POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: drewm on March 19, 2011, 12:00:16 am
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Guys, gals, is there any scientific, medical data linking popper use to Karposis Sarcoma or HIV in general?
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Guys, gals, is there any scientific, medical data linking popper use to Karposis Sarcoma or HIV in general?
This is classic!!! I think they rank close to kissing as a form of transmission. Seriously are you guys just sitting around trying to think what ridiculous topic can I post now?
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Thanks :o
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This is classic!!! I think it ranks close to kissing as a form of transmission.
You should have seen some of the other comments that were made along side the claim that poppers cause KS. I can't believe what I've read in their explanation of a friend's death.
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Honestly, this is why I brought the question here. There is still a lot of conjecture on the internet when you Google "does poppers cause Karposis Sarcoma" and related issues. Thanks guys! ;D
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Honestly, this is why I brought the question here. There is still a lot of conjecture on the internet when you Google "does poppers cause Karposis Sarcoma" and related issues. Thanks guys! ;D
Exactly there is a whole lot of shit all over the internet!!! As far as HIV and transmission see here for yourself (direct from AIDS MEDS)
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9961.shtml
And from the American Cancer Society regarding KS:
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/KaposiSarcoma/DetailedGuide/kaposi-sarcoma-prevention
Amazingly poppers are not listed anywhere as a cause.
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I agree that there is a lot of shit all over the internet. This is one of those things that popped into my head and made me start thinking. I have been reading, on here in fact, that HAART has greatly reduced KS but I certainly don't want to help this virus do anymore damage if I can help it.
Keep in mind, please, this is still very new too me. I did not even know what a denialist was until reading these forums. I am very thankful I found all of you. :)
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Seriously are you guys just sitting around trying to think what ridiculous topic can I post now?
He's newly diagnosed and just became aware of a former member's death and the circumstances surrounding it. I think he's just trying to get some clarity on the matter.
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i would think that if pappers caused KS, then there would be lots of guys walking around dallas with lesions on their bodies. lol. everyone i know uses poppers
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i would think that if pappers caused KS, then there would be lots of guys walking around dallas with lesions on their bodies. lol. everyone i know uses poppers
Exactly, I would have had the AIDS and KS back in the 80's from inhaling them nightly while dancing to "Don't Leave me this Way" or "It's rainy men"!!! I will say that they are probably not healthy, but then again neither is eating to much fried foods or drinking a 2 liter of Diet coke on a daily basis. As far as causing KS or AIDS, nope.
He's newly diagnosed and just became aware of a former member's death and the circumstances surrounding it. I think he's just trying to get some clarity on the matter.
And if you do a search you will find countless threads relating to poppers and this road to no where.
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And if you do a search you will find countless threads relating to poppers and this road to no where.
Would you rather he ask this question over on the denialist forum where this claim stems, or would you rather he ask it here? You and I know the answer to his question, but are you even trying to take into consideration where this is coming from? I don't think you are. If you have a problem with his thread perhaps you should have never replied.
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The last time I used some poppers was 1979, and even back then, I didn't like them, after that, I would just say ( as the bottle was going around) no Thanks, I'm good, but you go ahead, I don't need that shit, never did ;D
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Guys...THANKS! I GET IT! My ENT test last spring revealed KS lesions so I was asking here because this is something that has been on my mind the past 24 hours or so and I couldn't find a straight answer on the other sites.
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The last time I used some poppers was 1979, and even back then, I didn't like them, after that, I would just say ( as the bottle was going around) no Thanks, I'm good, but you go ahead, I don't need that shit, never did ;D
In 1979 I sniffed model glue while building a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress in my room, I was 9.
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Would you rather he ask this question over on the denialist forum where this claim stems, or would you rather he ask it here? You and I know the answer to his question, but are you even trying to take into consideration where this is coming from? I don't think you are. If you have a problem with his thread perhaps you should have never replied.
Last I heard the only places there are restrictions in participating in discussion is in the Am I..., LTS and Women's thread, so we will leave that at that.
And yes I do have a problem with this thread. The information is right there in front of us in the AIDS MED lessons that clearly state facts. I have never checked out a denialist site nor would I have any desire. I will always stick with credible and scientific sources. I can't imagine why smart intelligent individuals would check out a denialist forum and take whatever information they have and compare it to the scientific facts and info in AIDS Meds to help make a decision. I guess I am surprised how any one would consider anything other than the facts as laid out from credible sources.
