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(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/forfun_06/3338477911.jpg)
...In order to get along with each other regardless of our differences?
Click HERE for your GIFT of Friendship (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7706.0)
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Accept that I am right and that you are wrong. Just as you were wrong last time and will be next time....I think the problem arises from too much cultural education throughout the sixties and seventies that emphasized that regardless of our background, we are all Americans! and Proud! Any difference of opinion other than topics where difference was allowed, i.e. politics, religion, choice of automobile, was viewed as un-American. Kids play the game with the Sesame Street muppets "One of These Things is Not Like the Other...One of These Things Just Doesn't Belong..." Inadvertently, it seems to have taught them that the other is, therefore, bad, evil, un-American, even. So, what do we need to do in order to get along with each other regardless of our differences....1) Love thy neighbor as thyself....2) Do unto others....
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(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/forfun_06/3338477911.jpg)
Hey Fondeveau...
Who are you?
Click HERE for your GIFT of Friendship (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7706.0)
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Who do you say I am? Who do people say I am?
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Where is your introduction post?
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I never made one?
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Are you going to make one?
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Well, there's bits and pieces of me here and there in different posts...anything in particular you would like to know or that I should include?
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Eldon,
With all due respect, fondeveau is quite a new member here. I get the feeling you're not making him feel very welcome with your interrogation. After all, you didn't post your own intro thread until you'd been here for months.
Ann
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(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/forfun_06/welcome12.gif)
Hi Fondeveau, my name is Eldon and I am also HIV positive. You are not alone with this unfortunate circumstance that has taken place in your life.
Here you will find acceptance, understanding, communication, support, some cries, some laughter and much more. This site is infused with a lot of good information in order to HELP you with any questions that you may have on HIV/AIDS.
From my personal experience here, this is a great group of individuals who will listen as we as answer back to you. I have learned so much more by being here with my interaction with the others.
A few suggestions to HELP you on your Journey:
1. A Positive Mental Attitude
2. A Good Exercise Routine
3. A Good Balanced Diet
4. A Good Strong Support System
Feel free to browse through the many variations of topics here and also share with what is on your mind.
Welcome to our community.
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Who do you say I am? Who do people say I am?
I am totally lost on this one here.
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Yes, I'm quite new and thank you for your welcome, Eldon. And, thank you for your support, Ann. But, I'm sure that its my reply to his post that has sparked Eldon's curiousity as to Who I Am. I don't think his inquiries were meant to be overly forward. And, I did read the forum rules, so I don't want to hijack the thread, etc. I've never been able to talk a lot about myself as it leaves so little room for gossip about others...j/k! But, I will manage an introduction thread at some point.
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Well, Love thy neighbor and do unto others - surely, you recognize the source for those answers?
"Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, 'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.' He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?'" (Matthew 16:13-15)
Before any of the disciples answered, Peter gave his reply: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
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Yes, I'm quite new and thank you for your welcome, Eldon. And, thank you for your support, Ann. But, I'm sure that its my reply to his post that has sparked Eldon's curiousity as to Who I Am. I don't think his inquiries were meant to be overly forward. And, I did read the forum rules, so I don't want to hijack the thread, etc. I've never been able to talk a lot about myself as it leaves so little room for gossip about others...j/k! But, I will manage an introduction thread at some point.
Thank you for the clarification. It sure did spark my level of curiosity and with the picture that you put there as well.
Click HERE for your GIFT of Friendship (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7706.0)
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Yes, I do recognize that and that is a part of my system of values. I am there in spite of the circumstances. Everybody needs somebody sometime.
He also said love your enemies as well.
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I'm pretty sure that I'll go to Hell for saying this, but the picture in post #3 looks kinda homoerotic.
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Timmy,
You got an amazing sense of perception.
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When you asked who I was and I replied who do you say I am...I'm alluding through biblical literature that I am the Christ, and therefore, "right." So, then, I hunted around for a picture of gay Jesus - I'm being naughty...and blasphemous...but, at the same time, being somewhat pious and righteous as I do believe that the answer to your original post is indeed, "Love thy neighbor" and "Do unto others...."
