POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: UK_SL on December 09, 2009, 02:20:21 am
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Since being diagnosed I've been seeking support / advice here on the web in certain chat rooms, I'm getting a scary amount of men that are looking for someone to infect them. I can not believe there are people out there that want this illness - they must be seriously disturbed in my opinion.
I asked one guys why he wanted to be HIV positive and do you know what he said? "I want to be HIV positive because it's the ultimate mark of being gay"! I told him that I thought he needed some professional help and that it was people like him who are spreading this illness around.
Let me just Finnish by saying to all those "GIFT GIVERS / RECEIVERS" - HIV is not a gift, it is a chronic terminal illness that changes your life forever.
Rant over !!
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all i can say is that they need big time therapy,sad to see people spreading hiv when others are suffering from it,its a crime towards oneself.i have no respect for such people EVER.
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Well , I'm not gay, heterosexual and hiv+. If anyone out there can take it off me and leave me free of the virus, feel free.
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I don't think it really works like that sam66, if only. LOL! I am also hetrosexual and my girlfriend in negative even though we have never used protection before I knew about me>
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Just kidding SL, I too have come across ( may be I should word that differently ) some idiots on some sites. I don't think a lot of them are +ve, although they claim to be. They are just playing games. Really sick people.
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How's a straight guy running into gay gift givers? I'm gay and I rarely run into them unless I'm purposely trolling bugshare.net.
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I had a guy who was confined to a wheelchair who wanted me to infect him. You would think this guy would have enough problems without having HIV as well.
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How's a straight guy running into gay gift givers? I'm gay and I rarely run into them unless I'm purposely trolling bugshare.net.
Well then may I say you have been very lucky Miss Philicia, I'm not saying that every person I chat to is looking for someone to infect them and it's also not always gay men, I've had a couple of women asking me too, and no I don't troll bugshare.net - infact I've never heard that there was such a site until you mentioned it.
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thanks for that info Miss Philicia,
I see your point, this is the first time i come across this subject . i shall avoid those sites you mention.
I don't understand how anyone can regard being +ve as ultimate expression of being gay, when hiv has no preference of sexual orientation.
I asked one guys why he wanted to be HIV positive and do you know what he said? "I want to be HIV positive because it's the ultimate mark of being gay"!
i have met people on the personals site here, who claim they are +ve, but i have my doubts
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Regardless of you sexual orientation, anyone that seeks out illness weather it be HIV or just the common cold is in serious need of some physiological help because they are obviously craving attention.
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Oh, while I agree they need very heavy psychological help I think it's more about wanting to fit in to a social group because of long standing self-esteem issues that make them feel worthless. But they're also very addicted to the fantasy of it, and while I personally can't understand the fantasy it's definitely a huge deal for them. Keep in mind like anything of this nature on the internet we have no way of ascertaining how much of it is bullshit that they never really engage in, but just like writing about it on the internet.
But it does definitely go on, I just have trouble really knowing how large the reality is in terms of numbers. Also, there are many, many people who might now verbalize the fantasy and actively participate on bugshare, but it's still a subconscious desire and leads to ever more risky behavior, etc. You know, how self esteem issues lead to meth induced orgy bends for 3 days straight every weekend. It's really only a degree or two away from bugshare I guess if you want to make that argument.
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Discussion could use some rigor
1) Gift Givers - are people who will pass HIV to HIV- parnters at the partners request.
2) Bug chasers - are HIV- people who want to be infected.
Probably two different psychologies involved, generally.
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Yeah sorry, my psychological comment was aimed at the chasers. I've not thought to hard about the motivation of the givers.
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I think its all a plot by the Rev. Phelps to discredit homosexual HIV groups.
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I once encountered a guy who wanted to become poz . I talked to him at length about why he wanted to become infected . As near as I could tell with this individual it was his fear of HIV that motivated him . He was so scared of HIV that he really couldn't consider safe sex as an option to remain negative and simply wanted to get what he thought as inevitable over and done with . He was very young and was only OK with the conversation while I listened to him . When I gently tried to get him to see HIV for what it is from my perspective he became hostile and shut down . It was quite upsetting to me and very sad .
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Thanks for creating this thread, I was having trouble coming up with a gift idea for the white horse gift exchange they're having at work next week.
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LOL Skeebo .... The gift that keeps on giving .
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I consider the chasers to be mentally screwed in the head (naturally or chemically-induced if you know what I mean). They need to get to a shrink. They're as sane as those people that feel a psychological need to amputate their limbs (these people really exist).
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I've had at least 5 guys on poz.com personals send me messages about having bb sex. I assumed they were poz at first. I wouldn't do it even then, because it is possible to be infected with another strain. Two were guys who all said they didn't know their status. They said they assume they are poz.
I don't understand it myself. I can't imagine wanting any virus. Some people progress very fast, too. I saw a documentary on HBO or somewhere like 3 years ago. I think it was called Bug Chasers or something like that. Most of the guys featured said it was badge of honor and others said they just wanted to get the infection over with. They knew they were eventually going to get it and wanted to get it now.
You can probably google the documentary I'm talking about. It was very interesting.
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I remember reading about one of these websites, I think it was bugchaser.com, on Something Awful's weekend web once. It's just something that I've never been able to understand. I wouldn't consider HIV a "badge" as being gay, especially not in this day & age when so many heterosexuals are now infected with the virus. My boyfriend is straight & contracted HIV from unprotected sex with a woman, so we don't exactly see it as a "badge of honor" for him. And rather than looking at contracting HIV as being something that's inevitable, why not just practice safe sex & not worry about it? It just doesn't make any sense. This disease has really taken a toll on our lives & the lives of a select few of our loved ones (who we've disclosed his status to) since we found out, & I can't imagine someone deliberately trying to contract a chronic, possibly fatal disease.
