POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: lydgate on January 26, 2007, 03:38:58 am
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Apologies if the thread title is offensive. I'm typing while inhibitions are still low.
So: tonight I get invited to full-scale Iowan "orgy."
I go. I'm prepared with THREE kinds of condoms: latex, polyurethane, and femidoms (female condoms).
About 20 people, most of them barely out of their teens, most of them meth-addled. There was also coke.
To make a long story short, many of these guys wanted to sit on my hardon. I say I'm poz and reach for my condom, and they say, "NO, just fuck me!" This happened, er, many times. I was considered an idiot for putting on my trusty Avanti Durex.
This may be old news to many of you. In theory, it's old news to me too.
But it was not nice, and not fun, being there. Really cute bottom frat boys notwithstanding. Oh SO cute.
If it had been an all-poz bb party that's fine then (I think).
I simply don't know how to carry out a "safer sex" message to this crowd. I'm lost, they have no ears to hear me.
Jay
(gin-sodden but not flammable yet)
Edited to add: No comments needed, really; say-la-vee.
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Believe it or not I have heard of clubs where guys (mostly young ones) want to become infected. I have a guy here in his early thirtys that has been hitting on me big time. I told him my status but he doesnt care and wants to bareback anyhow. Anyone heard of these club?
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What did you expect? You're at a homosexual orgy with a bunch of drugged out twinks who are still basically adolescents. Sexual responsibility is a bit much to expect, don't you think?
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Meth and coke. Nuff said. (Which I posted and then edited.) Now I don't know how many would have noticed, but if you had simply and pointedly taken your hard-on and left, that might have said more? Because as long as they are getting 'it,' they are going to show up. The party only ends when the bright lights come on and the voices get really loud and clear. Win
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Not a teachable moment. Not your responsibility to preach, just to wear your condom. I would've walked 'cause of the drugs.
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frustrating though, hey Jay.
You get yourself all prepared for slipping on the rubber, and then they say, nah, don't worry about, both tempting and a turn-off at the one time.
You know what really pisses me off. if your positive, it racks ya brain and your conscience. If ya don't know your status, you don't care or only see it as what can I catch from them, not what can I give.
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Wow,
That is sad. And these are people just beginning to live. I guess that is the problem. They feel invincible, desired, wanted. Then there is the drugs. Wow, I didn't know this could happen in Iowa. But I guess boys are doin' more than the sheep in the corn.
rob
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This may be old news to many of you. In theory, it's old news to me too.
Hi Jay ... Yup, sad stuff for those kids. For all you know, that party could have been an all-poz bb party. sounds like a free-for-all, as in, "nobody cares about status here dude!" i remember going to 1 sex party in Manhattan and going down on a guy (no disclosure to be found of course) and then we had an audience. >:( LOL Hello - I should've known (duh!) but it was a turn off in my book because I'm not an exhibitionist but I think he was an exhibitionist because he didn't suggest we do it in seclusion. That probably would've been better (for me). Oh well, no more parties for this naive prissy boy LOL :D
When I was a stupid denialist you'd be shocked at how many guys never said one word or asked one question about status. Maybe they were denialists too, who knows. And I'm talking as recently as 2003. Hey, you're talking as recently as 2007! What on earth can we do :'( :'(
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Lordy, my life is boring...
That said...good for you for wearing the condom.
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Lordy, my life is boring...
That said...good for you for wearing the condom.
"all that glitters is not gold"
shit can glitter.
3 cheers for jay.
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Wow can you imagine the funding increase you could have caused at the local ASO... ;)
That would have at least helped 2 potential case workers in finding work... ;)
I hope your selfishness was worth it!!! ;)
On to a serious note though..... How many condoms did you need? Sounds like you were prepared for war!
Ok... no really serious though, it is sad and unfortunately some will probably be joining us here in a short time. Like the others have said this was probably one of the worst scenarios to get the message across, but at least you tried. A+ for effort.
Thomas
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This was a very important topic to address.
I was one of those guys only a couple of years ago and I think it behooves us as mentors of society, which I would argue as human beings we all are to some degree or another, to find a way to reach these young men before they become infected.
1. “Sexual responsibility is a bit much to expect, don't you think?”
No, I don't.
2. “Meth and coke. Nuff said.”
Maybe it isn't?
3. “Not a teachable moment.”
Even an imbecile can be taught at the most inappropriate times.
I can understand the reluctance to discuss anything with someone in an altered state of conciousness. Hell, I've pooh-poohed guys about their stance on the need for condoms and/or sober sex while I was tweaked to the rafters even. But I also know from seeing others and also myself being on both sides of party/sex fence that it is possible to get through. Even at the most dire times. If nothing else, we can arm them with the knowledge that PEP is out there if they do indeed sober up quickly enough.
Perhaps even guerilla tactics are necessary but it can be done!
I applaud you for your conviction in this situation. It shows great character.
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The point, sort of, of my original post: I ain't no saint, I wanted to get my rocks off too. My hardon and I could have walked away but I/we didn't. And I have a liberal (libertarian?) attitude to drugs; as an adult, what you put in your body is your business not mine. And I've been to such gatherings before -- usually no status asked, none declared. But if a guy DID say he was poz, then everyone either stayed away from him, pretty much, or condoms were immediately put on.
I wasn't out to preach. I wasn't in my best "Use a Condom Always" mode (it was an orgy, not a meeting at the local LGBT group). What surprised me was that even after I declared my status, these guys (three of them anyway) didn't seem to care. (When I asked whether they they were poz too, they all said no; I have no reason to believe they were lying, I'm pretty sure they were negative or thought they were.) That was new to me. I thought I'd been around the block, too many times in fact. But that just seems crazy to me (cuz it is). Never too old to discover a new aspect of one's naivete.
Thanks for all your responses.
Jay
Edited to add: Funny how I find it no problem at all to disclose in this kind of situation; the moment I "like" a guy, want to date him, disclosure becomes really really difficult. Undertandable I suppose, but odd.
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... but did you piss on anyone?
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... but did you piss on anyone?
Do you think I'm the kind of guy to piss and tell? ;)
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yes
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Maybe a lot of the guys were also poz. I mean, if they aren't yet, they probably will be with that sort of behavior. I'm sure that's how a lot of us ended up here (BB'ing at orgy parties & being drugged up). You can only do your best to not contribute to infecting them, which you did.
David
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Funny how I find it no problem at all to disclose in this kind of situation; the moment I "like" a guy, want to date him, disclosure becomes really really difficult. Undertandable I suppose, but odd.
eh, a little odd but worth further analysis. 3 cheers for recognizing patterns about yourself
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Meth+ gay orgy= did you expect anything less?
That is really craptacular though... but really... are you really gonna care that some meth-addled twinks thought you were stupid for protecting them? You're smarter than that.
And yes, they will eventually have to suffer some sort of consequence for their actions... they're not impervious, no matter much they feel like they are.
Oh... and "Full-Scale Iowan Orgy" would be an awesome, awesome band name.
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who would have thunk it. iowa on a thursday night? what has become of our country
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All the repressed republican gay boys eh-jake?
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All the repressed republican gay boys eh-jake?
GOP now stands for Giving Out Penis.
Or something. I'm drinking mimosas.
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Grand Ol' Pervs
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Do you think I'm the kind of guy to piss and tell? ;)
(http://www.infidelguy.com/members/pr126/pervert.jpg)
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Grand Ol' Pervs
On the sly, of course.
Why have I never been invited to a full-scale Iowan orgy? I feel left out.
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On the sly, of course.
Why have I never been invited to a full-scale Iowan orgy? I feel left out.
Maybe cause your always hosting them in Richmond!
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Maybe cause your always hosting them in Richmond!
Actually... I've never been invited to any orgy ever.
I feel left out. :'( Le sigh.
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i'm quite sure this wasn't the boys first time to the rodeo (orgy). As adults we have to take the responsibility to care for ourselves, no one else will. so if that includes putting on a condom. 2 people receive the protection even if one of the individuals didn't asked to be protected. you save yourself from another strain or drug resisetence virus or some other STD or maybe even a law suit from infecting an individual that during the momentary lapse of reason they don't care to protect their own lives.
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Well, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do not wish to acknowledge
Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of an orgy in your community...
maybe you should have started a boys band?
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i fly for free...hit me up w/ the next party....lol
seriously though....therez just something bout bb sex that really turns some on. itz kinda like a sickness. u could done a little preaching but it wouldnt have made any difference. have u ever checked out bareback.com? i rest my case.
i think those 'freedom parties' r just a myth.
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I'll be told I'm wrong, I'm used to it, but I think this behavior was truly awful! There are HUGE consequences to drugs; it's not just your body, but it's a whole community! I've come to the conclusion that we have to say to other gay guys "NO DRUGS"!! None, zero. It is irresponsible not to say so, and loudly. I know it's easier to joke about it. It hurts everybody. I'm harmed by it as much as everybody at the "party" (sic). That's all i'm going to say because i'm so angry reading your post!
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That's it..where is my orgy?
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YOU RANG?
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I'll be told I'm wrong, I'm used to it, but I think this behavior was truly awful! There are HUGE consequences to drugs; it's not just your body, but it's a whole community! I've come to the conclusion that we have to say to other gay guys "NO DRUGS"!! None, zero. It is irresponsible not to say so, and loudly. I know it's easier to joke about it. It hurts everybody. I'm harmed by it as much as everybody at the "party" (sic). That's all i'm going to say because i'm so angry reading your post!
Before I respond, I would just like to say that I loathe meth and have a major problem with people who do it to excess. I really don't do drugs that much anymore... and when I do, it's something classy like cocaine.
