POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: youguessedit on September 01, 2006, 07:05:43 pm
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Howdy. Like many users in this "am I infected?" forum, I had a possible HIV exposure. The situation was low risk (gave a blowjob to gay guy of unknown status without ejaculation for a maximun of 20 seconds), but, like most worry wells, I still worried.
I worried that my gums or lips might have been in bad shape at the time (I am guilty of not brushing my teeth as regularly as I would like, and I sometime have chapped lips etc.) and that the HIV infected precum could have had an easy enterance into the bloodstream. Even when a dentist told me 2 months post possible exposure that my gums were really healthy and pretty resistant to gum disease, I still convinced myself that at the time of the exposure it could have been a different story.
I got tested for all STDs at my local GUM clinic 9 weeks post exposure - not surprisingly, I was negative on all counts. I asked the doctor if I should come back in three months, he told me to get another test at that time just to ease my mind - his body language didn't seem to suggest he was that fussed either way.
Okay, so 12 weeks post exposure, I got another HIV test. Again, the results were negative. I asked the doctor (it was a different one) if this can now be considered conclusive, "should be" was the reply.
Unsatisfied with a 100% conclusive answer, I seeked the advice of a local GP, she told me it was understandable that I was still nervous. When asking her if the 12 week results were conclusive, she said they weren't, because nothing in the medical proffesion can be considered absolutely certain. She said that even a negative result at 6 months wouldn't be certain. I asked if I ever needed further HIV testing from this low risk exposure. She said I didn't.
It seems the despite all the indications of my negative status, I just can't come to terms with it. Even though I was tested with (according to the GP) the most up to date antibody tests currently availabe (I am in the UK). I can't get rid of this irrational fear.
Hell, I haven't even had any significant symptoms. I know symptoms are never a reliable indicator of HIV infection, but I have learnt that most people develop a prolonged fever. I, however, have not. The only symptom I have had that would suggest ARS is a coated toungue and slightly sore, dry throat, but they're both too common to worry about.
You may wonder, why I have said all this, despite the fact I am claiming my fears are irrational. I guess I just want to put everything in perspective - to say every last thing that's on my mind. You never seem to have the time to say everything you want to say to a doctor face to face. Although I have been given many reassuring answers - I just really want a straight one.
Calling me a pathetic over-the-top worrier would even help. Arghhh ... just tell me I'm okay. Please tell me I'm okay.
Thank you.
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Guessed,
Your test results are conclusive. You don't have HIV infection. I know what your doctor said, but the reality is that you're not positive.
I think it's time for you to get some counselling or therapy regarding your unfounded fears of HIV infection. I'm not going to call you an "over the top" worrier, because I don't think that will help.
Yet. ;)
Seriously love, talk to a professional and get your head sorted out. You owe it to yourself. Oh, and read our Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0), it contains links to lessons on how HIV is and is not transmitted.
Regards,
MtD
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Thank you for your reassurance, matty.
It's amazing how nice it is to hear a complete and trusted stranger tell you you're okay.
I found this thread aswell.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=736.0
The guy had an identical exposure to mine - he tested at 13 weeks, 6 days - I don't think that really makes much of a diffence to my 12 week, 1 day.
Or does it ... ?
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I'll shut up now. :D
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Your mind may continue to churn out doubts about your status .....for a long time. That's about feelings and not about facts.
A negative test result is a fact. A negative test result at 12-13 weeks is even by conservative standards accepted as reliable.
In relation to the incident you are concerned about many including me wouldn't even consider testing to have been necessary.
Give some thought to what is giong on emotionally that might make you hold on to this fear. To me that is the real issue here because this is NOT an HIV situation.
Make sure you have read the lesson on transmission. You can find a link to it through the first thread in this section. The real risks sexually in terms of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. There rest are more risky theoretically than in actuality. No kidding.
This time out you have no cause for further concern.
Cheers,
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Thank you for your reply, Andy.
