Hiv and stigma

[Realist]

Stigma, alive and well.

http://perezhilton.com/2010-10-02-korean_mothers_form_union_to_protest_gay_storyline_on_tv_drama_life_is_beautiful

[Granny60]

A resource guide would be extremely helpful, even for those of use that have had to deal with this for a long time. We  recently completed a survey here in Missouri and the most responses to the question what  can case management do that would help you the most was  people writing in that we need a resource guide  to assistance programs and some explanation how these programs work.  Our local case manager has asked several of us to write a guide. It would help if we had a copy of HER handbook,  then we could add whatever sources we have found and edit it into an easy to understand format. Most of us in rural areas are on our own navigating programs due to a high case load to case manager ratio,  long distance to resources, and a lazy ass attitude by some caseworkers who will actually tell you that you need to find your own help so you will develop skills enough to be self sufficient. When you are newly diagnosed, it is often a traumatic experience that many are ill prepared for, then add on top of it,  being tossed into a tornadic  whirlwind of miss information, no information, don't give a shit attitudes, and  program cross compliances can drive you into a hole that takes years to climb out of.

[weasel]

     Living in a very small  Ozark Mountain  Enclave'   ,   I WAS  OUTED BY THE HEALTH DEPT .

   Things have NOT been the same !

   These people are ignorant hateful  Bitches !   Yes I say   Bitches cause the women are the ones

     with the hangups about HIV / AIDS  !   

     Most of the men  Do NOT  realize I am   the HIV   person they  ALL  HEARD ABOUT  .

      I can NOT even go to the Garden Center without being treated like a peace of shit !

      This topic  really hits a nerve !

       I have to worry about some  FOOL  burning our home down 

       The ignorant woman at the gas station asked IF SHE WERE GOING TO GET AIDS FROM MY

         MONEY          ,  WHAT A FOOL !


         I was thrown out of RYAN WHITE for being a whistle blower !

        All I can say is it is DANGEROUS  to disclose ,and HAVING THE HEALTH DEPT. DO IT FOR YOU IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS !

 I AM STILL PISSED !
                                                      signed , afraid for my loved one and home , Carl
       

[Poz Brit]

Personally, I don't do stigma, if someone is not happy with me in there presence, thats there problem. if they choose ignorance, again thats there problem.
 My virus and I go and do as we please, if there is a concern then keep away from me. they can wag a finger mumble to each other thats up to them. as I said, "not my problem". their ignorance could lead them in to my world.
 After all, i'm hetro, I got it. it's a human virus not specific to one group/gender, it's an open club, open to all, the joining fee is a bit high, perhaps afforded by the ignorant, but hey, met so many lovely people from all walks of life, all with this common cause.
There again I,m in the UK, most here are excepting, in my experience.
   

[midland moe]

There is one support group at the AOC in my city...positively straight...but it meets at like 3 pm on a weekday so im at work. I was diagnosed in '08 and my knowledge of HIV was almost nil...if you asked me if Id date a poz woman (if i wasnt married) back then Id have said NO, or maybe she better be a 10+ rich  blind nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store with HIV but even then maybe not...

I read somewhere a survey of women in america asked if they would consider dating someone who is HIV+ and 95% said no. Facing being single again for the first time in 10 years, 15 really, and first time ever being single and HIV+ Id say the stigma is enormous...

My looks alone thinned the potential dating pool before this 19 out of 20 right off the top....

stigma. alone.

[RapidRod]

Never have had a problem with being gay or having HIV/AIDS here in redneckville.

[Matty the Damned]

Never have had a problem with being gay or having HIV/AIDS here in redneckville.

Well Farmer John, maybe you should try telling them you're a fairy with butt flu and see how things go from there.

MtD

[RapidRod]

Well Farmer John, maybe you should try telling them you're a fairy with butt flu and see how things go from there.

MtD

Matty it's common knowledge around here that I have AIDS it isn't something you can hide plus doing discussions in schools makes it that much more public.

[Matty the Damned]

I'm sure you're the talk of Walton's Mountain, Roddles.

MtD

[RapidRod]

I'm sure you're the talk of Walton's Mountain, Roddles.