I really dislike this prohibitionist mindset... this way of thinking could be extrapolated to a whole bunch of other behaviors that everyone engages in. It's just because drugs are generally socially unacceptable is it OK to say things like this.
People are gonna put drugs into their bodies... I did it. And it's easy to say "the community is hurt" by it... but where's the evidence? I'm willing to bet those tweakers at the orgy didn't have kids or anyone whose livelihood depended on them... People who do drugs to excess are putting one person and once person only... themselves. Never did the gay community said "ouch" along with me when I shoved a big ol' smack needle in my arm.
Yeah, I caught HIV because of my teensy little drinking problem. Whose problems are they? Mine. Hypothetically speaking, if I didn't know my status, and some drugged up ass caught HIV from me... then whose problem would it be? His.
But "no drugs" is something that will never, ever work. It's easy to say... but really hard to implement. I, for one, have no intention of following that policy... and I speak as someone's who's had drug problems (note the plural, please), gotten my shit back together, and still manage to do coke every three months or so with no real harm done to myself or others.
If those kids wanna do meth and have unprotected sex... bra-effin-vo. Let 'em. It's their right to put whatever they want to in their bodies... and that includes methamphetamine and strange dick. And please don't tell me it's not their right because it's "against the law." How many of us in the US broke sodomy laws before they were repealed while still claiming that buttsex was an inalienable right?
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fuck em.. literally... bareback or not. If they don't get it from you, they'll get it from somebody else... at least you got yerself a nice piece of ass.
Invite me to an orgy and I doubt I'd disclose, today anyways.
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Invite me to an orgy and I doubt I'd disclose, today anyways.
You have to ask yourself... "these people are at an orgy, do they really care?"
I think one could be forgiven for not disclosing... hell, I probably wouldn't.
But now I feel sad that I've never been to one.
I'm not even kidding.
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Well, then I invite you to Bailey's Orgiastic Splender™, the orgy event of the queer.
It'll be a hoot.
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Benj, come to Iowa and I'll "organize" a Full-Scale Iowan Orgy for you. You can be the centerpiece (cuz I know you'd love that, you cutie with a narcissistic straeak ;)). And since your quote line seems to indicate you're into straight men ??? plenty of closet frat boys with girlfriends to choose from.
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God, old ways die hard.
Upon seeing this subject line, my instinct was to immediately type in:
Where are you? Got any pics you could trade? Into? Host or travel?
Days gone by...
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Well, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do now wish to acknowledge
Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of an orgy in your community...
maybe you should have started a boys band?
Ademas, your post, which kinda reads like blank verse, has me totally confused. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Also, orgy=disaster?
Finally, to clarify once more: I was NOT surprised by the drugs. I WAS expecting there to be plenty of unsafe sex. I was NOT going to handout condoms to unwilling listeners. The ONLY thing I WAS surprised by was guys who, supposedly negative, didn't care about a poz dick inside their innards. The end.
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That post flew right by me also. Huh??
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God, old ways die hard.
Upon seeing this subject line, my instinct was to immediately type in:
Where are you? Got any pics you could trade? Into? Host or travel?
Days gone by...
Sounds like your hormones are acting up....LOL ;D :D :P
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Benj, come to Iowa and I'll "organize" a Full-Scale Iowan Orgy for you. You can be the centerpiece (cuz I know you'd love that, you cutie with a narcissistic straeak ;)). And since your quote line seems to indicate you're into straight men ??? plenty of closet frat boys with girlfriends to choose from.
The quote comes from a MadTV thing that Tim had posted earlier. I found it hilarious and thought it best to incorporate it into my life somehow.
And when my new band, Full-Scale Iowan Orgy, comes to Des Moines... come get me... and I'll take you up on your offer.
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The ONLY thing I WAS surprised by was guys who, supposedly negative, didn't care about a poz dick inside their innards. The end.
As a member of the generation who, as a whole, thinks this way... personally I didn't when even I was negative... I can explain it.
It's summed up by, "What's the big deal? You take a pill and you're OK."
No joke.
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But did the 'poz dick' even register? Not from what I have heard (but not experience first hand, so this is hearsay). Think of drunks at a bar, trying to offer them something. Do they act as though they have registered what you have offered or said? Usually, in my experience, no. Or, tweaked already, offer them some more drugs. Does that register? Unlikely unless they are coming down and feeling the need. So I guess, hours later, I couldn't assume that much as you were trying to tell them what you had, what they could get if you weren't wearing a condom, etc., is got through. And if it didn't in fact get through, we can't draw conclusions about negative guys wanting or having no problems with hiv. Win
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wow. I obviously don't do drugs.
Orgy or no orgy, I couldn't sleep at night if I barebacked into anyone who believes they're negative (whether actually true or not), no matter what their state of mind.
Benj, there really isn't much about cocaine that's 'classy'. True enough, you doing drugs alone hurts no one. Although you do help keep a dealer in business, and not all his 'clients' are single gay men. As long as you , or your male friends, or girl friends have no intention of ever bearing a child, and attempting to raise that child in a world with drug addicted parent(s), no problem. It's not only cute young gay men who use drugs. It's a real problem, and causes tremendous problems in our society. Car accidents while under the influence, burglaries/robberies to support such habits, shooting/stabbings over bad drug deals, cops killed by dealers running from them/arresting them. Innocent bystanders caught in that crossfire. Orphaned children because their parents OD'd. There is absolutely nothing glamorous about drugs. I'm sorry you see them that way.
Lydgate, I'm not sure from the posts whether you put the condoms on or didn't, so I"ll refrain from a comment on that.
Cheers!!
Paul
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wow. I obviously don't do drugs.
Orgy or no orgy, I couldn't sleep at night if I barebacked into anyone who believes they're negative (whether actually true or not), no matter what their state of mind.
Benj, there really isn't much about cocaine that's 'classy'. True enough, you doing drugs alone hurts no one. Although you do help keep a dealer in business, and not all his 'clients' are single gay men. As long as you , or your male friends, or girl friends have no intention of ever bearing a child, and attempting to raise that child in a world with drug addicted parent(s), no problem. It's not only cute young gay men who use drugs. It's a real problem, and causes tremendous problems in our society. Car accidents while under the influence, burglaries/robberies to support such habits, shooting/stabbings over bad drug deals, cops killed by dealers running from them/arresting them. Innocent bystanders caught in that crossfire. Orphaned children because their parents OD'd. There is absolutely nothing glamorous about drugs. I'm sorry you see them that way.
Lydgate, I'm not sure from the posts whether you put the condoms on or didn't, so I"ll refrain from a comment on that.
Cheers!!
Paul
But driving a Mercedes is OK? Is that classy?
Keeping the United States beholden to Middle Eastern oil interests is OK?
Polluting the air is OK?
Contributing massively to global warming is OK?
Using and enjoying an automobile, which has been responsible for more deaths and maiming than drugs ever will is OK?
Well, shit the bed, you've proved exactly my point about "social acceptability."
If I choose to ironically think that coke is classy as opposed to meth... I can. And I can state it. That's my opinion... and I don't ask anyone else to share it. It's not like I don't know cocaine is a drug which shouldn't be taken lightly... I used to be addicted to it for Chrissake.
But please don't tell me that I'm "hurting someone" when I choose to buy a gram right before you get in your car and throw countless cubic feet of noxious fumes into the air to go to work or whatever.
It's all about whose bull is being gored. That's my point. No one will ever talk shit about people who drive cars they way they do drug users... even though... at the end of the day... the automobile will end up being responsible for more misery, more damage, and more horror than all the coke users around the world.
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legalize drugs and tax em.
Seems like it would solve alot of problems rather than create them to me.
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Ademas, your post, which kinda reads like blank verse, has me totally confused. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Also, orgy=disaster?
Finally, to clarify once more: I was NOT surprised by the drugs. I WAS expecting there to be plenty of unsafe sex. I was NOT going to handout condoms to unwilling listeners. The ONLY thing I WAS surprised by was guys who, supposedly negative, didn't care about a poz dick inside their innards. The end.
ha...sorry lydgate...
it's lyrics from "The Music Man"...
all the talk about Iowa, I suppose.
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legalize drugs and tax em.
Seems like it would solve alot of problems rather than create them to me.
I agree. I can't help but think that a lot of these social problems associated with drug use are because of drugs' current legal status.
I mean, look at Prohibition. It created more problems than it solved.
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If I were still in NYC and if I was still participating in or at least following research studies, what I would be curious about (curious enough to have logged on to get this down before I lost it) is has anyone done a study or studies in which gay men are separated between those who state themselves to fuck (active) and those who state themselves to be fucked (nice phrase, no? passive) in which the researchers (or those reading and posting here) ask questions inside and outside of the bedroom? Is there a corelation between those who fuck in the bedroom and how they perceive life, how they approach life (work, play, finance, education, etc.) and is there a corelation with those who get fucked in the bedroom and they how perceive life, how they approach life and, if so, can we start to draw conclusions such as the passive gay man perceives life in and out of the bedroom as a place where he is at least partially controled by, at the whim of, others; the reverse being true, or not, for active gay men? Or do gay men act differently outside of the bedroom from how they may perceive themselves inside the bedroom? Are gay men more or less different or similar, depending upon totally other indications than sexual preference in position? And, moving back to where this started, is there something going on- leaving out the drugs for this discussion- in the minds of passive/fuck seeking gay men that would lead them to make decisions, whether it be this penis or another one, someone with or without hiv, because he approaches this as you have to do what you have to do unlike, if true, how the minds of active/fucking gay men make their decisions?
