Coronavirus vaccine and HIV+ people

[s.papadas1]

In the wake of the pandemic and the constant efforts to find reliable vaccines, I have been reading but can’t find information on the nature of « vulnerable » groups that will be prioritised as recipients of the first vaccines. Doctors are naturally first in line. Are HIV patients like us belong to the vulnerable groups along with the second in line like people with cancer or heart disease ?

[leatherman]

front-line health providers, nursing homes, teachers, food supply workers, people of specific racial and ethnic groups with high infection rates

So, who gets the vaccine first?

The case can be made that front-line health providers, the elderly in nursing homes, teachers, food supply workers and others doing essential jobs would be among the first. But there's also concern for residents of neighborhoods and people of specific racial and ethnic groups with high infection rates.

Parents may find their children low on the priority list.

https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-priority/7812765/

We are still learning about COVID-19 and how it affects people with HIV. Based on limited data, we believe people with HIV who are on effective HIV treatment have the same risk for COVID-19 as people who do not have HIV.

Older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions might be at increased risk for severe illness. This includes people who have weakened immune systems. The risk for people with HIV getting very sick is greatest in

People with a low CD4 cell count, and
People not on effective HIV treatment (antiretroviral therapy or ART).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/hiv.html

so really the issue for how vulnerable HIV+ people are to covid depends mostly on their age, their comorbidities, and how well their HIV is treated. A 20-50 yr old HIV+ person whose HIV is well treated with no comorbidities would not be in early vaccinated vulnerable groups

[s.papadas1]

Thanks so much for the swift reaction. This is also my understanding of how things will probably move forward as regards HIV+ people. Honestly, I would be relieved without an early vaccine as I am stressed at the idea of how it would interact with my meds. Since I am relatively young with very good CD4 and zero viral load and without further illnesses related to my HIV, i would prefer not to be among the first to get it. I prefer to just be extremely careful as I am now with respect to COVID.

[Almost2late]

front-line health providers, nursing homes, teachers, food supply workers, people of specific racial and ethnic groups with high infection rates.

That criteria is totally reasonable imo..and that our grocery workers are included in this list bc they are the people most of us come in contact with throughout this pandemic, so I couldn't agree more.
 

Honestly, I would be relieved without an early vaccine as I am stressed at the idea of how it would interact with my meds. Since I am relatively young with very good CD4 and zero viral load and without further illnesses related to my HIV, i would prefer not to be among the first to get it. I prefer to just be extremely careful as I am now with respect to COVID.

Makes plenty of sense.
As for myself, being poz with cd4's hovering around 300 and pushing 60 yrs now, I'm not gonna turn it down if it's offered.. that is if this Pfizer vaccine really is all that "Pfizer" is claiming it is. I'll save my excitement for after the fda has approved it.

Furthermore, even after we have effectively vaccinated the general population and hypothetically the pandemic is over.. I don't think I'm going to give up wearing a face covering in enclosed public spaces entirely. Wearing a mask seems like good hygiene to me 😷

[J.R.E.]

I don't think I'm going to give up wearing a face covering in enclosed public spaces entirely. Wearing a mask seems like good hygiene to me 😷

I agree with you on that !  It's really not an inconvenience for me, to wear a mask in an enclosed area with strangers around. I've adjusted quite well to it ! 

Ray 

[s.papadas1]

Furthermore, even after we have effectively vaccinated the general population and hypothetically the pandemic is over.. I don't think I'm going to give up wearing a face covering in enclosed public spaces entirely. Wearing a mask seems like good hygiene to me 😷

Definitely agree on it. Totally used to wearing a mask already and would never consider risking myself even if I got vaccinated. I indeed hope it will prove successful so that people who need it including us can get and be further secured. But the mask is still a mask.

[OneTampa]

Interesting.

Wonder if they have blood tested HIV+ Folk who contracted COVID-19 and their immune system formed antibodies and fought it off making them now COVID Negative?

Also I wear a Mask to. It's the New Norm. You can still be fashionable while highlighting your pretty eyes. 👍🙂

Best to Everyone ❤️,

OT

[leatherman]

Interesting.

