Non-sexual blood exposure

[andante]

Hello,

I'm happy to join this community. Even if a less happier event brings me here, I'm still glad to meet you all  

Long story short, few days ago, during an unpredicted incident, my fresh bleeding open wound (at that time) came into tight contact with another active open&bleeding one from a HIV+ guy, for some time. I mention that both of them (hand respective arm) required stitches and medical care.

After this, I debated this exposure on several trusty forums, because I've avoided to look for WIKIs on internet which are full of nonsense information (kindly saying). Even I was adviced about this low risk exposure/no risk, I'm seeking for you opinion however... Is testing typically  required here? Ann, Andy, RapidRod and others...

I was told that this kind of contact is not recognized root of transmission, HIV being very fragile and inactive outside of human body. Also an expert told me that nobody gets HIV from non-sexual personal contact. Despite this, I regard this exposure a little different and that's why I'm here

Thank you for your time.
Best wishes,
J. P.

[Ann]

one of my fresh bleeding open wounds (at that time) came into tight contact with another active open&bleeding one from a HIV+ guy, for some time. I mention that both of them (hand respective arm) required stitches and medical care.

JP,

Are you saying that you both sustained injuries at the same time that required stitches, and then one of you helped the other and ended up grabbing the cut arm with the cut hand? It is unclear exactly how the contact occurred, how direct the contact was and for how long. Please be more specific.

Ann

[andante]

Hey,

At the time of contact both injures were open, fresh and active bleeding, without stitches. My wound has ~ 6cm (tendon cut - between thumb and index finger) and his ~4.5cm (middle finger). I'm sure that the time interval of contact is more than 5-6 seconds. Contact was a grip (grasp) between my hand and his middle finger.

Thanks

Later edit: the fressness of wounds is less than 30-40 seconds. We've been attacked and then a fight started.

[Ann]

JP,

If you were both bleeding profusely, you'd probably be better off testing. This is a highly unusual situation - it's not the same at all as most of the "contact with cuts" questions we get here all the time.

You must understand what I'm about to say before you get yourself all upset - I absolutely would NOT expect you to end up positive over this. However, your hiv status is nothing to guess about. If your friend is definitely positive, then you should test for safety and peace of mind.

If these were just small nicks and/or weren't just-that-moment fresh, then you wouldn't need testing. Given the fact that they were fresh and were deep enough to require stitching and you came into direct, prolonged cut-to-cut contact, you'd be wise to err on the side of caution and test.

I'm hoping what caused the fight and your injuries wasn't a case of gay bashing. If it was, I'm really sorry to hear that.

Again, I would not expect you to test positive over this, but given the direct blood to blood contact with deep cuts, you'd be wise to test just to make absolutely certain.

If this happened 72 or fewer hours ago, you may consider discussing this situation with an emergency room doctor, your personal doctor, or possibly even your friend's hiv doctor to see if PEP might be indicated in your case.

PEP is a course of drugs taken within 72 hours of exposure and continued for 28 days. Taking PEP can stop hiv from taking hold in your body and infecting you. It MUST be started no later than 72 hours after the exposure, so you should think about this NOW.

Ann

[andante]

Thank so much Ann. Unfortunatly 11 days have passed already.
What have concerned me is the fact that I wasn't advised to test, as it was said "no mandatory need to test" by some experts.

And it wasn't a gay bashing, we've been attacked (me, wife and a friend) by soccer hooligans...stabbed wih a knife and hit with a baseball bat.

Other opinions maybe? Thanks!!

[Ann]

Ouch, JP. Sounds like it hurt. Glad your injuries weren't even worse.

As I said before, while I would not expect you to test positive, this is a highly unusual situation and you'd be wise to test, just to make sure. It's a case of "better safe than sorry". Your hiv status is nothing to guess about.

The earliest you should test is at six weeks. The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week negative is highly unlikely to change, but must be confirmed at the three month point.

