"The View" Discusses The Ban On Gays Donating Blood

[tednlou2]

On Tuesday, "The View" discussed the ban on gays donating blood.  First, they had a guest co-host who I had no idea was gay.  He is a news anchor for Headline News I think.  His name is Thomas Roberts.

I was reading that a heterosexual who has had sex with someone known to be HIV poz only has to wait 1 year before they can donate blood.  Does anyone know if this is true?  I haven't confirmed that yet.  Gays are banned forever.  It is a discriminating policy that should be unnecessary, if they are truly testing the blood.  On another note, I thought there was a ban on paying people for plasma.  However, I just saw a local commercial saying you can earn money by donating plasma.  You can watch the segment below.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/06/22/The_View_Tackles_Gay_Blood_Ban/

[mecch]

They banned gays selling their sperm in the 1980s in the USA.  That pissed me off cause it seemed like a good way to keep injecting faggot dna in the population.

Blood donations?  25 years adult life HIV- and I always thought - "they don't want my blood, fuck 'em, their loss!"

[Boze]

They banned gays selling their sperm in the 1980s in the USA.  That pissed me off cause it seemed like a good way to keep injecting faggot dna in the population.

Why? Is it just "more of my kind - hence good" kind of thinking or objective reasons?

[mecch]

more homos = good, yes.

call it subjective or objective.

[Boze]

more homos = good, yes.

call it subjective or objective.

That was my question to you. Do you think society/individual benefits from it or you just like the idea of more of your kind running around (which is what parenting all about in the first place imho

Also - i'm curious if any studies were done on the likelihood of gays having gay children vs population at large.

Lastly - do you think it would be morally right to reveal on the donor questionnaire your sexuality? Did they ask?

[Miss Philicia]

Also - i'm curious if any studies were done on the likelihood of gays having gay children vs population at large.

This matters why exactly? 

And "ps" -- use of "your kind" isn't the greatest language.

[skeebo1969]

And "ps" -- use of "your kind" isn't the greatest language.

I always like to say, "Them peoples", and I know a black person.

[Rev. Moon]

I always like to say, "Them peoples", and I know a black person.

Oh wow, one black person; you are so lucky. I have a token gay friend.

[skeebo1969]

Oh wow, one black person; you are so lucky. I have a token gay friend.

Yeah and until she goes to bed every night my days are filled with fear.  I actually have a token white friend, he's like me, pretty darn screwed up.  We both entered our identity crisis days together, he never got rid of the gold teeth and still drives a 73 Impala on 22's.  I quit the high top fade when the left side of my hairline went too far back!  You can only razor a line part so far before part of your forehead reaches the middle of your scalp.   

Where am I going with this??  I don't know I gotta bald spot coming in the back now and the dread closest to it seems to be holding on by only two hairs..  finito

[phildinftlaudy]

Yeah and until she goes to bed every night my days are filled with fear.  I actually have a token white friend, he's like me, pretty darn screwed up.  We both entered our identity crisis days together, he never got rid of the gold teeth and still drives a 73 Impala on 22's.  I quit the high top fade when the left side of my hairline went too far back!  You can only razor a line part so far before part of your forehead reaches the middle of your scalp.   

Where am I going with this??  I don't know I gotta bald spot coming in the back now and the dread closest to it seems to be holding on by only two hairs..  finito

Skeebo - I am ROFLMAO at work --- probably because there is a lot of what u just said that I can relate to....

[Miss Philicia]

I have a token gay friend.

Oh, me too

[Rev. Moon]

Oh, me too

please stop adding links to pictures of me. I'm very shy.

[mecch]

1)  That was my question to you. Do you think society/individual benefits from it or you just like the idea of more of your kind running around (which is what parenting all about in the first place imho

2)  Also - i'm curious if any studies were done on the likelihood of gays having gay children vs population at large.

3)  Lastly - do you think it would be morally right to reveal on the donor questionnaire your sexuality? Did they ask?

1) Society benefits.

2) That is a topic for its own thread.  However my professors in human development do believe it is genetic but how that works out in populations is complex. 

3) They ask rather complete family medical histories and personal bios of the donors.  They sell the sperm of course its not really a donation since the giver get a little sum and the bank gets an enormous sum.  Given the complexity of 2) (is it genetic) I think one would be justified in lying about the sexuality question (and only that question - not if your maternal line has heart attacks), as a political act AGAINST discrimination against homos. 

