Author Topic: Anal Sex (Read 15191 times)

lilac561 · « **on:** November 13, 2010, 06:34:59 pm »

Hi everybody. I have been worried sick for the past 3 weeks. Here is my situation:

I am a young Asian woman living in Toronto, Canada.
3 years ago I was briefly involved with an Asian hetero, non IV drug using male. To date, he is the only man I have gotten involved with. However, I know that he has been involved with other women in the past. We had two instances of unprotected sexual contact. Both instances, there was fingering, and oral sex both of which I have read are low risk activities. There was no unprotected vaginal intercourse, but I THINK there may have been unprotected anal. I'm not sure whether or not it was anal because he didn't really get in there. I was not bent over or anything, he was sitting behind me. I now know this is a high risk activity but unfortunately I had no idea back then, and I really didn't expect/agree with him to have anal sex. I had made it clear to him beforehand that I was not willing to have sex, but only agreed to foreplay.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I developed these pimples on my scalp which I'm sure is seborrheic dermatitis. I've also developed a dry throat and a lump in the throat feeling. My voice gets hoarse if I talk for a while.Additionally, I'm having lots of discomfort in my abdominal/intestinal area at night with lots of bloating, grumbling etc. I have read online that Seb Derm is very common for HIV+ people, and this has made me absolutely terrified. My other guess however is that it could be a thyroid problem. I showed the doctor the pimples and she prescribed 1% hydrocortisone and she also ordered a blood test which showed an elevated ESR. So she ordered a CBC and a urine test for which results have not yet been obtained.

I am very scared of the results and I guess I'm just looking for your thoughts/opinions on my situation. Also, I would like to add that the man was in training to be a police officer and has recently become part of the police force, if that makes a difference. I think they have to undergo a medical exam, and I don't know whether he would show symptoms by now but he would have to inform me by law in that case.

RapidRod · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2010, 06:37:50 pm »

At no time were you at risk of contracting HIV as for anal sex had you been penetrated you would have known without a doubt.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2010, 07:02:54 pm »

Dear Lilac,

I agree with Rod that it is highly unlikely you would have been penetrated, particularly for a first time, without being well aware of it.

I don't see cause for further concern. There is nothing even remotedly HIV specific about your symptoms. But if you are going to continue to worry about it, there's a very simple solution: get tested for HIV. Life is too short to be spent worrying needlessly.

By the way, only an HIV specific test can tell you anything about your HIV status. A CBC test, urine, etc., are not the means by which you can know your HIV status.

I don't see this as an HIV situation.

lilac561 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:15:37 am »

Thank you for your replies, Rob and Andy. So as long as there was no penetration of the anus (which I'm certain of) it is not anal sex, correct? What if he rubbed his penis against the anus? Specifically, I am concerned about precum; even if he didn't enter inside, isn't there a risk of transmission? The reason I'm asking is because, again, I do not remember what exactly took place except for sure there was no penetration.

I volunteered at the 2006 International Aids Conference in Toronto and I have been obsessed and paranoid about the disease ever since. At this point, after weeks of sleepless nights, worrying about it literally every minute of every day and breaking out into tears spontaneously on a daily basis for over 3 weeks I am putting my academic career at risk. I am incapable of doing anything but thinking about this potential illness.

If I did not have the seb derm and throat problems I wouldn't be worried but I do and its driving me nuts.

Ann · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:40:29 am »

lilac,

What you describe - rubbing genitals together or rubbing genitals against the anal area - is called frottage and frottage is not a risk for hiv infection regardless of the presence of pre-cum or even cum.

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies. Once hiv is outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect. Also, hiv can only infect a very few, very specific types of cells and these are not found on the outer genitals or the outer anal area.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER THIS FROTTAGE INCIDENT anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

lilac561 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:51:24 pm »

Thank you very much, Ann. I wish I had used a condom, but since I did not intend on having penetrative sex I did not think about using it. To be honest I didn't even know what oral or anal sex was.The man in question was 8 years older than me and more sexually experienced so he should have known better. But I realize that my health is my responsibility.

Andy, though I am frightened out of my wits, I will heed your advice and get tested tomorrow. This extreme anxiety is ruining my life. I am going to one of the rapid on site testing clinics. Is there anything I need to know? For example regarding it's accuracy?

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2010, 06:06:37 pm »

Quote from: lilac561 on November 14, 2010, 05:51:24 pm

Thank you very much, Ann. I wish I had used a condom, but since I did not intend on having penetrative sex I did not think about using it. To be honest I didn't even know what oral or anal sex was.The man in question was 8 years older than me and more sexually experienced so he should have known better. But I realize that my health is my responsibility.

