POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: PositivelyMotivated on May 07, 2012, 02:07:30 am
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can someone clear this up for me ... ive heard this can happen but im wondering if they were refering to the possibilities of pairing hiv 1 and 2 or if you can really have more than one hiv 1 subtype at the same time ... particualrly those in the M group A B C ... would i seroconvert all over again etc and how much worse could i have made my situation by exposing myself to another subtype ?
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I've gotten conflicting information on this topic and have always wondered about it myself. Some things don't make sense to me.
I have had a Dr tell me you can get more than one strain, but another Dr tell me that if you were somehow "reinfected" that it would just convert back to a wild strain and it's isn't like you would seroconvert again. I've not known anyone who has had Two strains or had a problem with that, and I've known lots of positive people, so it would be helpful if anyone on here is going through that and could shed light on it.
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If you put "superinfection" or "reinfection" into the site's search engine (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?action=search;advanced), you'll find plenty of threads discussing this issue.
From what I've read on the subject, if it happens at all, it's rare and mainly confined to people who are very newly infected in the first place. In my opinion, I think it's used as a "monster-under-the-bed" by health care workers who don't like the idea of poz people barebacking, even with other poz people, and want to discourage the practice.
My poz partner and I never use condoms and reinfection is the furthest thing from my mind.
By the way, the "super" in superinfection doesn't mean super as in super-duper or Super Man, it means super as in superimposed - one infection on top of the other.
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Is it normal for two positives to be on different meds, even though my partner infected me?
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Is it normal for two positives to be on different meds, even though my partner infected me?
You asked about this in another thread, but without knowing more details about each of you, nobody could possibly speculate with any accuracy. I believe the two of you have the same doctor, yes? If so, ask next time you're in.
If your doctor is anything like mine, he or she won't tell you much about your partner unless he's in the room with you, or he has given the doctor his express permission to discuss details about his health and treatment with you.
My partner and I go to the same doctor, but he's been on meds for over ten years and I haven't even started yet. Like you, I also acquired my infection from him - but there's no way I'll ever go on one of the meds he's on. It's a personal preference, so you see there can be a wide variety of reasons behind the difference.
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i can understand what he's talking about more than 1 strain hiv 1 and hiv 2 but in the u.s hiv 1 is common but like another person having another strain is like mutations where hiv can become resistant to part of a drug in atripla which im on now but my friend was on it as well but changed to what his dr called a cocktail dose where he became resistant to certain parts of the drug, in atripla theres 3 in 1 where hes resistant to 1 of the 3 its like what ann was talking about super strains where a person is resistant to multiple parts of hiv drugs hope it makes sense but its complicated on my end my friend has to take 5 pills day 2 of the same twice and the other 3 once a day
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i can understand what he's talking about more than 1 strain hiv 1 and hiv 2 but in the u.s hiv 1 is common but like another person having another strain is like mutations where hiv can become resistant to part of a drug in atripla which im on now but my friend was on it as well but changed to what his dr called a cocktail dose where he became resistant to certain parts of the drug, in atripla theres 3 in 1 where hes resistant to 1 of the 3 its like what ann was talking about super strains where a person is resistant to multiple parts of hiv drugs hope it makes sense but its complicated on my end my friend has to take 5 pills day 2 of the same twice and the other 3 once a day
Becoming re-infected is about as common as finding a unicorn.
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Becoming re-infected is about as common as finding a unicorn.
Or, now, with new data, perhaps not;
Risk of HIV reinfection may be similar to risk of initial HIV infection
http://i-base.info/htb/16330
The key question is, does it matter clinically? And the answer is, except rarely, prob not. The number of people in the world without a decent treatment option with confirmed reinfections is, like, a handful in 40 million+ cases.
The more different your virus from someone else's the higher the risk of reinfection. If it's the same, don't fret. If it's very different fret. It's a world of difference going without condoms with a select few/your partner/person you got HIV from, to putting your bits round the world.
In short, if everyone tends to have the same HIV (like London) don't fret it ... too much, if they have lots of different types (like Cuba) choose wisely/use condoms til you have more information about the person.
