POZ Community Forums

HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: PK22 on January 13, 2007, 02:31:13 pm

Title: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 13, 2007, 02:31:13 pm
Ok guys i need your opinions,

Back in november i had protected vaginal and oral sex with a prostitute in amsterdam.  I concerned i might of contracted hiv from this event.  The reason i'm concerned is that the prostitute used a lubricant, i dont know if this was oil or water based, all i can say is that my genital area wasnt greasey or oily in the slightest after the event.  During the event i remember the prostitute commenting that i must of ejaculated because ther was fluid in my condom, i hadnt ejaculated, and when i looked at the condom it seemed in tack.  Would this be likely to be pre-cum?  Or could her fluid of got into my condom.

Anyway, since then i have been ill for 8 weeks, i lost loads of weight, had sore throat, been sick loads, i've been extremely worried since the event.  I've been tested on 3 occasions, they are as follows

2 weeks post

All stds - Negative
Hiv 1 + 2 Antibody - Negative
P24 Antigen - Negative

4 weeks post

Hiv 1+2 Antibody - Negative
P24 Antigen - negative
Hep A-B-C - negative
Syphilis - Negative

7 weeks post

Hiv 1+2 Antibody - Negative
P24 Antigen - Negative
Syphilis - Negative

What is the likely hood that i've got hiv from the information i've provided?

regards and thanks

P.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: md on January 13, 2007, 06:01:58 pm
Based on the information you provided you do not have HIV.

You had protected intercourse which did not put you at risk, *and* you have tested negative 8 weeks after the event.

Normally you would have to wait for 12 weeks for the test to be considered conclusive, but a negative test at 8 weeks has a very high probablity of being correct - in addition to which the incident that you described should not have put you at risk in the first place!

I suspect that the prostitute's comment that you "must have ejaculated" when, in fact, you had not was probably just an attempt on her part to end the session because it was taking too long and she wanted to move on to the next client ...

You should consult a doctor about your symptoms and try to figure out what is actually wrong with you.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 13, 2007, 08:30:09 pm
PK,

It doesn't matter who you have intercourse with, a condom will protect you against hiv transmission and infection. You haven't had a risk for hiv infection. Sex workers use condoms and lube to protect themselves, not you, so you can be sure that the correct lube was used and the condom remained intact.

In the case of an actual risk, a six week negative is very encouraging and unlikely to change, but must be confirmed at three months. As you did not have a risk you can consider yourself to be hiv negative.

You need to use condoms with anyone, not just sex workers. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

You do not need further testing at this point, but make sure you start having regular check ups if you're going to be sexually active.

Use condoms and avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 14, 2007, 10:19:36 am
Ann,

How convinced should i be that the sex worker used a water based lubricant, i can just remember that it was a large blue bottle, reminded me of a sun tan lotion bottle.  I'm scared to death the it was oil, and that the fluid was hers and not mine.  I've got a girlfriend to think about in all this, i know my infedelty is unforgivable, and its a mistake i will never do again.  I've seen symptoms in my girlfriend of hiv as well as myself.  I had a sore throat with swollen glands, then a few days later my girlfriend developed a sore throat, runny nose and a swollen gland on her neck.  It scared me to death to the point of being sick.  She's also tired all the time at the mo, i'm hoping this is coincidence not my worst nightmare.

thanks for your advice

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 14, 2007, 10:27:27 am
I really like these threads that says, "I've got a girlfriend, husband, wife, boyfriend to think about." Why don't you think before you react? You did not have a risk, oil base or not, your condom did not fail. If it would have, you would have known without a doubt.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 14, 2007, 10:30:26 am
PK,

Why would a sex worker use a oil based lube? She's at far greater risk for hiv and other sexually transmitted infections if a condom should break. That's what oil based lubes might do, cause the condom to break. They don't make them leak. When a condom breaks it's very noticeable. Yours did not break.

Quote
I had a sore throat with swollen glands, then a few days later my girlfriend developed a sore throat, runny nose and a swollen gland on her neck.