Wonder if they have blood tested HIV+ Folk who contracted COVID-19

so that did sound interesting and so I googled it up. It seems there is a prelim, small study out of Barcelona, Spain that indicates that PLWH may be less likely to contract COVID in the first place, although once contracted the outcome seems no different from the general population as influenced by comorbidities.
https://www.ajmc.com/view/covid-19-more-prevalent-among-general-vs-hiv-positive-population-barcelona-study-says

(some more studies discussed here https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhiv/article/PIIS2352-3018(20)30164-8/fulltext)

in the future, we should have enter more answers about PLWH and COVID through CNICS, an NIH-funded network based at the University of Alabama at Birmingham that examines data from a large number of PLWH's labs and medical reports.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/10/people-with-hiv-confront-covid19/

[s.papadas1]

Still it is weird that vaccines are starting to be acceptable for people to start vaccinating themselves but still i cannot find anywhere information on any possible Interactions with HIV medication. Nothing is mentioned. Are HIV patients taken into account for this vaccine I wonder?

[Jim Allen]

Still it is weird that vaccines are starting to be acceptable for people to start vaccinating themselves but still i cannot find anywhere information on any possible Interactions with HIV medication.

Why are you expecting there would an issue with your meds? This is similar to the flu thread and I wrote a reply a week and saved it. I'll quote from that.

@OP.

The fears posted sounds a lot like the flu vaccine fears in your other thread. The flu ones are unfounded of course. 

I appreciate when a COVID-19 vaccine becomes widely available it's new, hence prehaps fears, it's not a problem though seeing as nobody is forcing anyone to take this unavailable vaccine, and you are free to go with the wait and see the approach

I'll take the vaccine, ill explain why, in terms of my HIV meds I figure at worst it interrupts my treatment for a day or so, although I don't even see how that would happen and if it did I don't care, it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

The active ingredient in this vaccine will be like so many other vaccines will be ‘antigens’. So far none would interfere with my meds, why would this one? If antigens did mess up HIV treatment for a short time then catching the illness would be a far, far worse, so ill prevent that as best I can.

As for the none active ingredients, it should consist of common, know and previously used ingredients other non-issue vaccines use and we already know they are not an issue.

So ill read the details if and when before taking it and but I see so far nothing new or unknown, so I know how my meds will react already.  Before taking the final vaccine will read the insert to double-check.

Anyhow, try to focus less on what if's, remember to talk to your healthcare provider when and if you get offered the vaccine.

Best, Jim

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/vaccine-ingredients

P.S Last time I checked PLHIV were included on one of phase 3 Covid vaccines tests. So there should be some data from that soon, ill check later today for the link and update this post.

[s.papadas1]

I am apologising for being a bit over the edge with the issue. It’s my first year on meds, I am doing pretty well with my CdL and zero viral load but I guess I have become a bit a victim of self-coercion with everything around my meds. Whatever I do I am stressed it might interact with my meds. Apologies.

[Jim Allen]

Relax, you're grand.
There is no need to apologize, I just see things from a different perspective. 

It’s my first year on meds, I am doing pretty well with my CdL and zero viral load but I guess I have become a bit a victim of self-coercion with everything around my meds.

Most of us perfectly understand that being new to living with HIV and starting to manage a long term condition can feel daunting at times with a lot of questions and fears.

Don't apologize for that.

.

P/S I will move this thread to "(Questions About Treatment & Side Effects)"

[Almost2late]

I remember hearing during the summer that vaccine manufacturers were allowing HIV+ people to participate in the vaccine trials, so when the trials came to Portland, Oregon, I wanted to participate but HIV+ people were excluded according to the local hospitals that were conducting them, even though the manufacturers said otherwise. I thought maybe this was bc of liability issues?

So now that vaccines are going to trickle into our communities starting with our healthcare workers, is there any data on how HIV+ people did in these "trials"?

I searched the internet and started right here @Poz.com to see if any HIV+ specific data was shared by the vaccine manufacturers and found nothing. How many HIV+ ppl participated in the trials? And If so, what were the average cd4 counts of the participants? Or did the vaccine trials exclude PLWH? Seriously, does anyone know?

[OneTampa]

Agree direct research results information hard to find.