Finally, if anything can be glimpsed in such a research study or by postings somewhere in the forums, does this clue those of us concerned about new infections in how we might design harm reduction efforts, sorting, to use the new word, gay men who fuck and gay men who get fucked differently. Win
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all geeked up and nowhere to go eh?
>light another cigerette we's going to IOWAy
>>their house is made of wood, in a chicken turkey piggy neiborhood
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Benj, there really isn't much about cocaine that's 'classy'. True enough, you doing drugs alone hurts no one. Although you do help keep a dealer in business, and not all his 'clients' are single gay men. As long as you , or your male friends, or girl friends have no intention of ever bearing a child, and attempting to raise that child in a world with drug addicted parent(s), no problem. It's not only cute young gay men who use drugs. It's a real problem, and causes tremendous problems in our society. Car accidents while under the influence, burglaries/robberies to support such habits, shooting/stabbings over bad drug deals, cops killed by dealers running from them/arresting them. Innocent bystanders caught in that crossfire. Orphaned children because their parents OD'd. There is absolutely nothing glamorous about drugs. I'm sorry you see them that way.
Spare me, Mary. That computer you're pecking away on supports Communists in China... probably some child labor thrown in for good measure.
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Spare me, Mary. That computer you're pecking away on supports Communists in China... probably some child labor thrown in for good measure.
Did you see what I wrote in response?
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Did you see what I wrote in response?
Yes, but you're only 24 so all of your posts are invalid.
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I need my Old Navy shirts at 6.99 on sale thanks to those little fuckers.
Besides, I don't want to throw hardworking children out of work. I do this out of the kindness of my heart because I truly care. Children need jobs too!
Support the World Economy; Help a child stay employed.
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Yes, but you're only 24 so all of your posts are invalid.
See, I was going to say the same thing about you... but was going to say, "you wish you were only 24" instead.
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I need my Old Navy shirts at 6.99 on sale thanks to those little fuckers.
Besides, I don't want to throw hardworking children out of work. I do this out of the kindness of my heart because I truly care. Children need jobs too!
Support the World Economy; Help a child stay employed.
At my job, we answer for this company that puts on shows and stuff for kids...
A lot of times, the merch the parents bought for their little darlings breaks before they get in the car to go home... then they call us to bitch about it.
I always am filled with the desire to tell them, "Look lady, that toy probably lasted longer than the Indonesian waif who made it!"
But I don't. Why I refrain from that is beyond me. It probably has something to do with sobriety.
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Just to throw in that I also don't really buy into that whole "too tweaked to know what they are doing" business when it comes to meth sex (or other forms of, um...chemically enhanced sex). The guys that tweak and fuck know before they blast off in advance that the meth or whatever is going to put them into that free-for-all mindset. They are counting on it...and hoping everyone else present is ready to get into the same head space.
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um... I never plan to drive drunk.
I do know when i go to a bar i can have a tendency to overinduldge, but I really don't think I'm going to go out and get plastered and then drive.
I haven't run over anyone yet, but it doesn't mean i won't.
I understand the risks, but somehow it doesn't seem to change the behavior either.
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See, I was going to say the same thing about you... but was going to say, "you wish you were only 24" instead.
But you would be incorrect. I wish I was 31.
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Wow, lyd, can't say I can relate to how you feel cause I have never been to an orgy. I have a hard time sharing.. ;) But I can understand your frustration about trying to be safe and the young bucks just wanted your nice hard on. A few months ago, a man was interested in me, actually found my ad on poz.com and had no problem wanting to raw dog me. His words were I don't like to use condoms, I like the natural feeling and the feeling of playing russian roulette, wtf!!!!! At first, I was like hey that's on you but after some consideration, I declined because I don't know what this dude has, ya know. And if he was willing to be so free with me, who's to say he wasn't with someone else. You gotta look out for you. So did you get some? Protected of course but did ya? ;D
As far as being drugged induced, hey to each their own. I really don't consider coke as being classy either. Because of using coke back in the day, I now have a hole in the cartiledge of my nose. And the only thing I really liked about it was the drain and the numbness in my throat. Plus I have had some friends get taken out from it's use, either by overindulging or receiving a hot shot. Although no drug is really good for you, I have no complaints smoking weed. Yes, I'm giving my money to the weed guy but I can actually see where my money is going. I'm not trying to rob anyone or sell anything out of my house. If anything, I'm eating and zoning into my PS2 playing Scarface.
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But you would be incorrect. I wish I was 31.
Damn. Touche, sir. Touche.
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Queen, can I be stupid and ask what is a ''hot shot''? Is that like a bad injection of cocaine or something?
(Color me innocent...)
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Queen, can I be stupid and ask what is a ''hot shot''? Is that like a bad injection of cocaine or something?
(Color me innocent...)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XqALcX6aios
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So a Hot Shot is subjection to some God Awful 70's dance music?
Death by Disco?
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Queen, can I be stupid and ask what is a ''hot shot''? Is that like a bad injection of cocaine or something?
(Color me innocent...)
Yes, Thunter, my love. Before someone tries to correct me, in my neck of the woods, we call anything a hot shot that has been tampered with.
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So a Hot Shot is subjection to some God Awful 70's dance music?
Death by Disco?
I don't know about that.
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So a Hot Shot is subjection to some God Awful 70's dance music?
Death by Disco?
Karen's fierce... and I'll have you know that track was pressed on pink vinyl, n00b
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I don't know about that.
I was basing that on the link philly sent. I figured the Hot Shot was what you were saying it was.
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Ack! There's that #$%$#b crap again! What is a n00b?
Crap isn't always brown.
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I've never heard this "hot shot" phrase and I used to be a human pharmacy
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THE WHOLE DRUG SCENE IS INSANITY DOING IT'S FINEST WORK....I LOST A FRIEND LAST YEAR DUE TO A METH OVERDOSE....THE OBITUARY CALLED IT A HEART ATTACK....THE REST OF US KNEW BETTER. HIS WAKE WAS BILLED AS "THE TWEAKERS FUNERAL"....THIS GUY GRADUATED FROM YALE AS AN ARCHITECT WITH GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND TALENT....HE HAD RISEN TO THE TOP IN DETROIT SOCIAL CIRCLES...THOUGHT HE WAS INVINCABLE....NOW HIS PARTNER IS SITTING IN A $600,000 HOUSE THAT HAS BEEN FORECLOSED....CAN'T AFFORD TO TURN UP THE HEAT PAST 62 DEGREES.....HOPING SOMEONE WILL COME ALONG AND BUY THE HOUSE....AND IF THEY DO HE JUST MIGHT WALK AWAY WITH $20,000 TO PUT DOWN ON SOMETHING ELSE. THE HOUSING MARKET IN DETROIT IS THE WORST IN THE NATION SO A SALE DOES NOT LOOK LIKELY. SO TO EVEN THINK THAT SOMEHOW, SOME WAY, DRUG USE IS OKAY IF YOU DON'T HAVE KIDS, DON'T HAVE A PARTNER, NO FRIENDS, NO FAMILY.....WE ALL HAVE SOMEONE WHO WANTS US TO BE HERE....WHO NEEDS US IN SOME WAY. TO DESTROY OURSELVES IN THIS WAY IS A PURELY SELFISH ACT BORN FROM UTTER STUPIDITY....I CAN ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE I HAVE "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT"....I WAS ONE OF THE TWEAKERS AT MY FRIENDS FUNERAL. THANK GOD I CAN USE THE TERM "WAS" INSTEAD OF "AM"......I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW I ARRIVED AT THAT "I DON'T CARE, JUST FUCK ME" MINDSET.....BUT IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE....AND IT IS HAPPENING MORE AND MORE.....I AM SEEING A BASIC SHIFT IN THE HUMAN RACE AWAY FROM SELF PRESERVATION AND SELF-LOVE.....HOW DO WE REVERSE THIS TREND??
BE WELL....
CRAIG
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so when andd were is the orgy :P I will love to have one ;)
J.
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i stopped drugs in the 90s but then i met someone who was a little into drugs in 2000 so i did a little with him over the course of 3 years and it was weekends mostly and nothing too heavy ... anyway today i think about the effects drugs can have on our cellular health
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uh... caps lock?
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Dingoboi, How can you say fuck'em. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. Then you cry on your blogs about the evil meds, and how they don't work, when you're swigging them down with booze. I know you never claimed to be an example, but it pains me to have anyone think that you represent what being gay is remotely about. Sorry dude, but it seems like you are intent on "giving AIDS back to the monkeys."
rob
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so when andd were is the orgy :P I will love to have one ;)
J.
Meth and Man Ass on a Sunday Morning! (Oh, wait...that's the other thread, right?)
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fuck em.. literally... bareback or not. If they don't get it from you, they'll get it from somebody else... at least you got yerself a nice piece of ass.
I'm all for personal responsibility re both sex and drugs, but that's a piss poor excuse for potentially passing HIV to someone.
And, the same for drink driving, Bailey. Take some personal responsibility, consider the consequences, and take a taxi.
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This thread is absolute proof that HIV, both infection and risk of infection, is the most complex viral pathogen to hit mankind so far. So much blame game for all of us to share. I did it, he/she did it, the drugs made me do it, I was drunk and couldn't help myself, I didn't think that needle would do this to me, my husband/wife was/is a whore and lied to me. Enough. It is what it is. I personally think that if you have the motivation to post on aidsmeds.com these thoughts, you are already a front line soldier in this HIV war. Do we find ourselves occasionally in situations that test our resolve and/or moral compass? Some of us do indeed. We are HIV positive, but we are still human and subject to all its frailties. Our strength comes from our knowledge, our ability to process that knowledge, and in our ability to share that knowledge when we can. And those times when we fail to share our wisdom, the foresight to to know that when in the future we find ourselves in another situation where our wisdom can help, we do better. And maybe save someone from the reality that we are dealing with. It's all we can do. And I think most of us do it well.