Andy, though I am frightened out of my wits, I will heed your advice and get tested tomorrow. This extreme anxiety is ruining my life. I am going to one of the rapid on site testing clinics. Is there anything I need to know? For example regarding it's accuracy?

I am sorry you are continuing to feel anxious over this no-risk event. I sincerely hope that you peruse our site, especially the LESSONS on transmission. You do not need to test over this incident. You simply do not acquire HIV through the route you describe.

As Ann pointed out, every sexually active person owes it to him/herself (and to their partner/s) to get a twice yearly STD checkup, including an HIV test. It's the responsible adult thing to do.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:28:20 pm »

Just show up and take the test. I certainly expect you will test negative and yes, the result will be an accurate one.

Good luck.

lilac561 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2010, 02:13:48 am »

I'm pretty sure I have it at this point even before having been tested. The reason for this being i just realized the lymph nodes at the back of my neck are slightly swollen and hard. Also I'm feeling pain while swallowing food and sore throat feeling which means it's probably candida in my esophagus. I'm also feeling pain in my chest. It's really a shame that I am infected without even having had sex. Don't know what to do. I feel so terrible for my family, the stigma associated with this disease is extreme in my culture. I wonder if they will kick me out of the house and hurt me. I hope to at least rely on my two good friends. Tomorrow I will get the results of the CBC which will probably show a low white blood cell count in addition to white blood cells in my urine. I will then tell the doctor my worst fears and they will be confirmed soon after. Definitely won't be sleeping tonight. Tomorrow my life will change forever.

RapidRod · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:09:08 am »

Oh cut the drama. You never had an exposure..

Ann · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2010, 08:23:34 am »

Lilac,

I totally agree with Rodney - cut the drama. There's no way you have hiv from the activities you describe.

You know why they call it "worried sick"? Because when you obsessively worry about something, you can actually make yourself physically ill. So knock off the drama already.

If you continue to feel unwell, see a doctor. It's nothing to do with hiv as you never had a risk.

Ann

lilac561 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2010, 04:36:55 pm »

I apologize for dramatizing however the onset of these symptoms is extremely sudden and unnatural and thus incredibly worrisome

I went to the doctor and unfortunately she did not have my CBC and urine results yet. When I told her about my throat condition she took a look at it and said "There's nothing wrong." I don't understand her indifferent and unconcerned attitude even after I told her I was having difficulty swallowing and pain. I'm surprised she didn't order any tests. It's not normal to have such a throat problem for more than 2 weeks. She did take an oral swab and that's all. I told her my fears about HIV and Seb Derm being indicative of it but she seemed to think NO WAY. But I have read on the forum that some people have contracted it through oral sex, through precum even.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2010, 04:43:58 pm »

Worrying is understandable but it doesn't change the details of your situation as you have reported being one that did not put you at risk. No risk, no risk, no risk.

If your physical symptoms persist then consult with another doctor if you have to. Whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with HIV.

lilac561 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2010, 08:53:47 pm »

Thank you Andy. I'm scared because well, it's a virus and there's just no telling, what if precum spilled in the rectal region?? Would somebody mind explaining anal sex? I just want to be 100% sure that its not what I did.

1) If the penis repeatedly entered the Intergluteal cleft (aka butt crack) in a humping motion does that make it anal sex?

2) From what I have read, anal sex would be very painful and require lube. Is that correct?

THIS has me especially concerned:
"Anal mucus is a naturally occurring fluid that lines the arse. Its main function in the body is to lubricate your shit as it passes. Research indicates that anal mucus is the body fluid with the highest concentration of HIV."
via http://www.gmfa.org.uk/sex/hivandaids/how-hiv-is-transmitted

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2010, 09:11:28 pm »

Once the head of the penis enters the anus, the tension (and it is often considerable) pulls back not only the foreskin, but also tends to fully expose/dilate the opening to the urethra.

When a person with HIV has unprotected anal sex performed on him/her, ans semen exits the urethra and enters the rectum. This potentially infectious fluid can find the relatively few different types of cells to which it can attach. The rectum has very porous material, and like the interior of the vagina, is not meant to protect from an immunological standpoint. The pH of this area is almost unique, in that it is very similar to the vagina. The combination of it's porous nature, the specific pH, and the likelihood of tearing of tissue during sex (especially prolonged penetration) can facilitate HIV infection.

You have NOT had anal sex without knowing ir. Not to be crass, but try putting a finger up there. Try a small carrot. Most penises are as big around as the small carrot. You really think you would not notice that? Especially without lubrication and a great degree of patience?

You would have likely screamed. Which is why anal rape is especially awful. Successful, pleasurable anal sex requires a certain (often a great) amount of patience, lubrication, and foreplay in the specific area.