MtD

Hell I was the talk before people knew I was gay let alone having AIDS. Living where you know everyone and everyone knows you does have it's advantages. 

[leatherman]

Never have had a problem with being gay or having HIV/AIDS here in redneckville.

I didn't have any issues in Ohio either. I didn't even have problems with any of the hospital staff (in the Catholic hospital) when my partner was gravely ill.

And I've been incredibly, and pleasantly, surprised here in South Carolina. I've been manning the exhibition booth my ASO sponsors a bunch this summer, and we've been going into a lot of churches (of all persuasions) lately (along with a ton of city and county fairs and festivals). Not only are the people incredibly polite when I chat about my own situation (although I do have to disabuse them of referring to me as an "AIDS victim") ; but they're reasonable enough to understand why I'm passing out condoms inside their churches.

[Granny60]

Dearest Carl,  I hope things get better. You are always welcome here. We  don't have an HSI checkbook,  but we are friendly people and have lots of fun. See ya soon, I hope!

[Granny60]

Carl, start spreading the rumor that you recently found out that your place was a former  witch burial ground in the 1800's and is haunted! Lot'sof strange creepy things are happening.  Nobody will come around.  forget the nursery. I will bring you some purple cone flowers  (echinacea) and a tulip poplar tree in 4(?) weeks. Sharpen your shovel  or pick.

[Poz Brit]

Some times, well, it seems to me that stigma is manly perpetuated be the institutions set up to help those with HIV also the ones suffering this virus, as many seem to see it as a way to demonstrate Dramatic Royalty.

Stigma is ignorance. Do you really want to know ignorant people? My self I don't so I don,t hide behind a vial of secrecy and untruths that help breed ignorance and stigma, (but then this is the UK, we just get on with what life throws our way) Here in the UK we have a lot of African People talk to them about HIV, it's not stigma, it's the way of life, you got it so you got to live with it.

I probably know most of us HIV'ers in this city as we all go to the same clinic. I would bet money the majority HIV+'s have HIV- partners. weird that?

If we as Sufferers can,t educate the HIV un-educated who is going to? can it be left to HIV Neg's. do they really know HIV like we do? will they dispel the myth? are they able to tell it how it really is?
There is nothing like the old words, Horse and Mouth.     

[Realist]

I probably know most of us HIV'ers in this city as we all go to the same clinic.

Which city is that?

[Poz Brit]

Sorry I wish to keep that information private.

[Poz Brit]

Leatherman. I am so pleased you find it the way you describe. I do think society is gaining acceptance of HIV/AIDS. we have to look to the future, not the dark early days of GRID. It's not a gay virus, it is a human virus no one sect owns it. It's still spreading and will do, mainly through ignorance and it can't possibly happen to me attitude.
 It has been said if every one used condoms we would see the end of transmission in a few years, unfortunately every one never will. Mavericks still exist.
 I do believe that there is a lot of HIV+ that enjoy their status and need the label. with out it they are just mr/miss/mrs/ms normal, and god help their day when there is a cure?
I commend you for your stance by taking HIV into society and putting yourself on the line. I wish more were like you. instead of the bleater's that pump the same rhetoric of how no one is doing anything for them and woo me.   

[jkinatl2]

 I do believe that there is a lot of HIV+ that enjoy their status and need the label. with out it they are just mr/miss/mrs/ms normal, and god help their day when there is a cure?

Wow.

[leatherman]

Leatherman. I am so pleased you find it the way you describe.

to be honest when I came out, in North Carolina, back in 1982 I never came across much homophobia either besides a few muttered "faggots" from some rednecks in store lines; and of course, from the Baptists telling me I was going to hell. LOL However, since none of those jerks has ever paid my bills, I've never cared what the hell they thought about me anyway. LOL

Now 2 decades have gone by and there's been progress. Why now even my classmates from my Christian (fundamental Baptist) high school are asking me to show up this upcoming weekend for our 30th year class reunion, which I've thought was pleasantly amazing of them. We've been chatting through Facebook and I've made no bones about being gay, having AIDS, losing two partners nor about all the volunteer work that I've been doing for my ASO.

now, I do receive a little bit of odd vibes when I chat with people sometimes. The other day I had to disabuse the high school media student that interviewed me for their student-produced television channel of the notion that I was an "AIDS victim" (maybe when I was nearly dying of PCP LOL but not nowadays). And sometimes these church people I meet, shake my hand too long and seem to give me too much sympathy like they might give to some dying cancer-patient. But those kinds of receptions are based on kindly ignorance, and with a little instruction, I help those people understand not only transmission vectors but just how well the meds can work when someone is treated in time, properly, and consistently (that's why continuing ADAP/access to meds is essential).

