Author Topic: does living with hiv cause sooner/rapid physical ageing too? (Read 8470 times)

lifer · « **on:** January 31, 2011, 06:25:52 pm »

This has been going through my head lately. Apart from staying healthy and feeling good which is the most important of course... All these scientific articles telling us that hiv is accountable for rapid immune cells ageing etc etc makes me wonder.. Will that manifest in rapid physical ageing too?

Been poz for three years now, still only 23. Will I look 40 when I'll only be 30? I know genes and nutrition and cutting out riskfull factors like smoking, drugs etc play a big role too but what I wonder is.. Even when all those things are taken into consideration and you take proper care of yourself, is it still inevitable and will you indeed look much older in the end because of this infection?

Dachshund · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:35:29 pm »

Quote from: lifer on January 31, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

This has been going through my head lately. Apart from staying healthy and feeling good which is the most important of course... All these scientific articles telling us that hiv is accountable for rapid immune cells ageing etc etc makes me wonder.. Will that manifest in rapid physical ageing too?

Been poz for three years now, still only 23. Will I look 40 when I'll only be 30? I know genes and nutrition and cutting out riskfull factors like smoking, drugs etc play a big role too but what I wonder is.. Even when all those things are taken into consideration and you take proper care of yourself, is it still inevitable and will you indeed look much older in the end because of this infection?

Soon to be 59 and look 40. Go figure.

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:37:24 pm »

As I understand it HIV can cause poz folks to age more rapidly than mortals do. Why is not understood.

I think it's important to understand that it's not necessarily about appearance. Aging causes a decline in the function of many internal organs such as the kidneys, the brain and so on.

Check out Miss Philicia. She's only 28 and she looks like Betty White in a bald wig.

MtD

Rev. Moon · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:45:07 pm »

Keep some poppers handy and you will remain forevah young, dahling.

A good friend of mine who is 48 has been poz since 87 and looks a lot younger than his real age. I'm sure that it's about them genes, not the virus (or the meds) that will make you look older.

hope_for_a_cure · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:55:18 pm »

Interesting topic! I was diagnosed almost a year ago and was wondering why I have the overwhelming urge to watch Lawrence Welch and drink mass quantities of Geritol.

Matty the Damned · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2011, 07:00:01 pm »

Quote from: hope_for_a_cure on January 31, 2011, 06:55:18 pm

Interesting topic! I was diagnosed almost a year ago and was wondering why I have the overwhelming urge to watch Lawrence Welch and drink mass quantities of Geritol.

MtD

surf18 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2011, 07:42:45 pm »

good question but you can take it one step further and say.ok is this for untreated hiv that test mean or is once one is ud does that make there aging on par witn negs?

eric48 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:00:30 pm »

,

Hi,

This question, medically, originates in 2 statistical 'observations'

- a number of diseases are seen in HIVers at a younger age as their neg counter parts
- by current demographic models, life expectancy of HIVers, in general, (as if they were an homogeneous group, which they are not...), is lower than the general population
(the gap is narrowing, yet, there is room for improvement)

Now, take the 2 arguments above and replace the word HIVERS by the following word:
- smoker
- manual worker
- born in the USA (as compared to born in western Europe)
- born in Eastern Europe (as compared to the USA)
- male (compared to female)
- overweight
- poor
- single (yes, statistically people living in couple live longer)
- being pedantic (like myself ;-) )
- etc. etc. etc.

it remains true

What can you make of this at the INDIVIDUAL level ?

Take it with a grain of salt

A the beginning of the 20 th century the definition of an elderly was > 50
50 year later the definition was > 65
Currently we are talking more of > 75

Moreover, in the general population, the number of years with age related impairment is reducing (currently 6.2 years where I live)
Same trend among (modern times) HIVers, I'd assume

Are there strategies around that are likely to work at the individual level?

Yes. Review your situation, assess your risk profile and do the right thing (as much as you can or willing to) about each risk

Yet, ageing (and its ultimate consequence, going into blue sky) is inevitable (as of today's science)

And look around, some people age with grace, style, elegance.
There may be some of them around you and you may enjoy being with them.

Some others just look like ... toads ... (at 30 + ...)
There may be some of them around you and you may enjoy being with them.

Personally, I had no other option than try to stay in the good looking group.
At age (almost) 60, my spouse is (still) so good looking that I still have to fight to keep all those predators at bay...

Go figure

Take it easy

Eric

J.R.E. · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:13:36 pm »

Quote from: eric48 on January 31, 2011, 08:00:30 pm

Yes. Review your situation, assess your risk profile and do the right thing (as much as you can or willing to) about each risk.

Worth repeating !

Ray

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:18:42 pm »

It might take a bit more than "eating well" if this article which appeared four days ago is accurate:

http://www.aidsmap.com/page/1624151/

eric48 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2011, 09:15:11 pm »

Good link...

The telomerase approach may make sense in some sub sets...

The article also reminds that CD4 is a species with many sub species and diversity is a plus (IMHO)

naive and memory CD4 cells have different lifespan.

in untreated HIV, the CD4 pool needs to renew itself very rapidly to keep up with the rapid death of CD4.