And it's funny this thread should come up today, as my boyfriend was talking to the HIV resource lady in our area yesterday & she told him that she had recently saw a young couple this week who had been diagnosed as positive. She said they were both extremely excited about it, because it meant they would no longer have to work & would be able to receive disability. WTF??? I would much rather be healthy & be able to work than constantly having to worry about dealing with a chronic disease all the time. And my boyfriend's doing every thing in his power to continue his schooling so he can get a better job to help provide a better life for us. I guess some people just have different perspectives on things. And oh, the other odd thing that the couple said was that they believe they contracted it from the guy's brother. I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell one would contract HIV from their own brother, aside from IV drug use. This is Kentucky, after all. ;)
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While I don't like bugchasing, I hope you won't be offended by my stating that in general most heterosexuals have absolutely no clue of the isolation that many homosexuals go through growing up, so you can't really understand the psychological need that might drive such folks to engage in self-destructive behavior simply to forge a connection with someone else. Yes, it's a completely overboard response to this isolation, but I think there are many gay people that have a sort of trauma disorder from their childhood. I'm not going to claim that every bugchaser has this, but I'd really not be surprised if most do.
Never underestimate the unsavory hardships that affect how gay people deal with their sexuality and the ramifications of that, even if they do a good job trying to appear well-adjusted. There's a reason so many turn to lots of booze and drugs, so why should chasing the Big Bug be any different?
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Excellent point Miss P .
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While I don't like bugchasing, I hope you won't be offended by my stating that in general most heterosexuals have absolutely no clue of the isolation that many homosexuals go through growing up, so you can't really understand the psychological need that might drive such folks to engage in self-destructive behavior simply to forge a connection with someone else. Yes, it's a completely overboard response to this isolation, but I think there are many gay people that have a sort of trauma disorder from their childhood. I'm not going to claim that every bugchaser has this, but I'd really not be surprised if most do.
Never underestimate the unsavory hardships that affect how gay people deal with their sexuality and the ramifications of that, even if they do a good job trying to appear well-adjusted. There's a reason so many turn to lots of booze and drugs, so why should chasing the Big Bug be any different?
No, I'm not offended, & I understand what you're saying. I suppose bug chasing wouldn't be too much different than any other type of self-destructive behavior. I've done the drug abuse thing myself several years ago (in recovery now), & I know from personal experience that you can never get better until you address whatever emotional/mental issues you have going on. I just hate to think that people would choose to go this route. At least with drug & alcohol abuse, cutting, eating disorders, etc., if you stop, it's over, so to speak. But HIV is forever. Even if you did get better mentally & emotionally, HIV is something that won't just go away. But, when you speak of childhood trauma, I'm assuming one of the things that is part of that equation is sexual molestation. While I had my own issues to work out from my childhood, I was never sexually abused in any way. So I honestly cannot possibly fathom what that kind of trauma would cause to an individual, but I do know that it results in a lot of the victims acting out sexually when they become adults. So that might also explain the bug chaser thing too.
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But, when you speak of childhood trauma, I'm assuming one of the things that is part of that equation is sexual molestation.
....in general most heterosexuals have absolutely no clue of the isolation that many homosexuals go through growing up, so you can't really understand...
Never underestimate the unsavory hardships that affect how gay people deal with their sexuality and the ramifications of that, even if they do a good job trying to appear well-adjusted. There's a reason so many turn to lots of booze and drugs
Though I would never dare put words into Philly's mouth, ;) I believe your misconception about molestation is exactly what Miss P was trying to explain.
Just being gay in a straight world is the cause of the trauma. Talking with many others, I've always believed that the people that stigmatize us the most for being gay are our very own parents. After years and years of your parents, grandparents, school mates, pastors etc, heck just total strangers on the street all constantly berating you and telling you how horrible you are for being a "dirty faggot", it pretty much makes you hate yourself too. Internalizing that kind of hate leads to a lot of self-destructive behavior.
I know of at least 8 people in whom that self-hatred was so unbearable rather than booze, drugs, or bugchasing, just straight-away chose suicide to end their trauma. I'm sure it's that same self-hatred that plays into some gay men struggling with coming to grips with being HIV poz or looking to blame someone else. The parallels between disclosing your status and coming out of the closet should be obvious and explains why some controversy even exists in that situation too.
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Though I would never dare put words into Philly's mouth, ;) I believe your misconception about molestation is exactly what Miss P was trying to explain.
Just being gay in a straight world is the cause of the trauma. Talking with many others, I've always believed that the people that stigmatize us the most for being gay are our very own parents. After years and years of your parents, grandparents, school mates, pastors etc, heck just total strangers on the street all constantly berating you and telling you how horrible you are for being a "dirty faggot", it pretty much makes you hate yourself too. Internalizing that kind of hate leads to a lot of self-destructive behavior.
I know of at least 8 people in whom that self-hatred was so unbearable rather than booze, drugs, or bugchasing, just straight-away chose suicide to end their trauma. I'm sure it's that same self-hatred that plays into some gay men struggling with coming to grips with being HIV poz or looking to blame someone else. The parallels between disclosing your status and coming out of the closet should be obvious and explains why some controversy even exists in that situation too.