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I'm pretty sure that I'll go to Hell for saying this, but the picture in post #3 looks kinda homoerotic.
You won't go to hell. You will go the UCC - http://www.ucc.org
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Is that where one would go to find a gallery of gay Jesus art? Just ever so curious.
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Love your neighbors and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Very inspiring concept.
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Timmy,
Curiosity = Inquiring minds wants to know.
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I googled "gay jesus" then hit the images link and voila! Dozens and dozens of images of Christ Pantohomo. The UCC is the United Church of Christ - that wonderful mainline denomination that voted last year in support of gay marriage equality.
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Love your neighbors and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Very inspiring concept.
Its the difference between recip/no recip.
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Is that where one would go to find a gallery of gay Jesus art? Just ever so curious.
Nope that is where you would go to find a church that is accepting of big ol' mo's like you...and if you are lucky a husband. ;D
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Nope...not lucky enough for a husband yet.
So UCC is a slightly less gay version of MCC?
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Not less, WAY more...lesbo preachin' and everything.
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I thought most "mainstream" christian denominations tended to view MCC as a church of the poisoned mind- where queens and lesbians and other pervs twisted the Bible for their own hell-bent agendas. Is the UCC given the same regard? I'm not saying that is what I think of these folks. I'm just saying I have heard those Focus on the Family types speak of the MCC this way.
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The MCC was founded by homos primarily for homos. So, in that sense, any church would be less gay than the MCC? I don't believe in separate institutions and I think its high time the gay community reclaim its church heritage by filling pews on Sunday mornings. The UCC is a merger of the Congregational Christian Churches and the Evangelical Reformed Church and is noteworthy for its stance as Open and Affirming of LGBT people and support of Marriage Equality.
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Interesting.
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That's what I meant by 'less gay version of the MCC'. MCC was by gays for gays...and this seems to be from the mainstream reaching out.
Eldon, I hope this isn't too much of a highjack of this thread. If so, I wouldn't mind discussing it in a new thread or through PM's. Regardless of my own personal views on religion, I find the subject of such an outreach to be worth discussing.
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After all it is about doing right? The original question is what can we do? This is one of the many answers to the question. Please proceed. I will have my dinner now and come back an join you all in the conversaton.
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After all it is about doing right? The original question is what can we do? ...
A primary tenet within the UCC is "that which unites us is greater than that which divides us." The belief is not in "tests" of faith, but in "testimonies" of living witness - not in the sense of "Are you saved? Accept Jesus NOW! - but, in getting along despite our differences by loving our neighbors and doing unto others....
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I take it you are pretty involved in this denomination? I am wondering what the response to other mainstream denominations is to all of this with the UCC. Is the UCC the denominaton that had the TV campaign with the velvet rope last year? I remember seeing something like that on TV that was very obviously depicting open doors to all types of races and orientations.
(As a sidenote: I was trying to look into the above questions myself, but got sidetracked by google images of 'gay Jesus'. It gets really wierd after so many pages. Then again, it was kinda wierd from page one.)
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Yep, that's us! Well, the early in US History, the UCC's forbears were castigated by other denominations for its leadership in the fight against black slavery. So, we're used to other denominations taking hundreds of years to follow our lead! More conservative denominations believe that the UCC is a "gay" church, but within the UCC the question is not whether our neighbor is gay, but how should we love him. The only answer that we can justify is "as Thyself."
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Now here is somthing to focus on. Loving your neighbor in spite of. Instead of all of the condeming that is going on, the initiative needs to be taken in order to lift up that individual in spite of his/her faults or their personal relations.
It is an excellent example of forming a UNIFYING result.
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Very profoundly disturbing how that ad was actually banned for being 'too controversial'. I mean...any message of inclusion (by churches or anyone) being deemed too controversial? Hmmm...
Dinner break. I shall return after eating and watching, ahem...some of the greatest stories ever told.