I realise people may point out I have changed my view on this, but science evolves and I pay attention. It may have evolved on the reinfection question. It's quite hard to say conclusively. But these days I am a little more cautious on this topic than in previous years (but still think, broadly, don't sweat it too much).
- matt
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In short, if everyone tends to have the same HIV (like London) don't fret it ... too much, if they have lots of different types (like Cuba) choose wisely/use condoms til you have more information about the person.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here -- London is full of people from every country in the world, practically, to some degree.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here -- London is full of people from every country in the world, practically, to some degree.
In London the HIV is less varied than the people, tends to be overwhelmingly HIV-1 subtype B in gay men/white heterosexuals, somewhat different in Africans. Cuba has 21 commonly circulating HIV strains. Depends who you are shagging I guess.
- matt
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Depends who you are shagging I guess.
... but not who they shagged before you shagged them (?) Or is that not a concern with this new information?
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... but not who they shagged before you shagged them (?) Or is that not a concern with this new information?
That's the rub. How, exactly, does one even study this?
You'd think the science-foxnews/happy US would be ALL OVER this, since we have such a varied population and whatnot.
I know for a fact that I wasn't even given a test to determine my genotype until about a decade into my infection. Moreover, while I indeed carry the sadly normative HIV-1/B virus, I have surely and, I daresay, aggressively, been exposed to variants all over the board. A veritable Benneton of diversity.
Granted, I know that this is anecdote, and should be dismissed as such. But the article you quote even seems to reinforce that fact - it actually emphasizes the difficulty in determining any real statistical data from the studies highlighted.
I'm still standing behind my "unicorn" statement.
*modified to correct hungover typing.
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I have surely and, I daresay, aggressively, been exposed to variants all over the board. A veritable Benneton of diversity.
Child please -- I've practically had the entire United Nations up my sphincter. And that was just in NYC. Add in the fact I used to vacation in the Caribbean annually and fuck a different guy each day, or more, I guess I should volunteer for a study.
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The more different your virus from someone else's the higher the risk of reinfection. If it's the same, don't fret. If it's very different fret. It's a world of difference going without condoms with a select few/your partner/person you got HIV from, to putting your bits round the world.
In short, if everyone tends to have the same HIV (like London) don't fret it ... too much, if they have lots of different types (like Cuba) choose wisely/use condoms til you have more information about the person.
Does the term 'different' virus connote difference only in HIV subtypes?
What about differences in HIV brought about due med resistance ? Or perhaps, general mutuation of the virus in one's body during its life cycle? I mean I keep reading about HIV being a 'very clever' bug, how it keeps adapting itself, undergoing several mutations everyday- or those differences don't matter?
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i don't understand why the guy said as refering to my comment as reinfection as like finding a unicorn which they don't excist but as to jkinatl2's comment i stand correct reinfection as to being with someone that has a resistant to certain parts of the drugs found in hiv meds like in jkinatl2's comment super infection is what i was mentioning multiple drug resistants 4 example a person getting infected with hiv as the start doesn't take care of himself or her goes out having multiple sex partners without protection can result in super infection having multiple resistant to certain parts can lead to having to take cocktail doses with multiple pills at a time including more than once to twice a day
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i don't understand why the guy said as refering to my comment as reinfection as like finding a unicorn which they don't excist but as to jkinatl2's comment i stand correct reinfection as to being with someone that has a resistant to certain parts of the drugs found in hiv meds like in jkinatl2's comment super infection is what i was mentioning multiple drug resistants 4 example a person getting infected with hiv as the start doesn't take care of himself or her goes out having multiple sex partners without protection can result in super infection having multiple resistant to certain parts can lead to having to take cocktail doses with multiple pills at a time including more than once to twice a day
I am having difficulty understanding this paragraph.
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what i was saying is when they mention strains as to resistants of drugs found in hiv medication, when they mention strains hiv without a resistant or a super strain with multiple resistant like some1 that was using atripla which has 3 drugs in 1 say someone that was using atripla and gotten a resistant to sustiva or another
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There are three questions really. Does reinfection with HIV (or perhaps simultaneous infection with 2+ types of HIV) happen? Does it matter (ie affect your health?). Do you care?
