my immediate question.

Rather, how long does it take on average for meds to have that effect on the body? Are there some meds that effect us more? Are there ways to avoid being affected at all???

Obviously I want no internal nor external side effects, but this query is mostly about EXTERNAL effects.

When my doctor and I were negotiating which med would be best for me one of my requirements was minimal side effects, inside our out. I have been on ATRIPLA for about 9 months, no problems.

I hope all are well,
Lowell

[allopathicholistic]

Hi Lowell. Kudos to anyone who can answer those tough questions! I certainly don't know, but my friend is newly diagnosed and not on meds and he's been taking trapeeze lessons (yeah, flying through the air and all that) for the past 6 weeks. The bich is starting to look great with new muscle tone and all that. I think part of it's because of all that blood circulation he's getting. My instinct says he's gonna look marvelous for years to come. Good on him I guess but I have to say I'm a little envious 

[BlkRedBonenla]

Hi Lowell. Kudos to anyone who can answer those tough questions! I certainly don't know, but my friend is newly diagnosed and not on meds and he's been taking trapeeze lessons (yeah, flying through the air and all that) for the past 6 weeks. The bich is starting to look great with new muscle tone and all that. I think part of it's because of all that blood circulation he's getting. My instinct says he's gonna look marvelous for years to come. Good on him I guess but I have to say I'm a little envious 

Well .. trapeeze lessons is not in my future, but my bias tells me an active lifestyle, good diet [did you all see the report out of the UK linking red meat to cancer, supposedly the most comprehensive study to date: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2779937.ece?EMC-Bltn] will yield better health and - to my concern - better appearance. But exercise does not make us superman, invicible to toxic medications over some duration of time.

I would THINK that someone would have some stats on this, which population is likely to experience side effects with certain drugs [my doctor said that Blacks tended to have adverse side effects to early dosing of AZT, for example], and what characteristics - genetic and social - those who experienced fewer side effects and physical effects.

[Smoothstone]

For over 10 years I have been on the combination of viracept, rescriptor, and ziagen. No body change side effects for me, a white male, 60. I ended up with that combination after experiencing problems with other meds.If I noticed body changes I switched. This decision process took a trial period of how the drugs made me feel, and also how I perceived they were effecting my appearance. I talking about subtle changes, not dramatic.  I figured that if noticed some body shape changes early on, I'm talking about an observation period of several weeks to a month, then the changes would only get more noticeable over time. That was guess work. At one point I stopped meds because of side effects and without any meds my t cells were going downward for about 5 months. Bottomed out at 26 t cells.  I knew ziagen was in the pipeline so I held off on starting the other two drugs rescriptor and viracept until I could do all three together. Luckily, it was a, surprisingly, side effect free combo....with the exception of diarrhea from the viracept.. which tapered off overtime.  I know others where the diarrhea didn't taper off and they stopped viracept because of the diarrhea issue.

 Individual differences come into play with some folks having problems with a drug and for others its easy, side effect free. That is the guess work, exploration work for each of us.
 
     I have no tolerance for azt at any dose, even 100 mg a day wrecks me. achy and nausea.
     With D4T I noticed peripheral neuropathy in my feet but thought I would get used to the drug and it would go away over time...the "tough it out" strategy...error on my part...the tingling in my feet got worse overtime...it would have been better to have reduced dose or stop much earlier. I mentioned the problem to my doc but he reinforced the "tough it out" approach...of course we were all trying a new drug and didn't have the benefit of collective experience and knowledge. My doc did not also experience the tingling so it was easy for him to be dismissive about it.
     Good luck in your exploration. Hank 
     

[Smoothstone]

Basic rule: always report side effects to your doc and check in about if and how to stop or switch meds. Hank

[BlkRedBonenla]

For over 10 years I have been on the combination of viracept, rescriptor, and ziagen. No body change side effects for me, a white male, 60. I ended up with that combination after experiencing problems with other meds.If I noticed body changes I switched. This decision process took a trial period of how the drugs made me feel, and also how I perceived they were effecting my appearance. I talking about subtle changes, not dramatic.  I figured that if noticed some body shape changes early on, I'm talking about an observation period of several weeks to a month, then the changes would only get more noticeable over time. That was guess work ...

Thanks, Hank ... so I'm wondering as part of my question: do you think other people aren't as attentive to their appearance; willing to give up "appearances" for what they have been told is "health," or by posting these pictures of themselves in a former visage they just don't notice the sometimes radical changes that take place??

I KNOW this part of my question is full of problems and may not be answerable .. and maybe a question better asked in a different forum all together. But we talk a lot about the medical side effects, less about the psychological impact of being young and told you have an INCURABLE disease, and nothing at all about facing the world, living.