In relation to the incident you are concerned about many including me wouldn't even consider testing to have been necessary.
This is nice to hear. I always thought that, with the uncertainty over the state of my gums and lips (may have been small holes, sores etc.), the low risk incident could become high risk, because infected precum could go directly into the bloodstream. I guess I presumed that HIV infection is guaranteed when (even a very small amount of it) enters the blood. That's what made me really worried, I think. However, saying that, I am relatively certain that there was no active bleeding in my mouth at the time.
Give some thought to what is giong on emotionally that might make you hold on to this fear. To me that is the real issue here because this is NOT an HIV situation.
I guess my mind went into dangerous territory and I actually started to assume that I was infected. Even after the 9 week negative, I was looking at life with a state remorse, as if I was about to go on a long journey. Really over the top, I know. After the 12 week negative, the fears subsided a bit, but every now and then, they linger in my mind. I should stop talking about it, really. Because, as you say, "this is not an HIV situation". Also, I'm going to be starting at University later this month (I am 19). I also wanted to be sure I was HIV free before I go. Thanks to this site, I may actually be approaching that mindset.
The real temptation will lie in my visit to the GUM clinic in a couple of weeks time for a hep jap. I'll probably end up thinking I need another HIV test and therefore, start the whole "waiting-for-results-anxiety" again (they take 2 long weeks in the UK).
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Hey - just thought I'd say that thanks to this site an all the lovely people on it, my unfounded fear of HIV has reduced significantly.
I might as well add this:
I just remembered that I had a baby tooth removed roughly 6 months prior to the incident - I still have a gap where the adult tooth should grow and it still feels sensitive to brush around it. I'm just wondering (possibily for future indication on whether to get it sorted it out) whether this increases the risk of giving oral sex significantly? I was initially worried about how this would effect the original exposure, but I guess I should keep on trying to convince myself that even if the exposure was somehow increased to high risk (which I'm hoping it wasn't), the negative 12 week antibody test would still be 100% conclusive.
Thanks.
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I feel stupid for being the only one posting in this thread.
I have some random window period questions:
1) A reassuring response for someone that feels their negative 12-13 week result isn't reliable because of fears of older test generation is usually something like, "Don't worry. A 12-13 week negative is conclusive no matter what the genaration of test". At the same time, a typical response for someone worrying over the possible 6 month seroconversian time is, "Relax. With the latest antibody testing the 6 month window time doesn't apply".
Is it me, or do these statements clash? I see them both around the internet everywhere (not sure about this site, though). Would it mean, then, that even in the early nineties the 6 month period would only apply for people with surpressed immune systems? Or have antibody tests really come a long way? Either, way, one of these reassurances must be false.
2) Say someone ends up getting a positive HIV result after a risky exposure. Would doctors always assume that it was the most recent event that triggered infection? If so, for all they know, the person could have been infected as a result of a previous exposure, whereby he/she tested negative up to the three month mark but (god forbid) seroconverted late. Would such a scenerio be possible?
Thanks.
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Guessed,
Please don't get into the "what-if" cycle. Hypotheticals and "what-iffing" are not going to bring you the reassurance you want.
If your aunty had balls she'd be your uncle. ;)
Ya dig?
MtD
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Yeah, I see what you mean.
It's just so annoying that the human body is designed in such a way to purposefully give you HIV symptoms to respond to your HIV anxiety. How helpful.
It seems that everytime I run out of things to worry about, my body creates a new abnormality. For example, I woke up pretty calm this morning. When I went to check in the mirror, I found so weird skin flap type bump thing in my inside cheek. I'm hoping that it's there because I bit it or something, but there's always that lingering doubt that it's something much bigger.
Anyway, I'll stop now. I realise my fears are purely mental, and this is not a therapy forum.
But to put things simply:
It doesn't matter what weird abnormalities turn up around my body, because I am HIV NEGATIVE after 12 weeks. Whatever turns up is definitely, 100% NOT HIV!!!!