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It has nothing to do with those who want to check out denialists sites. Like I explained to you privately there are those who have just read about Emery Taylor's death and the circumstances surrounding it. It's not surprising that someone new to all this would ask such questions, especially after having the subject thrown into their thread in Off Topic.
If that bothers you, I don't know what else to say....
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Having just read the book "And The Band Played On, People and Politics of AIDS", by Randy Shilts, there was quite a bit of suspicion in the early 80's about the role (if any) of poppers on KS and HIV. The book touched on this quite a bit at the beginning. I believe researchers spent lots of time trying to actually find a link, and from memory I don't believe they ever found one, or proved one.
In saying that, other research seems to indicate poppers may weaken the immune system perhaps but I think that's about it... (apart from the burnt skin on the edges of your nose that you hope no one notices while it heals)...
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HERE IS THE GENERAL BACKGROUND, in brief, for newbies:
Before HIV was identified and even a bit after, there was serious attention to Poppers as cause of KS and even a cause of AIDS - immune collapse.
This was early and mid 80's stuff.
Denialist Peter Deusberg perpetrated this theory long after it was proven false by medical consensus.
Peter Deusberg's theories are very important in denialist arguments, to this day.
Voila. Everyone understand now why these things are still on the net? Because people still die today of AIDS and "denialists" or "alternative" or "resistant" groups - whatever you or they want to label it - still bring up all sorts of wildcard theories to explain an AIDS death to be result of anything and everything BUT HIV virus.
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Kudos to Pozoz for the same thought, we were typing at the same time.
Furthermore, my doc said the immune depressive effect of poppers is short-lived (day or two) and not everyone gets it.
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From the John Hopkins site:
"Poppers" are inhaled nitrites (amyl nitrite, butyl nitrite, etc.) that are inhaled through the nose, leading to an intense but brief "head rush." They are typically used in clubs to intensify the experiencing of dancing, and during sex to intensify and prolong the sensation of orgasm. By itself, the drug can't increase the risk of HIV transmission, though it can be dangerous in people with cardiovascular or cerebrovascular disease. However, people who've just snorted nitrites are not usually thinking about the future--for those brief moments they're not going to care that the condom just broke or that they promised to pull out before ejaculation. Sex is intense enough without taking a drug that removes what few restraints are left!"
"Can the immune system be negatively affected through nitrates from poppers?"
On May 3, 2001 Joel E. Gallant, M.D., M.P.H. replied:
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"Poppers (inhaled nitrites) are not thought to adversely affect the immune system, though few of them have been well studied. "
Posted on Mar 20, 2000
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Hi Dr Gallant, Hope you had a great holiday, lots of rest and also sun and fun. I have two questions which I am worried about. The first is the association of amyl nitrate (poppers) with Kaposi? I am HIV+ since 94, started therapy in Jan 98. I am been doing fine on therapy (I was recently on viracept/3tc/d4t) started with crixivan/3tc/d4t in jan 98. I am currently off waiting to get the resistance test because I will restart eventually a new therapy without d4t and viracept because mild symptoms of lypoastrophy on my face. Probally the next combo with combivir, viramune and add 1592. So back to my questions... I do quite rarely use amyl nitrate on special occasions when having sex. Is it any danger using it on very irregular basis? Is is related to Kaposi?? Also I have read this study of hiv poz guys who are having anal sex and bottom are more likely at risk to develop colon cancer and it is not unusual, what do you think?? I really paranoid about all this, I am afraid every time I am having anal intercourse though everything is safe. My vL was less than 50 and my cd4 are over 400. Thanks so much Steve
On Mar 25, 2000 Joel E. Gallant, M.D., M.P.H. replied:
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Steve, In the early days of the AIDS epidemic, there was some concern that the use of poppers (nitrate/nitrite inhalants) might be linked with Kaposi's sarcoma. It's now clear, however, that this was simply an association that had no causal relationship: Gay men who had sex with numerous partners were more likely to become infected with both HIV and with KSHV (the virus that causes KS), and they were also the people most likely to use poppers. This is a classical example of the dangers of trying to attribute a cause-and-effect relationship on the basis of an epidemiologic association. Poppers have their problems: they can cause headaches and could be dangerous in people predisposed to cardiac or neurologic problems. They could also inhibit your judgement: in the rush of the drug effect they could cause you to engage in unsafe sex. But they won't cause Kaposi's sarcoma. Unprotected anal sex is associated with the transmission of human papillomavirus (HPV) and anal warts, which in turn can lead to rectal or anal cancer. If you've been a "bottom" it's not a bad idea to be checked for warts. There is also growing support for doing anal Pap smears in gay men with a history of anal intercourse to look for the presence of HPV-related changes. "
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This is classic!!! I think they rank close to kissing as a form of transmission. Seriously are you guys just sitting around trying to think what ridiculous topic can I post now?