Here is a little bit of soft hit information relevance:

http://iasovhweb1.iasociety.org:5052/covid-19-hiv

Take care,

OT

🤔👍

[Jim Allen]

https://i-base.info/htb/39256

The Oxford COVID vaccine has a 12-month follow-ip PLHIV study. Results will not be in till at least this time next year.

[Almost2late]

Here is a little bit of soft hit information relevance:

http://iasovhweb1.iasociety.org:5052/covid-19-hiv

Thanks Tampa for reaching out with this link, but I wasn't able to load it.

https://i-base.info/htb/39256

The Oxford COVID vaccine has a 12-month follow-ip PLHIV study. Results will not be in till at least this time next year.

And thank you too Jim.. by a year out, many of us would have already been vaccinated so if this vaccine has adverse affects in PLWH, the study would only confirm those affects after millions of human Guinea pigs already lived through.

My point is that I don't believe the vaccine companies used PLWH like they said they would in the trials.. and it's possible these vaccines may not work on people with damaged immune system.

[Jim Allen]

And thank you too Jim.. by a year out, many of us would have already been vaccinated so if this vaccine has adverse affects in PLWH, the study would only confirm those affects after millions of human Guinea pigs already lived through.

You're welcome.

Last week when I checked none of the phase III trials had yet been published in peer reviewed sites. When they do publish the data we will see what is what, in Aug Pfizer also said the phase 3 would include PLHIV. 

Next to that at least for two of the vaccines will have a separate PLHIV study, It does take time and there are other groups with manageable immune conditions so I honestly did not expect PLHIV studies at this stage but we have them ongoing.

There should be results sooner from the phase 3 testing. It's a wait and see, human guinea pigs, we are not though.

 

it's possible these vaccines may not work on people with damaged immune system.

Yeah. An example mentioned in the flu thread this year is that I'm participating in a vaccine study myself to test the flu vaccine under PLHIV with well managed HIV. I expect the outcome will the response is on par with flu vaccinations under HIV neg peers but we will see.

Back to the Covid vaccine, when it's widely available in 2021, ill wear a mask, wash my hands and keep a distance for a good while as vaccination programs are effective by getting a high% of the gen population to vaccinate, i.e. Population immunity. *

That a vaccine might not offer the same individual levels of protection isn't new and with each new vaccine, it will take time to understand that.

Best, Jim

*https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32318-7/fulltext

[Texland]

Almost2late -

The Janssen-Johnson and Johnson Covid vaccine trial is allowing people with HIV to participate. The only HIV related criteria is the viral load must not be over 50.

The Moderna vaccine trial was also accepting people with HIV. Pfizer was the first to begin human trials and may not have thought about having PLWHIV to be participating in the trials.

I found the exclusion criteria for Janssen/Johnson and Johnson a couple weeks ago, now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it again.

[s.papadas1]

Back to the Covid vaccine, when it's widely available in 2021, ill wear a mask, wash my hands and keep a distance for a good while as vaccination programs are effective by getting a high% of the gen population to vaccinate, i.e. Population immunity. *

Indeed Jim, and this is the main reason I was having misgivings about meds interactions with a vaccine with unknown yet results and effect on HIV people. I was wondering why I would risk my well maintained HIV and great every day life with my meds for a vaccine with unknown effects. I would prefer to continue being extremely careful with my mask, hand wash and social distancing. The fact there is nothing there yet poses concern.

[Jim Allen]

I don't really see the connection between my comment that building population immunity though vaccination takes time and as such ill be continuing to take precautions to your fears of HIV meds interactions...

Even if I was the first person to be vaccinated I would still take precautions not out of HIV med fears but simply because no vaccine is 100% effective and it takes time for a vaccine to rolled out and enough people to take it for population immunity to be reached also called herd immunity .

If being careful alone would be enough to fully prevent COVID spread or other illnesses we would not be in the shit we are today. Getting back to just the view of HIV med interactions and vaccines, my own point of view is clear.

The fears posted sounds a lot like the flu vaccine fears in your other thread. The flu ones are unfounded of course.