My answers in my mind are: 1. Yes it happens, it's uncommon, just like gettting HIV is uncommon, the factors which permit it are unclear, but unlike a unicorn, reinfection exists to some degree << I am being techical here about the uncommon bit 2. To date, very rarely does it seem to matter, it only matters in those exceptional cases where, eg, you get HIV 2 aswell as HIV 1 or get a resistant strain, and this affects your treatment options and outcomes, these cases get highlighted in journals cos they are a) rare and b) interesting. 3. If you have a main HIV positive partner perhaps the option of no rubbers is deffo on the cards, this is my choice, other people will decide differently.
- matt
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what i was saying is when they mention strains as to resistants of drugs found in hiv medication, when they mention strains hiv without a resistant or a super strain with multiple resistant like some1 that was using atripla which has 3 drugs in 1 say someone that was using atripla and gotten a resistant to sustiva or another
With all due respect, please learn to punctuate. I cannot follow your run-on sentences and I refuse to mentally translate your paragraph.
I just ignore it and skip on to the next post.
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With all due respect, please learn to punctuate. I cannot follow your run-on sentences and I refuse to mentally translate your paragraph.
I just ignore it and skip on to the next post.
It seems like English is not this person's first language. You may want to keep in consideration that for a small minority here they're trying to communicate to you in a second language.
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just out of curiosity why's there drama here? i seen a few here that bash others 4 what reason ? to put their opinion in the spotlight? that's the issue here too many people with completely different opinions almost as bad as being around gay people
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just out of curiosity why's there drama here? i seen a few here that bash others 4 what reason ? to put their opinion in the spotlight? that's the issue here too many people with completely different opinions almost as bad as being around gay people
Now who's bashing who? Since when is being around gay people a bad thing? That comment sounds rather homophobic to me. I'm not sure if you're gay or straight, but if you're straight, you're on thin ice with that comment. We don't allow homophobic comments in these forums, so watch it, mister.
Ann
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Now who's bashing who? Since when is being around gay people a bad thing? That comment sounds rather homophobic to me. I'm not sure if you're gay or straight, but if you're straight, you're on thin ice with that comment. We don't allow homophobic comments in these forums, so watch it, mister.
Ann
Even if he's gay that's not really particularly nice. I feel a little bit of shame for defending him now.
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I don't at all want to highjack this thread, I just wanted to say a few words to SSHORTGUY1, regarding his comments to this topic.
Hi SSHORTGUY1
How are you doing? :) I just wanted to mention to you that we all have a lot of differing opinions on a lot of issues here, so I don't want you to feel like you are being attacked. You will find that most, if not all, of the people here are very friendly. I believe the reason there are a lot of opinions in this forum is so that we can compare our different points of view and put everything together so we can come up with solutions for people in certain situations, health problems, etc. I just rejoined this forum, as I was last a member around 4 years or so, ago, but then I moved to the west coast. I can definitely tell you that Ann, one of the moderators, is a very nice woman, especially if you get to know her, as she has given me some good advice when I was here before. Ann was just warning you to be careful about what things you say because she is probably giving you the benefit of the doubt, as you might have been having a bad day, etc. Just remember a lot of us are here to help you out and not attack you. I certainly would not attack you ever. I know we all say things we don't mean when we are upset. I'm even guilty of doing that a few times....LOL......Anyhow, please take care, be well, and find one of us you feel you can be comfortable talking to.......Smile and forget about all this now, we're here for you........Always, Marcelino
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ty Marcelino for your comment , i just felt like i was being attacked,
the reason i mentioned about strains was b/c i asked the dr that my friend and i have,
my friend has what the dr called the super strain that he told the dr my friend gotten the false security that atripla would take care of it but not in his case , but hes on 5 medications a day some twice a day. but as for myself i'm on atripla by itself. so i'm glad that i don't have to go through what my friend has to do i was talking to another friend that had hiv since 1997 he had to go through it himself but eventually back on atripla
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Hi Sshortguy,
You will most likely do very well on your medicine. As you can see, there is a lot of debate to the definitive answers of this situation, but one thing doctors are learning is that through all of this, medication adherence is a big factor. I was reading some research the other day about this issue and I came across an article in the Journal of AIDS, that indicates people who take their medications as directed, have a lower risk of becoming superinfected, that is, if the possibility of superinfection exists. As I understood it, the reason being, was because a person has improved immunity since their viral load is undetectable, also because of pre-existing HIV antibodies already in the blood, and also the risk of passing on a so-called superstrain is markedly reduced, since an undetectable viral load also lessens the risk of infecting someone to begin with, whether they are HIV positive or not. Anyone here, please correct me if I am wrong. Take care and I wish you the best of health.......Marcelino ;D
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since an undetectable viral load also lessens the risk of infecting someone to begin with, whether they are HIV positive or not. Anyone here, please correct me if I am wrong.