Educating someone through ridicule rarely succeeds.
While some topics may seem obvious and/or absurd to someone with some experience with this virus, they may not be so to someone newer. Lord knows this topic has caused lots of commotion in the past, there is no need to start the turmoil again in post#2 of this thread.
Perhaps a little understanding in an order - we all were new to this once too.
Mike
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In 1979 I sniffed model glue while building a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress in my room, I was 9.
Thank god you weren't building this, you wouldn't have any brain cells left. :D (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/images/787index_K64962_15.jpg)
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Thanks to drewm for raising the question and for several of the posters for clearing the air on poppers. I had the same question as drew and in fact posted it yesterday on another thread - because I have seen mention of poppers causing KS a number of times in different threads over the past few months. I have KS and have a real interest in understanding the connection. I am glad to find out there is no connection.
I don't understand why some found the question offensive. It is an honest question from someone who didn't know the answer. No one can claim to have perfect knowledge. The great benefit of these forums is exchange of knowledge and support. Let's be supportive!
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I am not afraid to ask questions and will continue to do so. Thanks to all who weighed in on this...everyone. Like I said, I did not know what a denialist was UNTIL AFTER I ASKED THE QUESTION on this thread. When someone mentioned it, I looked it up.
Regardless, my inquisitive mind is now satisfied. After my Baptism by fire a few weeks ago here, I am no longer shell-shocked by some of the responses and can only hope that I don't slap someone across the face who is new here for asking a similarly "idiotic" question. Anyway, no offense taken as we are way beyond that and thanks again to you all.
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Please utilize what little brain power you have -- do you actually think with the large amount of HIV/AIDS cases in Africa that they're all sitting around snorting poppers and getting KS? The last time I was in downtown Kampala, Uganda I found it really difficult to locate poppers.
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Please utilize what little brain power you have -- do you actually think with the large amount of HIV/AIDS cases in Africa that they're all sitting around snorting poppers and getting KS? The last time I was in downtown Kampala, Uganda I found it really difficult to locate poppers.
and anything else I'm sure ;D
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:-* @ Miss Phillicia
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Drew I am glad you aren't deterred from asking questions! I am reminded of nychope1 who posted a message of hope and optimism on November 26 and faced criticism for being naive. Sadly we haven't seen nychope1 on here since December 18.
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Had this question been asked by a 19 yr old diagnosed just recently my response would have been totally different. But the OP is not 19, has been poz for almost a year, with past posting history as well as the number of posts I don't consider new to the forums . To me the posts I reference seem to exemplify a good knowledge of HIV and what appears to be an ability to conduct research to find answers to any questions. I just thought that the research would have been done and the science based answer would have been obvious therefore no reason to ask the question. I guess my thinking was wrong, of course not rgarding the subject matter of KS & Poppers.
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I am 45, have had KS lesions on my arms and legs for over a year, made an honest effort to find the answer to the question of poppers and KS that had been raised in a number of posts, and could not find it before I asked it in another thread. I am becoming worried that there are some questions that shouldn't be asked, but I don't know how to distinguish between a safe question and one that is out of bounds...
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Dunno, I fail to see why we should be ridiculing Drew for asking a question. Regardless of the age of the poster, number of posts, etc...Perhaps It would have been better to just refer him to the links you referenced rather than saying this...
This is classic!!! I think they rank close to kissing as a form of transmission. Seriously are you guys just sitting around trying to think what ridiculous topic can I post now?
