POZ Community Forums

Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Boo Radley on February 14, 2007, 09:10:23 pm

Title: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Boo Radley on February 14, 2007, 09:10:23 pm: I know this probably belongs in Treatment but no one ever goes there...

Earlier I read another summary of the Johns Hopkins 6 year HAART study thread posted in the Research News forum:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8965.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8965.0)

This summary makes a very alarming (to me) statement -- CD4 count increases stopped after someone was on HAART for 4 years.

My question for anyone who has been taking meds for HIV (i.e., anti-viral) is if your CD4 count increased after you'd been on HAART for 4 years. IOW, did your count continue to go up or did it stop at a certain level (range)?

I'm really rather bummed if this is true. I know it's just one study but 100% of the patients had CD4 counts plateau after 4 years on HAART.

Boo
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Lisa on February 14, 2007, 10:08:16 pm: OH BULLSHIT!
I've been on the same COCTAIL for four years(maybe a smidge more) and have been as steady as the Rock of Gilbralter in my VL,CD4 & %.
Why would you worry your pretty little head about such drivel?
I KNOW you someone who has done pretty well for a few years. C'mon, you sure?
I have been on Trizivir and Viramune since 2002.

Oh pshaw! I know its Martini - time somewhere! Coctail anyone? :P
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: sdcabincrew74 on February 14, 2007, 10:24:53 pm: not to be a downer but I started meds 18 months ago. at that time I had a percentage of 8 a CD4 of 22 and VL off the charts......

about nine months ago I seemed to level off CD4 in the mid 400-500's depending on the test, percentage right around 28 and VL undetectable and I seem to be stuck there.....

I just assumed it would not go higher and given the vast improvement and the fact I feel great and live a full life I was pretty happy. Yeah a CD4 of 800 would be nice, but who knows, maybe I only ever had 500 or so anyway....
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: 020501 on February 14, 2007, 11:34:15 pm: i've been on combivir and sustiva for 6 years. cd4s aren't climbing as fast as they once did, but i'm still on the rise. i dont remember the exact numbers from my last visit, but they were my highest yet, 600s and 30-something percent.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Sky on February 14, 2007, 11:37:00 pm: Quote from: sdcabincrew74 on February 14, 2007, 10:24:53 pm
not to be a downer but I started meds 18 months ago. at that time I had a percentage of 8 a CD4 of 22 and VL off the charts......

about nine months ago I seemed to level off CD4 in the mid 400-500's depending on the test, percentage right around 28 and VL undetectable and I seem to be stuck there.....

I just assumed it would not go higher and given the vast improvement and the fact I feel great and live a full life I was pretty happy. Yeah a CD4 of 800 would be nice, but who knows, maybe I only ever had 500 or so anyway....
You're CD4 at the start of meds was already severly suppressed, it's going to take your body sometime to repair then you will see a climb again.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: sdcabincrew74 on February 14, 2007, 11:50:57 pm: Quote from: Sky on February 14, 2007, 11:37:00 pm
You're CD4 at the start of meds was already severly suppressed, it's going to take your body sometime to repair then you will see a climb again.

Yes I was very sick when I started meds. My doctor really never thought I would surpass about 300 but here I am in the "pretty much normal range" he says they may never get better and that is fine by me. As long as we keep this level and meds continue to NOT destory my body then I can live a long and happy and productive life.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: joemutt on February 14, 2007, 11:57:15 pm: For me it wasn't like that.
Started on Haart with

june 1997 220
august 2003 870
february 2006 1201
january 2007 1154.