I appreciate when a COVID-19 vaccine becomes widely available it's new, hence prehaps fears, it's not a problem though seeing as nobody is forcing anyone to take this unavailable vaccine, and you are free to go with the wait and see the approach

I'll take the vaccine, ill explain why, in terms of my HIV meds I figure at worst it interrupts my treatment for a day or so, although I don't even see how that would happen and if it did I don't care, it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

The active ingredient in this vaccine will be like so many other vaccines will be ‘antigens’. So far none would interfere with my meds, why would this one? If antigens did mess up HIV treatment for a short time then catching the illness would be a far, far worse, so ill prevent that as best I can.

As for the none active ingredients, it should consist of common, know and previously used ingredients other non-issue vaccines use and we already know they are not an issue.

So ill read the details if and when before taking it and but I see so far nothing new or unknown, so I know how my meds will react already.  Before taking the final vaccine will read the insert to double-check.

Anyhow, try to focus less on what if's, remember to talk to your healthcare provider when and if you get offered the vaccine.

Best, Jim

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/vaccine-ingredients

[Jim Allen]

I would prefer to continue being extremely careful with my mask, hand wash and social distancing. The fact there is nothing there yet poses concern.

The wait and see approach is an option open to you. We each need to choose our own health care and treatment. Nothing yet poses a concern though is debatable.

[Jim Allen]

Just wanted to update the thread.

Since the thread started more vaccine data from Phase 3 has been released. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Poz published on the topic as well, a mix of data & expert opinions.
https://www.poz.com/article/covid19-vaccine-here-safe-for-people-HIV

[s.papadas1]

Thanks so much and merry Christmas

Just wanted to update the thread.

Since the thread started more vaccine data from Phase 3 has been released. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Poz published on the topic as well, a mix of data & expert opinions.
https://www.poz.com/article/covid19-vaccine-here-safe-for-people-HIV

[harleymc]

There is no mechanism for how an ART would interact with a vaccine for an unrelated virus.

[OneTampa]

New USA CDC (Centers for Disease Control) COVID-19 Vaccination Guidelines for Patients with underlying conditions including HIV+.

Link:

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/531722-cdc-issues-new-guidance-about-vaccinations-for-people-with-underlying

[s.papadas1]

Thanks for this link. It seems to me then that there is an urge to take the vaccine (which is something I will after discussing with my doctor) but the data still are obviously non sufficient.

[bocker3]

I just got a call from my Veterans Administration Medical Center.  I am now scheduled to get the Pfizer vaccine on Thursday 1/7/21 -- second dose to be given on 1/28/21.

Only reason they'd call me this early is my "underlying condition" - HIV.  I'm only in my mid-fifties, so not old enough to be up front, but the VA is prioritizing underlying conditions.

I'll let you all know how it goes next week.

Mike

[s.papadas1]

Great! Indeed let us know

[bocker3]

Got my 1st shot yesterday.  Other than a sore arm, no side effects at this point.  Though I DID oversleep this morning, so I'm going to blame the vaccine if anyone from work notices I was late (one of the advantages of working from home -- no commute).

I go back for the 2nd shot in 3 weeks.

Mike

[s.papadas1]

Thank you very much for providing this information. Unfortunately it seems it’s not going to be done like this in Europe. We are LONG away from that. Currently only medical personnel is vaccinated. Next week elderly people. Then people in risky situations HIV included but only if someone is at high risk due to lack of antiretrovirals or low CD4. With antiretrovirals, high CD4 and zero viral load (my case), I am considered completely healthy and move to the last category of healthy people.

[s.papadas1]

Plus an article that might be useful and hopeful:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.livemint.com/science/health/are-covid-19-vaccines-safe-for-people-living-with-hiv/amp-11608652375012.html

[J.R.E.]

Got my 1st shot yesterday.  Other than a sore arm, no side effects at this point.  Though I DID oversleep this morning, so I'm going to blame the vaccine if anyone from work notices I was late (one of the advantages of working from home -- no commute).

I go back for the 2nd shot in 3 weeks.

Mike

That's great Mike ! Still patiently waiting for my first one ( Ed as well) . In Pinellas county, here in Florida, The computers went down and the phone banks went down as well, within minutes on the first day. Pinellas county no longer taking reservations.

I am waiting for the VA to contact me, when it's my turn, but so far, no a whole lot taking place.


Ray