-Will
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My question, when it comes down to it, was really about the KS lesions in my esophogus (sp?) being aggravated by poppers. OK? I had Googled the words aforementioned and got conflicting information. I did not PM those who have extended compassionate answers and friendship through PM's choosing instead to post in the forums because somewhere I read that we should ask questions HERE for the benefit of everyone.
There could be a 19 year old recently dxd who has the same question and got the answer here.
Assuming that someone who was dxd a year ago would seemingly have all the answers or capable of doing scientific research is patently unfair. You know what they say about opinions. My decision to ask in the forums is not one that I regret and I will do it again when the next question pops into my head.
For those of you who simply were waiting to jump down my throat, you'll get you chance again so sharpen your knives (save me how this wasn't that bad---I don't care). And again, and again, and again, THANK YOU to those who explained this better AND for opening my eyes to denialism which, as I said, I have never heard of until last night.
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Drew I am glad you aren't deterred from asking questions! I am reminded of nychope1 who posted a message of hope and optimism on November 26 and faced criticism for being naive. Sadly we haven't seen nychope1 on here since December 18.
That would be because I believe he was banned, dear...for confrontational behavior and shenanigans.
I am 45, have had KS lesions on my arms and legs for over a year, made an honest effort to find the answer to the question of poppers and KS that had been raised in a number of posts, and could not find it before I asked it in another thread. I am becoming worried that there are some questions that shouldn't be asked, but I don't know how to distinguish between a safe question and one that is out of bounds...
Good freakin' grief. You're really gonna tell me you couldn't find anything relevant about KS and poppers here? Really? It's been so played out that it was a running joke on here in my earliest AM days - some 6 years ago now.
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I guess I am not as bright as I hoped :-X
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My question, when it comes down to it, was really about the KS lesions in my esophogus (sp?) being aggravated by poppers
Possibly yes, more because it's a solvent and contact irritant than because its particularly carcinogenic.
I do not believe there is such a thing as a stupid question, especially when it comes to the crossover between a good time and cancer.
- matt
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I guess I am not as bright as I hoped :-X
I've never had a dim moment. ::)
My biggest popper concern would be the cardio issues. I practically strap a bottle to each nostril....especially if the dick is EXTRA good.
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You could make a good deal of money selling those popper bottle straps...
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My biggest popper concern would be the cardio issues. I practically strap a bottle to each nostril....especially if the dick is EXTRA good.
ROFLMFAO at thunter34 :o
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Thanks newt ;)
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You could make a good deal of money selling those popper bottle straps...
Ya know....there really HAS to be a better way to administer poppers - er, "room oderizers". That burnt nostril skin really IS an issue - not to mention just how difficult srewing the cap back on can be with lubey fingers.
There is a fortune to be made there, I'm tellin' ya.
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Thank god you weren't building this, you wouldn't have any brain cells left. :D (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/images/787index_K64962_15.jpg)
LOL I would have had one hell of a time painting that blue pin stripe on the side.
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These are the planes the engines fall off, right?
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These are the planes the engines fall off, right?
Eeeeek, I used to live right over the path of the LAX airport yrs. ago, and all I could think of was some dam plane part falling form the sky, and landing right on my bed when I was on the up-stroke plowing some ass ;D
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Eeeeek, I used to live right over the path of the LAX airport yrs. ago, and all I could think of was some dam plane part falling form the sky, and landing right on my bed when I was on the up-stroke plowing some ass ;D
A friend of mine lived in Atlanta during the late 80s and had a huge piece of ice come crashing through the roof of his house.... was determined to have come off of a jet passing over coming in for a landing at Hartsfield Intl. I am not sure if he was in the midst of 'getting sum' when it happend though.
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I am not sure if he was in the midst of 'getting sum' when it happend though.
If he was wonder if he was using poppers?
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If he was wonder if he was using poppers?
Most likely. As I recall he LOVED them. So did I and used them till my head hurt.
I used poppers more when dancing rather than in the bedroom when I was getting my brains screwed out. The subject did make me think a bit though, most of the tops I have been with enjoyed using them. I would say close to 75% if I had to come up with an educated guess. AND... since I have been HIV poz for around 10 years, I would say some of them were poz too. (another guess... go figure!)
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Most likely. As I recall he LOVED them. So did I and used them till my head hurt.
I used poppers more when dancing rather
Some mornings my lips were the most unusual blue color. I got so good using poppers while dancing could take the lid off with the same hand I was using to hold them. Which is a skill I still have except I am not dancing as much.