(READ: Housewives and Borthers and Sisters! LOL)
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There needs to be some form of resolution made in order to address the many contrversial issues that exist today. What are some good ideas to assist with a resolution for this?
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Hi Eldon,
I probably should just ignore this thread, -- but I seemingly can't.........
What the hell are you talking about here??
Even if you forget that "controversy is in the eye of the beholder", there is any endless number of "controversial issues" in the world today. Perhaps you could help eliminate some future ones by asking clear and articulate questions that one can answer.
I'm just saying......
Mike
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We were discussing the TV campaign that they had last year.
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I loved my neighbor and that's what got me this gawd damn aids.
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So, did your neighbor do unto you as he would presumably have others do and disclose?
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http://news.ucc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=775&Itemid=54
UCC and U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops co-sponsor major forum on religion, media
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my brain fucking hurts right now and you aren't making any sense... of course, I highly medicated and not even drinking.
sad but tragic. My new prescriptions make me feel like I'm back on the sustiva.
Bleh, back to the doctor again... one friggin step forward and two damn steps back.
But at least I had fun getting here. Oh, those were the days.
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make religion illegal and shoot all the believers ::) that's what I call spiritual cleansing....
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Very profoundly disturbing how that ad was actually banned for being 'too controversial'. I mean...any message of inclusion (by churches or anyone) being deemed too controversial? Hmmm...
Dinner break. I shall return after eating and watching, ahem...some of the greatest stories ever told.
(READ: Housewives and Borthers and Sisters! LOL)
Oh, never saw the brothers and sisters before..."I'm not gay, but that doesn't mean I don't think you're hot..." Whew!
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Bailey,
There is more than one level to Love. It was an out-of-character act that had occured between you and your neighbor. This kind of love is above the level of the Sexual Kind of Love. It is inside of you. It has been with you since the day you were biologically conceived.
My Confession to YOU: I care a lot about you and I see a lot in you and it is you who will make it however you want it to be. It is there within you you just have to look for it and you will find it.
All of this is said out of Love.
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that's what the Christians said during the Crusades all the while slaughtering the heathens.
Methinks you do not know me well enough to determine in or out of character.
Besides, I'm an atheist.
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Oh, never saw the brothers and sisters before..."I'm not gay, but that doesn't mean I don't think you're hot..." Whew!
So I take it you took a peek at Brothers and Sisters? I am totally hooked. Housewives is an ongoing addiction. I've gone for years barely watching any televison at all. Not so these days...5 or 6 I see each week.
But for the forum on religion and media...that's a tricky area if asking the FCC to intervene on the behalf of religious denominations. I am apalled that a network would decline the UCC's ad based partly on the current administration's stance on marriage. What does THAT say about governmental influence on religious expression? Eek.
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Is there room to get to know you better? Bailey?
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Please pass the Thorazine.
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Lisa: When you're done with it, please pass it over to me. Thanks so much. I think it's time to watch those edited preacher videos again. DingoBoi's "I loved my neighbor"post made me think of the last time I had a good laugh. Although, on the down side, I'm sorry to hear, DingoBoi, you're having med issues. I hope things straighten out.
Tim, Brothers and Sisters is quite good. I've managed to watch it, without planning to, a couple of times and it is well cast. Sally is doing a great job. Rob and Calista are definitely holding their own and soon, I suspect, will be holding each other. I, too, don't watch much TV, but this show makes sitting for a spell easy.
Em
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We were discussing the TV campaign that they had last year.
Eldon,
You still did not answer my question in a way that gives me any understanding to what this thread is about. What TV campaign are you talking about -- and who is "they" (I'm assuming the people behind this mystery campaign, but I hate assuming). I am seeing nothing in this thread that discusses any campaign, and your original post only referred to "controversial issues". I'm not sure what it is that you are trying to do with this thread or some of your others, but you might end up being far more successful if YOU speak with CLARITY and stop having others decipher your agenda (which we probably get wrong far more frequently than not).
Mike
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'O see ye not yon narrow road,
So think beset with thorns and briers?