I'm apologize, I wasn't trying to infer that everyone who is gay was molested as a child. I just meant that sexual abuse, regardless of whether or not someone is straight or gay, often times causes people to act out sexually as adults.
I guess being straight I don't always think about that particular type of self-hatred. There have been times in my life where I've felt like I was a complete failure & fuck-up & that no one gave a shit about whether or not I lived or died, so I can understand self-hatred somewhat. But not that kind of intense self-hatred that you describe.
I also find it very upsetting that people in our society can be that cruel to each other, even when it comes to their own family. I do have a few male gay friends who've always had strained relationships with their fathers, but usually are okay with their mothers. One guy even told me he had "daddy issues". I had one best friend who was a lesbian & she ended up acting out in all sorts of terrible ways. She always seemed to be hurting & I didn't feel like there was anything I could do for her. I remember being at her house once & her parents didn't want us to be alone in her bedroom together, I guess because they thought we were going to start having crazy lesbian sex or something. And if her parents were like that with me, a straight female, I can only imagine what they were like when it came to actual lesbian girlfriends. Anyway, she could never stay clean (I met her in rehab) & that's why we parted ways. I often wonder what became of her. So while I can't quite understand the pain that gay people go through, I have witnessed it first hand & I can certainly see where you guys are coming from.
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What country gives disability automatically to HIV+ people? Those young people seem to live in the past.
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Oh, pshaw.
You see a lot of "straight guy seeks other straight guy for sex" ads on those websites too. Sure, the ads exist, but that doesn't mean cock-thirsty straight men are real.
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Regardless of you sexual orientation, anyone that seeks out illness weather it be HIV or just the common cold is in serious need of some physiological help because they are obviously craving attention.
I love how we all get on our moral high horses when we discuss the issue of bug chasers and givers. I have a slightly different and controversial take on the issue. IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses. I know most don't share my opinion, but don't really care what you think.
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I love how we all get on our moral high horses when we discuss the issue of bug chasers and givers. I have a slightly different and controversial take on the issue. IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses. I know most don't share my opinion, but don't really care what you think.
Nonsense. Sex is a very inefficient way of contracting HIV. If I were consiously or subconsiously seeking out HIV I'd have gone for something with a much higher likelihood of taking -- like blood transfusions or something.
Most of us were seeking sex -- a few were seeking to get high. We might have accepted that HIV was a risk, but that's a far cry from seeking it out.
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I do think this mainly gay bugchasers "scene" that eroticize HIV is a more or less an urban myth.. I am sure some neg folks verbalize it in chatroom, forums or post ads, etc, but if one really wants to get infected he just needs to go to the nearest sauna, sex club or even "busy" toilet and, er, take a few loads and with such high HIV prevalence rate in some cities (DC, for example) I am sure he will get converted in no time..
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I think it is a misconception that people with HIV were obviously promiscous. I've heard many guys say the top tricked them by taking the condom off without them knowing. I don't think they were chasing it.
As for the disability thing-- something like 80% are turned down for SSDI or SSI on the initial claim and first appeal. Most have to wait 2 yrs to go before a judge. You have to have clear evidence that you are disabled. It isn't that easy to get it--at least not in my state.
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I've heard many guys say the top tricked them by taking the condom off without them knowing.
Should I roll my eyes now or later?
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Nonsense. Sex is a very inefficient way of contracting HIV. If I were consiously or subconsiously seeking out HIV I'd have gone for something with a much higher likelihood of taking -- like blood transfusions or something.
Most of us were seeking sex -- a few were seeking to get high. We might have accepted that HIV was a risk, but that's a far cry from seeking it out.
Sex is a very inefficient way of contracting HIV? You have got to be kidding. Where on earth did you come up with that?
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I have to admit the post infection morality some seem to acquire along with the virus never ceases to amaze me. Anything posted online is as real as you want it to be. Whether by deceit or design it all boils down to too many peckers up the ol' pooper.
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While I don't like bugchasing, I hope you won't be offended by my stating that in general most heterosexuals have absolutely no clue of the isolation that many homosexuals go through growing up, so you can't really understand the psychological need that might drive such folks to engage in self-destructive behavior simply to forge a connection with someone else. Yes, it's a completely overboard response to this isolation, but I think there are many gay people that have a sort of trauma disorder from their childhood. I'm not going to claim that every bugchaser has this, but I'd really not be surprised if most do.
Never underestimate the unsavory hardships that affect how gay people deal with their sexuality and the ramifications of that, even if they do a good job trying to appear well-adjusted. There's a reason so many turn to lots of booze and drugs, so why should chasing the Big Bug be any different?
I can relate to that Miss Philicia,
In the mid 90s my family was pushing so hard for me to get engaged then marry someone (a woman ofcourse) a.s.a.p,that too woke of the feeling of my childhood trauma of my fathers suicide when i was 5 and the feeling that i was abandoned and no good at all, i was so depressed,frustrated and angry,which led me to live on tranquilizers,sleeping pills,and then on top of that came the alcohol,and the parting to escape reality.i got fed up to the point that i started going to bathhouses drunk and didnt give a damn about the risks am putting my self through,i new HIV was there in a dark room waiting,i just thought if it happens and i catch it,atleast they will get off my case forever and accept the fact that thier boy can no longer marry anymore.
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Sex is a very inefficient way of contracting HIV? You have got to be kidding. Where on earth did you come up with that?
Statistics may not be your forte. But it's the truth.