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I know you never claimed to be an example, but it pains me to have anyone think that you represent what being gay is remotely about.
rob
I never knew that he, or anyone else, was supposed to represent being gay to other people.
I really have this problem with forcing people to have some sort of social responsibility that they didn't ask for.
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I'm sorry, I just have a problem with people openly advocating intentionally infecting other people with HIV.
Bailey's Words of wisdom:
"Fuck em.. literally... bareback or not. If they don't get it from you, they'll get it from somebody else... at least you got yerself a nice piece of ass."
I am not even pretending that Bailey will give a rat's ass about any form of social responsibilty. The sad reality is that people will read his post and will equate being gay with his twisted mentality. With his posts he is making a social statement as I am with mine.
rob
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Where is Eldon when we need him?
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I agree with Texasguy 100%... very well said indeed!
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Madness and Mayhem
..... Its everywhere.
What's a fag to do?
Pop that sucker on and go to it...
or get the fuck out....make a choice!
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Hey! I live in iOwa. I didnt get the memo???
Seriously, hiv is this Africa thing to most. You dont hear bout it much outside this forum cause I guess in the U.S. its not a problem? Thats how the media acts. Its a problem in Africa, not here.
And if you get it, so what (they think). Just down a couple pills, available to ANYONE in the US (so they say), and you're good to go. Thats it in a nutshell. And thats how I use to think too, back in the 1990's. Pills for everything!
Looking back, I now put some blame on the HBO Queer As Folk show. All the hiv+ guys went about their daily life, looked great, and never talked about meds, cost or side effects. Always good to go. I regret getting hooked on that show. I did warp my thinking, till reality set in, in Sept 2005.
Well, enough on that...
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Very well said TexasGuy! When is the book coming out? :)
Be Well....
Craig
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As always, it seems it is always the person who is HIV is the one who is expected to be the sensible one. Nothing like being a party pooper to get you going for a bit of jiggey jiggey. It’s sad that people do not seem to care, getting so off their heads on drugs that they are making possible life changing decisions when they at their most vulnerable. I’ve been there, got the t-shirt, got myself a little blood borne thingey along the way.
What happened to the old days of popping a pill, a dab of speed and trying to kiss as many boys as possible. Well, sort of like that, sorry my memory is errr a bit hazy. My attitude to drugs is a bit ambivalent. Why should I tell what people what to do, when I was just as bad. Whoo, Hoo I can dance more than the two step shuffle, feel alive and attractive, though I probably looked a right old state, if the people around me were anything to go by. And suddenly anal sex seemed SO much less a pain in the old behind.
I’ve never understood the attraction of meth, you feel shit on it, you look shit and afterwards... Don’t go there.
Feeling invincible is part of growing up and until you’ve been through it and realising you are not, is always a hard lesson. Add meth to that, you’re on a one way ticket to well, here.
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I avoid going to sex parties for just this reason. (well that and I am also not an exhibitionist, at least when it comes to sex, I feel too self conscious). I hate meth and I hate having sex with guy on meth. I would have left the scene just because of that!
Anyway, let's be real here. Men don't like condoms. While they are an effective way of stopping the spread of the viru, they will never actually stop the spread of AIDS. We can preach the virtues of safe sex until a comet strikes the planet, but as a practical matter, the only thing that will stop the spread of HIV is a cure. Period.
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Dingoboi, How can you say fuck'em. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. Then you cry on your blogs about the evil meds, and how they don't work, when you're swigging them down with booze. I know you never claimed to be an example, but it pains me to have anyone think that you represent what being gay is remotely about. Sorry dude, but it seems like you are intent on "giving AIDS back to the monkeys."
rob
Sorry to cause you pain, but just because it's not an 'acceptable social behavior' doesn't mean it doesn't exist in this world. Being morally 'superior' won't change the behaviors, just like it didn't change the behaviors of the meth heads.
Point to you for being morally superior. 3 million points to the meth head and others who don't give a shit.
Guess who just won?
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you mean 'lost', yes?
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God, old ways die hard.
Upon seeing this subject line, my instinct was to immediately type in:
Where are you? Got any pics you could trade? Into? Host or travel?
Days gone by...
Those were fun days, that's for sure. Now it's like "What campsite is yours?" ;)
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for the record since I am now the person who shall remain nameless...
I don't approve of intentionally spreading the disease without informed consent. I do think it important that each and every one of us take personal responsibility for our health and ensuring this does not get transmitted further. It's wrong.
That being said, being pious and superior does nothing for those who express these behaviors. In all actuality, it just makes 'em tune you out.
In all actuality, there are many reasons why someone may not disclose going to a bareback orgy. The most likely being that everyone HAD INFORMED CONSENT BEFORE EVEN ATTENDING. Add in self esteem issues, drug dependencies, emotional issues and you have a recipe perfectly suited to not disclosing.
It is behaviors that got us ALL here. Those behaviors don't just change overnight for most people. So, instead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.
The context quoted in another thread conveniently left out the part that i wouldn't dislcose 'probably not today anyway' being my emotional state would make it harder to disclose.
I never said it was right it just is. Same of the meth heads behavior. It just is. Burying your head in the sand won't make it go away and neither will taking a morally superior attitude.
edit to add: "I simply don't know how to carry out a "safer sex" message to this crowd. I'm lost, they have no ears to hear me."
That is the key part of his thread.
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Would like to add.....nope. Never mind. That about covers it.
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I do think it important that each and every one of us take personal responsibility for our health and ensuring this does not get transmitted further. It's wrong.
That being said, being pious and superior does nothing for those who express these behaviors. In all actuality, it just makes 'em tune you out.
In all actuality, there are many reasons why someone may not disclose going to a bareback orgy. The most likely being that everyone HAD INFORMED CONSENT BEFORE EVEN ATTENDING. Add in self esteem issues, drug dependencies, emotional issues and you have a recipe perfectly suited to not disclosing.
Well said, Dingo.
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We moralize in one thread and tout the joys of barebacking in another...odd indeed.
I will leave the moralizing to others but offer a practical warning that we ignore at our peril. Services for people with HIV are now stretched beyond the breaking point. Each newly infected person brings us closer to a government having to make the decision...is it fair to allocate money for diseases caused by risky behavior? The private sector already does...smokers need not apply...your risky behavior will not be tolerated or cause me to pay higher health premiums.
As a poz person who must rely on Ryan White for the most base of services I can see where all this is going. Each time I am re-certified the restrictions are more stringent and what is covered pared down. I truly believe it is so close to the breaking point.
Yesterday I witnessed a mother and her young (twenties) son put on the state of TN waiting list. The mother's tears and arguments could do nothing...I imagine risky behavior was involved.
So my risky behavior brought me here twenty odd years ago...I hope others risky behavior doesn't hasten my departure.
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poignant dach.. and very true.
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This is now back to where it is supposed to be.... and because of that I agree that everyone needs to take responsibility. Like I have said before if a negative person wants to remain so it is up to them to do so.
Saying you would fuck em anyways bareback because they are the ones responsible is not acceptable...and by no means has anything to do with disclosure or lack there of. If that is high and mighty then so be it. I was once told I was one of the three wise men anyways during a drug induced dream.
We moralize in one thread and tout the joys of barebacking in another...odd indeed.
I will leave the moralizing to others but offer a practical warning that we ignore at our peril. Services for people with HIV are now stretched beyond the breaking point. Each newly infected person brings us closer to a government having to make the decision...is it fair to allocate money for diseases caused by risky behavior? The private sector already does...smokers need not apply...your risky behavior will not be tolerated or cause me to pay higher health premiums.
As a poz person who must rely on Ryan White for the most base of services I can see where all this is going. Each time I am re-certified the restrictions are more stringent and what is covered pared down. I truly believe it is so close to the breaking point.
Yesterday I witnessed a mother and her young (twenties) son put on the state of TN waiting list. The mother's tears and arguments could do nothing...I imagine risky behavior was involved.
So my risky behavior brought me here twenty odd years ago...I hope others risky behavior doesn't hasten my departure.
Well said brother... Amen!
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instead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.
quoted-for-truth
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Dingoboi, may choose to bare backtrack now and flip flop on the position, but I have read previous posts of his where he stated that it is "kind of a fantasy of his to infect a neggie." He likened it to being the person who takes another person's virginity, and in that same thread he stated if somebody wanted him to give him the gift, he just might do it. He went on to say that others of us probably thought it was hot too. When noone agreed he barebacktracked that time as well.
So, I have never negated my involvement in catching this horrible disease. People on here may think that it is not so horrible, but for some it will be a death sentence because quality access to healthcare is not universal. Just think if you give it to someone from a developing country where there is no care available.
There are people ont he ADAP waiting list in many states who are literally dying to start meds. The more people get infected, the more the system will become burdened and even people with private insurance like me will have to pay the price, even with my professional degree, how will I pay to stay alive when healthcare becomes too costly to treat this disease long term?
I repeat, I know how I got here, but it angers me that to some people it is just a game in which the price is "a good piece of ass" without thinking the financial and human cost to society.
rob
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And by the way philly, I volunteer at an ASO. What are you doing?
rob
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First of all the person who is infected with HIV has the responsibility to protect himself from getting re-infected and protecting the person he is having sex with as well. It's a 50/50 job but the responsibility lies more in the person who is infected. I am shocked to hear many people on this forum proclaim that they are don't feel they should carry responsibility. Getting infected goes beyond health and mental responsibility, it is also MORAL issue. KOI has said some truth and If you infect someone knowing you are Positive and blame the other person for being careless then it is your responsibility AS WELL."oh well it's not all my fault" is such a lame excuse. IF YOU KNOW and DON"T USE PROTECTION then it is your FAULT as well.