It's called a cold and this is cold and flu season.

Unless you and your girlfriend have tested for hiv and all other sexually transmitted infections and are securely monogamous, you should be using condoms with her. Hiv doesn't just affect sex workers and gay men, and I'm living proof of that.

It's not WHO you have unprotected intercourse with that puts you at risk, it's having unprotected intercourse with someone whose hiv status you don't know. If you haven't tested together with them, they you DON'T know their hiv status.

Wise up and start using condoms with everyone, not just sex workers.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 14, 2007, 10:36:42 am
My girlfriend was a virgin before i meant her, and she has been for all std check last year which were clean.  So the only way she can become infected is down to me.  I know that i'm all clear of stds prior to my infedelity, but i just want to convince myself that i didnt catch hiv from my recent risk.  I have been using condoms over the past 7 weeks with my girlfriend, thers been two events of unprotected sex with her since my risk, this was before i got my self into paranoid mode thinking i've got hiv.  I keep reading that condoms fail rapidly when used with oil, i've just gotta convince myself the prostitute was a professional, and she would more about safe sex than anybody.

Ann, would you consider me HIV -ve?

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 14, 2007, 10:52:09 am
There is no doubt about it, that you are negative from this situation.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 14, 2007, 11:13:26 am
PK,

Like I said, when a condom breaks it's obvious. You would have known. The sex worker would have known - you said she commented on there being fluid in the condom after and you can be sure if the condom was broken she would have said so - she wouldn't have been too happy about it. And yes, the fluid in the condom was likely to be pre-cum.

Based on your testing history, you are hiv negative and it's time to move on with your life.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 14, 2007, 04:37:30 pm
The comment regarding the fluid in the condom was made during the act, not at the end.  I penetrated her again after the comment was made.  She did pinch the tip of the condom at the time the comment was made.  She would of noticed if it had failed at the point wouldnt she? 

Regarding, the vast majoirty of people convert by 6 weeks, is that say 90% of people, and the small minority are those people who have other health conditions.  I regard myself as a fairly health young male, so surely i'd fall into the majority section, well i hope so.  Also with my test history, regardless of my symptoms and girlfriends symptoms, i can consider myself negative? that being because one of the tests would of picked up the antigen, and all my came back non detected.

sorry for the PM Ann, didnt realise it wasnt allowed.

thanks again for this great forum,

regards

P.

P.S Ann, the hiv specialist in liverpool, is that at the hospital? i dont live far from liverpool, was wondering if another test next week would do any good for me.  Dont wanna go my GUM clinic, they prob wont test me.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 14, 2007, 04:50:49 pm
PK,

I'd say that you are hiv negative because you haven't had a risk. If you haven't had unprotected intercourse with anyone other than your (virgin) girlfriend for the past three months, then your test is conclusive.

Over 90% will test positive by six weeks, but I don't know the exact number because it doesn't matter. A test must still be confirmed at the three month point when there has been a risk. You didn't have a risk.

The only test that a GUM clinic would use on you is a standard ELISA. Your symptoms mean nothing, they'd go by risk assesment just like we do. You haven't had a risk.

See your doctor about your physical problems, they're nothing to do with hiv.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 14, 2007, 04:55:30 pm
Ann

So the combined hiv1+2 Antibody test and the P24 antigen test is a standard Elisa? I saw the print out, they were both non reactive.  Apparently 18months ago our Sexual Health strategy was updated, so maybe the equipment was updated also.  All i know is that its an automated machine that tests loads of samples at once.

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 14, 2007, 05:00:09 pm
PK,

The antibody bit is what I referred to as being a standard ELISA. Some clinics use the ones bundled with a p24, others do not. There are no other tests they would use on you in your situation.