In short, you did not have anal sex. Anal sex occurs when the penis enters the very tight anal sphincter. This is something that would not escape your attention.

Quote

Anal mucus is a naturally occurring fluid that lines the arse. Its main function in the body is to lubricate your shit as it passes. Research indicates that anal mucus is the body fluid with the highest concentration of HIV."
via http://www.gmfa.org.uk/sex/hivandaids/how-hiv-is-transmitted

You realize that this refers to the anal bottom (i.e. YOU) having infectious fluids, do you not? If YOU are HIV positive, you can pass the virus to your negative partner if he enters your anal ring without a condom. YOUR anus is immaterial in this case, unless you are withholding your own HIV status.

You have done absolutely nothing to put yourself at risk for HIV. I fear that I am unable to offer more evidence of this, and therefore excuse myself from this conversation. I truly wish you peace of mind.

lilac561 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2010, 03:52:21 pm »

JK, thank you so much for the detailed response. It's certainly reassuring. I'm now sure that there was no anal.
And thanks also for clarifying the bit about the mucus. I misunderstood it. Thank you very much. I realize it must be frustrating for you to repeatedly reassure worried wells like me. But I hope you understand that the reason I'm worried is the out of the ordinary health problems I am undergoing. So I guess the only mildly risky activity was performing oral (no semen). However I read in the lessons in transmission that oral is risky mainly for MSM, I don't understand why it makes a difference but okay. It's really weird that everybody says no risk while my body keeps showing symptoms that lead to me to infer yes. The doc said it was not my thyroid so I'm just hoping something is revealed through the CBC.

lilac561 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2010, 12:05:22 am »

CBC + Urine came back normal
no result yet for oral sample, which would reveal cause of throat.
So scared.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2010, 12:22:36 am »

A CBC and urine test would be ineffective for determining HIV status, but you know that.

I am sorry you are so scared. There are many things in this universe to be scared of. In your case, HIV is not currently on that menu. I really hope you find your answers and your peace.

Use a condom for penetrative anal and vaginal sex. avoid HIV. People don't want to believe it's that simple, but it really is.

This is not a world of certainties. No one moves through it without moments of fear, guilt, shame. But the universe does not recognize good or bad. It knows balance and imbalance, arguably. And what CONSTITUTES that balance is anyone's guess... or everyone's guess, I suppose. But this particular viral particle, this HIV, behaves in certain ways. It attaches to specific cells under certain conditions.

Conditions that were not met by the events as you describe them.

I am sorry you are scared. I think when all is said and done, you will find that fear a more formidable foe than HIV. HIV behaves under a strict set of parameters. Fear does not.

lilac561 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2010, 06:16:27 am »

JK those are wise words, but that's especially why I'm scared: the universe does not know good from bad. Subjectively speaking, awful things are happening in the world to people every minute but the universe remains indifferent. I screwed up by getting involved with this man in the first place, falling victim to youthful desires which I had been careful to resist all throughout high school. As soon as I entered first year, I guess I became stupider not smarter.

There are two reasons for my continued feeling of uneasiness. First, sex is not such a clean cut and dry activity. What if while humping, his penis even slightly, even just a quarter of an inch entered the anal region even for a SECOND? I highly doubt that it entered inside based on what you've described because there was definitely no pain or extreme force involved, just a very uncomfortable and strange feeling. (Frankly feel anal sex is not pleasurable) But after reading about how defenseless the anal region is in blocking invaders it jus makes me feel less confident that precum did not enter.

Secondly, and most importantly, I feel like crap. I just think it would a huge coincidence that I get seb derm and then the unusual throat and chest pain, two common symptoms, one after the other. What could it be other than candida in my throat?? So while everything you say makes complete sense and I'm scratching my head as to which activity of mine led me to contract it, I feel like there's no other illness that could be behind these symptoms.

I feel immensely angry at myself and sad that I made such a poor judgement call in choosing the one and only man I got involved with. I did not love him and I should not have become intimate with him and that too without protection.

JK your words in this trying time help more than you'll ever know. While I know it must be awfully frustrating since all your comments seem to be falling on deaf ears, know that they do give me hope. I cannot talk to my parents about this, and while my friends do comfort me they're not too knowledgable on the subject. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I'm truly grateful.

Ann · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2010, 06:32:43 am »

Lilac,

Believe me hun, if you'd been penetrated anally, even just a little bit, you'd KNOW. The first time someone ever tried that on me when I wasn't prepared I nearly went through the ceiling. And that's the experience of pretty much everyone where anal is concerned. I don't expect you to be any different, particularly given your feelings concerning anal not being pleasurable.