Something that people who prefer to delay treatment (based on CD4 count alone) sometimes forget or overlook.

the average halflife of a CD4 in untreated HIV (for the average HIVer, LTN-whatever non included, etc...) is ... 1 and a half day

soon after treatment the average halflife of a CD4 is 11 to 15 days; then (if the recovery is satisfactory) my understanding is that the halflife gets back to its original several months

1 and a half day ! that is a hell of an exhaustive turn over (in terms of telomerase shortening)

I read somewhere that telomerase shortening in (HIV neg) elderly is relatively small as compared to telomerase shortening in other type of cells

I guess this is because the new generation of CD4s do not originate only from duplication of the previous generation, but also originates in stem cells in bone marrow.
I guess a number of new CD4 also originate in duplicating , older, CD4s as well...
For that pool, telomerase shortening would make sense

It is all very hypothetical and in the grey area of my understanding of things, but my gut feeling is that this tilts the balance a little more towards earlier initiation of the modern, safer medication.

Just some thoughts

Eric

aztecan · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2011, 11:31:04 pm »

HIV-related premature aging has been a topic of conversation at several different conferences I have attended.

As some have pointed out, it isn't how one looks. I still look gorgeous and not a day over 29 (on a very dark night as long as you are not wearing your glasses).

It is what is going on inside that is important.

I think the net result of the various discussions and studies I have heard about is that HIV causes our immune system and our internal body parts to age more rapidly.

Philly's link discussed a possible cause, at least to immune function aging, and made one possible explanation of why it is extant in both those on treatment and those who aren't.

During one seminar last year, one of the doctors presenting, and I don't remember now who or from where, was discussing some of those he had encountered who are in my age group (mid 50s) who were pozzies had immune systems of those not virally enhanced who are in the 70s and 80s.

At this time, the best you can do is to try to keep yourself as healthy as you are able, including eating healthily, etc., and don't wait until your immune system is in the toilet to begin ARV therapy.

HUGS,

Mark

tednlou2 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2011, 11:56:45 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on January 31, 2011, 08:18:42 pm

It might take a bit more than "eating well" if this article which appeared four days ago is accurate:

http://www.aidsmap.com/page/1624151/

I saw this study a few days ago on the poz homepage. It is basically the same info. I think this one breaks down the participants in the study more---unless I overlooked something, which is definitely not unheard of. This aging issue has been getting a lot of attention lately. While I do have big concerns over the cosmetic aspects of aging, I am more concerned over the mental stuff, organs, and being mobile still at 60. But, hey--it beats the alternative I guess.

http://www.poz.com/articles/hiv_telomere_sensescence_761_19813.shtml

mecch · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:12:54 am »

I think its two different questions -
surface beauty and youthful looking
and
diseases of aging

If all the promises doctors make these days that the HAART doesn't give most people body changes, than it would seem that HIV and hiv treatment is not going to take a visual toll on how you look. Or at least much less than lifestyle does on everyone.

However if you have a lot of stress about HIV and it works out in lousy lifestyle and joie de vivre, it seems clear this will "age" your looks.

As for the diseases of aging, I would go with yeah, HIV throws an extra wrench into those mechanisms.

wolfter · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:23:00 am »

I recently attended a highschool reunion. Seeing all my "old" classmates put this issue to rest. I didn't see one person I'd sleep with again. I was so concerned about the few pounds I've gained until I saw that most were not the least bit concerned about their physical appearance. In general, I'd say gay people will always strive to look as hot as possible.

mecch · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:10:50 pm »

Hey well its not just gay guys, many mature women keep up appearances as well!

I saw a voluptuous 50 something woman in high boots and tight jeans walking down the street the other day. She looked her age but she looked great and fun too.

AlanBama · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:40:53 pm »

It's sort of like "dog years". A year with HIV is like 2-3 yrs. of a 'normal' life. A year with AIDS is like 3-5 yrs. So I am about 184...

The short answer is "YES"

Inchlingblue · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:48:07 pm »

Quote from: Matty the Damned on January 31, 2011, 06:37:24 pm

Check out Miss Philicia. She's only 28 and she looks like Betty White in a bald wig.

LOL

By the way, isn't Hosni Mubarak 82 or something? He's had good work done.

mecch · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2011, 02:03:46 pm »

"ageless" Naomi Campbell always says "black don't crack" but I think she's had the face done.

khadafi and Mubarak have both seen the knife. Hussein looked rather tucked as well.

aztecan · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:15:43 pm »

Quote from: AlanBama on February 01, 2011, 03:40:53 pm

It's sort of like "dog years". A year with HIV is like 2-3 yrs. of a 'normal' life. A year with AIDS is like 3-5 yrs. So I am about 184...

The short answer is "YES"

I am not sure which is worse, losing my butt, or forgetting what it looked like when I had a butt? $:-\$

Oh, and Alan, if your are 184, that puts me over 200.

HUGS,

Mark

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Author Topic: does living with hiv cause sooner/rapid physical ageing too? (Read 8470 times)