Sure, some people get HIV after one sexual exposure -- but the odds of that are actually quite small. To get your odds above 50% you need to keep reinvesting your time in sex. Jeez, think of all that time wasted getting pounded when one could have been exploring one's true interests -- like vacuuming or decoupage or (shudder) model trains... Whereas one carefully chosen blood transfusion and it's almost guaranteed! ;)
Sarcasm aside, my point was that people may accept the risk of acquiring HIV as part of sex, but they are in it for the sex rather than the bug.
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Statistics may not be your forte. But it's the truth.
Sure, some people get HIV after one sexual exposure -- but the odds of that are actually quite small. To get your odds above 50% you need to keep reinvesting your time in sex. Jeez, think of all that time wasted getting pounded when one could have been exploring one's true interests -- like vacuuming or decoupage or (shudder) model trains... Whereas one carefully chosen blood transfusion and it's almost guaranteed! ;)
Sarcasm aside, my point was that people may accept the risk of acquiring HIV as part of sex, but they are in it for the sex rather than the bug.
Statistics? Never seen anyone contract HIV from statistics but I have from unprotected anal and vaginal sex.
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I adore some good decoupage.
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What country gives disability automatically to HIV+ people? Those young people seem to live in the past.
There are A LOT of people in my area on disability. I have no idea why. In the small town where I'm originally from (about 30 miles away from where I live now), there was a study done that revealed about 80% of the town's population was disabled. And people wonder why all the factories & stores keep closing there. When I go home for lunch & watch all the court shows all I see are adverts for disability lawyers, so there's definetly not a shortage of help getting disability. Maybe it's because this area of Kentucky is economically poor & depressed. We haven't quite achieved the level of destitude that Eastern Kentucky has, but we're getting there. I see young people all the time who are drawing disability fo their "nerves". From what I've seen, the easiest & quickest to ways get disability (around here at least) are to claim mental illness or Fibromyalgia. My guess is that this is probably because both of these diseases can be so vague that the SSA just seems to have given up & started awarding SSI to anyone & everyone who claims they are suffering from them. That's not to say that I haven't seen mentally ill people who are truly unable to work, because they do exist, but they are few & far between. Most of the people I come across are like me, suffering from depression & anxiety. The medication & therapy has worked fine for me for several years, although from time to time I do have my issues. But that's what shrinks are for. But most of the people I see here who draw disability are poor & uneducated & seem to think that they have no choice, & they're already used to the lifestyle since most of their families, including their parents, are disabled also.
Anyway, my guess is that because HIV is probably still considered a terminal illness (it is isn't it?), maybe it's easier for people (in this area anyway) to draw disability for it. When you have lawyers around every corner who are willing to "FIGHT TO GET YOU THE MONEY YOU DESERVE!" & doctors who have no problem writing out statements for anything & everything you ask for, it's no suprise that people would probably think drawing disability for something like HIV would be easy peasy. It's just plain ol' ignorance.
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Oh, pshaw.
You see a lot of "straight guy seeks other straight guy for sex" ads on those websites too. Sure, the ads exist, but that doesn't mean cock-thirsty straight men are real.
"cock-thirsty straight men"?
:D :D :D
Isn't that an oxymoron?
And I think I know which Craig's list ads you're talking about. They're the ones that say something like "straight male seeking straight male to play video games & j.o. together. We just play PSP & then watch each other j.o. I also want you to cum in my mouth, but none of that gay stuff, ok?". ;D
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"cock-thirsty straight men"?
:D :D :D
Isn't that an oxymoron?
And I think I know which Craig's list ads you're talking about. They're the ones that say something like "straight male seeking straight male to play video games & j.o. together. We just play PSP & then watch each other j.o. I also want you to cum in my mouth, but none of that gay stuff, ok?". ;D
Hmmm...getting close (again) to that same dysfunction that swirls up around here now and then--that there are no 'real' straight men with HIV. Sure--what is submitted above is true for some, but please lets not go all broad-brush with these things again.
When it comes to people who seek out HIV positive people in order to become HIV positive themselves, I've always thought that it was some strange exploration of a fetish and have felt fetishized when I've been approached with this. I can only imagine that is possibly an effect of those ultimate risk takers who see through the lens of challenge. Nothing more life-affirming then going through a 'certain death' scenario and making it out alive. Perhaps its not that some wish to become infected, maybe its their desire to experience the ultimate 'no-no' when it comes to unprotected sex.
Really I have no idea and the concept disturbs me. The last person to appraoch me with this articulated it as I described above. She wanted to use her sensuality and sexuality in a way that had some ultimate challenge connected to it--like she had pushed through some forbidden boundary..blah blah blah.
I referred her to counseling.
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Anyway, my guess is that because HIV is probably still considered a terminal illness (it is isn't it?), maybe it's easier for people (in this area anyway) to draw disability for it. When you have lawyers around every corner who are willing to "FIGHT TO GET YOU THE MONEY YOU DESERVE!" & doctors who have no problem writing out statements for anything & everything you ask for, it's no suprise that people would probably think drawing disability for something like HIV would be easy peasy. It's just plain ol' ignorance.
I don't think HIV is considered a terminal illness in Switzerland. The states used to give out disability when people got too sick to work. In the 80's and 90's. Now with HAART its hard to get a medical excuse for day off even! The only people who still have disability are LTS who really are disabled.
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When I was infected it was with my bf at the time I was in love and very young. I didn't think that he was positive, we used condoms but after a while we stopped so I did not seek to become infected. The problem is a lot of people don't know their status, and others fantasize of becoming positive. I don't understand bugchasers I guess it turns them on to have a chronic disease for life, there are more medicines availiable but no cure yet at this time.