being on successful HAART is just like PEP and PrEP - combine that with being UD and that's some powerful protection. To have another infection issue with HIV sounds pretty far-fetched. ;D
So far the people who have been diagnosed with either "reinfection" or "super infection" where people who were not on successful treatment ie they either had not started medications or they had bad adherence and become detectable again.
we've talked about this subject here a lot. Do a site search on "reinfection" or "superinfection" to find more info, along with links to the studies of the 12 or so detectable and/or untreated people who became reinfected.
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In Africa, there are people with HIV1/HIV2 co-infection. :-\
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There is a case report in a reputable journal of HIV being transmitted even though the transmitter was on HAART. Given there are at least 5 case reports of household acquisition of HIV (ie non-sexual, non-shared injecting equipment) people may (fairly) ascribe relatively little weight this phenomenon. I guess it depends how concerned you are about thie risk.
We have indeed talked about this a lot on the forum, but perhaps them old discussions are now out of date.
It seems clear to me today (but wasn't when I posted about this topic in the past) that getting HIV a second time (or third) is more common than previously thought, methodological issues about latest resarch notwithstanding.
It does not seem clear to me that this phenomenon is clincially important, or that it means you should deffo keep the condoms on if shagging another HIV+ person who is not a random hook up.
Old discussions do not reflect the latest research or people's views on the latest research,
- matt
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There is a case report in a reputable journal of HIV being transmitted even though the transmitter was on HAART. Given there are at least 5 case reports of household acquisition of HIV (ie non-sexual, non-shared injecting equipment) people may (fairly) ascribe relatively little weight this phenomenon. I guess it depends how concerned you are about thie risk.
We have indeed talked about this a lot on the forum, but perhaps them old discussions are now out of date.
It seems clear to me today (but wasn't when I posted about this topic in the past) that getting HIV a second time (or third) is more common than previously thought, methodological issues about latest resarch notwithstanding.
It does not seem clear to me that this phenomenon is clincially important, or that it means you should deffo keep the condoms on if shagging another HIV+ person who is not a random hook up.
Old discussions do not reflect the latest research or people's views on the latest research,
- matt
Perhaps. But I am still awaiting the conclusive evidence that this phenomenon is widespread enough to warrant concern. Has it been clinically identified in a dozen cases? A hundred? A thousand? Using what methodology? Inasmuch as HIV transmission theory has significantly changed in the last fifteen years (since the advent of ART) I would be remiss to think that the capacity to determine reinfection has also progressed beyond the rudimentary level.
You might not realize that you tend to parse these topics in a way that seems alarming to those who do not have your prowess of understanding or interpreting scientific data, including the notion of outliers.
To wit, your casual statement about environmental transmissions (which by the way seem to have evaporated in the last fifteen years or so - why is that?) will no doubt help cause a potential shit storm in AM I INFECTED. People over there - and I suspect in the general population - still jump all over the term "safer sex" as opposed to "safe sex."
I choose to think it is not your intention to cause undue distress and confusion. But sometimes you do.
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That was way harsh, Ty.
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I've met many guys who have bb sex all the time, in orgies and stuff, UD or not, and they say they haven't had any trouble because of that. When some of them start treatment, they go UD anyway. I mean, many poz guys are really loose and nothing seems to happen to them. If reinfection was that serious, these people would be suffering quite obvious consequences.