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Hi koi/Rob:
My perception re: that old thing Bailey said was:
Bailey thought the thought was somewhat "hot", and he said he most likely would NOT do it -- and that he would rather not have the temptation in the first place
I'm just going by memory so hopefully my memory is intact
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Another thing I forgot to mention is, If you are HIV positive and are going to sex clubs and orgies then you also need to stop and think if you understand that you are participating in a dangerous act. I am not here to preach goodness but one thing that we have is a responsibility to take care of ourselves first because re-infection is a reality. I am not saying stop having sex but gosh haven't we learned our lesson about promiscouis sex? I don't know but things happen for a reason and if there are people who continue to get high, have anonymous sex and harm their bodies and then complain "Oh my God, I am resistant to all meds because I got a new strain" "I have severe side effects but I stopped drinking as much" then we have't learned our lesson.
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Well the darndest things turn us on, but giving somebody AIDS, is not one of them for me, but that's just me.
rob
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Rob,
I've never read such a post like you described, so I can't particularly comment on it. What I can say is that I personally am not at all ''into'' the idea of intentionally infecting someone. That's a...I don't know how to really describe it, but morbid maybe? That kinda reminds me of that weirdness I've seen on those websites where people ''get off'' on watching each other shoot up meth via web cam. Both of those concepts put me into a headspace that is far, far removed from anything resembling sexy. Sad and even a bit frightening, really. I was only commenting before on the very real situation of a sex party with tweaked out boys. The fact remains that these guys are either already positive and unaware (or don't care), or that they can (and will) be positive in short order, regardless of whether a ''known positive'' slips it in or not.
I ran in that tweaker circle for quite some time. I can tell you point blank that any kind of safe sex message in that environment is going to fall on deaf ears. I have seen (a very few) guys make this attempt during such events. Not once did anyone ever say, "Ya know...he's right! C'mon, boys...pass out the condoms!" Instead, they shun the guy who presents the issue or flat out show him the door. In such an event, promptly leaving might make you feel like an upstanding citizen of the world, but I don't think it amounts to a fart in the wind towards changing world health. No one that you leave at that party is going to be saved from HIV...all it means is that you're not gonna get laid. Your desire to stem the tide is better practiced in trying to educate people outside of such an environment.
(I'm fully prepared to catch some hell for this post, but I stand by it on the grounds of realism.)
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All I see in the orginal post is an alarmed HIV-positive person who took the necessary steps to protect A N Other(s) regardless of them being a drugged non-thinking hot frat boy bottom (or two). As usual in these circumstances, in my experience. - matt
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Yes, and in the end it is better to know that people with Bailey's just barebacke'm anyway mentality exist. It just does nothing for our plight to secure funding for all who need HIV care each year. I don't know if you remember but the bug chaser article in rolling stone was immediately used against us in press even based on nontruths, now imagine it with bailey's refreshingly candid admissions or emissions whatever the case. It affects all ofus.
rob
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Yes Newt,
And the isue was not about the original post that is why I did not want to hijack this thread, and started a new one, but it was shut down, and deemed "borderline flame baiting."
People have a right to express their opinions including you myself and Bailey. But if you say that it okay to bareback people without disclosing (as bailey did) because they are going to get it anyway, I am going to call you on it. Because it is just plain sociopathic to think this way. Does anyone have children loved ones? Woudl you want this happening to them even if they put themselves at risk?
rob
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And by the way philly, I volunteer at an ASO. What are you doing?
rob
Care to clarify for me why I was singled out with this comment, Rob? Thanks.
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To make a long story short, many of these guys wanted to sit on my hardon. I say I'm poz and reach for my condom, and they say, "NO, just fuck me!"
I don't even want to imagine a person with a life that disposable, tho I can, unfortunately.
Daniel
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Philly,
I was merely addressing what you quoted by By Bailey.
Quote from: DingoBoi
instead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.
quoted-for-truth
Listen, this is getting out of hand. I simply took issue with Dingoboi's sociopathic comment. You can either agree that it is sociopathic or not. I did not engage you. You engaged me on severalo occassions. Go back re-read the thread. It seems that if there is a bubble bursting comment, all of those who choose to live in la-la land and not look at the reality of what this disease means, start lynching. However, I don't care working at an ASO has given me a great perspective. You tell an 17 year old that oh, well you didn't protect yourself, it your fault...you had a choice. And this is only after one month of volunteering there. So no, it is not worth infecting someone who has their whole life ahead of them just to get a "good piece of as." This is the quote that I have issue with, nothing else.
rob
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Yes Daniel,
And I commend you for using protection. And I am not attacking you. Again, it is all about dingoboi's attitude that life is disposable. You have a right to have sex responsibly which is what you seem to be doing. I am not judging your indulgences. I realize that you are a responsible person.
rob
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Screw this homophobic society and screw all this simplistic moralizing that contributes to suicide, drug abuse and the killing and death of our (GLBT) people.
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Yes Daniel,
And I commend you for using protection. And I am not attacking you. Again, it is all about dingoboi's attitude that life is disposable
Clearly I didn't read the entire thread (more than 100 replies is waaay too long for me).
What I posted was in reply to the original poster, Jay. Nothing more, nothing less.
Daniel
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Philly,
I was merely addressing what you quoted by By Bailey.
Quote from: DingoBoi
instead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.
quoted-for-truth
Listen, this is getting out of hand. I simply took issue with Dingoboi's sociopathic comment. You can either agree that it is sociopathic or not. I did not engage you. You engaged me on severalo occassions. Go back re-read the thread. It seems that if there is a bubble bursting comment, all of those who choose to live in la-la land and not look at the reality of what this disease means, start lynching. However, I don't care working at an ASO has given me a great perspective. You tell an 17 year old that oh, well you didn't protect yourself, it your fault...you had a choice. And this is only after one month of volunteering there. So no, it is not worth infecting someone who has their whole life ahead of them just to get a "good piece of as." This is the quote that I have issue with, nothing else.
rob
For all of your overly emotional verbiage and flame baiting I still don't see anything objectionable with what I quoted in that particular instance. It's not meant to endorse any other comments on the subject Dingo made.
Otherwise your "I volunteer at an ASO. What are you doing?" reeks of further flame baiting and moral superiority, when in fact you know nothing about what I do or don't do. Further more it's rather irrelevant in discussing this. Working at an ASO doesn't provide you with any more insight with things than my 15 years being HIV+ does. If you want to get in a pissing match I'll be happy to step up to a urinal.
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jeeesh....this post got legs and ran down the street. get off of dingobois ass......lol. like most of us here....bn there done that. where did i get the disease from?.......who the hell knows. moreinliky orgy or bathouse. but to my credit...if there is any i thought i was always being safe. as my doc sez the key word there is 'thought'
yikes i used to love a good orgy..... problem w/ meth twinks though is they can never get hard ;)
so here i am... as the shock wears off im finding myself wanting to get back in the game. i dont know about the rest of u guys <and girls> i wanna have SEX!...lol. but it of course is a whole new game being poz. iv read about poz parties and bn curious to check them out. hey whatz the big deal? u dont have 2 do anything. iv always bn more in2 watching. when it comes to drugs ..yuck....meth just never was my thing. but boy am i a hop head...lol. & i dont care what any1 has 2 say about! but as other have said on here, i know people who have thrown their whole live away for the meth crap. so letz not all act like rev jim and point out each otherz bad points.
once again my 4 1/2 cents!
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Well,
I didn't know what your quoting Bailey in reference to me was supposed to mean, other than get off your but, quit complainging and do something about it. I was just letting you know that I am. And no I don't want a pissing match with you. I'll leave the watersports to you. Once again you engaged me, several times before I even addresed you once. Let's just drop it, seems like you don't want to let it go. Let's agree to disagree.
rob
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Well,
I didn't know what your quoting Bailey in reference to me was supposed to mean, other than get off your but, quit complaining and do something about it. I was just letting you know that I am. And no I don't want a pissing match with you. I'll leave the watersports to you. Once again you engaged me, several times before I even addresed you once. Let's just drop it, seems like you don't want to let it go. Let's agree to disagree.
rob
Oh, no. There's not a SINGLE place on the first page of this thread where I directly responded to a single thing you said by quoting you. Frankly I think your attacking me from my statement in the flame-bait spin off thread you made where you put Bailey's name in the thread title, and to which a moderator (Ann) agreed with my assessment and locked your secondary thread. My comment about your starting the spin off thread had zero to do with the content of your comments, but with your technique in starting another thread and singling out another board member.
Again, I think you're becoming overly emotional right now and on a web board discussion where I don't have the luxury of engaging you in real time this doesn't do much to make to prop up your talking points, especially when you have had to resort to flame baiting and erroneous accusations like you've made with me on this thread. And no, I don't really want to drop it until you say you were wrong to do this and apologize.
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I didn't see philly's quote of DingoBoi as directed at you, koi1. Just a universal statement culled from D's post. I did read your comment as directed at him, however. Just like adding that little ''leave the watersports to you'' bit...just that little something extra in your reply that smacks a bit of moral superiority.
Tim
(who is rapidly reaching the point in this thread where he wants to say, "I don't care. Just fuck me.")
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I didn't see philly's quote of DingoBoi as directed at you, koi1. Just a universal statement culled from D's post. I did read your comment as directed at him, however. Just like adding that little ''leave the watersports to you'' bit...just that little something extra in your reply that smacks a bit of moral superiority.