That is the path of righteousness,
Tho after it but few enquires.
'And see not ye that braid braid road,
That lies across the lily leven?
That is the path of wickedness,
Tho some call it the road to heaven.
'And see not ye that bonny road,
That winds about the fernie brae?
That is the road to fair Elfland,
Where thou and I this night maun gae.
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I'm pretty sure that I'll go to Hell for saying this, but the picture in post #3 looks kinda homoerotic.
Trust me Tim when I tell you, THAT is not the reason you are going to hell!!! LOL
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I like the sounds of your denomination. As a mostly firm ANTI believer its nice to see that some out there preach what I think God and Jesus would have wanted. I think there main message was... DONT BE A DICK!
And as Bill Maher says... God is simply grown mans imaginary friend!
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Mike,
The original question was..."What do we need to in order to get along with each other?" "Regardless or our differences?"
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So I take it you took a peek at Brothers and Sisters? I am totally hooked. Housewives is an ongoing addiction. I've gone for years barely watching any televison at all. Not so these days...5 or 6 I see each week.
Gonna put that show on the TIVO to do list!
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Eldon,
You still did not answer my question in a way that gives me any understanding to what this thread is about. What TV campaign are you talking about -- and who is "they" (I'm assuming the people behind this mystery campaign, but I hate assuming). I am seeing nothing in this thread that discusses any campaign, and your original post only referred to "controversial issues". I'm not sure what it is that you are trying to do with this thread or some of your others, but you might end up being far more successful if YOU speak with CLARITY and stop having others decipher your agenda (which we probably get wrong far more frequently than not).
Mike
A new television ad by the United Church of Christ that stresses the church's diversity has already been rejected by major networks as "too controversial," the second time a UCC ad has been banned from the airwaves.
The 30-second "Ejector" ad features several people -- a black woman, a gay couple, a Middle Eastern man, an elderly man in a walker -- who are ejected from their church pews.
"God doesn't reject people," the ad says. "Neither do we."
The new ad, which cost about $1.5 million to make, will debut on April 3, but not on ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox. The three networks rejected the commercial as an inappropriate "advocacy" ad because of its references to homosexuality, race and ethnicity.
Last year, the networks rejected a similar ad featuring bouncers behind a velvet rope keeping various people out of a church.
"The message of the commercial is simple," the Rev. John Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president, said Monday (March 27). "No matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here at the United Church of Christ."
Thomas said he found it "odd and bewildering" that the ads would be rejected. The UCC has launched a new Web site, www.accessibleairwaves.org, to prod the networks towards including mainstream religious voices.
The ad will be shown for at least three weeks, with hopes to extend its run through Mother's Day (May 14). It has been accepted on a dozen cable networks, including CNN, the Discovery Channel and A&E.
Ron Buford, who directs the UCC's "God is Still Speaking" campaign, said the 1.3 million-member church was not trying to take a swipe at other churches by billing itself as more welcoming and diverse.
"It does not mean to suggest that other churches reject people and that we have not; we have," Buford said. "We too can forget our core business, and these ads speak to us as well."
See the ads at http://www.stillspeaking.com/media/
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I like the sounds of your denomination. As a mostly firm ANTI believer its nice to see that some out there preach what I think God and Jesus would have wanted. I think there main message was... DONT BE A DICK!
And as Bill Maher says... God is simply grown mans imaginary friend!
Well, the raison d'etre for many institutions, organizations, structures, movements, etc is to answer questions regarding man's relationship not only to his fellow man (i.e. law, government, religion etc.), but to his Creator (most definitely religion here); to his habitat (architecture, environmentalism) - so Eldon's question as to What Do We Need To Do could have answers framed in different perspectives. I think the problem with "Don't be a dick!" is that it uses a subjective standard as what actions comprise being a dick...lol.
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Unbelieveable. So a second ad had also now been rejected? I remember the first ad clearly. It did not make any message beyond "God welcomes all, and so do we''. This new one sounds like it does the same. I am failing to grasp what the objectionable part of that is.