[mecch]

Oh, me too

Shit can I be friends with your friends?

[Boze]

This matters why exactly? 

And "ps" -- use of "your kind" isn't the greatest language.

Mecch said that he wanted to donate sperm to 'increase the amount of gay dna in population'. Hence i am curious whether gays have a higher probability of having gay children. And if so by how much. Purely scientific curiosity.

On the 'you kind' - you can safely assume that I am a gay-friendly person with  gay friends, etc. I am not comfortable using harsh vocabulary like faggot (as an in-joke since I'm not really "in"), but feel that my being already a minority here qualifies me for somewhat un-pc language.    

[mecch]

Mecch said that he wanted to donate sperm to 'increase the amount of gay dna in population'.

No I said in the 80's they banned gay sperm, at the same time they banned gay blood. Or at least that is what I meant to say.

I admit nothing about the dissemination of my sperm in the 80's!

In a nutshell - society doesn't want hiv- "gay blood"?  Fuck the establishment providing the blood, then.

They don't want gay sperm?  I vote for subterfuge.

[skeebo1969]

On the 'you kind' - you can safely assume that I am a gay-friendly person with  gay friends, etc. I am not comfortable using harsh vocabulary like faggot (as an in-joke since I'm not really "in"), but feel that my being already a minority here qualifies me for somewhat un-pc language.    

Your a breeder?

[Rev. Moon]

Your a breeder?

Yeah, he's sposed to be skrait. Bozus heterus.

[Queen Tokelove]

Why does anyone need a "token" anything?

[skeebo1969]

Why does anyone need a "token" anything?

A take a "token" bath once a week.

[phildinftlaudy]

I used to use a token when I took the bus and the Metro up in DC and the subway in NYC....

[Boze]

1) Society benefits.

2) That is a topic for its own thread.  However my professors in human development do believe it is genetic but how that works out in populations is complex. 

3) They ask rather complete family medical histories and personal bios of the donors.  They sell the sperm of course its not really a donation since the giver get a little sum and the bank gets an enormous sum.  Given the complexity of 2) (is it genetic) I think one would be justified in lying about the sexuality question (and only that question - not if your maternal line has heart attacks), as a political act AGAINST discrimination against homos. 

I also think that society benefits - but probably at the expense of the individual. Therefore - if one believes that homosexuality is genetic (and being one increases the likelihood of passing it on), I think the wish of the mother should be primary determinant.

Ie if she's indifferent - so be it. If she wants a heterosexual father - that's her prerogative.

Your a breeder?

That's us - keeping the evolution going for the last 1 billion years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_reproduction

[mecch]

I think the wish of the mother should be primary determinant.
Ie if she's indifferent - so be it. If she wants a heterosexual father - that's her prerogative.

If it is genetic, that doesn't mean it must be expressed so directly - e.g. from parent to child.

(In my family generation among dozens of cousins it was expressed twice, with no identified homo parent of the two, but two homos in the preceding generation.)

When i thought about this in the 80's there was no question of genetic testing for buying a made to order baby.  Currently I am not sure where I stand about that.  I think its hilarious if the mother wants to buy sperm from a "genius", so be it.  If todays sperm banks (or any kind of fertility clinique) can test fathers/donors for genetic propensities - well I'm not sure I agree if this always OK.  As for sperm banks, I think the mother has a right to know the basic biographical info (and not genetic propensity info) that any woman shopping for a husband can know if she cares to know.

On the other hand, if they can test the fetus, I guess its OK to abort for some very grave and definite expressions - "your fetus will be severely mentally and physcially handicapped" - but even then, not always.  Certainly no abortion based on gender, or "propensity" to express a certain sexual orientation. Thats in the ideal, of course - in moral theory.

In brief, a mother is supposed to love and cherish who she pops out, cause the child is always always gonna be a surprise, and a unique being.

[Hellraiser]

The mother's wish?  Which mother yearns to have a homo child precisely?

[hotpuppy]

Oh, me too

Darling, I think that is the kind of friend that *takes* tokens..... or other items of value.  Very nice....

[Miss Philicia]

Are we now discussing DNA testing to allow the mother to abort an unwanted gay baby?  Nice, Borzel... nice.

[skeebo1969]

I also think that society benefits - but probably at the expense of the individual. Therefore - if one believes that homosexuality is genetic (and being one increases the likelihood of passing it on), I think the wish of the mother should be primary determinant.