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Eeeeek, I used to live right over the path of the LAX airport yrs. ago, and all I could think of was some dam plane part falling form the sky, and landing right on my bed when I was on the up-stroke plowing some ass ;D
How Donnie Darko.
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Some mornings my lips were the most unusual blue color. I got so good using poppers while dancing could take the lid off with the same hand I was using to hold them. Which is a skill I still have except I am not dancing as much.
My dancing days are pretty much over. The music was SOOOOO much better back in the late 70s and early 80s (IMHO). I tried taking the lid off with the same hand but I spilled the bottle all over my shirt. You have more talent that I do my friend!
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You're truly master class when you can take the lid off, inhale and screw it back ON with the same hand.
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Sadly we haven't seen nychope1 on here since December 18.
I think he was banned, and not for being hopeful.
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I think he was banned, and not for being hopeful.
Thats for sure! He prolly still lurks about as a 'guest' though. We would ALL know if he created and signed in as a different user because of the nature of his posts. The IP address thing would be a giveaway for the mods too I recon. That boy had a few issues.
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My question, when it comes down to it, was really about the KS lesions in my esophogus (sp?) being aggravated by poppers. OK?
In fairness that's not really how you phrased it in the opening post. Common sense would dictate not snorting poppers after knowing of a KS/esophageal diagnosis, for the irritant aspect newt wisely mentions, not because poppers were the cause of this happening. For the same reason I'd probably not smoke cigarettes, joints, meth, crack with this particular health situation.
Other than that there's absolutely no reason not to have a discussion of what you do recreationally with your throat when you're having a doctor's visit -- trust, they've heard it all.
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You could make a good deal of money selling those popper bottle straps...
The boys at Fort Troff's Pigmart (http://www.forttroff.com/pigmart/) already market such a thing.
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The boys at Fort Troff's Pigmart (http://www.forttroff.com/pigmart/) already market such a thing.
DAMN how have i missed it??
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Common sense would dictate not snorting poppers after knowing of a KS/esophageal diagnosis, for the irritant aspect newt wisely mentions, not because poppers were the cause of this happening. For the same reason I'd probably not smoke cigarettes, joints, meth, crack with this particular health situation.
God, I hope I never get that particular health situation then.
I won't know what to do with myself.
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Thanks for asking this. I know a lot of people who still think that there is a connection between the use of poppers and KS. This information is really helpful. With all the misinformation out there regarding HIV, I really don't think there is any such thing as a stupid question. I think that in forums like this, being able to freely ask questions without ridicule or being bullied is important.
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In fairness that's not really how you phrased it in the opening post.
Well, now that you mention it, you are exactly right. I did not bare it all in my original question hoping that the answer would come without all of the obligatory back-biting and razor tongued responses that have come as a result. Some folks are a real piece of work but you know what? Even through the snarky, smart-ass comments, my questions were answered AND I learned what denialism is for the first time. So forgive me for being a little gun-shy about baring it in these forums, the results speak for themselves.
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I am sorry, based on the orginal post I didn't realize that the purpose of the thread was to learn about denialism.
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In fairness that's not really how you phrased it in the opening post.
Well, now that you mention it, you are exactly right. I did not bare it all in my original question hoping that the answer would come without all of the obligatory back-biting and razor tongued responses that have come as a result. Some folks are a real piece of work but you know what? Even through the snarky, smart-ass commentsh, my questions were answered AND I learned what denialism is for the first time. So forgive me for being a little gun-shy about baring it in these forums, the results speak for themselves.
I really like your posts, but I have noticed in the time that I have been reading these forums that you and some others get bullied and jumped on quite a bit. I think that is why I have been pretty afraid to post or ask questions, for fear of getting ganged up on. Reading here often I am reminded of the cruel hallways of junior hi and high school and the mean insecure bullies. You stand up to them well and I enjoy your input and insight.
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I am sorry, based on the orginal post I didn't realize that the purpose of the thread was to learn about denialism.
It wasn't. That just happened to be a lesson I had not counted on.
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I am sorry, based on the orginal post I didn't realize that the purpose of the thread was to learn about denialism.
Woods, you know perfectly well that Drew did not intend to ask about denialists, but that it came up in relation to the belief denialist hold that poppers are the cause of KS in gay men.