You can continue to test over this incident as much as you like, the results are not going to change. It's time to accept you are hiv negative and move on with your life. Keep using condoms when you don't know your partner's hiv status and you will remain hiv negative.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 12:09:34 pm
OK guys, i've weighed myself today and i've lost over 14lb, i am a big lad to start with, i.e was 16stone plus now 15stone, this weight has dropped over the past 8 weeks, i've not been eating due to no appetite, and i'm sick on and off.  I'm convinced i've got hiv, today i've noticed my palms have a red and white blotch about them which comes and goes.  I'm really scared, does you opinion still stand that its not hiv related?

regards and thanks

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 15, 2007, 12:14:33 pm
The opinions stand as stated.  And weight loss isnt an indicator of HIV infection.  But it may be a reason you are sick on and off.  Not eating is not healthy.

Based on what you described you are negative.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 12:19:25 pm
How come all the symptoms websites state that significant weight loss is a symptom of hiv? what about my red and white blotchy palms, this comes and gos throughout the day,

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 15, 2007, 12:21:44 pm
Significant weight loss is a sign of MANY illnesses and diseases not EXCLUSIVELY HIV related.  Red and white blotchy palms should be seen by a Dr. to get a proper diagnosis, rash on the hands can be syphillis which is MUCH easier to get than HIV.

Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Andy Velez on January 15, 2007, 12:54:11 pm
You can be convinced all you like that you're HIV positive. Of course that opinion has absolutely no basis in HIV science.

You're just practicing bad medicine on yourself without a license. You are HIV negative. Period. End of story.

If you have symptoms that concern you such as weight loss then you should discuss it with your doctor. If you can't let go of this unwarranted fear then see a therapist or other professional and discuss what's got you holding on to this unwarranted fear.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 01:12:04 pm
Andy, thanks for your comment,

My fear is based on these symptoms,

On/off diarrhea
Vomiting
Sore Throat
Aches and pains all over place
And significant weight loss,

All this began 1 week after my potential exposure

I'm scared to death because my girlfriend has shown symptoms too, i.e sore throat with swollen neck nodes, runny nose (no congestion), and she had a weird period to.  Her sore throat started a few days after mine. 

I'm trying to convince myself that all of the above is just me stressing, and then catching a sore throat, which was then pasted to my girlfriend.  It just the fact i cant get my appetite back, its now been nearly 9 weeks since exposure.

I've spoke to my doctor, and he just keeps saying I've gotta wait till 3 months has past, which i know, but the wait is killing me.  Hence a test at 7 weeks.  Although not conclusive i took some reassurance from it, but a week later I'm spirally back into worry mode again. 

Now my palms are blotchy, this has been on and off all day.  I'm in a bad state to be honest.

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 15, 2007, 01:14:42 pm
More likely you had the flu and gave it to her and now you are feeling guilty about cheating.  Hence the continued weight loss.  NO HIV in this situation.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 01:34:10 pm
HIV fear is horrible, and coping these next 3.5 weeks is going to be hell, i'm just praying i'll be ok, for my girlfriends sake mainly.  Do you guys know how long the window period is for syphilis?

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 15, 2007, 01:50:36 pm
10-90 days (the average is 21 days).
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 15, 2007, 01:54:16 pm
PK,

The window for syphilis for a conclusive negative result is three months, just like hiv and just like hiv, an infection will usually show up with testing before the three months is over.

A rash on the palms of the hands or soles of the feet is a secondary symptom of syphilis and if what you are seeing on your palms has anything to do with syphilis, it would be picked up now by the blood test.

You had protected intercourse. You were not at risk for hiv infection.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 01:58:29 pm
So the test i had at 7 weeks would of more than likely of picked up the syphillis if i'm now in the secondary stage, i'm just exploring all avenues here, maybe hep could be a cause? syphilis? hiv?

But if your saying i cant of caught hiv, surely the same goes for the others?

regards.

PK

P.S Sorry for being a pain
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on January 15, 2007, 02:04:34 pm
PK,

Condoms do not always protect against syphilis as it only takes skin to skin contact to be infected with syphilis. (your skin coming into contact with a syphilis lesion on another person's body) Hiv is NOT transmitted this easily.

And yes, if you're having secondary syphilis symptoms, the test would have picked it up.