I also need to point out that the situation is a little different here in SC. With 73% of hiv cases being African-Americans and 29% being female, AIDS isn't a "gay white male" disease in this state; but it is a disease tied more closely to poverty than sexuality.

of course, I may just be lucky that I haven't crossed paths with the right bigoted asshole yet;
but I definitely believe an amount of being out and proud puts a lot of stigma/homophobia in it's place.

[Joe K]

I do believe that there is a lot of HIV+ that enjoy their status and need the label. with out it they are just mr/miss/mrs/ms normal, and god help their day when there is a cure?

Would you please explain what you mean by the above statement? Are you suggesting that there are poz folks, who actually enjoy being poz? That they need the label of being poz, to be complete? That anyone would dread the day a cure is found for HIV? Surely you cannot be serious?

[Poz Brit]

Yes I am serious. It is now there life, their social structure is built around their disease. Hiv is now the foundation that underpins that life. It happens with a lot of illnesses. With out it the benefit stops the care stops the support stops, and the sympathy stops. The later being the worst to loose.

We had two cases, who used HIV support services claiming to have HIV. Later stating they needed the sympathy and the support for  housing and were neg.
 
 Now, on the other hand. Are you trying to tell me that some don,t milk it, that they are genuinely concerned about some of the things they post on? Drama comes to mind, make a splash see how far the ripples go.

Here in the UK Lipodystrophy is next to unheard of for newly diagnosed due to modern day medication, but there are still some new arrivals bleating on about there unfounded worries, One fella I know wished he could get it, as he misguidedly thought it would help him loose weight, as he could not adhere to diets?
 
The fact of the matter is we are all not the same, also ignorance and stupidity doe's not cease after diagnosis, but Drama Queens live for ever.

[Ann]

PB, that's some chip you've got on your shoulder. Is that a side effect of one of your meds?

[Realist]

My self I don't so I don,t hide behind a vial of secrecy    

Sorry I wish to keep that information private.

Oh, ok.

[Matty the Damned]

Yes I am serious. It is now there life, their social structure is built around their disease. Hiv is now the foundation that underpins that life. It happens with a lot of illnesses. With out it the benefit stops the care stops the support stops, and the sympathy stops. The later being the worst to loose.

We had two cases, who used HIV support services claiming to have HIV. Later stating they needed the sympathy and the support for  housing and were neg.
 
 Now, on the other hand. Are you trying to tell me that some don,t milk it, that they are genuinely concerned about some of the things they post on? Drama comes to mind, make a splash see how far the ripples go.

Here in the UK Lipodystrophy is next to unheard of for newly diagnosed due to modern day medication, but there are still some new arrivals bleating on about there unfounded worries, One fella I know wished he could get it, as he misguidedly thought it would help him loose weight, as he could not adhere to diets?
 
The fact of the matter is we are all not the same, also ignorance and stupidity doe's not cease after diagnosis, but Drama Queens live for ever.

It's sad when folk end up like you.

MtD

[Poz Brit]

I am very sorry Ann, I did not realize that "some" meant "All". Some meaning, a few, a small number, and you can honestly say that in your vast experience of moderating this site this perception has never crossed your mind? it's a big world out here, anything goes.

my meds are fine, thank you. as for chip? well you see life one way I see it another. variety is good. 

[jkinatl2]

Once again, my instincts are correct. And those who ally with such a creature should be aware that they are, if not next, at least in line for the chopping block.

Wow. Just wow.

poz Brit, when someone claims that YOU are one of those you disparage, who will speak for you? An activist? A case worker? Someone who, I daresay, relies on HIV for a living?

Or will you be alone. With no secrets, except of course who and where you are.

Good luck with that. I reserve my support and sympathy and efforts for those who give the same to others without such hateful caveat.