Correct?
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It's just so annoying that the human body is designed in such a way to purposefully give you HIV symptoms to respond to your HIV anxiety.
Guessed,
I know we sound like old fusspots when we say this, but there are no "HIV symptoms" as such. The notion that there are is the sort of thinking you have to move away from.
In fact the things which are unique to HIV infection, ie HIV antibodies, you can't feel at all.
Nevertheless, you seem to be getting the idea. Perhaps you should consider talking to a therapist about this sort of stuff.
Regards,
MtD
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Happily you do not have a problem WITH HIV.
You do seem to have one ABOUT HIV. Big difference there.
You also mention losing a baby tooth recently. How old are you? That remark of yours implies to me that you are 1) quite young and 2) probably new to sexual activity.
If I am correct about those assumptons then you need to know that becoming sexcually active along with being very exciting also frequently stirs up a lot of anxiety. Which is how I see your situation.
What we do know is that you have reliably tested negative for HIV. You ARE HIV negative. Period. End of story. Really.
Get on with your life.
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Thanks a lot, Andy. I will get on with my life now and enjoy the best I can, making sure to stay safe sexually.
As for the baby tooth comment - I'm 19. God knows why I still have baby teeth, but I think the one that was removed was the last. But yes, I am new to sexual activity, which explains the anxiety.
Thank you!
EDIT:
Matty, didn't see your post above Andy's. It's funny, I've actually finished a three your bout of therapy recently as I am now off to university - I might as well get a therapist there.
Thanks again.
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Hey. I'm sorry as this is just an HIV forum, but I can't think of anyone else to ask right now.
I just noticed in another thread that gonorrhoea (and chlamydia) can infect the throat. When I went for the full STD screening about a month ago, they only did a penis swap (no throat) despite me telling them the entire situation. I've been having a coated toungue and slightly sore throat for about a month now. Should I get a throat test for G+C?
EDIT: Typo
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Guessed,
Both gonorrhoea and chlamydia can live in the throat, though gono is much more common at that site of infection. If you're concerned, make another appointment and ask for a "pharyngeal swab".
Pharyngeal gonorrhoea is commonly asymptomatic, which means you carry the bug but have no symptoms, so once again you need to stop with the fretting over symptoms, kiddo.
Regards,
MtD
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Ok. Thanks a lot. I'll get a throat test when I get my final hep jab in a couple of weeks.
Just so I know for sure, even if I do somehow turn positive for gono, I am still 100% HIV negative thanks to the 12 week test?
I'm sorry. I know you must find this annoying, but I just want to make sure I say every last thing I'm worried about, just so someone can't turn to me and say, "what? You didn't tell us that. I'll need to re-evaluate your risk ...". I think that after this I will be home free from new stuff to worry (hopefully).
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Guessed,
Having gonorrhoea (or any other infection for that matter) in no way affects the outcome of an HIV antibody test.
MtD
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Cool. Thanks.
I frequently see in other threads to get a full STD test every six months or so if you're sexually active. What does "sexually active" actually mean? How many partners within a six month period would make it apply.
Also, do you reccomend bi-annual check-ups incase there is a very rare case in seroconversion? Would my negative HIV test be 100% valid if I was, say, planning on having a baby, or I decided to become a catholic priest and remain abstinent for life - I wouldn't have to worry about getting AIDS, right?
I know these are both scenarios that are no likely to happen to me in the near future, but sometimes I worry that reccomending frequent check-ups is a non-worrying way of suggesting the possibility of late (post 12 weeks) seroconversion.
Statements like, "the only way to be completely safe from HIV is abstinence", make me confused. Surely if an individual never has a sex under the influence of alchohol and always used condoms correctly (i.e. never had a breakage or slippage), why do they even need an HIV test?
Again, I'm sorry for continually posting despite my confirmed negative status. I just think, in a weird kind of way, typing down my thoughts and anxieties is a good way of letting them go.