Ie if she's indifferent - so be it. If she wants a heterosexual father - that's her prerogative.

That's us - keeping the evolution going for the last 1 billion years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_reproduction

Wtf?

[Queen Tokelove]

I used to use a token when I took the bus and the Metro up in DC and the subway in NYC....

I am in NYC now and I have never seen anyone use a token to get on the train so that must've been a long,long,long, time ago.....Ms. P, your assistance please, the bad man has me confused.....

[Miss Philicia]

I am in NYC now and I have never seen anyone use a token to get on the train so that must've been a long,long,long, time ago.....Ms. P, your assistance please, the bad man has me confused.....

Tokens were used up until the mid-90's on NYC subways.  I think the price was $.095 when I first moved there at the end of 1989.

I grew up in the DC burbs, and AFAIK there was never a token system at least not on the subway.  DC Metro opened in 1976 for the Bicentennial celebrations and I took it that first week, and it's always used electronic zone-based fair cards.  I can't recall what the buses did at that time as I never took them.

We still use tokens in Filthydelphia because it's avery ass-backwards city. They keep saying we're going to get them though.

[phildinftlaudy]

I was partially wrong --
I was stationed in DC area in the Army 1986-1988 -- it was an all electronic system - no tokens on the Metro
I lived in Brooklyn Heights, NY back in 1992 and used tokens on subway
I was more just making a play on the whole "token" discussion that was taking place   

[hotpuppy]

I know a few places of ill repute that can be fun to go that still take tokens.... muhahaha.

Anyhow.... I think genetically modifying your unborn child is immoral and ought to be illegal except in cases of significant birth defects such as brain defects, missing limbs, etc etc.  Even then the parent needs to think long and hard about the conequences and if what are they doing is "right" for them, their religion, etc.

[Boze]

Are we now discussing DNA testing to allow the mother to abort an unwanted gay baby?  Nice, Borzel... nice.

I don't think that's sufficient grounds for abortion. But - how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

Wtf?

You need to be more specific which part of my comment caused your jaw to drop.

[john33]

how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

NOT, i know there are religious nuts who say Gay's don't have the right to live; not that they can do much about it unless they want to spend their futures in prison. But this would create a more accessible means of weeding out unwanted traits (gay, handicaps,hair colour, you choose).

In fact to follow this to it's conclusion, didn't Hitler try something similar, if in a more extreme sense

[mecch]

I don't think that's sufficient grounds for abortion. But - how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

WTF!  You are beyond the pale Boze.

[Miss Philicia]

I don't think that's sufficient grounds for abortion. But - how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

Sounds more like trolling to me, seeing as how 80% of the board is gay.

[john33]

weel put miss P,

I'm guilty of responding before engaging my brain and realising what was going on

[skeebo1969]

You need to be more specific which part of my comment caused your jaw to drop.

I guess the part where you inferred retardation comparable to being gay... 

[Hellraiser]

Everyone's cinema homework for the day: Gattaca

I don't think Boze is trolling he's just trying to approach the subject from a somewhat neutral position.
I personally wouldn't want to tinker with my would-be children's genetics, but I know all too many parents that would. 

Boze you would do well to realize that your world view and the view of the rest of us who are gay is worlds apart.  You may want to temper your statements about homosexuality with that in mind to avoid some conflict, but you are as entitled to your opinion as any of the rest of us.  You are in essence advocating a parent's choice to change something that is such a strong core principle to a large percentage of us that we would not even be close to the same people we are today.  That's why everyone's kind of shocked by what you're saying.

[Rev. Moon]

I don't think that's sufficient grounds for abortion. But - how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

::faints in absolute disgust::

someone please give me my poppers.

[Jeff G]

I'm just wondering if young Boze and the kids he used to play doctor with lived to tell about it .

[bocker3]

Hmmm... this topic has wondered a bit....

But.........  every gay person I know (token or otherwise) came from straight parents.  So -- homosexuality must be caused by..............   gasp, Heterosexuals!

[Ann]

Borez, you need to understand that your comments are offensive. How do I know this? Because I get the moderator reports. You need to STFU and keep your homophobic comments to yourself.

If you have no idea what I'm on about, and I suspect you don't, then you need to do some serious soul-searching before you continue to post on this forum.