[Poz Brit]

Thank you for your reply your most welcome. you may need to get out a bit, living in an insular world is no good for you. Not all people are wonderful there are crooks, cons, BSers in all walks of life and HIV is no different.
 Forums, I thought, were for airing ones views, I am so sorry that I did not realise that there was a common hyme sheet on this forum that must be adhered too.
 
I am also sorry for redirecting this thread on Stigma, perhaps this needs another thread?

Like it or not. I have not had any issues with stigma. apart from reading about it on here and listening at a few support groups and frankly the subject has a few dramatic comments, very tongue in cheek. 

[Poz Brit]

Oh, one other note to Mr Damned, what ever it is you are saying is fine by me. you have been on Ignore for many years now. After all that is what the button is for, to extinguish the churlish and annoying.

[Ann]

Forums, I thought, were for airing ones views,

They are and we did. You aired your thoughts and we aired ours. See how that works?

I am so sorry that I did not realise that there was a common hyme sheet on this forum that must be adhered too.

There isn't. That's part of what makes this forum a dynamic place for learning and growing - we can agree to disagree and maybe log out with a slightly different perspective than we had when we logged in.
 

Like it or not. I have not had any issues with stigma. apart from reading about it on here and listening at a few support groups and frankly the subject has a few dramatic comments, very tongue in cheek. 

I haven't had many issues with stigma either, which is surprising when you consider I live on the Isle of Man. They only legalised homosexuality a little over twenty years ago here. One of the more lenient punishments you could get was to be birched in public.

When I was first diagnosed I was terrified someone would set my house on fire, but it never happened. People here have been great. I'm very open about my status and have never had any problems where having a sex life is concerned either.

But you have to understand that we're lucky. Not everyone has had our experiences. Count your blessings and try to find compassion for others who haven't had as good an experience as you and I have had.

[BT65]

Poz Brit, I don't understand where all your hatred comes from.  Did you try to get some services, but got turned away because of being so healthy, so you're jealous that others who are not in such good health can maybe get those services you were denied?  I mean, it makes no sense, why you get so seethed up about others who are having a harder time than you.

[Poz Brit]

There seems to be a small cartel who see them selves as custodians of the myth perpetrated by them selves, the truth as they see it and are comfortable with. based on longevity of the virus and forum. Sheep on the front line yet wolves in the pack. One moves, all move, one attacks, all attack? Yet blinded by their provincial, illiberal world. The consequence of this being many looking for support go else wear, as are to nervous to stick a head above the parapet. There are many who need help and are embarrassed to seek out one on one help, so turn to boards such as this only to be shot down for the misunderstanding of the words used. English is a fascinating language with it's facets of double entendre, but one mind chooses and the pack moves in.
With regard to my previous posts there is a saying, “if the cap fits, wear it”, perhaps some are unhappy as they found they had head attire.
Perhaps the lack of expletives unnerves the said echelons of protagonists. Ahh do hear the distant rumble of the flock also whaling and howling, gather brothers tis time to attack.

[red_Dragon888]

Thank you for your reply your most welcome. you may need to get out a bit, living in an insular world is no good for you. Not all people are wonderful there are crooks, cons, BSers in all walks of life and HIV is no different.
 Forums, I thought, were for airing ones views, I am so sorry that I did not realise that there was a common hyme sheet on this forum that must be adhered too.
 
I am also sorry for redirecting this thread on Stigma, perhaps this needs another thread?

Like it or not. I have not had any issues with stigma. apart from reading about it on here and listening at a few support groups and frankly the subject has a few dramatic comments, very tongue in cheek. 

  OOOhhh  Get her!!!

[red_Dragon888]

Please, tells what you really think...

[Matty the Damned]

There seems to be a small cartel who see them selves as custodians of the myth perpetrated by them selves, the truth as they see it and are comfortable with. based on longevity of the virus and forum. Sheep on the front line yet wolves in the pack. One moves, all move, one attacks, all attack? Yet blinded by their provincial, illiberal world. The consequence of this being many looking for support go else wear, as are to nervous to stick a head above the parapet. There are many who need help and are embarrassed to seek out one on one help, so turn to boards such as this only to be shot down for the misunderstanding of the words used. English is a fascinating language with it's facets of double entendre, but one mind chooses and the pack moves in.
With regard to my previous posts there is a saying, “if the cap fits, wear it”, perhaps some are unhappy as they found they had head attire.
Perhaps the lack of expletives unnerves the said echelons of protagonists. Ahh do hear the distant rumble of the flock also whaling and howling, gather brothers tis time to attack.