Ann
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 15, 2007, 06:44:25 pm
Ann, and others

I'd just like to thank you guys for your advise regarding my issues, i'm feeling alot better about my self now, and i've even managed to eat 3 meals today, and a couple of cheeky slices of pizza for supper.

I've just gotta get to my 3 month test, and you guys have given me the energy and fight to help me get ther, i'm sure its going to be a roller coaster of a ride over the next 3 weeks, but its got to happen, so why fight it.

Fingers cross for negative 3 month test.

thanks again

regard

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 16, 2007, 02:36:04 pm
Tonight i've took a turn for the worse, had full blood works done, my neutrophils were 7.6, the normal range is 3-7.5,

I'm convinced i've got HIV, to much has happened to be it otherwise,

i dont know what to do anymore,



Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 16, 2007, 03:03:10 pm
You do not have HIV in relation to this incident PERIOD.  Your neutrophils are no indication of your status.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 16, 2007, 05:25:13 pm
I've just got it into my head that the condom must of failled, the sex worker must of used an oil based lube.

Maybe i'm crazy, but dont know

7 Week test is encouraging right?

sorry for being a pain, but i like the honesty on here

thanks

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 16, 2007, 05:28:27 pm
Yes it is encouraging. If the condom broke you would have KNOWN it.  The oil based lube wont break it down that fast AND you dont even know if it WAS oil based! 

You are negative.  Get on living.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 16, 2007, 05:37:34 pm
its just hard when i see symptoms all the time, is it likely to still have symptoms 9 weeks post exposure?

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 16, 2007, 05:53:18 pm
You can have symptoms of LOTS of things for LOTS of reasons.  You do NOT have HIV.  And are NOT experiencing ARS.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 16, 2007, 05:59:21 pm
ok ACinKC,

I'l take your advice on board, and try get through another day, i've asked for counselling via my GP, but he said thers no point, i've just sit out the next 3 weeks until the test. 

end of the day my fate is now written, so what happens i cant change it, it scares me to say that,

thanks

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 16, 2007, 06:50:43 pm
There is no need for you to make that kind of statement. You didn't have a risk and that is all there is to it.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 18, 2007, 11:58:27 am
Got tested today, at 9 weeks post

Both antigen and antibody came back negative, so i'm feeling alot more reasured now,

I'm confident because with the way i've been ill, i'm sure my body would be riddled with Antibody at this stage, so, life must go on.....

Thanks guys

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 20, 2007, 12:47:18 pm
Sorry to post again but.. got something on my mind,

yesterday i noticed to lumps on my lower back, i've gotta puch to feel them, but they move when i do,  are these lympth nodes? today they are sore what ever they are, plus below my ears are sore too, i was feeling around ther yesterday, i've all sorts of aches and pains in my neck and shoulder area,

like i've said i got tested on thursday and it was neg, i've been unwell now for 8 weeks, surely my test would of been positive by now if it was HIV, do you agree?

Also, my palms feel tingly at times, same with my feet, my palms have a red and white look about them, its like a rash, but comes and goes throughout the day.

Any ideas what this could be?

regards

P
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 20, 2007, 12:53:25 pm
PK, enough already. You never had a risk and if you would keep your fingers off your lymph nodes that wouldn't be sore. It time that you move on.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 20, 2007, 01:20:46 pm
Rapid, i know you believe i had no risk, but i just cant understand y i've been so ill, yesterday i went out for a meal, half way through i had to go spew my guts up, and my hands are really strange, i woke up last night with one of them numb, couldnt understand y, this weird red and white speckly rash is worryin, i believe that it cant be hiv, but could it be Hep B? i dont know,

regards

P.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 20, 2007, 01:37:25 pm
How about going to a doctor? Don't you think that would be the most logical thing to do?
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 20, 2007, 02:18:30 pm
The doctor is your best bet we CANT help you.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 24, 2007, 11:29:19 am
Is tingling hands and feet a sign of early hiv? is does that come late on?