Berating people for asking simple questions has got to cease. We were all ignorant of all things hiv at one time in our lives and we learn by asking questions.
There is no such thing as a stupid question. Stupid answers, however, are another thing entirely and I'm afraid, Woods, that your first answer in this thread falls into that category.
I'm also afraid I'm going to have to warn you Woods. Knock off the snarky comments when someone asks a question. Either answer their question to the best of your abilities or move on to another thread. All responses such as yours do is make people afraid to ask things. ASKING THINGS IS HOW WE LEARN.
There are so many conflicting answers about things like KS and hiv on the internet - I would much rather answer one thousand and one "stupid" questions than have someone get misinformed elsewhere.
Ann
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How Donnie Darko.
What's Donnie Darko ???
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What's Donnie Darko ???
A little piece of cinema awesome starring Jake Gyllenhaal that I still haven't totally wrapped my head around, but love to watch anyway.
Donnie gets killed - sort of - by a piece of jet plane landing in his bedroom.
Google it.
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What's Donnie Darko ???
Only one of most awesome cult classics of all time!
I recommend the director's cut.
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Only one of most awesome cult classics of all time!
I recommend the director's cut.
Ahh ok, I'm in my mid 50's so, I don't know these things, but thanks for the tip tho ;D
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A little piece of cinema awesome starring Jake Gyllenhaal that I still haven't totally wrapped my head around, but love to watch anyway.
Donnie gets killed - sort of - by a piece of jet plane landing in his bedroom.
Google it.
Ahh ok thanks Tim :)
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starring Jake Gyllenhaal
drool! 8)
google says there is a sequel "S Darko"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1231277/
but I didn't see any evil bunny wabbit in the trailer. LOL
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Apologies to all.
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Apologies to all.
Thanks woodshere ;)
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drool! 8)
google says there is a sequel "S Darko"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1231277/
but I didn't see any evil bunny wabbit in the trailer. LOL
I actually own that video, but have never watched it. It was a gift. I am too afraid of the suck factor.
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I actually own that video, but have never watched it. It was a gift. I am too afraid of the suck factor.
It's not good. I love the original one of my top 5 favorite movies of all time.
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(Lets be clear this thread now includes the words bedroom, suck, Jake, Gyllenhaal, biting, tongued, awesome and head.)
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... and poppers and cupcakes
(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af197/bedstuy65/2011-03-17214125.jpg)
The cupcakes prevent the poppers from giving you KS :-* ::)
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I actually own that video, but have never watched it. It was a gift. I am too afraid of the suck factor.
I too own the video. Unfortunately, I did watch it. It was interesting, but yeah, the Suck Factor seemed pretty high. Though that might be 'cause I wasn't ::)
CaptCarl
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Donnie Darko was a fine movie, a bit like a 1960's-70's acid trip (a giant rabbit never hurts ;))
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Donnie Darko was a fine movie, a bit like a 1960's-70's acid trip (a giant rabbit never hurts ;))
OK, OK saw it last night, it SUCKED, and I keep having bad dreams about that giant rabbit, and not in a good way :D
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OK, OK saw it last night, it SUCKED, and I keep having bad dreams about that giant rabbit, and not in a good way :D
If you didn't like Donnie Darko I don't know if we can be friends anymore. It's really difficult to follow especially the first time through and most assuredly if you didn't watch the Director's cut which does a better job of explaining exactly what's going on.
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Now lets all get back on Topic shall we? now this is a blast from the past, and a lot of POPPERS I'm sure :D(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/denb45/MindShaftDressCode1976.jpg)
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Now lets all get back on Topic shall we? now this is a blast from the past, and a lot of POPPERS I'm sure :D(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/denb45/MindShaftDressCode1976.jpg)
Sounds like my kind of place!!!!
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Sounds like my kind of place!!!!
Mine too, Woods!
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Now lets all get back on Topic shall we? now this is a blast from the past, and a lot of POPPERS I'm sure :D(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/denb45/MindShaftDressCode1976.jpg)
Are there places like this anymore? Sounds interesting.