Oh yawn. Why is it when someone gets called out for making fatuous and overtly incendiary comments in this place he immediately starts whining about some nefarious cabal conspiring to suppress his right to express himself?

Simply put it's humbug and cant of the most hypocritical sort.

You haven't been stopped from expressing your odious opinons. What you need to remember is that freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from response.

MtD

[red_Dragon888]

Oh yawn. Why is it when someone gets called out for making fatuous and overtly incendiary comments in this place he immediately starts whining about some nefarious cabal conspiring to suppress his right to express himself?

Simply put it's humbug and cant of the most hypocritical sort.

You haven't been stopped from expressing your odious opinons. What you need to remember is that freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from response.

MtD

Freedom of Speech... Can't live with it, Can't Kill it...

[Poz Brit]

Ann, may I apologise I posted before reading your reply that I thank you for and have taken your words on board.

 My statement I feel has been taken out of context and misconstrued, there ARE people I personally know who would rue the day a cure came. They are well, reasonably active doing nothing, all that would end, they would be forced to find employment and life as they know it and are comfortable with would change. I offer my apologize to any  whom may have misunderstood. But stand by what I have said.   

[Poz Brit]

Unfortunately Mr Damned never fails to be predictive, You Sir, carry the mantle of Drama to the core. Posts of many years ago moaning on about not wanting to take meds, what was that about, needed a little focus in your life? Then your boasting on how you can take your elicit drugs, that was a good roll model for the young wanting some support. You really deserve your crown. As previous post, if in was not for some one copy /pasting thrusting your innocuous statement in my face.  you are as said, on ignore, again churlish, vicious, bully boy, enough said good day.

[Ann]

PB, sure, there are people in every walk of life who abuse the system. They are not in the majority.

When someone comes into a place like this where you have quite a few people who are legitimately disabled and start complaining about the minority who abuse, you're bound to get some backs up. And that's because people who don't know their personal circumstance rant about people who are milking the system. It gets tiring having to defend yourself just because of the few selfish ones who manage to ruin it for everyone.

I don't know of anyone who is legitimately drawing Disability or Incapacity who would not rather be out earning a living wage. Living on benefits is hard work. Hard work in that you have to budget every penny and decide whether you will be hungry and warm or cold and fed.

And I suggest you stop trying to engage in flamewars with anyone here. Surely you can get your arguments across without name calling?

[Ann]

And by the way, you've been on this forum all morning. Are you sat at home "milking the system" yourself, off sick, at work pretending to work, or on holiday? Not a criticism, just an observation that made me curious.

[Poz Brit]

Yes Ann I have been on here all morning. When you are physically Disabled unable to walk have to use a wheelchair and your hands pack up so can't even push your self, feed your self and are reliant on others, life does get a tad tedious. This is not purely down to HIV more genetics.When some come across as milking the system with nothing but a need for sympathy or to make a trivial point , yes it gets my back up. I am OK and quietly content in my disability and HIV status, after all I started life with mobility problems was operated on, that provided rest-bite for a couple of decades but now back to minus square one. I work hard with the ability I have, helping disabled and HIV infected people who are trying to cope. Seeing able bodied, complaining that life is tough does not bode well when you are with some of these sorry souls. there are always more worse off than you. In this day and age HIV is a livable virus, but then there are the woe me's. any way enough said.   

[james3000]

Poz Brit

I do not know what makes you the Judge and Jury of people on disability !!
Maybe HIV is not the only problem a person has there are hidden problems that you cannot see, maybe they don't talk about it too you as they are afraid of your judgement.................
The fact is Hiv/Aids is still killing I just lost a friend this year because of mental issues, addiction and med taking.
Is it that you only see physical disability as valid ?