Also my hands turned blue last night, all the veins came to the surface. I'm really worried i've got hiv,

please advise

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 24, 2007, 11:32:35 am
no. go see a dr.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 24, 2007, 11:36:17 am
i see my doctor and all he says is to wait 3 months for a hiv test,

so tingling feet and hands are not an early sign of hiv??

thanks for your support ACinKC, and the rest of the guys who have helped me,

my world is upside down at the mo,

how reliable is a 9 week Antigen and Antibody test?

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on January 24, 2007, 11:53:48 am
so tingling feet and hands are not an early sign of hiv??

NO.

how reliable is a 9 week Antigen and Antibody test?

It is a great indicator.  And should be followed up at 13 weeks for a conclusive result.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on January 24, 2007, 12:15:12 pm
Can symptoms of hiv last 9 weeks? thats the length of time i've been ill,

Andy, whats your opinion on a test at 9 weeks? antigen and antibody


regards

P
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on January 24, 2007, 12:29:24 pm
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 02, 2007, 01:48:49 pm
Hey guys,

Just thought would give you an update on my situation, I had a another test at 11 weeks post exposure, both the antibody and antigen came back negative. 

Currently i'm suffering from pains in my muscles, in the chest, and rib cage area, also down the side of my back towards my arm pit.  Would symptoms like this manifest themselves 11 weeks after exposure? Are they hiv related?

regards

PK
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on February 02, 2007, 01:56:06 pm
No.  we have told you MULTIPLE times and your tests are coming up negative and you still dont believe us.  I encourage you to take your own timeout to seek the help of a mental health professional but I think that a forced timeout is on the horizon.

Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 02, 2007, 02:08:43 pm
Believe it or not, i have actually begun to calm down over the past week, my mind is thinking rationally, but thers always the element of doubt.  You guys have been a gr8 support, and i really appreciate it. 

I work in a professional enviroment, and like to think i've got a decent head on my shoulders, but this has been hard to cope with.  My mother is aware of my situation, and she's been very understanding and supportive. 

Is the 3 month test conclusive then? The window period offers alot on confusion and debate.

regards

P
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: ACinKC on February 02, 2007, 02:33:47 pm
There is no confusion on here in regards to those giving advice.  3 months is conclusive.  So says one of us so says us all!  Its posters like you that bring up the 6 month window.  NOT US.  3 months is conclusive.

Do try and move on.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 13, 2007, 07:37:55 pm
hey guys,

well i've made it, had my 13 week test today, came back negative.  I'm going to move on with life now, i put this all behind me, thanks for all your support, really appreciated it

regards

P
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 22, 2007, 04:27:14 pm
I tought i could move on but i cant,

I'm wondering what the possibility of being coinfected with HIV and Hep C is during sexual activities??  Is coinfection more common from needle stick incidents??

The reason i ask is, i'm still suffering from severe vomitting each morning i wake up, and also still have no appetite. 

regards

P
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on February 22, 2007, 04:28:58 pm
PK you're done here you are negative conclusively. Any other concerns you have you need to take them up with your doctor.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 22, 2007, 04:29:47 pm
So coinfection is not an issue?? no way no how??

thanks for your support rapid
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on February 22, 2007, 04:31:16 pm
It would not have interfered with your test results. If you have an issue with HCV go take a test for it.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: PK22 on February 22, 2007, 04:32:47 pm
The GUM clinic said Hep C aint an issue, they just test hep B instead, which was clear.

I thought the window was 6months for hep C and HIV coinfection?
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: RapidRod on February 22, 2007, 04:35:00 pm
PK, your done. You don't have HIV. Your three months test is conclusive.
Title: Re: Should i be worried?
Post by: Ann on February 22, 2007, 04:38:01 pm
PK,

You did NOT have a risk for hep C, as you have been told. You have also been told, REPEATEDLY, that you did not have a risk for hiv infection either.

You are conclusively hiv negative. If you'd ever read the Welcome thread like you're supposed to, you will have read this:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned.

Ann