Tim
(who is rapidly reaching the point in this thread where he wants to say, "I don't care. Just fuck me.")
Thank you. In fact, I think my "quoted-for-truth" quote of dingo's was in agreement with your agreement with him, when you posted "Would like to add.....nope. Never mind. That about covers it. " right after him. I simply wished to clarify which remark dingo stated that I found most useful.
At this point koi1 is so emotionally invested with slamming dingo boy that all other posters who don't cheer on the public flogging are condemned to hell. Sorry, I don't buy that. It's full of utter bullshit and I don't appreciate being called to the carpet like Rob did with me.
In fact, it was one of the more TIRED comments I've read on this board (and that's saying a lot).
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Philly,
People have pmd me about you in particular and asked me not to take the bait bait. I am following their advice. You are right I don't know you and you don't know me. Let's leave it at that. Enough.
Rob
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Philly,
People have pmd me about you in particular and asked me not to take the bait bait. I am following their advice. You are right I don't know you and you don't know me. Let's leave it at that. Enough.
Rob
Glad to see you admit to being factually challenged, even if you won't actually admit it. *I* am flame baiting YOU? That's rich. Factually challenged.
Use the PM button before personally attacking me next time.
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D.R.A.M.A.
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ladies ladies.....please! play nice :)
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Yeah Philly,
My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can be ghetto when I want to. :D From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least then I will be spared looking at your HONCHO Magazine circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste in grooming. LET IT GO. I am.
rob
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Sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows... everything that's wonderful is what I feel when we're together...
Last night, I was at a party with a bunch of drunk straight people... a couple had unprotected sex in the bathroom of this apartment. While I found them to be classy beyond all description, I did throw a condom in there for them. They didn't use it.
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Yeah, whatever. Keep in mind who pulled out her talons first.
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Yeah Philly,
My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can ghetto when I want to. :D From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least hen I will be spared looking at your HONCHO circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste grooming. LET IT GO. I am.
rob
Ad hominem means "you lose" in Latin.
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Yeah Philly,
My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can ghetto when I want to. :D From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least hen I will be spared looking at your HONCHO circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste grooming. LET IT GO. I am.
rob
Wow, an attack on my Jon King homage avatar. He died of AIDS. Way to go. It's amazing the depths someone will sink to on an internet message board when they can't legitimately prove their point or stick to facts.
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You're welcome, philly. Yeah- I gathered your quote as such because you didn't quote the entire Dingo post...just that very deliberate line. I was glad he posted that reply because it clarified what I was trying to type out last night (but was too sleepy to get out right). I'm also glad you made the reply to koi's other thread. His original post ended with "Does anyone else find this post offensive?" I sat there for about five minutes debating whether or not to say, "You mean this post? Yours? Yeah...kinda."
I appreciate- I really and truly do- koi's feelings on this subject. I am also pretty freaked at the idea of intentional infections, as well as saddened by the extent to which drugs (especially the meth/sex combo) is laying waste to so many of us (and this spoken from one of the casualties). I just was not at ease with the way this whole thing was shaking down.
EDITED TO SAY: "Let it go"...after I've taken a few last jabs. (Incorrect ones at that. Hello? Jon King?) What was that about taking bait? Huh? Ah, phooey. Never mind.
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Ad hominem means "you lose" in Latin.
Amazing, wasn't it. Kind of encapsulates the entire thread.
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Amazing, wasn't it. Kind of encapsulates the entire thread.
It does. I was taught that when someone goes for personal attacks in arguments... the other person automatically wins.
But what do I know?
I only learned that at William and Mary.
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It does. I was taught that when someone goes for personal attacks in arguments... the other person automatically wins.
But what do I know?
I only learned that at William and Mary.
Your avatar is a bunch of crap. Why should I even listen to you?
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Your avatar is a bunch of crap. Why should I even listen to you?
Because I'm pretty.
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I'm sooo tempted to say, "You're a virgin who can't drive!'' (But I know only the car part of that is true.)
Gotta run for a bit, kids!
Save my place!
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I've always thought you were hot aupoint.
You are pretty.
Sorry I am not old enough to know who Avatar was, touche.
rob
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This thread has turned into a veritable frat orgy of insults and misunderstandings.
Don't you just love the keyboard girls?
rob
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This thread has turned into a veritable frat orgy of insults and misunderstandings.
Don't you just love the keyboard girls?
rob
Yet you still won't admit you attacked me UNPROVOKED. I'd love the keyboard more if you were intellectually honest.
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A wise man once said, (was it you aupoint?)
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics, Even if you win you are still retarded.
Enough said.
I am not going to change minds, let's just go back to pretending all is well in the world.
I will not apologizze for having an opinion.
the other quote is
To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.
wish I know who said it.
rob
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Personal attacks aren't "opinions" that I know of.
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A wise man once said, (was it you aupoint?)
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics, Even if you win you are still retarded.
Enough said.
I am not going to change minds, let's just go back to pretending all is well in the world.
I will not apologizze for having an opinion.
the other quote is
To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.
wish I know who said it.
rob
I'm afraid I wasn't the one to originally say it.
I was, however, the one to orginally say...
"Sometimes I feel like a drink, so I have eight."
"HIV is like Rasputin."
and, "You can't spell 'dignity' without 'gin.'"
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Sad to see this thread become a flame war.
It's a serious topic and the personal attacks don't do anything for the points people are trying to make. It's all good that you feel passionately about something, but that is no excuse for petulant drama. Besides, once you start that, no one takes your point-of-view seriously.
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Exactly,
But I only had issue with dingoboi, and I said that it was tacky the way I went about it. Philly started adressing me. It got out of hand. He started with the personal attacks. I think it is a serious issue. Working at an ASO has given me some insight. I am talking from experience. I don't know Philly and he does not know me. It seems like we are two very opinionated people. He was not on my radar until he made a comment about a thread I started. We were both wrong for not addressing this through pms.
I am sorry for defaming the good name of a porn star. Hurray for our gay icons.
rob
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Philly started adressing me.
It's been pointed out to you numerous times, by several posters, that this is factually incorrect. YOU addressed me, I never addressed you. It's amazing you continue to spread utter falsehoods to prop yourself up.
The issue isn't WHAT you have said, it's how you have said it with continual personal attacks.
I am sorry for defaming the good name of a porn star. Hurray for our gay icons.
Got it. But when you thought it was actually me it was OK to mock it. So clear now.
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You engaged me by criticizing my thread. So therefore you engaged me first. But am I not supposed to be ignoring you?
rob
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I think a good time was had by all.
I don't think anything said here by me is as agregious as advocating intentioally putting someone's life at risk with a disease that is still killing people. Lots of people agree that this comment by Bailey is "sick and twisted." This is all I want to say philly. You will not get an apology from me, not now, not ever, not even when Bailey finds the right colorist.
rob
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Exactly,
But I only had issue with dingoboi, and I said that it was tacky the way I went about it. Philly started adressing me. It got out of hand. He started with the personal attacks. I think it is a serious issue. Working at an ASO has given me some insight. I am talking from experience. I don't know Philly and he does not know me. It seems like we are two very opinionated people. He was not on my radar until he made a comment about a thread I started. We were both wrong for not addressing this through pms.
Sorry, Koi, but I read through this entire thread. While I can't say I agree with either of you, I would have to say that any dispassionate analysis of this thread would draw the conclusion that your responses appear to be an overreaction to someone disagreeing with you. Newsflash... this is an Internet board. Grow a thick skin if you're going to post. And stop posting threads about someone's "poisoned cream" or attacking someone's mustache. Seriously, if you want to be treated like a grown up... you might find a considerable amount of success if you take to heart the idea that acting like a grown up is the first step. And .... it really does not matter who started it. If you respond to an attack, you are just as guilty as the person who started it. You may think you didn't start it, but you sure ran with it. Now, please make your points without attacking others. The things you say that are valid, which there are many, just fall on deaf ears when you get mean.
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I don't think it's a matter of who started what and who said what first. But someone did admit to provoking closing KOI's thread in which led Ann to close the thread. I thought this forum was about opinions, and if you NEED to address a name to defend your opinion so be it. But I think whoever told Ann to close the thread is at fault as well.
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I think a good time was had by all.
I don't think anything said here by me is as agregious as advocating intentioally putting someone's life at risk with a disease that is still killing people. Lots of people agree that this comment by Bailey is "sick and twisted." This is all I want to say philly. You will not get an apology from me, not now, not ever, not even when Bailey finds the right colorist.
rob
Ad hominem again?
Good Lord. No one wins that way. Ever.
And if you're referring to Philly's criticism of your thread which was locked earlier today... I personally thought Philly was quite restrained in what he said.
I found that thread to be nasty, vicious, and just plain mean.
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I just wanted to say that I again pissed on my ladies leg a while ago while taking a shower. I told her not to try to run or dance out of the way because she might slip and fall, endangering the baby. Even after I gave her fair warning she never exited. She stayed and took it like a trooper.
Thomas
PS Its my fault I am here and if I had not made the mistake I would not know all of you lovely people.
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Well said,
I just want let it go. And I'm sorry that I don't agree with dingoboi. Once again, it all got out of hand, thank you for acknowledging that I did have some valid points. Enough said. However any time someone advocates dingoboi's point of view I will have to say something, and I will gentile manner.
rob.
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thatz itz guys....lol
im outa here....everyone have a good saturday night ;)
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Thomas,
You are a fine person, and I am happy to know you as well. I have a lot of respect for you.
rob
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You engaged me by criticizing my thread. So therefore you engaged me first. But am I not supposed to be ignoring you?
rob
Are you referring to the other thread you started THAT A MODERATOR LOCKED? ha ha... you are lame honey. The thread was locked for a reason, because you flame baited someone.