[joemutt]

Yes Ann I have been on here all morning. When you are physically Disabled unable to walk have to use a wheelchair and your hands pack up so can't even push your self, feed your self and are reliant on others, life does get a tad tedious. This is not purely down to HIV more genetics.When some come across as milking the system with nothing but a need for sympathy or to make a trivial point , yes it gets my back up. I am OK and quietly content in my disability and HIV status, after all I started life with mobility problems was operated on, that provided rest-bite for a couple of decades but now back to minus square one. I work hard with the ability I have, helping disabled and HIV infected people who are trying to cope. Seeing able bodied, complaining that life is tough does not bode well when you are with some of these sorry souls. there are always more worse off than you. In this day and age HIV is a livable virus, but then there are the woe me's. any way enough said.  

I think its highly unfair that you should kick at people who are worse off than you. Really. Their lives are hard enough already.

[Joe K]

There seems to be a small cartel who see them selves as custodians of the myth perpetrated by them selves, the truth as they see it and are comfortable with. based on longevity of the virus and forum. Sheep on the front line yet wolves in the pack. One moves, all move, one attacks, all attack? Yet blinded by their provincial, illiberal world. The consequence of this being many looking for support go else wear, as are to nervous to stick a head above the parapet. There are many who need help and are embarrassed to seek out one on one help, so turn to boards such as this only to be shot down for the misunderstanding of the words used. English is a fascinating language with it's facets of double entendre, but one mind chooses and the pack moves in.
With regard to my previous posts there is a saying, “if the cap fits, wear it”, perhaps some are unhappy as they found they had head attire.
Perhaps the lack of expletives unnerves the said echelons of protagonists. Ahh do hear the distant rumble of the flock also whaling and howling, gather brothers tis time to attack.

You are unbelievable. You make blanket statements about people you do not know and now you want to play the victim? Sorry, won't work on this forum, because you are not a victim, you are a protagonist. Instead of saying you know a couple of people, who have tried to game the system, you claim that many pozzies... oh never mind, you know what you said. It was hurtful, disrespectful and lacking in any empathy for anyone, who does not fit your narrow view of who deserves benefits. Fortunately, most people do not look down on you, as you do on others. Your lack of empathy and compassion is mind numbing and has no place here. We do not judge members, based on the nature of their disability, but rather on the caliber of their character.

[wow1969]

The hardest stigma to deal with was the one I carried inside myself.

Being a child of the 80's my views of HIV/AIDS was formed by that time. It was a powerful message that left a lasting impression for me. Over the years research and treatment has changed. Understanding of the virus has grown. But much of that information hasn't made it into the mainstream media. So the image created was never challenged and never really changed.

A few years ago when I came up positive I was carrying around that image inside me ... That has been and continues to be the most difficult source of stigma for me to deal with.

The truth is that it's just a virus, like many. It's a deadly virus, no doubt, but it's just a virus. Not a moral judgement or a measure of my self worth.  I still have to work on telling myself this on a regular basis because there are days when I slip back into the 80's view of HIV.

As far as external stigma ... I've had a few friends not be able to deal and go away and one betray my confidence ... But nothing major ... Is there a societal stigma attached to it? oh yeah, definitely ... whether it's mainstream society or gay society ... but the truth is it's gay society that has the most hang ups, not mainstream ... i haven't lost a single straight friend due to my status changing ... it's been gay friends ...

Heck, I've even had one of my straight female friends recently ask me, knowing i'm poz, to be the sperm donor for her child ... I reminded her of my status and she just said, you are great and have great genes, we can wash that stuff out LOL ...

I have easily been my own worst source of stigma ...

[Realist]

I am frequently amazed by the damaging friction of potentially constructive communities in all walks of life by those within those communities and particularly those who should know better.

When are we all going to learn that, as with our disease, we are individuals. We experience HIV differently and individually, we feel differently about HIV as individuals, we cope with HIV differently as individuals and we perceive the effect of HIV on us differently and individually (particularly in relation to the topic of the OP - stigma. Yes that's right this thread had an original topic).

However, there are things we can do collectively. We can share collectively, we can listen (or read) collectively, we can learn collectively, we can joke collectively (and yes, occasionally with sarcasm) and we can accept ourselves as individuals, collectively.