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Hmmm...getting close (again) to that same dysfunction that swirls up around here now and then--that there are no 'real' straight men with HIV. Sure--what is submitted above is true for some, but please lets not go all broad-brush with these things again.
Well, I definetly don't believe that there are no "real" straight men with HIV. My own straight boyfriend of 6 years, who's never participated in IV drug use or had any kind of homosexual encounter, is HIV positive. I just find it humorous when someone says something like "I want to watch you j.o." & then turns around & proclaim they are straight. But no, I most certainly don't think that HIV is some sort of "gay disease". Men can & do contract HIV from unprotected vaginal intercourse with women, regardless of what some people want to believe. And I went over to Something Awful & checked out the Weekend Web feature they had about bug chasers, & the site they linked to was Bareback Exchange. I found an interesting post on there by "Bugchase420" that I actually found to be pretty insightful:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bareback-exchange.php?page=8 (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bareback-exchange.php?page=8)
And while I certainly don't condone that type of behavior or thinking, it really sort of put things into prespective & kind of makes sense, in a very morbid, fucked up way.
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The only people who still have disability are LTS who really are disabled.
Well, then the only other conclusion I can come up with as to why these two kids were so excited about getting disability is because they are idiots who apparently live in a world that time forgot. Which is nothing new around here. It took this town years to even allow a vote to pass that allowed alcohol to be served "by the drink" in local resturaunts. And there are still people trying to appeal that.
Hell, we even have to deal with that kind of backwards thinking in our own family. My boyfriend had a bad wreck during the summer that completely totaled his car, & it was all because he was driving too fast & not paying attention to the road. We found out later that his extremely religious zealot sister who belongs to some sort of borderline snake handling church/cult told her 9 year old son that the reason my boyfriend had that car accident was because he was not living the kind of life God wanted him to live. Naturally, he has not disclosed his status to her. If she thinks something as simple as not going to church can bring on a car accident, then who the hell knows what she'd say about HIV? Probably that God infected him with it because he was secretly a homosexual & also because we were living together & not married. I'm sure while she was at it she would probably end up accusing him of raping puppies & molesting children too. It's a wonderful world that we live in here. ::)
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Hmmm...getting close (again) to that same dysfunction that swirls up around here now and then--that there are no 'real' straight men with HIV. Sure--what is submitted above is true for some, but please lets not go all broad-brush with these things again.
and you should stop letting it bother you. People have directed the same thing at me Marco and hey it makes me laugh like hell. Never ever once on this forum have I trounced into a thread proclaiming to be straight. Nope... and everyone here is well aware how I was infected because I told them my very first ever AM post. May catch some flack for this, but I am of the thinking that if you did it just once don't brag about being straight cuz your not.
With that said I like pussy. I tried dick once and I failed at it and got my ass beat in some strangers bedroom. I can laugh about it now... two dicks swinging in the dark until he connected that beautiful upper cut!!! LMAO Now of course this is the first time I've shared this with the forum as a whole, but Bucko got a laugh out of it when I told him 4 years ago and so did my beautiful wife three years ago.
Marco, when it boils down to it your sexuality only matters to one person and that is yourself. At the same time what they are referring to in this thread is not just made up for conversation's sake. It's real my man and those that take offense of it easily are equally viewed easily with suspicion... brother, it is what it is. ;)
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in the 5 years I was poz I met one psycho who was hell bent on getting the gift. I chalked it up to meth induced psychosis because in between wanted to get bred he shot up. I couldn't get out of the house quick enough.
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You see a lot of "straight guy seeks other straight guy for sex" ads on those websites too. Sure, the ads exist, but that doesn't mean cock-thirsty straight men are real.
Hmmm...getting close (again) to that same dysfunction that swirls up around here now and then--that there are no 'real' straight men with HIV. Sure--what is submitted above is true for some, but please lets not go all broad-brush with these things again.
Maybe you guys should really read the whole quote, in particularly the highlighted part. Of course people get infected through "straight" sex.. and not once from all the posts here I find remotely doubting all any fellow heterosexuals' orientation.
I will however echo what Ms. P has pointed out about the original post - I also wonder which support/information forums/chatrooms for us HIV folks would one be "cruised" for sex, not to mention one that is populated with "bugchasers" looking for "straight" men to infect them... yeah, maybe in bugshare or even manhunt or gaydar, but a forum like here and, say, the Body?
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was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses. I know most don't share my opinion, but don't really care what you think.
This is crappy pyschobabble and why would you post your opinion and say you don't care what we think. So why should we care what you think? Why even participate in this forum.
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Statistics? Never seen anyone contract HIV from statistics but I have from unprotected anal and vaginal sex.
Voyeur ;)
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Voyeur ;)
LOL Rodney said he watched people get infected.... both anally and vaginally, that is like so cool. I want a job like this one day.
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Just to clarify it for you Tom, I should have said seen the results of. :)
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Just to clarify it for you Tom, I should have said seen the results of. :)
I know Rodney, we both mean the same exact thing... you are just using different verbage. :D
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It actually turns me off when people beg me to have unprotected sex with them.
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It actually turns me off when people beg me to have unprotected sex with them.
Not me I love when she begs for it......
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Miss P,
Did you roll those eyes then or wait till later?
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and you should stop letting it bother you. People have directed the same thing at me Marco and hey it makes me laugh like hell. Never ever once on this forum have I trounced into a thread proclaiming to be straight. Nope... and everyone here is well aware how I was infected because I told them my very first ever AM post. May catch some flack for this, but I am of the thinking that if you did it just once don't brag about being straight cuz your not.