Just because you "feel" there could be no other cause to your symptoms other than hiv doesn't make it true. Hiv is the last thing you should be looking at. Stress, for one thing, could be causing each and every one of your symptoms, so chill out already. If you continue to feel unwell, see a doctor. It's nothing to do with hiv.

If you cannot believe our NO RISK assessment, then test at the appropriate time and collect your negative result. In the mean time, you will not be permitted to use this forum to wring your hands over your NO RISK incident and your laundry list of symptoms.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or [size=12]no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.[/size]

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann

lilac561 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2010, 08:24:14 pm »

I'm sorry, Ann. I am getting tested this week for sure. I'm been reading the forums and I'm even more scared now because how do you explain stories of some members such as wtfimpoz and meech??? Seems like they contracted it even though they used protection and in the latter case, through oral sex. I don't mean to rude and embarrass them by specifically calling them out but I was quite shocked.

Ann · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2010, 07:49:17 am »

Lilac,

Just because a person claims to have been infected in a certain way doesn't necessarily make it true. Patient report is notoriously unreliable.

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

Your warning about excessive posting over a no risk situation still stands.

Ann

lilac561 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2010, 02:20:24 pm »

If patient report is notoriously unreliable then I presume my report about my one and only encounter could be unreliable.

Oh my god.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:30:52 pm »

A non-risk situation but you sure are hooked on drama about it.

Ann · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:33:37 pm »

Lilac,

When we talk about patient report being unreliable, we mean that people sometimes cannot bring themselves to admit to a doctor that they have engaged in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

Ann

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2010, 06:08:29 pm »

Quote from: Ann on November 22, 2010, 05:33:37 pm

Lilac,

When we talk about patient report being unreliable, we mean that people sometimes cannot bring themselves to admit to a doctor that they have engaged in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

Ann

This.

Also, people drink. People do crystal meth, cocaine, and other drugs. Men engage in sex with other men, though they profess to be straight and are even married.

There have been several compelling studies which probe the reasons why people distort the truth to doctors, to scientists in studies, and other perceived authority figures. Some is simple need for approval (or to avoid perceived judgment). Some comes from not recalling events that occur during an alcoholic or drug-related blackout.

And given the dicey nature of human sexuality, many people drink or drug to excess in order to garner the nerve they need to do things that might otherwise be taboo, from unprotected sex, to multiple partners, to same-sex encounters.

HIV, moreso than any other pandemic I can think of, seems to illuminate the "soft science" that is patient report. And before the advent of drug therapies that allowed people with HIV to live longer and healthier lives, following couples for a decade or more of healthy sexual function was simply impossible.

Until the ground-breaking Romero and Page-Shafer studies, ALL "in vivo" science was done post-infection, through asking patients what they in fact DID, sexually. add to the already dicey issue of human sexuality with the taboo of homosexuality - and then add to THAT the perceived judgment of not having used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse despite being aware of the risk, and the likelihood of significantly truthful patient report is really rather low.

as times have changed, as HIV treatment has emerged, the methodology for gathering correct transmission theory data has also changed dramatically. This is a good thing, and it has narrowed, rather than widened, HIV transmission vectors.

lilac561 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2010, 07:01:21 pm »

To my surprise and to all of you experts' non-surprise, my test was non-reactive. I sincerely apologize for being melodramatic on this forum but it was very real in my head. I would not put myself through weeks of mental agony if I didn't actually think I had it. The trigger was the SD on my scalp which I looked up on wikipedia and first thing I read was 85% of HIV+ people have it. I felt...why would i get something of fungal origin unless I was immunocompromised? So I did not believe that my fear was unfounded like several of the other stories in the “Am I infected” forum.

Thank you Rod, Andy, Ann, and JK for your kindness and your expertise. I'm sure you hear it all the time, but you guys are making a real difference by educating people about HIV... I have learned a lot. I do not plan to engage in sexual activity until I get married but when I do I will definitely make my potential husband get tested for STIs together. I am grateful for the support and comfort that I received through this forum, I was really happy to have found it because I was just about to pay $20 over at medhelp. I'm not sure why this one does not show up in the top google results when you search "hiv forum."

I am very interested in HIV and AIDS, and I hope to contribute in some capacity to any aspect that I can. Ever since volunteering at the conference, and meeting people and speaking to people who are living with it, I’ve felt immensely empathetic towards people who’ve contracted HIV. The part that hurts and shocks me the most is the stigma. Sex is something that everybody engages in; it is THE most natural thing in the world so everybody is vulnerable to this disease.

So, I’m sorry for being unbearable. I wish you all happy, healthy, long lives. I hope there will be a cure in this lifetime. For now, I will do my small part by practicing safe sex or rather abstaining from it for a while. Ann has scared me proper

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Author Topic: Anal Sex (Read 15191 times)