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What does "sexually active" actually mean? How many partners within a six month period would make it apply.
I don't know. What do you think "sexually active" means?
As for how many partners, I would suggest that an appropriate number is 6,741,568.
Yup.
If you've had that many partners then . . .
MtD
(Who honestly wonders)
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I know my questions seems to relate to someone behaving very irrationally and anxiously, but I still think they're serious enough questions (especially the latter) ...
I don't want to cause offence or anything, I just want to ask the experts any questions that are on my mind. I thought that was what this forum was for.
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I'm feeling a lot better now. I apologise for my behaviour.
I'm hoping that this positive feeling actually remains, but if not, I may simply re-read this message to convince myself I'm being paranoid.
Thank you so much for all your guidance, I really admire all you guys, really I do.
Hopefully I will never need to come to this site again, but it's been "fun".
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Hello. I have a new question regarding throat gonorrhoea:
I have heard that throat gonorrhoea tends to cure naturally, and taking antibiotics only speeds up the inevitible demise of the infection.
Is this true?
Also, my HIV fears have been SIGNIFANTLY reduced. Again, I apologise for my behaviour before.
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Guessed,
Gonorrhoea DOES NOT CLEAR UP NATURALLY. People with gono need to have antibiotics to cure it. Left untreated gono can be quite serious. It can cause Reiter's Syndrom in men, a painful and disabling condition.
Untreated in women it can lead to much more serious complications including (but not limited to) pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), sterility, peritonitis and in some rare cases death as a result of the complications of PID and peritonitis.
MtD
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Okay. I'll try and get checked again some time. Thanks for the quick reply.
This was the source of my original statement, by the way.
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/messages/597.html
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Irrespective of the views of the good doctor, the suggestion that gonorrhoea can just go away by itself is not a responsible one. People who think they may have gonorrhoea should seek medical advice and treatment as a matter of priority.
MtD
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Okay, cool. Thanks a lot.
Thank God I didn't find out about this within the HIV window period. I would have killed myself with worry over the increased risk of transmission.
Shudder ...
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Sorry, but I just remembered something ...
I was taking prescribed(sp?) antibiotics pior to the exposure and during the HIV window period. The antibiotics were anti-spot stuff called Tertalysal 300 - I guess I already know the answer, but this does not change the conclusivness of the 12 week negative, does it?
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Antibiotics do not have any impact on the validity of an HIV antibody test result.
MtD
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Thanks again, matty. It appears that all the other experts have given up on my idiocy, but you stand firm. :)
Anyway, until next we meet (hopefully never - and I say that for your sake as well as mine ...).
Time to forget this. Buh Bye.
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I'm going to update on this whole throat gono thing ...
I rang up my local GUM clinic - I was unable to speak to a doctor, but the woman told me that they give tests according to the type of exposure. I told her my exposure was giving oral sex - and she said to get tested if you're worried. What the hell? Why be so relaxed about it? Sometimes I wonder that the NHS are not so concerned with the spread of STDs. I still can't get past the fact that they didn't bother with the throat swab. Sure, they may have misheard me when I discussed my sexual history, but they also reccomended I get a hep jab if I "continue to practise oral sex" - this leads me to believe they read me loud and clear.
It's funny, because in the medhelp link I gave above, the guy didn't get a throat swab either. What's going on?
I then rang up the national UK STD helpline. They said that the penis swab I did would detect any possible infections in my throat because G+C infect the urine and blood. Huh? I find this very hard believe. Why not get a simple blood sample if the detection of G+C is that simple? Anything is better than getting a cottenbud shoved up your dick.
Sigh. Yeah, I know. Regardless of what the NHS may or maynot believe about throat G+C, I should still get tested again (that would be fourth our of five visit in this last couple of months), but I then think about all the other people in my position that don't bother to question NHS practises, and just forget about it (I actually envy those people). They could be carrying around G+C, while being confident that they're clear of everything.