With that said I like pussy. I tried dick once and I failed at it and got my ass beat in some strangers bedroom. I can laugh about it now... two dicks swinging in the dark until he connected that beautiful upper cut!!! LMAO Now of course this is the first time I've shared this with the forum as a whole, but Bucko got a laugh out of it when I told him 4 years ago and so did my beautiful wife three years ago.
Marco, when it boils down to it your sexuality only matters to one person and that is yourself. At the same time what they are referring to in this thread is not just made up for conversation's sake. It's real my man and those that take offense of it easily are equally viewed easily with suspicion... brother, it is what it is. ;)
It doesn't 'bother'me. I've just decided that each time I see it to call it out. This is the same reaction I have when I hear people make racist comments, sexist comments and homophobic comments. Each time I hear or see these I call attention to them.
I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?
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and you should stop letting it bother you. People have directed the same thing at me Marco and hey it makes me laugh like hell. Never ever once on this forum have I trounced into a thread proclaiming to be straight. Nope... and everyone here is well aware how I was infected because I told them my very first ever AM post. May catch some flack for this, but I am of the thinking that if you did it just once don't brag about being straight cuz your not.
With that said I like pussy. I tried dick once and I failed at it and got my ass beat in some strangers bedroom. I can laugh about it now... two dicks swinging in the dark until he connected that beautiful upper cut!!! LMAO Now of course this is the first time I've shared this with the forum as a whole, but Bucko got a laugh out of it when I told him 4 years ago and so did my beautiful wife three years ago.
Marco, when it boils down to it your sexuality only matters to one person and that is yourself. At the same time what they are referring to in this thread is not just made up for conversation's sake. It's real my man and those that take offense of it easily are equally viewed easily with suspicion... brother, it is what it is. ;)
ROFL, maybe you should have picked someone not so butch Tom. :D Tom you should see two dicks with glo in the dark condoms on. Now that is funny. ;)
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I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?
Hmm... I guess kinda, but you know Marco this is about the only.... and I do mean only situation where a straight male can cry foul. As for those homophobic jokes, that goes on whether HIV exist or not. It's just not the same thing....
ROFL, maybe you should have picked someone not so butch Tom. :D Tom you should see two dicks with glo in the dark condoms on. Now that is funny. ;)
This may be true, and I will tell you this I have respect for women who can endure the pain of labor and you guys that can endure anal. Because of my experience I would never beg my wife to overcome her fear of it.. Funny thing was about 3-4 weeks later, I was in the ER (undiagnosed seroconversion) and the doctor wanted to check something by way of my ass... she stuck her finger in my ass and HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS.. and I told her, "That was the second most painful experience I've had in a month".
Looking back on it I was checked for every form of cancer known to man... I was told I had diseases that are named after rare frogs in the Amazon even, however I was never given a HIV test. Probably could have saved my insurance company a bundle by way of a simple Elisa.
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bug chasers do exists I'm being pursued by two guys online who say they are sero-. I can't know if that is true or not, I do know the guys are real. Also they do know I am undetectable. So is that a ball less bug-chaser, finally? Pretends to risk when there is little?
Anyhow, I think its ridiculous and sad fetishization of a notorious virus and bankrupt identity.
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Anyhow, I think its ridiculous and sad fetishization of a notorious virus and bankrupt identity.
This coming from a middle school teacher? Shiznit, I'm impressed!!!
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Statistics may not be your forte. But it's the truth.
Sure, some people get HIV after one sexual exposure -- but the odds of that are actually quite small. To get your odds above 50% you need to keep reinvesting your time in sex. Jeez, think of all that time wasted getting pounded when one could have been exploring one's true interests -- like vacuuming or decoupage or (shudder) model trains... Whereas one carefully chosen blood transfusion and it's almost guaranteed! ;)
Sarcasm aside, my point was that people may accept the risk of acquiring HIV as part of sex, but they are in it for the sex rather than the bug.
And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.
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Hey skeebo Im a univ prof ???
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That's ridiculous. The only person I've every had unprotected sex with was my xbf. I just wanted to make that very clear. I wasn't chasing HIV subconsciously. That's kind of offensive to even suggest that I was. He tried to say he didn't give it to me right after he told me that he had it also when he was trying to get me to be with him. His weird and awkward comments about we have to stay together forever now make sense. I always wondered why he would always stress that or say it in a weird way. Now I know. Sigh! :-\ :'(
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Hey skeebo Im a univ prof ???
Stop hijacking the thread with career talk... btw, I thought you said you were a ski instructor.
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IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses.
Your original comment was not limited to just "bug chasers"
the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex.
that's a rather limited world-view you have there. Don't forget, queers are just people too. ;)
Returning to your original protagonist of "anyone having unprotected sex", what we're discussing is just sex then, a biological drive. do you think all those little 16 yr old girls out there getting boffed by their boyfriends are trying to chase the bug and pick up HIV? hell, they aren't even thinking about getting the clap or crabs, much less getting HIV. More importantly they're not even thinking about getting pregnant. :o Scary thought though isn't that? That every pregnancy could have just as easily been an HIV infection.
Average people (whether straight, gay or all ranges in-between) having unprotected sex aren't looking to get infected or impregnated; they're just looking to get their rocks off. Bug-chasers are a psychological abnormality.
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It doesn't 'bother'me. I've just decided that each time I see it to call it out. This is the same reaction I have when I hear people make racist comments, sexist comments and homophobic comments. Each time I hear or see these I call attention to them.
I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?
Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying the joke I made about the Craig's list ads was homophobic? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way. I guess a lot my gay friends (mostly my lesbian friends, I haven't really talked to much to my guy gay friends about it) are from the school of thought that a person is either gay or straight - there's no in between, none of that "bi-sexual" stuff. So that's kind of what I've always thought, too. Now, over the years I've started to think that maybe women's sexuality is a little more fluid than that, but for some reason I have always thought of men as being one way or the other, but I'm willing to be open-minded on that subject. Especially when I read about the sexual exploits of that bitter once hot old queen Rupert Everett. He seems to have no problem satisfying either sex. Also it gives me hope that I may still have a chance with him, even if he has literally turned his once beautiful face inside out. I would still hit that. With a condom of course. My boyfriend doesn't have to know. ;) But seriously, no one knows more about their own sexuality than themselves, so there's really no need to get all worked up if someone questions it. But I do apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings by any statements that I've made. I'm really starting to love this board & the people on it, & I check it every day regardless of whether I'm posting or not, so I don't want anyone to be upset by anything I've said.
And on the subject of people who have unprotected sex subconsciously trying to contract HIV, well, that's just pure bullshit. Unless someone is knowingly & deliberately trying to contract the virus, the main reason people have unprotected sex is simply because of plain old carelessness & apathy. They're of the mindset that "it won't happen to me". It's really no more different than someone driving too fast & not paying attention to the road or not using sunscreen. They sure as hell weren't trying to crash their cars or get skin cancer, but they do anyway just by simply being careless. But that's just my opinion.
And from now on I will do my best not to offend anyone or make jokes about Craig's List ads.
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Trust, you don't want Everett -- he doesn't douche his rear.
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And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.
So you are saying that throughout history (OK - at least the history since the germ theory was established), that everyone who has ever gotten an STD was really in it for the disease -- not the sex??
That seems a bit absurd to me. Sometimes people are simply careless, lazy, "in love"or most likely -- not thinking about diseases at all, but rather about the dick or pussy that is in front of them. People like sex not too many that I know like diseases. ::)
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Trust, you don't want Everett -- he doesn't douche his rear.
Thanks for the tip.
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And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.
Your comment implicitly assumes that the risks were equally known to everyone prior to infection and that the future course of treatment was known as well. In fact it sorta reeks of assumptions that everyone else approached this just the same way you did.
You know, from your postings on these forums you seem like a genuinely nice fellow who tries to live by his sig motto (Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic). So one hesitates to say something that you might perceive as rude. But ... seriously ... have you considered that perhaps your view says more about your own unresolved concerns about how you personally were infected than it does about everyone else?
Personally I've done my share of taking myself to task for getting infected -- for not knowing enough about HIV, for being careless, for being overly optimistic about whether it would be cured and (getting really close to the core here) being unwilling to negotiate the topic of safer sex if I thought it might lead to rejection. But subconcious desires for an uncertain potential disease? Nope. No matter how much I probe my motivations it just isn't there.
And it sounds like you get this reaction from a lot of people -- so ... maybe ... you might want to explore it in more depth as to what it means personally.
Sincerely
A
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Your comment implicitly assumes that the risks were equally known to everyone prior to infection and that the future course of treatment was known as well. In fact it sorta reeks of assumptions that everyone else approached this just the same way you did.
You know, from your postings on these forums you seem like a genuinely nice fellow who tries to live by his sig motto (Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic). So one hesitates to say something that you might perceive as rude. But ... seriously ... have you considered that perhaps your view says more about your own unresolved concerns about how you personally were infected than it does about everyone else?
Personally I've done my share of taking myself to task for getting infected -- for not knowing enough about HIV, for being careless, for being overly optimistic about whether it would be cured and (getting really close to the core here) being unwilling to negotiate the topic of safer sex if I thought it might lead to rejection. But subconcious desires for an uncertain potential disease? Nope. No matter how much I probe my motivations it just isn't there.
And it sounds like you get this reaction from a lot of people -- so ... maybe ... you might want to explore it in more depth as to what it means personally.
Sincerely
A
Ass,
You could have just simply stated that you did not like condoms, but then again that would not have had the desired effect. Not to be provoked by his sig line but I would like to come to Steve's defense here, and Steve you can go against your nice sig line image and be as brutal as your Aussie blood allows if I am wrong.
Point is we all knew HIV existed... we knew the risks and whether we thought "it wouldn't happen to me"or not , it did. Who are we to judge if a person is a bug chaser or not? Hell most of us wouldn't even get routinely tested but by golly we sure do push the issue now don't we?
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See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.
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See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.
Great to see you have such deep insight into how the 32 million adults living today with HIV/AIDS got that way.
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Point is we all knew HIV existed...Hell most of us wouldn't even get routinely tested
just like fearless assumed that people have sex to get infected ::) (though I still think most people have sex for fun or to get pregnant), now you're making some bad assumptions. :)
When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ;)) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.
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just like fearless assumed that people have sex to get infected ::) (though I still think most people have sex for fun or to get pregnant), now you're making some bad assumptions. :)
When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ;)) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.
i noted that in my original post when i said, us that have been infected since we knew that sex was the main route of tranmsission. as you noted, you couldn't be a bug chaser before then.
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I GOT MY AIDS FROM A TOILET SEAT AT ARBY'S
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When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ;)) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.
Pleatherman,
Do you really think I am referring to people before we even knew what it was, or are you just trying to stir the pot? I mean seriously......