[Joe K]

I don't think that's sufficient grounds for abortion. But - how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

Only if we can have genetic therapy to turn off your homophobic views. Oh but wait, being gay is genetic, where as homophobia, being a form of hate, is learned. So what exactly did your parents do wrong?

[leatherman]

how about genetic therapy (in the future) that turns it off? Acceptable or not - discuss.

of course it's not acceptable. And that's where you went wrong. by even suggesting that we discuss such an issue.

However, just like a slew of the religious-right heteros wanted to put us pozzies into camps, a bunch of heteros will always be drooling at the prospect of "fixing" their children. Everyone can be as shocked/upset/disgusted as they want to be; but that's the reality of a mindset out there that is very prevalent. Under the guise of "I don't want my baby to be discriminated against and live being hated" that kind of parent would be more than happy to be homophobic and tweak their little tadpole so it doesn't grow up to be homosexual.

although as it was pointed out to me back in Feb or so, there is no gay gene to tweak, so everyone's angst about Boze not suggesting genetic therapy turn off the gay gene is moot anyway.

[tednlou2]

The Southern Baptist Seminary is headquartered here in Louisville and ran by Albert Mohler.  I was surprised about 2 years ago that he said he now believes homosexuality is something people are born with.  Sounds good, right?  However, he said scientists should come up with a way to "fix" the gay.  I thought Christians believed we shouldn't mess with the unborn baby at all, because that is how God planned it.  Interesting he now believes it would be okay to "fix" the gay.

[Andy Velez]

Boze, if science ever identifies the gene for bigotry, "your kind" will be in trouble.

In the meantime whether you remain clueless or not about the nature of yoru remarks, Ann put her finger right up the matter when she said STFU.

I'm leaving this thread open for now and figuring that any further comments will get back to the original intention of the thread to discuss the ban on gays donating blood.

[Boze]

I'm sorry if anyone took offense to my suggestion for a topic of discussion - but I never advocated or suggested this. I was interested to hear the view of 'interested parties'. Mecch introduced the interesting concept of 'increasing gay dna' in the gene pool via a sperm bank, so I thought about the opposite effect of people tweaking their dna.

I realize this is sensitive - so apologize for treading on uncomfortable issues. But I assure you that I'm just intellectually curious, not a bit 'anti-what-you-are' Hellraiser got it right - it's like I  come from a different planet, unencumbered by taboos or topics closed for discussion. So think of me as a friendly alien who needs to be explained things you take for granted.

[skeebo1969]

   Hello kiddies!!  The keyword today is Narcissism...  In the next hour we will be having a game of hangman and the first word is 9 letters and starts with a B.

[phildinftlaudy]

I pick an "R" -- Are there any "R's" in the word?

[john33]

I'm picking an "A", vowels are always a good place to start

(edited to add) and I think we'd better leave it there and get back to the OP before our dark empress gives us a rap over the knuckles

[Ann]

Boze, You really do need to start doing some thinking before you post such inane topic suggestions. This isn't the first time you've done this sort of thing here, but it had better be the last. Got it?

Ann

[Joe K]

I realize this is sensitive - so apologize for treading on uncomfortable issues. But I assure you that I'm just intellectually curious, not a bit 'anti-what-you-are' Hellraiser got it right - it's like I  come from a different planet, unencumbered by taboos or topics closed for discussion. So think of me as a friendly alien who needs to be explained things you take for granted.

But you are not an alien and certainly not friendly, so drop that intellectually bankrupt argument right now. The reason that gays cannot donate blood or sperm, get married, adopt children and a myriad of other things, is because of people who think, speak and act, just like you. You seem to believe that curiosity justifies your saying whatever you want, as if you bear no personal responsibility, for the beliefs you espouse. You can try and couch them as honest queries, but when you use terms such as "your kind", it becomes obvious that you are just another homophobic person, who is incapable of displaying respect for anyone, who is different from you or hold views that you do not share.

I have had to suffer people like you, my entire life and the last place I expect to find homophobes like you, is on a forum that is heavily populated by decent, caring people, many of whom, just happen to be gay. You seem to be confused about what being gay means. The term encompasses much more than an attraction for the same sex and we each remain individual and unique individuals. Being gay is part of who and what I am, it does not define who and what I am.