Dan
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Yes there is Dan, if you know where to look ;D we have one here in ABQ it's called "SIDEWINDERS"
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I doubt we have a place like that in Orlando. All I know about is the bathhouse and like 3 or 4 gay nightclubs. One of which is very fancy restaurant/bar. LOL
Dan
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Ah yes, The Parliament House in Orlando. A lot of fun but not at all like the Mineshaft was. I had a friend check a tux at the coat room at the Minieshaft so he could go in.....naked.
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Ah yes, The Parliament House in Orlando. A lot of fun but not at all like the Mineshaft was. I had a friend check a tux at the coat room at the Minieshaft so he could go in.....naked.
Ah yeah, the P-House lol... been there... it's alright. Lots of different activities to do there... LOL
Dan
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Midtown Spa in Houston. MMMMMMMMMMMMM :P :P :P :P :P
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Bijou Cinema (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kencta/188372803/)
That shuttered door under the "Bar" sign (which is for the street level straight bar) leads down to the basement Bijou Cinema, East Village, Manhattan. Read the blurb under the picture for the fascinating history.
I lived five blocks from there when I was diagnosed with teh AIDS. ::) It was quite legendary in the mid-90's. I once lost my apartment keys in Booth #11 which just was so not fetch. Free Oreos and Hawaii 5-0, and bowls of unused condoms.
... and poppers. Lots of poppers.
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I was there in the early to mid 90's too.
I liked it better in the winter than the summer.
I also distinctly remember it was popper heaven and first time I really discovered them and also that poppers used to make me rock hard.
I remember one time I was gonna stay and do it do it do it as much as possible and mid way through the night this boy started up with me and he felt my skinny sweating body and obvious bags under my eyes and he dissed me saying Honey you get yourself home and take your AIDS medicine you're burning up. I told him I was negative (true) and he wouldn't have it, and did that thing with the hands in the face and stormed out of the booth queenily trashing me. It was both appalling and funny. Was that you? :o
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Yes, it was always busier in the winter -- The Ramble was closed seasonally dear, and any other outdoors festival of cock.
Amusingly, and though that wasn't me, that totally sounds like something I would say to someone sweating heavy at a sex club, followed by a loud cackle as I ran to the next victim.
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A little piece of cinema awesome starring Jake Gyllenhaal that I still haven't totally wrapped my head around, but love to watch anyway.
Donnie gets killed - sort of - by a piece of jet plane landing in his bedroom.
Google it.
First, sorry to bring to thread back up.. I saw Donnie Darko when it was first released and thought it was crap.. among the few thousands that actually bought a ticket to see it in a cinema.. loved the sound track though.. the piano version of "Mad World" still sends chill through my body.
Then everyone told me to look for the director cut DVD, which I never did until I read these posts and I borrowed it from a friend. Just watch it again this evening..
WOW...
Only I am sure I will dream about the rabbit tonight.. :P
Didn't know why I didn't like it the first time round
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First, sorry to bring to thread back up.. I saw Donnie Darko when it was first released and thought it was crap.. among the few thousands that actually bought a ticket to see it in a cinema.. loved the sound track though.. the piano version of "Mad World" still sends chill through my body.
Then everyone told me to look for the director cut DVD, which I never did until I read these posts and I borrowed it from a friend. Just watch it again this evening..
WOW...
Only I am sure I will dream about the rabbit tonight.. :P
Didn't know why I didn't like it the first time round
I didn't even really understand it - still shaky on it in some aspects. I just know that something about it lodged in my head and wouldn't let go.
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I didn't even really understand it - still shaky on it in some aspects. I just know that something about it lodged in my head and wouldn't let go.
I totally know what you mean.. I won't put Donnie Darko up there on my favorite list (yet), but there are films I have seen that totally lodged in my head and there are scenes that wouldn't let go, for years.. in my case 3 out of 5 that really really have shaken me up are by the Russian director Andrei Tarkovsky:
Stalker - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfowVslQBQk
Solaris - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_0UPh5FELg
Mirror - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2oUxYHdu8
Especially "Mirror".. I still freaking dream about it (well, Sustiva won't help..)
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First, sorry to bring to thread back up.. I saw Donnie Darko when it was first released and thought it was crap.. among the few thousands that actually bought a ticket to see it in a cinema.. loved the sound track though.. the piano version of "Mad World" still sends chill through my body.
Then everyone told me to look for the director cut DVD, which I never did until I read these posts and I borrowed it from a friend. Just watch it again this evening..
WOW...