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It sounds like adjustments are in order on their part.
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I'm not sure what you mean, Eldon - adjustments are needed are on their part....it sounds to me that if someone "rejected" your commercial you would change your commercial. While Jesus says turn the other cheek, he doesn't say to change who you are or what you believe in. If your solution to what we need to do to get along despite our differences, is to change your differences then I believe you would be what is known as a syncophant. So gay should become straight so that others can get along despite their differences...black should become white...
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A commercial can be presented with the same intent with a different approach. Change is adjustment to the certain variables that exists. The entire marketing indusrty makes adjustments on a daily basis in order to compensate with the flow of the consumer market today.
No one is saying that it has to do with your private life. In this situation it is no ones business what goes on behind closed doors. What IS important is the intent of making the difference and to get the job done right the first time in order to find a effective solution to suffice for the needs that are in existence.
"What Can I do today to make a better Tommorrow?"
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Sigh ... i guess i am just too cynical to take anything presented in a commercial seriously, and find it profoundly disappointing that people either:
1. take them seriously or
2. feel they are so much more intelligent than everyone else that they worry about whether or not commercials are sending some kind of profoundly important message to the masses
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Well said. The TRUTH cuts like a knife.
"What Can I do today to make a better Tommorrow?"
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An inherent part of a message is the way that message is packaged and delivered. Some insults are best served hot, some best served cold. Yet, the message remains. The question then devolves into who should decide whether the message is delivered at all, especially over public airwaves. Its not a question of "mak[ing] adjustments on a daily basis in order to compensate with the flow of the consumer market today."
What IS important is the intent of making the difference and to get the job done right the first time in order to find a effective solution to suffice for the needs that are in existence.
"What Can I do today to make a better Tommorrow?"
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I have no idea what job, what effective solution or what needs you have identified. Your solution may be that of a harried mother who is tired of her six children bickering, "Everybody sit down and SHUT UP!" There, now everyone is getting along despite their differences....
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With time you will find that neither does he.
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Sigh ... i guess i am just too cynical to take anything presented in a commercial seriously, and find it profoundly disappointing that people either:
1. take them seriously or
2. feel they are so much more intelligent than everyone else that they worry about whether or not commercials are sending some kind of profoundly important message to the masses
Certainly, most commercials would tell you that you need to drive the right car, wear the right clothes, use the right toilet paper and toothpaste and indeed, the world would be a better place. Networks are used to and comfortable handling that type of message and I imagine despite your protests above, that you have been influenced in your selection of merchandise and services by commercials..
The underlying message in the UCC commercials is that "No matter who you are, no matter where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." Simple. Surprisingly, profound, at least enough make network executives squirm. And yet, a part of the puzzle as to What Do We Need To Do...To Get Along Despite Our Differences...
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In every situation there IS a middle ground. It just has to be found.
"What Can I do today to make a better Tomorrow?"
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Person A: I believe in the death penalty for criminals.
Person B: I do not believe in the death penalty for criminals.
There is no middle ground for these two positions. Yet, the surprising thing is that no middle ground need be found for these two people to get along despite their differences. Rather, each must merely admit that while they disagree with the other's position, they respect the other's right to that position.
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What's that saying?
"A good compromise leaves everybody mad."
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Person A: I am a top.
Person B: I am a top.
Ah, shit - compromise and take turns. Grin and bear it. Take it like a man. Clearly, the middle ground doesn't work here.
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1.As much as possible, try to let go of the blame/shame game. Begin practising this with yourself. :)
2.Don't believe everything you think.
3. Have some understanding of your strengths and weaknesses, and be able to share this information. (see 1.)
4. We're all doing the best that we can, all the time.
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Sigh ... i guess i am just too cynical to take anything presented in a commercial seriously, and find it profoundly disappointing that people either:
1. take them seriously or
2. feel they are so much more intelligent than everyone else that they worry about whether or not commercials are sending some kind of profoundly important message to the masses
While I believe the vast majority of commercials are merely vehicles for brainwashing sheep into believing their lives will be improved by a toothpaste, mouthwash, deodorant, brand of underwear, car, etc. there have always been exceptions. The UCC commercials definitely fall into the latter category. TV is the most common form of infotainment for the majority of US Americans and PSAs/commercials about aging, cancer, AIDS, pollution, racism, sexual discrimination, etc. have been successful in altering some peoples' views or at least sparking a thought in their consumeristic heads.