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I don't think it's a matter of who started what and who said what first. But someone did admit to provoking closing KOI's thread in which led Ann to close the thread. I thought this forum was about opinions, and if you NEED to address a name to defend your opinion so be it. But I think whoever told Ann to close the thread is at fault as well.
To be clear... I didn't PM Ann anything. She locked it herself. I only pointed out that starting a second thread was confusing, and placing another posters name in the THREAD LINE was inappropriate, which it is. It's called baiting.
If the moderator locked the thread for those reasons then I guess she saw some merit to what I said. Unfortunately now folks who are reading this are missing half of the context. Doubly confusing because another poster (koi1) has perpetuated falsehoods directed at me. Never once in this thread did I say a single thing to this poster until they posted a directly confrontational remark to me, and even then I POLITELY asked for clarification.
I refuse to be demonized for something I didn't do. If you read both of the threads it's clear who did what and who is at fault.
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I found that thread to be nasty, vicious, and just plain mean.
Evidently so did a moderator, a point seemingly lost in the sea of the brain dead.
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I find advocating knowingly infecting somebody "nasty, vicious, and just plain mean."
"And if you're referring to Philly's criticism of your thread which was locked earlier today... I personally thought Philly was quite restrained in what he said.
I found that thread to be nasty, vicious, and just plain mean."
still think you are hot though.
rob
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Perhaps placing a name on the title of the thread is inappropriate, but why do you have to go to the extreme to PM a moderator? What does Dingoboi have to say about this. If Dingoboi didn't have much to say about this then why should anyone else? Why just not state your opinion on a reply to the thread like everyone else? If Koi felt the need to state his opinion he is entitled to. And I also agree with you Philly that a name should not be mentioned on the title nor thread. What I saw from Koi was that he was angered by several remarks Dingoboi has said and I agree with him but I don't think he made the wisest choice to start a new thread and state a name on the title. I guess what I am attempting to get across people's head is that it takes two people to start an argument which was Koi and Dingoboi, who ever else came into the issue is just adding more fuel.
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Perhaps placing a name on the title of the thread is inappropriate, but why do you have to go to the extreme to PM a moderator?
CAN YOU READ ENGLISH? I did NOT PM a moderator.
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I find advocating knowingly infecting somebody "nasty, vicious, and just plain mean."
"And if you're referring to Philly's criticism of your thread which was locked earlier today... I personally thought Philly was quite restrained in what he said.
I found that thread to be nasty, vicious, and just plain mean."
still think you are hot though.
rob
As Ann said... the comment was probably said ironically.
i·ro·ny1 /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]
–noun, plural -nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
To use Dingo's own word in Reply 92.
"I don't approve of intentionally spreading the disease without informed consent. I do think it important that each and every one of us take personal responsibility for our health and ensuring this does not get transmitted further. It's wrong."
And even if he did say something like, "I like spreading HIV on purpose... for serious," we wouldn't have needed you to set up a thread to know what a horrible thing that is to do.
Thanks for the compliment. Yeah.
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Perhaps placing a name on the title of the thread is inappropriate, but why do you have to go to the extreme to PM a moderator? What does Dingoboi have to say about this. If Dingoboi didn't have much to say about this then why should anyone else? Why just not state your opinion on a reply to the thread like everyone else? If Koi felt the need to state his opinion he is entitled to. And I also agree with you Philly that a name should not be mentioned on the title nor thread. What I saw from Koi was that he was angered by several remarks Dingoboi has said and I agree with him but I don't think he made the wisest choice to start a new thread and state a name on the title. I guess what I am attempting to get across people's head is that it takes two people to start an argument which was Koi and Dingoboi, who ever else came into the issue is just adding more fuel.
There! Somewhere in there it is! Whatever argument was started before, that ain't the argument it is now. I still say philly was not adding fuel to the fire. He was gleaning a useful comment from the flames. About the equivalent of at least getting a nice, tasty toasted marshmallow out of a fire in progress. When suddenly...the flames leapt up on him! At least that is how it has looked to me.
And I have to say, koi1 keeps coming off with a tone of, "You're stupid and you're ugly. Now can't we please drop it?" koi keeps coming back to saying how he won't apologize for his opinion of Dingo's comments. Fine. So be it. The apology needs to come for hopping on philly, not for his opinion of DingoBoi.
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And even if he did say something like, "I like spreading HIV on purpose... for serious," we wouldn't have needed you to set up a thread to know what a horrible thing that is to do.
quoted-for-truth
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Right on!
I don't care how you put it. Dingoboi's comment on infecting people paired with his sociopathic fantasies of infecting a neggie, are just plain scary. There comes a point when we have to analyze the situation and realize that some behavior is just plain dangerous.
Now if dingoboi was just hurting himself, that's fine, but when you want to take others with you...I just feel that some people don't understands what is wrong with this picture, which is even more scary.
I understand I went about it the wrong way. I have already admitted that. But I can't have any respect for anyone who advocates potentially murdering people. AIDS is not a disease where you just pop a pill and everything will be allright. I know people on here know that. I would still not wish this disease on anyone, not even dingoboi. And noone deserves it, not even tweaked out boys at Iwoan circuit parties. I'm sorry for feeling this way. I just don't know how else to put it. I have already aplogized for going about it the wron way. I just did not want to hijack the original thread. I thought humor might get people to read. And it did. I commend Dingoboi for not getting nasty with me. I will say that about him.
And aupoint, then you can argue that everything on this site is said in irony, I was just going by previous threads by dingoboi where he talked about a fantasy of "infecting a neggie. " I read this when a friend of mine showed me his threads before I was diagnosed, and I do believe my memory serves me well.
I just don't agree with it. I cannot see the value in advocating this point of view, when taken with dingoboi's past posts.
rob
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Right on!
I don't care how you put it. Dingoboi's comment on infecting people paired with his sociopathic fantasies of infecting a neggie, are just plain scary. There comes a point when we have to analyze the situation and realize that some behavior is just plain dangerous.
Now if dingoboi was just hurting himself, that's fine, but when you want to take others with you...I just feel that some people don't understands what is wrong with this picture, which is even more scary.
I understand I went about it the wrong way. I have already admitted that. But I can't have any respect for anyone who advocates potentially murdering people. AIDS is not a disease where you just pop a pill and everything will be allright. I know people on here know that. I would still not wish this disease on anyone, not even dingoboi. And noone deserves it, not even tweaked out boys at Iwoan circuit parties. I'm sorry for feeling this way. I just don't know how else to put it. I have already aplogized for going about it the wron way. I just did not want to hijack the original thread. I thought humor might get people to read. And it did. I commend Dingoboi for getting nasty with me. I will say that about him.
rob
Wow. You just totally slandered Dingo. "Sociopathic fantasies of infecting a neggie?" Harsh. Really, really harsh. As well as completely unverifiable.
And while I'm overwhelmed with the generosity of your statement that you wouldn't even wish HIV on Dingo, I really can't warm up to any of it.
By your logic, we're all "potentially murdering someone" everytime we fuck someone, informed consent or not.
I, for one, have no intention of living like a nun.
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Actually you said you "refused to apologize" but I digress.
You will not get an apology from me, not now, not ever, not even when Bailey finds the right colorist.
As far as dingoboi I don't know how serious to take his remarks, and others including the moderator voiced the same thing. Could have been joking.
But if you'd like me to go on record: People how purposely infect other individuals with HIV disgust me.
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the only person i can make choices for is ME.. I resent that we all the sudden have to take responsibility for the human race... that is NOT my job... god does that... if you disclose and they could care less... carry on!!! use a condom, don't us a condom.. they live their life... not me!!!!
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thank you, Lis! i do the best i can to watch out for my fellow man, but good grief. i have enough on my plate dealing with this virus myself without having to completely assume the burden for the whole of the world, too. at a certain point, i have to accept that i just can't do it.
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This has become an interesting thread indeed. I can truly appreciate the different views. What I have seen is both parties trying to get their points across w/o the use of insults. Which is very refreshing to see but both should still respect the other's point of view. It appears to me that both of you have strong opinions and neither is going to change their opinion, so where do we go from here? Just saying....
(who is in a haze right now, so excuse me if it makes no sense)
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thank you, Lis! i do the best i can to watch out for my fellow man, but good grief. i have enough on my plate dealing with this virus myself without having to completely assume the burden for the whole of the world, too. at a certain point, i have to accept that i just can't do it.
Thank you Tim and Lis!
For the love of God... and maybe I read too much Ayn Rand. But I cannot, and I will not, accept responsibility for the sexual choices of everyone. Especially tweakers at an orgy. We're all masters of our own destiny, and I think it is completely irresponsible... as well as a huge disservice to neggies... to force all the burdens of preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS onto those of us who have it.
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Aupoint,
Nobody is asking you to.
peace,
rob
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Thanks Philly,
that was my whole point
i never said everyone here is spreading it knowingly
I went about it the wrong way.
lets just put this behind us
rob
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Thanks Philly,
that was my whole point
i never said everyone here is spreading it knowingly
I went about it the wrong way.
lets just put this behind us
rob
Dude... I think you owe a couple people some apologies before we can all move on.
I'm not one of them... but saying that you "went about it the wrong way" is a pretty poor mea culpa.
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I've already said that I am sorry for going about it the wron way.
And We all know that locking a thread limits the discussion.