[dgr20002]

You may never have any effects. And they do not happen overnight.  There are certain drugs that have more of an effect than others. Crixivan is known to cause facial wasting, veiny legs and arms etc. I don't even know if it is prescribed much anymore since there are so many other drugs to choose from.

While some guys might deliberately put the best picture they have on the internet, the question can always be asked if it is recent or if he has others. I ran a picture on gay.com for a few years that was good. I was only two years old and I didnt think I looked any different. But I may look a little different each day. Some better than others. Guys that have pictures that are 5 years old or so are really just trying to represent themselves in what they feel is the best light. I imagine that's sort of understood. It's the internet. You never really know who you are chatting with.

Good questions though....

David

[bimazek]

many huge big issues brought up by this great post and question,   sexual addiction and love addiction and sex compulsion are rampant on the internet gay sites, and men treating men as objects without any care for emotional side of people, so this make pictures have this huge importance instead of inner self life

anyway

i have seen very small almost unnoticeable changes in the faces of guys on combos that are not suppose to have big effects, i know they are poz and i know they have been on meds for a year, and i love them but i see a difference i think that worse case... there are some changes, there are tons of new good things that wont have any side effects like this coming out in 3-5-7 years   things like RNAi, gene therapy, vaccines, mutation enhancers, etc, so even if there is some thin ness to the face eventually maybe we can gain it back when new better meds come out


i

[Miss Philicia]

Yeah.  You an find a lot of that on sites like BigMuscle.com...as well as some deception with the photographs.  Heck, some guys are even deceptive about their true HIV status on there.

That's much more appalling than a lipo-queen using an old photograph though, don't you think?

[thunter34]

At one point I stopped meds because of side effects and without any meds my t cells were going downward for about 5 months. Bottomed out at 26 t cells.  I knew ziagen was in the pipeline so I held off on starting the other two drugs rescriptor and viracept until I could do all three together.

EEEK and EGAD !!

Honey, I'd take a weathered face over a pretty coffin any day. 

[Miss Philicia]

Agreed.  I don't understand this outlook really.  Do I want to be laid out in a funeral parlor or do I want some lipo?  Anyway, that was the choice for years.  I don't see that so much as the choice RIGHT NOW with more improved meds available.  One must keep in mind that the large majority of lipo you may encounter in other HIV infected individuals are the delayed result of meds used in the 1990's.

I also find it rather interesting that there are so many on this board who complain about discrimination on on-line internet sites when they list their status as HIV-positive, yet they're willing to be somewhat discriminatory to someone with lipo, which I guess is why someone in that situation would use an old picture or perhaps one that doesn't show it to such an extreme.  Never mind that some then turn around and lament how gay society is so appearance oriented and addicted to sex -- the same people who often seem to be the ones hiring hookers and spending hours hooking up.

There are all sorts of levels of hypocrisy with that, but I digress.

[frenchpat]

Rather, how long does it take on average for meds to have that effect on the body? Are there some meds that effect us more? Are there ways to avoid being affected at all???

Obviously I want no internal nor external side effects, but this query is mostly about EXTERNAL effects.
Lowell

Hi Lowell,

firstly, having never dated over the internet or seen such a site I will not address your first question, I am simply not qualified; but I trust this place is home to a few specialist  who can answer that.

When it comes to side effects, and more precisely effects that show on your body, like lipodistrophy, I imagine Philly's right. But I would like to say that not all of those who are affected by lipo had to wait a long time into their infection or into their haart therapy to witness the changes. 2 years is all it took for me. Some have had lipo and are still not on meds.

I am not trying to paint a bleak picture here but just making you aware that it does happen and it does happen to people with a background of a healthy lifestyle with plenty of physical activity. I have a hunch that it is all down to an individual's susceptibility to certain substances and/or hiv itself.

Of course we are all worried about side effects and want to avoid them as much as possible, but your remark about "external" side effects makes me want to say this:
As much as I dislike my lipo, as much as I would love to have my fat back, I'd rather try to be at peace with a changing body image and concentrate on keeping my heart, liver and pancreas in great shape. I may not win a beauty contest with those but I know what is more important in making my stay on this planet a lengthy one.

...there are some changes, there are tons of new good things that wont have any side effects like this coming out in 3-5-7 years  ...

Biz, although I am quite hopeful that in the future there will be better, less toxic, more efficient medicines for people with Hiv, I also think that no amount of enthusiasm for science allows you to affirm what I quoted above.

Long term side effects are simply impossible to predict when one deals with molecules never used before against a virus that we still don't know everything about, and certainly not in the environment that is the human body, whose subtle workings we are far from having fully understood.

Hope this helps,

Pat


PS: pet peeve: wouldn't it be lovely if the spell checker recognized terms such as lipodistrophy and haart? It does recognize dildo...