It's incredibly annoying to not be an exbert on STDs - you constantly feel kept in the dark. Surely this is not the way to go if we (the normal folk) want to prevent infections, and, more importantly, new cases of HIV.
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Okay ... I've calmed down a bit now. And am probably going to get a throat swab test tomorrow.
Just so I don't make a fool of myself when I'm there:
The two penis swabs I took originally, would not have picked up any G/C throat infection. Is that right?
Also, and I know this is asking a lot, can anyone think of any reason as to why they would not bother with the throat swab?
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guess,
A penile swab will not pick up an infection in your throat, unless you have very strange anatomy and your penis is in your mouth instead of your tongue or something.
I haven't a clue why they didn't swab your throat. As I don't have a crystal ball, you'll have to ask them yourself.
Ann
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Ok. Thanks. I just wanted to be sure.
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I still have a question about HIV that's been lingering in my mind for a while. I'm sure you are all sick of me constantly asking questions, so I am going to ask permission this time.
Is it okay if I ask another question?
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Bah. Forget what I said before. I just found these documents on antibody testing in the UK:
http://www.bashh.org/guidelines/2006/hiv_testing_june06.pdf
"Improved antibody tests and the application of PCR tests have served to lessen the interval it takes to detect infection (in some cases less than 2 weeks from exposure). Patients asked to return 3 months after suspected high risk activity for HIV transmission often fail to do so. Thus, testing of individuals should not be delayed for 3 months, particularly in those suspected of infection: those unwell or who may be seroconverting.
Observational data are limited, but in ten years of application of the 'three months rule' by all members of the UK HIV Laboratory Forum no reports of its failure have been received, and thus it is recommended that in general the three month rule continues to be applied 15. Patients may be infectious to others during this period and should be advised of this. In cases where post exposure prophylaxis (PEP) is given a 6 month follow-up test is recommended due to the fact that antiretrovirals may reduce replication and prolong antibody response."
Okay, so that's three different doctors (2 GUM, 1 GP), this official document, Doctor Bob on thebody.com, and (last but not least) you experts on AIDSmeds.com that have told me directly that I do not need anymore testing and that I am conclusively NEGATIVE! I think that's enough, don't you? I refuse to even listen to all the 6-month jelly-beans.
Ohhh ... there's more:
"Many laboratories have been employing fourth generation HIV screening tests."
My GP told me that I was testing in the most up to date area of England, so chances are good that I got tested with a fouth generation test. WOO HOO! And even if it was thrid generation ... who cares? It's still WOO HOOABLE (to quote Dr. Bob).
Okay, so thanks again to all you guys. It may seem like I didn't appriciate and value your risk assessment and help, but I really did! I think that a worry-well needs to see quite a few offiical documents and hear a lot of expert analysis before they can really see the truth! (I'm sure if I found the NHS document first, I would still be extemely worried.).
Okay, so I know this is probably like the third time I've said this, but this time I see no reason to come back here. I will probably let everyone know how my G+C test went (if anyone cares), but other than that, I see no reason to request more infomation on HIV.
I will probably try and keep myself informed on the disease, though. But, yeah, anyway, good-bye, and I'm SORRY for being so ... annoying (this applies mostly to you, matty).
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Arghh ... sometimes the HIV fears come back.
I think I just have a hard time excepting how ignorant of HIV I was at the time (didn't know it could be transmitted through giving fellatio - or atleast, I didn't know that cunninlugus and fellatio where slightly different in terms of risk).
I also wonder if my exposure was high risk because I do not know what my gums were like at the time - all I know is that they were not bleeding or sore, I do not know when I last brushed my teeth prior to the incident, but I do know that my gums were described as "healthy" by a dentist, 2 months post incident. I hate all the speculation and uncertainties. Like what is an open cut when we're talking in gum terms? Even when gums bleed, they only do so for a short amount of time. I heard that actually the gums are better at repairing themselves from cuts etc. than skin. I dunno if this is true, though.