I will not apologize for having an opinion. Just like you called me a slanderer, without knowing if dingoboi said those things or not, is your opinion. Dingoboi has been called on this issue before. It may have been before you started visiting this website. I have been viewing the posts on this website (before I knew I was poz) with a friend who got it from someone that knew they were HIV positive for a while now.
rob
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Benj: Put. The. Ayn Rand. Down. Never to pick it up again. Seriously.
I went on a date last night. With a girl. Dinner, movie, and then she invited me for drinks to her place. Classic date. But it was most unorgiastic.
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Oh, good grief! Sex parties on Thursday...dates (with a gal, no less!) on Friday...
Forget all the arguments on this thread. Now I'm just bitter in general!
>:(
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Oh, good grief! Sex parties on Thursday...dates (with a gal, no less!) on Friday...
Forget all the arguments on this thread. Now I'm just bitter in general!
>:(
lawl!!!@timmy kthxbye
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I've already said that I am sorry for going about it the wron way.
And We all know that locking a thread limits the discussion.
I will not apologize for having an opinion. Just like you called me a slanderer, without knowing if dingoboi said those things or not, is your opinion. Dingoboi has been called on this issue before. It may have been before you started visiting this website. I have been viewing the posts on this website (before I knew I was poz) with a friend who got it from someone that knew they were HIV positive for a while now.
rob
Your continual falsehoods (read: LIES) about me had ZERO to do with dingo once you made them to me. What IS your IQ? three?
However, it DOES sound like you have a personal issue with dingoboi predating ANYTHING contained in these threads. I suspected as much but was generally too lazy to research the issue, but you've now come out and exposed yourself. So basically you had no reason to lie about me, make false accusations, make personal attacks ad nauseum infininium today.
Horribly fascinating. Are you in therapy? If you're not you might want to consider this option.
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I've already said that I am sorry for going about it the wron way.
And We all know that locking a thread limits the discussion.
I will not apologize for having an opinion. Just like you called me a slanderer, without knowing if dingoboi said those things or not, is your opinion. Dingoboi has been called on this issue before. It may have been before you started visiting this website. I have been viewing the posts on this website (before I knew I was poz) with a friend who got it from someone that knew they were HIV positive for a while now.
rob
See, I'm having trouble seeing where you definitively apologized for "going about the wrong way." Which I personally think is a nice way of making you seem like you were just lost and didn't know that calling someone ugly to make your point was "the right way of going anout something."
And I didn't so much call you a slanderer per se as I said you slandered Dingo. Unlike many people, I differentiate between who they are as people and the actions they engage in.
However... I will promise you something. If you can find for me one scrap of evidence where Dingo himself posted something that said to the effect of, "It is hot for me to spread my virus like Vegemite on toast. I'm not kidding. For serious." If you can find that for me... where he said that he wants to spread HIV... and where it makes sense in context, then I will publically apologize to you for saying that you slandered him.
I'll be holding my breath.
Oh, and starting flamebait threads in which you single someone out for attack should be shut down. That's not so much a "discussion" as it is a "catty bitchfest."
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If I can kinda quote myself from earlier...again I say that the apology order is more for the hopping on philly than for your opinion about safer sex responsibility. You (koi) seem to be actively side stepping that bit.
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Koi- For your own good, let it go. You apologized for going the wrong way and addressing your diappointment on Dingoboi which I support you 100%. People on this thread seem to be against you because you have defended yourself aggressively and mentioned a name or two on those who provoked you but let it go. You unlike other people, believe it is a RESPONSIBILITY for all of us infected with HIV to protect ourselves and the person we are having sex with. Other preach that they don't wish to hold anyone else's actions a responsibility. They keep missing your point about Dingoboi fantasizing about giving it to a negative person. They want you to apologize for something you already apologized for. Maybe they are bitter, maybe they made mistakes or maybe they just have a different opinion. Who knows? Just let it go, as long as you know you are are taking responisbility and not spreading the disease and Stated your disgust on those who choose not to protect others from getting infected. Your approach was wrong but your heart was in the right place. Unfortunately you will find people in this world who want to make things all about themselves.
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Aupoint,
This is pointless. And yes people's actions do matter. That is just like saying Hitler was not such a bad person. He just did bad things. I can see nothing more moralistic than your hate the sin love the sinner approach to this issue. Like I said, maybe others will corraborate what I said. If they don't you can choose to believe it or not, much like everything in life.
I did not just pounce on Bailey for his first innocent post. You know that, lots of people know that. Many people have called him much worse over time for his irresponsible, inciteful posts. That is a fact. I don't hate you, I hope you see the good in what I have to say, just as I see the good in what you have to say. I think we have all been guilty of name calling at one point on this website.
I don't have to accept everything you say, just as you can have much disdain for what I have said. I never said you are responsible for the sexual health of the planet. But I would like to think that we can put someone else's safety before cheap thrills.
My whole point all along has been that knowingly transmitting this virus is wrong. And yes if you advocate this with posts like Bailey's, I have no respect for you. Pure and simple. I will not apologize for this. The only thing I recall saying about Bailey is that he needs to find a better colorist. Sue me. My critique of what I thought was Philly only came after I felt attacked by him. This he said, she said business has made my original point a needle in a haystack.
And yes the thread name was bit much, but so was the post that inspired it.
I think the moderators know Bailey's track record and have defended his right to say what he wants. At first I was uneasy about it. Now I am not, but by the same token I have a right to disagree with someone's opinion. Discussion can degrade to name calling very quickly. You are not above this either.
You don't know much about me, yet are calling me a liar freely. Okay dude. I respect your right. And yes if you knowingly, deliberately, infect a person you are a potential murder especially if you don't disclose it. Just because people are at an orgy doing drugs doesn't mean they are there to get AIDS. We all know many of these people have severe addictions, depression. Some may not care. But most will wake up one day from it and realize what has happened to them with or without their culpablity.
I have another friend who now takes fuzeon. He contracted HIV when he went through sever trauma and loss. He knows he put himself at risk, but the road that took him there was not his fault. He wants to live. Hew volunteers with me. It not that simple. But we can all make a difference.
What is funny that so few people know about my status, not one where I volunteer. I have only talked frankly with someone else I met here about my status, my ex and another friend. This place is a good place. We don't have to like what people say to see that.
rob
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Aupoint,
This is pointless. And yes people's actions do matter. That is just like saying Hitler was not such a bad person. He just did bad things. I can see nothing more moralistic than your hate the sin love the sinner approach to this issue. Like I said, maybe others will corraborate what I said. If they don't you can choose to believe it or not, much like everything in life.
I did not just pounce on Bailey for his first innocent post. You know that, lots of people know that. Many people have called him much worse over time for his irresponsible, inciteful posts. That is a fact. I don't hate you, I hope you see the good in what I have to say, just as I see the good in what you have to say. I think we have all been guilty of name calling at one point on this website.
I don't have to accept everything you say, just as you can have much disdain for what I have said. I never said you are responsible for the sexual health of the planet. But I would like to think that we can put someone else's safety before cheap thrills.
My whole point all along has been that knowingly transmitting this virus is wrong. And yes if you advocate this with posts like Bailey's, I have no respect for you. Pure and simple. I will not apologize for this. The only thing I recall saying about Bailey is that he needs to find a better colorist. Sue me. My critique of what I thought was Philly only came after I felt attacked by him. This he said, she said business has made my original point a needle in a haystack.
And yes the thread name was bit much, but so was the post that inspired it.
I think the moderators know Bailey's track record and have defended his right to say what he wants. At first I was uneasy about it. Now I am not, but by the same token I have a right to disagree with someone's opinion. Discussion can degrade to name calling very quickly. You are not above this either.
You don't know much about me, yet are calling me a liar freely. Okay dude. I respect your right. And yes if you knowingly, deliberately, infect a person you are a potential murder especially if you don't disclose it. Just because people are at an orgy doing drugs doesn't mean they are there to get AIDS. We all know many of these people have severe addictions, depression. Some may not care. But most will wake up one day from it and realize what has happened to them with or without their culpablity.
I have another friend who now takes fuzeon. He contracted HIV when he went through sever trauma and loss. He knows he put himself at risk, but the road that took him there was not his fault. He wants to live. Hew volunteers with me. It not that simple. But we can all make a difference.
rob
You played the Hitler card!
I was wondering when that would happen!
You're right... you weren't the only one to get after Bailey. However, you keep keep on it like a puppy on a rope... then went after Philly... and so on and so forth.
I have yet to see you produce one scintilla of evidence as to Bailey's own personal feelings as to the sexiness of spreading HIV. So... me thinking that you're making it up isn't so much an "opinion" as it is a "fact" so far as I can tell.
When did I call you a liar? Where? When did I say, "Koi, you are a liar." Not once.
And when you said, "And yes the thread name was bit much, but so was the post that inspired it."
So, if I were to start a thread that said, "Koi is an unapologetic mean-spiritied person who likes attacking people in douchbaggy ways. Discuss." Would that be a "bit much?" Would you like it?
I think not.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a mainstay of Internet culture, an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."[1]
Godwin's Law does not dispute whether, in a particular instance, a reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be apt. It is precisely because such a reference or comparison may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[2] that overuse of the Hitler/Nazi comparison should be avoided, as it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[3] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki discussion pages.
Godwin claims[1] that he introduced Godwin's law as an experiment in memetics.
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Folks, in looking back over this thread I'd say a number of people have had their say, matters are waxing and waning and waxing heatedly. The fixed positions of each are pretty clear and have turned repetitive to no good purpose. And are heating up again to no good purpose or greater understanding as far as I can tell.
I'm going to trust if there is a theme here which needs further discussion it will turn up another time.
In the meantime to give matters a rest I am locking this thread.