Only I am sure I will dream about the rabbit tonight.. :P
Didn't know why I didn't like it the first time round
The director's cut is much clearer in explaining the basics of the plotline. Which is good because the original is unnecessarily complicated.
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I didn't even really understand it - still shaky on it in some aspects. I just know that something about it lodged in my head and wouldn't let go.
That's kinda how i is with me as well. There are some things that I'm still fuzzy about, but I still think it was a most excellent movie. S.Darko, while not total tripe, was not in the same league as the original, but at least was a smidgen more understandable. Just a smidgen though...
CaptCarl
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There are some things that I'm still fuzzy about, but I still think it was a most excellent movie.
as is the problem with most movies, there isn't enough time and it's too hard to understand the internal thoughts of characters. The storyline in the book is much easier to follow to understand. ;) ;)
mikie
who has never been happy with how the storyline in Stephen King books have been interpreted in movies. If you hadn't read the Shining, you'd never understand the scene with the guy on his knees in the dog suit. ;)
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as is the problem with most movies, there isn't enough time and it's too hard to understand the internal thoughts of characters. The storyline in the book is much easier to follow to understand. ;) ;)
mikie
who has never been happy with how the storyline in Stephen King books have been interpreted in movies. If you hadn't read the Shining, you'd never understand the scene with the guy on his knees in the dog suit. ;)
The Stand was a well done mini series, but the book was about 1000 times better.
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The Stand was a well done mini series, but the book was about 1000 times better.
hence why I was complaining about the movies. ;) The television mini-series of the Stand was the best filmed version (although NOT a movie) of anything that's been done of S King's; while the television mini-series of the Tommyknockers was worse than any of the movies. (but I thought the book was derivitive and sucked too)
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hence why I was complaining about the movies. ;) The television mini-series of the Stand was the best filmed version (although NOT a movie) of anything that's been done of S King's; while the television mini-series of the Tommyknockers was worse than any of the movies. (but I thought the book was derivitive and sucked too)
I remember my dad having a VHS boxed set of The Stand... I watched it a couple of times as a kid. I don't even remember much of it, but I remember it used to give me the willies. (Ever since then, I haven't been much of a fan of King... I just don't like weird, spooky movies, etc. To be honest though, I've never even read any of his boooks... but I did like the movie "The Mist".)
But I keep hearing about Donnie Darko from various friends telling me I should watch it... and of course another impulse is Jake Gyllenhaal LOL. I don't know if I should watch it, I've been pondering about it for almost a year now. What do you guys think?
Dan
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Anyone want to talk about the latest Catherine Deneuve movie Potiche?
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But I keep hearing about Donnie Darko from various friends telling me I should watch it... and of course another impulse is Jake Gyllenhaal LOL. I don't know if I should watch it, I've been pondering about it for almost a year now. What do you guys think?
Although I did enjoy the weird movie (even if the bunny was ultra-creepy), I mainly watched it so I could say that I've seen every movie that Jake has been in. ;) Don't ponder any longer - just do it. ;) :D
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I only liked Broke-Back-Mountain & Jarhead, the rest of his movies just didn't do anything for me @ all ::)
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Damn he's FINE!
(http://i51.tinypic.com/nv1pvr.jpg)
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I only liked Broke-Back-Mountain & Jarhead, the rest of his movies just didn't do anything for me @ all ::)
not "October Sky"? or was that too nerdy? LOL "The Day after Tomorrow"? How about "Brothers"? (though really that was more a spidy/Tobey Maguire movie). I still haven't seen "Love and Other Drugs" or "Source Code" so I don't know about them. However you do realize that it's not really about his movies or his acting and whether they are any good ("Prince of Persia" ::) ) but about the hotness of Mr. Jake. ;)
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Heath > Jake
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Heath > Jake
Preach.
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I saw him making the rounds for that source code pic, he seems likeable, short, and fey. Is this the best metro-sexuality can offer?
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Although I did enjoy the weird movie (even if the bunny was ultra-creepy), I mainly watched it so I could say that I've seen every movie that Jake has been in. ;) Don't ponder any longer - just do it. ;) :D
Hahaha yes, that's my main motivation for seeing it as well. Netflix has the DVD so I guess I'll just add it to my queue
And Drew: HELL YEAH HE'S FINE!! Thanks for the pic! :D
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:P