Don't start micro-examining your body while you wait to test - you'll only start seeing problems where none actually exist. Remember, I do totally expect you to come out of this ok and hiv negative, but you should not leave your hiv status to chance following this highly unusual situation. Good luck.

Ann

[Ann]

Other opinions maybe? Thanks!!

JP,

You have actually already had two opinions. As your situation IS so highly unusual, I took the step of discussing your case with Tim Horn, the president of AIDSmeds.com. He agreed with my assessment and also recommended that I mention the possibility of PEP if you were still in the time-frame for initiation of PEP.

It just goes to show - we really do consider each individual case individually and give assessments that are appropriate to each different case.

Ann

[andante]

Again, thanks a lot. I'll inform you about status in 6 six. Best wishes.

[andante]

Dear members,

Is a 6 months testing (after exposure) required for a conclusive result? An please tell me in which cases. I've read on the web that this requirement may be/is outdated. In UK, BHIVA doesn't say a word about 6 months, only 3.
Thanks.

[Andy Velez]

Andante, I've merged your threads here. In the future please follow our rule and keep any entries you make in this one thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

Generally speaking 3 months is sufficient for a reliable negative result. The exceptions are when longterm intravenous drug use maybe involved or organ transplant or treatment for a severe illness such as cancer. In those cases testing is suggested a 6 months for a conclusive and reliable negative result.

[andante]

Hey experts.

Is HIV1 - Group P detectable for an ELISA 4th generation test?I've read lots of info and I doubt them. But I wanna be 100 sure because I see obvious for a test to look/seek for antibodies and not for strains.

Thanks

[Andy Velez]

A negative result at 13 weeks on that test is a reliable and conclusive result for you.

[andante]

Hello! Thanks for you time and job done here. I know I have a sort of HIV phobia and also it is frustrating (both for me and you) to come and post here every time when I have some doubts.

I was at a party, in a public place, I got drunk and I can't remember anything. I am constantly afraid of being injected by a drug user as there are a lot of junkies hating me. I saw after I woke a red puncture-like mark between thumb and index finger.
Doesn't hurt and no special other signs of injection are there.

Please asses my risk. Thanks. I seriously take into consideration some mental in case of no risk.

[Matty the Damned]

Hello! Thanks for you time and job done here. I know I have a sort of HIV phobia and also it is frustrating (both for me and you) to come and post here every time when I have some doubts.

I was at a party, in a public place, I got drunk and I can't remember anything. I am constantly afraid of being injected by a drug user as there are a lot of junkies hating me. I saw after I woke a red puncture-like mark between thumb and index finger.
Doesn't hurt and no special other signs of injection are there.

Please asses my risk. Thanks. I seriously take into consideration some mental in case of no risk.

Ah yes. The "mystery needle attack".

You weren't stabbed with a needle. That sort of thing just doesn't happen. No injecting drug user would waste a hit on anyone but himself.

You are either making this story up or you're totally confused.

In any event this is completely a non risk situation. You were not at risk for HIV infection and you do not need to be tested.

Ya dig?

MtD

[andante]

I understand. It is not so easy to deal with fear and anxiety when some "signs" on your own body are "available".
Thanks

[Matty the Damned]

I understand. It is not so easy to deal with fear and anxiety when some "signs" on your own body are "available".
Thanks

Well crack out the Crayolas and colour you passive-aggressive. 

Listen kid, we've heard the whole "I'm sure I've been stabbed with a needle!" story eleventy-squillion times before. You're just the latest in a long line of Worried Wells.

I've got no doubt that your fear of HIV infection is real. But fears are not facts.

The fact is that you were not stabbed with a needle by some unknown assailant. That just doesn't happen in the real world.

You need to understand that this forum is not a substitute for the services of a mental health professional.

Seriously, do yourself and us a favour. See a counsellor.

You do not have HIV infection.

For the record red spots between your fingers (and toes for that matter) could be a sign of scabies infestation. Scabies has nothing to do with HIV. When you see your doctor, ask him or her about that.

Best regards,

MtD