I really don't understand no. 2 -- who said or implied they were more intelligent than anyone else? I don't see that in the thread anywhere. Why shouldn't advertisers such as the UCC want to promote acceptance of others? The question isn't whether the message is profoundly important or not, it's whether the message is valid. I think the message of acceptance is extremely valid in our society today as much as it ever was.
For the record, I don't watch cable, satellite, or network TV so if not for the link above I wouldn't ever see the commercials anyway. If I were stuck watching TV and one of those commercials came on it would hold my interest a lot more than most of the crap shoved down the throats of your "average" viewer.
As an atheist I usually pay attention to organized religion only when it tries to infringe on my rights. As fondeveau pointed out, however, the UCC was one of the first religions to speak against slavery, a view unshared by mainstream religions at the time. There was no TV to get the message out then but slowly society understood the enormity of enslaving fellow humans and the practice was abolished (in its then-present form -- now slavery is more a matter of class). TV has the capability to reach millions of people with the same message at once, which is why I applaud commercials like those of the UCC, which attempt to foster the slow but positive changes still needed in our society. TV is a vast wasteland, yes, but even among all the hours/days/years of shit there are occasionally a few worthwhile minutes.
Boo
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While I believe the vast majority of commercials are merely vehicles for brainwashing sheep into believing their lives will be improved by a toothpaste, mouthwash, deodorant, brand of underwear, car, etc.
I really don't understand no. 2 -- who said or implied they were more intelligent than anyone else? I don't see that in the thread anywhere.
TV is a vast wasteland, yes, but even among all the hours/days/years of shit there are occasionally a few worthwhile minutes.
Boo
Boo... Assuming you actually believe statements 1 and 3, then it follows that you would not understand the implication I made (in my statement 2) as they demonstrate exactly the kind of intellectual superiority complex to which I refer. That being said, I am guilty of such things myself.
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Benj: Better yet...What IS the truth?
"What Can I do today to make a better Tomorrow?"
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Benj: Better yet...What IS the truth?
I'm an empiricist... so I would say the truth is that which is experienceable and verifiable through observation. Facts, in other words.
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Benj: Take A Bow.
"What Can I do today to make a better Tomorrow?"
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Boo... Assuming you actually believe statements 1 and 3, then it follows that you would not understand the implication I made (in my statement 2) as they demonstrate exactly the kind of intellectual superiority complex to which I refer. That being said, I am guilty of such things myself.
Um, your initial post seems to be an example of the superiority complex you ascribe to me...
I've spent my entire life assiduously avoiding intellectuals. I am not superior to anyone, intellectually or otherwise, even George W. Bush, for we are all fallible humans.
I tried to join MENSA but was rejected. My IQ is too high.
Boo
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Don't scare me...for a second there I thought it was another Lazarus rising.
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Don't scare me...for a second there I thought it was another Lazurus rising.
Ok, Aunty Doxie~~~ You fooled me, I thought Eldon was back. I have been wondering where he has been? All I can say is that I hope everything is ok with him.
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Person A: I am a top.
Person B: I am a top.
Ah, shit - compromise and take turns. Grin and bear it. Take it like a man. Clearly, the middle ground doesn't work here.
Maybe no middle ground, but an easy solution...
Person A: I am a bottom.
Person B: I am a bottom.
Solution: Go find person C who is at least versatile (and hopefully a top)
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Maybe no middle ground, but an easy solution...
Person A: I am a bottom.
Person B: I am a bottom.
Solution: Go find person C who is at least versatile (and hopefully a top)
I vote for versatility and try to practice it in my own life. Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of gay folks are one or the other. Invite me to your next orgy - ;D