Looking for some logical advice for a possible irrational mind...

[dame]

Hey all.

I'm new to posting on this website, but not new to reading, and rereading forum postings over and over again. Ann and the other experts here are great.

I know that my situation may sound similar to others, but I'd like to express my concerns in my own words, just like every other anxious soul.

I am a bisexual male, and I am worried that my sexual behavior has been risky enough to catch HIV.

About a year and a half ago, I messed around with another guy. There was no actual penetration, but he did rub his genitals around my buttocks area, and around my anus. This was without a condom. He also tried to penetrate, but I did not let him...and I'm pretty sure he did not 'get in'. No oral sex was involved.I think it's very possible that his precum made its way into me. This was a one time event, and the guy said he did not have any STD's...but you never know. 2 days after the ecnouter I felt terrible...all of the common ARS symptoms. I was tested two weeks later after this encounter for everything...all negatives. I am aware of the HIV testing window. 2 weeks after that...I had a good week and a half bout with diarrhea, heavy fatigue...that is where my fear and obsession with HIV began. I lived with extreme guilt from there on after. I've read constantly about not relying on symptoms, but I'm sure many understand where I'm coming from.

Move ahead: About a year ago, I messed around with another guy. Again, there was no penetration, but heavy frottage. I engaged in this activity with this guy for probably 5 times. No oral was involved. He did place his genitals on my anus from time to time and rubbed around...no penetration. I know everyone has precum, so again, I began obsessing with the possibility of HIV transmission. One time, this guy did ejaculate, and his ejaculate was around my buttocks, and could have been around my anus.

I have not been tested since, but I plan to this October. I have been terrified for awhile now, and have a slight dependence on Xanax to calm me down. So without the sugar coating, I am a total mess. I feel that I am positive, but am too afraid to get tested...but i will.

So experts, I know I may be another redundant poster, but I would really like to know what you think my risks are from this behavior. What is the risk of precum/ ejaculate on or around the anus without penetration?( I include both scenarios b/c I am not sure about what really might have occurred.) I have not engaged in ANY form of sexual activity since these events, and I have actually pushed a woman that I truly care about away, because I feel like...well that's hard to explain in words.

Please write anything you might think of. I know that I need to get tested to matter what is said, but like many others, it helps to hear some perspectives during pre-testing phases. I apologize in advance if this post is disorderly. My mind is fixated with fear, and it affects everything I do.

Thanks,
D

[Matty the Damned]

Dame,

Having someone rub his knob over your butt-cheeks and bunghole is not a risk in terms of HIV. Nevertheless there are other STD's out there which are far more prevalent and transmissible than HIV so you might want to take the time to arrange an STD screen with your doctor.

In fact all sexually active people should have a full STD screen at least once a year. Twice is better. A full screen will include but is not limited to an HIV antibody test. Please note that I'm not recommending you have an HIV test because of the activity you refer to above, but just because it's part of a full screen and it's a good habit to get into.

So if you come back in here asking "why would Matty the Damned mention testing but say I had no risk" I'll smack you between the eyes with a spoon. Got it?

Even though you claim to have red our forums extensively I'm still going to suggest that you take the time to read our Welcome Thread and follow the links to our Lessons to learn more about how HIV is and is not transmitted.

The issue for you is more about fear and guilt relating to your sexual behaviour and identity than one of a real HIV risk. I think you should speak to a counsellor about those issues.

Cheers,

MtD

[dame]

Thanks Matty. I will continue to read. I guess I just am uneducated about HIV because I don't understand why my activity is not a risk. If precum and ejaculate creep inside through a crevice of some sort...why not? Thanks again...I'll try to get some sleep( doubtful) and see if anyone has anything else to say in the morning.


D

[Matty the Damned]

It's cool D.

HIV is transmitted inside the body, ie in the vagina (at the top near the cervix) or in the rectum where the virus is likely to find the specific cells it needs to mount a successful infection.

These sorts of cells are just not found on the buttocks or the outer surface of the anus. And before you ask, yes you would be aware if this crafty devil had managed to slip his schlong up your chute so the fact you didn't notice anything means he didn't.

In future when fooling around with other boys it might be wise if make a lad cover up before he puts his peeny anywhere near your pucker. More for peace of mind than anything else.

MtD

[dame]

Just for the sake of other opinion: Ann and Andy, what do you think? When I get my test is there even a possibility of HIV based on what I have written?

[Andy Velez]

Dame, I'd say the only crevices into which pre-cum and anything else have crept are in your mind. There's a world of difference in the experience of having a penis playing around your anus and actually penetrating it. Especially for someone who hasn't had the experience of being penetrated I would say you would have known if you'd been penetrated.

Getting tested is still a good idea and I'll tell you why. We recommend that anyone who's sexually active get a full STD panel done regularly which means at least annually.

And as a "just in case," I suggest you keep condoms handy when you are fooling around with another guy or with anyone for that matter. Matters can sometimes suddenly and surprisingly move towards intercourse and you want to make sure that you're prepared for that possible eventuality.