Even so, I got a negative result at 12 weeks post incident, and should keep on trying to except the fact that even if my exposure was a certain high risk (like receptive anal sex), it would still be conclusive. But then I hate how nothing is truely certain and I worry that in ten years or so when I think about having kids, I get a routine HIV test and it somehow becomes positive and I cannot explain it. The doctors will look at me and think, "just another in-the-closet homosexul who doesn't want to admit to having unprotected anal sex," - and that'll be that.
I even come up with crazy consipracy theories, like the GUM clinic I went to pretended to test me to save money or something. Like they only bother to test people who have had a high risk exposure. Stupid, I know.
I know you are not therapists. And I know you are all probably getting more and more frustrated by my continued promises of leaving this place forever, but everday I can't help but browse the forums and the internet in general searching for more and more reliable reassurance. It's like I'm addicted to reassurance.
The fact is, I have no one to talk to about this and won't be able to get a therapist untill I go uni. I know that this anxiety is part of something bigger, but I just wish I can find it and remove it.
Sorry.
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I know you are not therapists.
Well at least you know something.
I find it hard to believe that the British NHS can't accommodate you. Surely there must be a social worker somewhere who's silly enough to take you on.
You know something? We're not paid. We're stupid enough to do this for free. We do this because we want to see the virus that has fucked our lives stopped. It's time you stopped being an arsehole and accepted that you don't have HIV. Stop wasting our time and the resources of your local GUM clinic.
MtD
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Don't really know what to say ...
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I was going to type a long reply attempting to justify my anxiety and the mistreatment of the word, "arse-hole", but you're right. This is the wrong place to speak of my anxiety because my petty metal problems are not in any way comparable to the problems of HIV sufferers. I'm really sorry about everything. I will try and sort this out, I promise. I just hope that you guys can forgive me, and that if (god forbid) I ever turn out positive (from another incident), I will be able to use this forum for support.
I feel so stupid.
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Don't really know what to say ...
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I was going to type a long reply attempting to justify my anxiety and the mistreatment of the word, "arse-hole", but you're right. This is the wrong place to speak of my anxiety because my petty metal problems are not in any way comparable to the problems of HIV sufferers. I'm really sorry about everything. I will try and sort this out, I promise. I just hope that you guys can forgive me, and that if (god forbid) I ever turn out positive (from another incident), I will be able to use this forum for support.
I feel so stupid.
Stop being "sorry" and get on with your life.
And yes, you are an arsehole.
MtD
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Right. Well on that positive note, I better make a swift exit.
EDIT: Actually, maybe someone can delete this thread?
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Right. Well on that positive note, I better make a swift exit.
Yeah, you better.
MtD
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Right. Well on that positive note, I better make a swift exit.
Yeah, you better.
MtD
matty, I find it hard to just leave and forget about this when I've upset you so. I honestly feel really, really shit about it all right now, because I've realised how horrible I've been. I'm so fucking sorry. Please except the fact that I'm not lying about this and please forgive me. I believe that is the most certain and unirrational thing I've said in the thread.
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matty, I find it hard to just leave and forget about this when I've upset you so. I honestly feel really, really shit about it all right now, because I've realised how horrible I've been. I'm so fucking sorry. Please except the fact that I'm not lying about this and please forgive me. I believe that is the most certain and unirrational thing I've said in the thread.
Honey you haven't upset me. I just think you're sad. Yeah, I've heard your story a thousand times before.
MtD
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matty, I find it hard to just leave and forget about this when I've upset you so. I honestly feel really, really shit about it all right now, because I've realised how horrible I've been. I'm so fucking sorry. Please except the fact that I'm not lying about this and please forgive me. I believe that is the most certain and unirrational thing I've said in the thread.
Honey you haven't upset me. I just think you're sad. Yeah, I've heard your story a thousand times before.
MtD
I'm glad that I haven't upset you, and I know that I am sad individual. I just hope that there are no hard feelings.