What is all this bullshit about - you don't agree with me? you're attacking me? You're dismissing me? Last time I checked, the vast majority of us are adults and as such should have a sufficient grasp on our behaviour and ability to respond to criticism and differences of view in an appropriate manner.

And frankly, if you've got someone on ignore, fucking ignore him, stop blindly going for the attack and apply the wisdom of your years. If you don't like someones views or lifestyle, fine, no one expects you to so get over it but instigating deliberately negatively divisive behaviour in a potentially powerful community of individual experiences and collective learning can never be constructive.

[Hellraiser]

What is all this bullshit about - you don't agree with me? you're attacking me? You're dismissing me? Last time I checked, the vast majority of us are adults and as such should have a sufficient grasp on our behaviour and ability to respond to criticism and differences of view in an appropriate manner.

TRUTH.

[Poz Brit]

in accordance to Anns request. no comment.

[Realist]

Happy to accept a PM if it's more appropriate.

[wtfimpoz]

There seems to be a small cartel who see them selves as custodians of the myth perpetrated by them selves, the truth as they see it and are comfortable with. based on longevity of the virus and forum. Sheep on the front line yet wolves in the pack. One moves, all move, one attacks, all attack? Yet blinded by their provincial, illiberal world. The consequence of this being many looking for support go else wear, as are to nervous to stick a head above the parapet.

Its really too bad there isn't a "like" option on here.  You're too right.

[jkinatl2]

Its really too bad there isn't a "like" option on here.  You're too right.

I am very disappointed in both posters' characterization. Look at the good things Matty has done, from being spot-on about meds and research, to rebutting the HIV denialists who sometimes sneak in here to undermine the site.

Look at Ann, who moderates the AM I INFECTED forum and has personally helped thousands of people overcome their fear of , or at least educate them in the mechanisms of HIV. And she does this from her heart, because she cares.

We have people on this site who administer knowledge, and hope, on a daily basis. When either of you begin doing that, then perhaps you are right in assessing those of us who have a more vested interest in this forum.

You, John, said this:

Support was here, and very good but the then flame wars and constant bickering spoilt it and I began to look around for something closer to home

and then this:

I know I don,t contribute here very often but I lurk, meeting others face to face I find so much more rewarding than just knowing some one in print, please don’t take me wrong here, the support from many on this site was over whelming and appreciated but its not the same as a face to face.

I am sorry that the volatile nature of the internet is not to your liking. This remains one of the most state of the art and well informed forums on the net. You yourself admit that this site has served you well in the past, with support and information. And though you might be loathe to admit it, some of the most well-informed people in this site also tend to get into the most scrapes - not because they hate people and do not want them to reach out here, but precisely because they CARE about this place as being a safe haven.

When someone makes an offensive statement, s/he should expect to be called on it. You should know this, having been a member for so long. And yet even in 2006 you seem to have been at odds with this site, stating:

There are some here that I have complete respect for, others I tolerate, and there have been a few that I have disliked intensely, but the current climate, with the nastiness, the proliferation of expletives and name calling I find exhausting and tedious, I can under stand the use of swear words in spoken conversation, as conversation is spontaneous, to actively write it, I find it in bad taste, so it has now left me as also being more on the lurking side than a posting participant

John, this describes the entire world. And as a writer, I can assure you that there are times when a swear word is not only appropriate, it is without synonym in context. People here might flail sometimes, might be inappropriate sometimes, but at least they - we - are trying. Trying to keep this place factually correct and still be kind to the un and under-informed.

Part of the stigma of HIV, to put this into proper threading perspective, is dealing with being on disability. Not being able to work, and living in a system that punishes efforts to do so with revocation of benefits, including the medications which make such efforts even remotely possible. There is a LOT of stigma associated with that, and to insinuate that some of us are milking said system is unfounded and hurtful.

It breeds shame, which addresses the stigma topic directly.

I am sorry you have found it necessary to lash out here, to the very people who have tried to help, to the people you acknowledge have been here for you.

As to wtf, I just shake my head. When you came back after your time out, people like myself were more than willing to accept a blank slate and engage you in polite and helpful conversation and support. I know, right? I'm an idiot.

Lessons learned.