I GOT MY AIDS FROM A TOILET SEAT AT ARBY'S
And you're a liar... that was one nasty ass glory hole. I just hope you kept the receipt. You do know if you call that 1-800 number on the back, you can get a free roastbeef cheesemelt with an extra package of Horsey Sauce! ;)
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i noted that in my original post when i said, us that have been infected since we knew that sex was the main route of tranmsission. as you noted, you couldn't be a bug chaser before then.
IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses.
thank you for that clarification. ;) ;D
I think I was reading it as if there was a comma after the words "unprotected sex"
which led me to interpret your phrase "since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission" modifiying/explaining "unprotected sex"; instead of say IV transmission being the major mode
I did not read it as "unprotected sex" from the time "since we have known that (ie unprotected sex) to be the major mode of transmission"
Do you really think I am referring to people before we even knew what it was, or are you just trying to stir the pot? I mean seriously......
between some of the funny comments, sarcastic comments and one liners, I'm just not certain anymore. ??? obviously I have just misunderstood that y'all are using words like "anyone" to mean only gays (cause you'll never get me to believe all those straights having unprotected sex and knowing that is a major mode of HIV transmission are doing it to chase the bug) and "everyone" to mean certain people after some point in time. ::)
I'm just going to blame it on this headache that I've had for a week (probably a freaking tumor :D ::)) and just back out of the thread. y'all go ahead and chat away. ;)
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Aww man, make me feel all bad and shit. Sorry leatherman.....
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Aww man, make me feel all bad and shit. Sorry leatherman....
:-* sorry dude. u know I <3 U in a plationic, non-bug chasing way :D
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See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.
We all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex with someone who isn't HIV positive and someone who is HIV positive. Your post assumes we already knew the person had HIV and decided not to wear a condom anyway.
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What is the point of this thread? To say we were all bug chasers? And that some of us are now probably gift givers?
Or, to discuss if bug chasers exist? I hope its the latter.
You know, its clear there is a group of people who very specifically want to get infected with HIV, and they are called "bug chasers", and I think it is RIDICULOUS to say that millions and milions of HIV+ people are in the same category.
If "you" (anyone) thinks they got HIV from a urge - known or unknown - to get HIV - fine and dandy, live with it, and no one is gonna judge you! Just don't assume everyone HIV+ had the same experience.
I have had miscellaneous STD'S over 20 years before I got HIV and i never had the URGE to get those STDs.
I have once or twice way overspent on my credit card without the URGE to be broke.
I have committed so many spontaneous acts of stupidity and cruelty, kindness and generosity and brilliance, without always having some urge to have to deal with the consequences of such actions.
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IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses. I know most don't share my opinion, but don't really care what you think.
You don't want my opinion so I won't share it with you. I am curious however if in your world there is any way for a person to have children without it being a death wish or involving a test tube.
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What is the point of this thread? To say we were all bug chasers? And that some of us are now probably gift givers?
Or, to discuss if bug chasers exist? I hope its the latter.
You know, its clear there is a group of people who very specifically want to get infected with HIV, and they are called "bug chasers", and I think it is RIDICULOUS to say that millions and milions of HIV+ people are in the same category.
If "you" (anyone) thinks they got HIV from a urge - known or unknown - to get HIV - fine and dandy, live with it, and no one is gonna judge you! Just don't assume everyone HIV+ had the same experience.
I have had miscellaneous STD'S over 20 years before I got HIV and i never had the URGE to get those STDs.
I have once or twice way overspent on my credit card without the URGE to be broke.
I have committed so many spontaneous acts of stupidity and cruelty, kindness and generosity and brilliance, without always having some urge to have to deal with the consequences of such actions.
I agree -- it is unclear to me why the acquisition of HIV is fetishized, while other STD's or other examples of taking risks that did not work out (speeding, crossing the street without looking) etc are not thought to necessarily exemplify a death wish.
Fearless, I apologize if you thought I was suggesting you were yourself a bug chaser -- I was instead suggesting that this exalting of HIV risk taking to a different level than other risk taking was perhaps an idea worth exploring -- I'm sorry if it was rude.
Skeebo, on the other hand -- that's Mr. Urban to you ... Pal ;) :D
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Skeebo, on the other hand -- that's Mr. Urban to you ... Pal ;) :D
Duly noted, but be advised I might forget....
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I GOT MY AIDS FROM A TOILET SEAT AT ARBY'S
:D :D
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I GOT MY AIDS FROM A TOILET SEAT AT ARBY'S
Let me guess... you sat down before he stood up?
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Let me guess... you sat down before he stood up?
No, but I do always sit down to pee.
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Let me guess... you sat down before he stood up?
Is this some form of code talk?
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Yes, it means he was wearing a navy-blue hanky in his right pocket. ;D
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You don't want my opinion so I won't share it with you. I am curious however if in your world there is any way for a person to have children without it being a death wish or involving a test tube.
Hye Sorry Ford, that was a poor use of English on my behalf. I actually meant that I don't really care what people thought about my opinion, not that i didn't care for others opinions on the matter. Sorry it came across that way. Re-reading my post, it sounds somewhat offensive and dismissive of others opinions, I didn't mean that.
Assurbanipal, I've been meaning to get back to you. No offense taken at all. I have no illusions as to how I ended up with this bug. In fact, it is my matter of fact and pragmatic views on this that seem to get under peoples collars.
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In fact, it is my matter of fact and pragmatic views on this that seem to get under peoples collars.
I thought it was because you're so short.
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I thought it was because you're so short.
That's "hot" not "short"
Assurbanipal (whose Prezista research turned up some great threads)