So after 5 years it still went up.
mb it should be looked at over 10 yrs instead of 6 ;)
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Sky on February 15, 2007, 12:04:17 am: Quote from: sdcabincrew74 on February 14, 2007, 11:50:57 pm
Yes I was very sick when I started meds. My doctor really never thought I would surpass about 300 but here I am in the "pretty much normal range" he says they may never get better and that is fine by me. As long as we keep this level and meds continue to NOT destory my body then I can live a long and happy and productive life.
Yeah a friend of mine sat at 320 or so for several years, but now has passed the 700 mark, so it'll come if you continue to take care of yourself.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: sdcabincrew74 on February 15, 2007, 12:59:21 am: Thanks for the glimmer of hope. I am a good boy, sleep, take my pills, eat decent, and avoid street drugs .... hind site is indeed 20/20
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Sky on February 15, 2007, 01:03:38 am: Quote from: sdcabincrew74 on February 15, 2007, 12:59:21 am
hind site is indeed 20/20
god isn't that the truth lol. Hang in there, it gets easier with each day. I'm all ears if you ever need someone to vent to or just talk. PM box is always open.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Cheo63 on February 15, 2007, 01:08:27 am: I'm not sure that is necessarily true for everyone. I've been on meds for over 10 years and my cd4 count is well over 1100.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: SASA39 on February 15, 2007, 06:16:25 am: Like I have said before :
There is nit beaten tracks in here........or try to find a some in the Net
Or to quote Einstein : one grain on the head is low , but in the soup is too much..........everything is relative
More important (or equally) is a composition of a CD4 cells , or do you have all types of it.......................
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Razorbill on February 15, 2007, 06:24:35 am: My numbers are below. Read 'em and be unimpressed. My tcells once climbed into the 500's, but after an ill-advised TI 2 yrs ago (my own half-assed idea), they fell and have never recovered. In fact they seem to be trending down. I go for a blood draw this Sat for a doc appt. end of month. Should be interesting. Can't say I have a good feeling about this. Hoping for the best. Gulp.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: SASA39 on February 15, 2007, 06:48:45 am: Just to add :
this matter depends of many things
your natural genetic staus before the infection , number of CD4 at therapy-start , age , sex , additional suplements , overuse of alcohol- tobbaco-dpoe ,
, adherence to therapy , genotype test for apropriate kind of medecine , side-effects , drug toxicity , liver "durability" , emotional status .............................to name just few factors...........
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: jack on February 15, 2007, 07:27:09 am: I have been taking drugs 1989. I was in trials for Crix. My CD4 stayed between 350 and 400 till 2000 when I went on a drug holiday for three years(lipo and resistance). My Vl went to a million in 36 month. CD4 went to 250 and stayed there till this year. 6 months ago I became undectectable for the first time and last week my CD4 rose to 360, the highest they have been in 7 years.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Razorbill on February 15, 2007, 07:36:02 am: Jack,
Good news. So you've been back on drugs since 2003 and it's taken you a while to register a tcell jump. i guess I need to wait it out. 'Course what other option do I have? lol
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: dad1216 on February 15, 2007, 09:22:19 am: I have never seen an increase in my CD4's since starting meds in 1999. I would guess that with all the different regimens that I have been on, they probably kept my numbers from decreasing at a slower rate. I remember all the times I waited to hear results from my labs that indicated an increase, but in my battle, it just never happened. Well once i went from 54 to 65, but the next one went to 8 then 3 and that is when HAART ended for me. It brings a smile to my face when I see others post their increasing numbers, but most often a tear, as I so want to hear that news in my lifetime.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: DanielMark on February 15, 2007, 09:42:23 am: I will let my tag info speak for itself.

Meds: Kaletra & Combivir (since 2002)
Nov 2006 lab results: CD4 816 (28.3%) VL still undetectable

Diagnosed in 1988

CD4 counts like viral load counts can fluctuate by quite wide margins, and for variious reasons. I no longer grapple with OIs like I did before going on meds. Make of that what you will.

Daniel
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: Londonguy on February 15, 2007, 10:21:16 am: Quote from: dad1216 on February 15, 2007, 09:22:19 am
I have never seen an increase in my CD4's since starting meds in 1999. I would guess that with all the different regimens that I have been on, they probably kept my numbers from decreasing at a slower rate. I remember all the times I waited to hear results from my labs that indicated an increase, but in my battle, it just never happened. Well once i went from 54 to 65, but the next one went to 8 then 3 and that is when HAART ended for me. It brings a smile to my face when I see others post their increasing numbers, but most often a tear, as I so want to hear that news in my lifetime.

I'm really sorry to hear that, it sounds like you have been very unlucky. It's easy to take for granted that your CD4s will climb when you are on HAART. I have to admit, I have been scared by the thought that my CD4s may never increase but considering I have only been on it for a week it's best if I try not to think about stuff like that.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: poet on February 15, 2007, 11:48:27 am: I can't give you the actual years on HAART. I have been hiv positive since 1984. So assume HAART for roughly 10-15 years, my cd4/cd8 ratio has remained constant for 20 years, my cd4's were around 250 when I started, moved into the 400's and have remained in the 400's since. My flux is 430 t0 450 to.... Why mine are stuck where they are, who knows. Best, Win
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: ademas on February 15, 2007, 12:07:39 pm: It hasn't been my experience, Boo (that my numbers have stalled after 4 years on HAART).

I started on a clinical trial in '94 with CD4's at 79 (4%).

It took forever to get above 200, but my labs from 1/17/98 were CD4's 199 (11%). I believe that was the last time I was under 200.

Fast-forward to labs from 01/28/05: CD4's 390 (19%)

Fast-forward again to my best labs ever, 12/26/06: CD4's 616 (26%)

I know there are lots of holes there, but I don't recall any drastic changes in my nearly 13 years on HAART (except for a quick drop last August when I started methotrexate for arthritis, which seemed to correct itself quickly). Just a continual and gradual upward increase, which (if anything) has seemed to accelerate the last couple of years.
Title: Re: question for those on HAART at least 4 or more years
Post by: SirPrize on February 15, 2007, 12:47:45 pm: I have been on and off various Antiretrovirals since 1991 but did not start "true" HAART until October 2000. In 1991 I started AZT monotherapy (withdrew in early 1992 due to intolerance), 1994 Videx monotherapy (for about 9 months until I had a problem with Pancreatitis and kidney stones), 1996 until October 2000 (Zerit and Epivir). In October 2000, my doc added Sustiva and officially began HAART. My numbers between 1991 and 2000 bounced between 320 at the highest and 189 at the lowest, but mainly remained in the mid 200's.

Shortly after beginning HAART in late 2000, the numbers eventually climbed from the low 200's to the low 300's. Another change in mid 2006, dropped the Zerit and Epivir and added Truvada, and the numbers again began to rise. The latest test in December showed I had a CD4 count of 351, % 18, VL 750. The results of the study may be in generalized terms but for me, post-4 years, my CD4 count has risen.