Personally I find you to be a disgusting human being and I eagerly await the news that you have been banned from these forums. In the past six months, this forum has lost three beloved members and nobody cares if they were gay, straight or whatever. What mattered was who they were, what they did and how much they were loved. There is no room here, ever, for anyone who thinks they can spew whatever hatred and not be called to task for it. However, what I find most distasteful, is your thinking you can conceal your hate-filled views, under the cloak of intellectual curiosity. Not very smart... not smart at all and totally unacceptable.

In the end Boze, while I would like to understand your views, I am afraid that there is simply, not enough room, up your ass, for both of our heads. 

[mecch]

Boze I guess i was the only one who understood you were asking in theory and not espousing your personal view.  Merde les gens ici peuvent etre tellement 1er dègre!

[Hellraiser]

Boze I guess i was the only one who understood you were asking in theory and not espousing your personal view.  Merde les gens ici peuvent etre tellement 1er dègre!

I caught that he didn't necessarily think that way, although he didn't specifically state he doesn't.  However, this is kind of a sensitive issue not necessarily for me, but I can see where others could be offended by it.

[mecch]

Good news.  

There's something in media studies called "The Jerry Springer We".  He was a clever guy who decided to incite people to be incredibly lowbrow. Then at the end he would give a "we" statement of common wisdom truths and we the audience were supposed to join him in admonishment of the lowbrow lowlife offenses we just watched (and enjoyed thoroughly, thinking ourselves better).  However the cynical view was that "we" were therefore duped as well because nothing was real - neither the lowlife, nor the common wisdom.  And we couldn't really know what Jerry Springer thought, because he was speaking in tongues.  

Most talk shows were infected with this weird fakeness by the end of the 90's.

Internet boards are rife with the "we".  You simply have to make an effort to decide if something is personal or mostly for the sake of discussion, if it is ironic or sarcastic or earnest.   

[Joe K]

I caught that he didn't necessarily think that way, although he didn't specifically state he doesn't.  However, this is kind of a sensitive issue not necessarily for me, but I can see where others could be offended by it.

My issue with his comments, are the atmosphere in which he presents them. When you start throwing around terms like "your kind" or "you people", it is speech, meant to demean and nothing more. I am old enough to remember when "you people" was used against blacks, Jews or other minority groups and it is as demeaning and unacceptable now, as it was then. Can you not see that it is beliefs, shared by him, codified into laws or rules, that classifies gays as second class citizens? It is because of this prejudice that we cannot donate blood or the myriad of other things that we are barred from.

When you give a platform to hate speech and make no mistake, his is hate speech, you give legitimacy to those views. It may seem a minor point, but not all speech is equal, nor deserving of any platform from which to spew those views. I believe that so many people today, do not understand the damage that hate speech engenders. It always starts with a thought, put into words and often resulting in oppression of the target group. Even the US Supreme Court has ruled that not all speech is protected by the First Amendment and certainly not in a forum, so heavily populated by gays.

[mecch]

MTD routinely uses all kinds of faggot insults on other fags in these forums.  I dont really love it when he does it to me but I also know its between two fags so I'm not supposed to be offended. I'm supposed to know hes not a homophobic faggot!
Now how do you know Boze didnt use such expressions as "your kind" in some sort of clumsy attempt to show the opposite of homophobia.  As in, ironic, "speaking in tongues" use.

I never got a homophobic vibe from Boze. More like a gadfly and intellectual who likes to argue for the sake of arguing. 

You know, this forum welcomes all members with open arms. But when a newbie or newish member wants to start contributing to general discussions about wide ranging topics, he or she has to "muscle in" a little bit.
And then the shit parade rain starts, from established members who don't take to being muscled on the dance floor.  I think many of you could recognise this happens, and somehow be a little less personal with the criticisms and outright character attacks.

I don't think I have ever intended to offend someone though surely I have done so clumsily or inadvertently. A clumsy offense is still an offense, and can be called out, but its not a sign of some evil or dispicable character. 

The vituperative, personal attacks I sometimes get from long established members is surprising!

[Tim Horn]

As nobody has taken any interest in bringing the conversation back to its original intent, I'm locking this one up.

Oh, and Joe (Killfoile), taking issue with Boze's statement -- no matter what its intent -- is one thing, calling him a "disgusting human being" is another thing entirely. Consider yourself warned.

Tim

[Andy Velez]

Damn! Tim beat me to slamming down the locker on this one! I almost turned the lock this morning. Seems too much got stirred up to stay on subject. 

In the meantime, whether you are gay or stragiht, go on out now and have a great, safe and enjoyable Pride weekend.