I do expect you are going to test negative given the activities you have described.

[dame]

Thanks Andy,

Your words help me feel a little better, but I do realize that I will not put my fears to rest until I've been tested. I just am fearful of the sequence of events that happened. Within 2 days of the first exposure, I felt terrrible. And then 2 weeks after being tested (too early) a long 2 weeks of diarreah. It's just worrisome to me, but I already know that I've been worrying myself sick for years. Thanks though.

D

[Ann]

Dame,

You didn't have a risk.

Hiv symptoms, if they show up at all, don't start as quickly as your problems did. Whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with hiv, as you didn't have a risk.

Go see your doctor about your diarrhea - it could be caused by all sorts of different things but we cannot diagnose you here.

We CAN, however, tell you that you had no risk. None. Nada.

Ann

[dame]

Thanks Ann,

I'll take your advice and still get tested. I just feel like pressure from his penis on my anus, and the precum/cum exposure, along with my symptoms days and weeks after, was enough...though all of you seems to agree that i was not. I'm not in the right mindset to engage in any sexual activity for a long time, but if you could, please answer one more thing. If my exposure wasn't a risk, would there be a risk if someone fully ejaculated ON the outside area or around the anus? What's the difference if there is one? I apologize again...I'm just trying to understand.


Thanks,
D

[Andy Velez]

A partner ejaculating on the outside of the anus is very different from doing it during penetration. The inside job means if the partner is infected that HIV is in a responsive, welcoming setting which can include broken blood vessels due to pressure and tearing during penetration.

Outside the anus and even on the anus is totally different. There's no reason to believe the skin there wouldn't in the ordinary course of things still be intact. And as long as it's intact there's no risk of transmission.

As far as in the general buttock area or for that matter elsewhere on your skin there's no need for concern. Unbroken skin serves as a natural barrier to transmission. Once HIV hits the air it quickly begins to degrade and not be a viable threat.

[dame]

Thanks Andy. THis will be my last post. So as far as you're concerned, the only chance (unless I'm incredibly susceptible) that I could've caught HIV from these activities would be if there was actual, full penetration into the anus WITH ejaculation? Or in easier terms, no thrusts inside= no hiv? Thank you for all that you guys do...I'm having a better day for a change by reading your responses. Hopefully they will echo when I do get tested soon.

-D

[Ann]

dame,

You're not going to be "incredibly susceptible" and be the only person in the world to be infected via frottage.

And yes, the true risk is during unprotected anal (or vaginal) intercourse. Make sure you are (or your partner is) wearing a condom for these activities and you'll be just fine where hiv is concerned.

Really.

Ann

[dame]

I'm not sure what to with my life anymore. I know the experts here have read my posts, and my fear that intense frottage with ejaculation has caused HIV transmission. I haven't been able to get tested, and I don't know if I can. I keep thinking about "what if". I really do trust your judgment, but I'm sure no one can be 100% correct all the time.

I'm not sure what to do. My anxiety has gotten me into a really rotten point. Today I considered taking my life, because I don't know how I'll get tested. I don't know what I'd say to my family to help get through everything (If I was positive.) I don't feel like there is a way out.

My symptoms 2 years ago are the most worrisome to me. After a one night exposure (no sex, penis to anus frottage), I became very ill within the day or so. Fatigue, diarreaha etc. I was tested about 2 weeks later...too early for anything.

I can't get over this.

I'm not sure what to do. I feel alone and powerless. I'm not sure if I can take things day by day anymore.

I know I said i wouldn't post anymore...but I just needed somewhere to write my thoughts down. Please feel free to reply.

Dame

[Matty the Damned]

Don't worry Dame, we certainly feel free to reply.

Babe, I really think it's time you spoke to a mental health professional about your unfounded fears surrounding HIV. You owe it to yourself. You deserve better than what you have now.

Please understand that we are not a substitute for professional counselors and that you will not be permitted to use this forum to wring your hands and post obsessively. Our Moderators have remedies to assist you in finding the help that you need and they will use them.

You should also take the time to read our Welcome Thread and familiarise yourself with our posting guidelines.

MtD

[Ann]

dame,

The symptoms you experienced two years ago where you became ill within a day had nothing to do with hiv. Why? Because it takes more like two weeks for symptoms to turn up, if they do at all. You're adding two and two and coming up with fifteen.

Not testing will not change your status. If you do happen to be hiv positive, you're setting yourself up for a poor prognosis the longer you leave it to test. If you're hiv negative, which is the most likely case, then you're spending your life indulging yourself in a "poor me" scenario that has no basis in fact.

Stop worrying about your family - that's just a handy excuse. This isn't about your family, it's about YOU and your health. It's time for you to act like the adult you are and go get tested to put an end to this. Go collect your negative result and move on with your life.

And if gathering the balls to tests includes seeing a counselor, then that's what you need to do. We can't force you to do anything, but as you've been told you won't be allowed to use this forum to wring your hands over your lack of spine where testing is concerned.

Go collect that negative result we're all expecting.

Ann