Oral / coated tongue

[Stressedandworried1]

Long story short.  Received oral Sep 3rd from a female CSW in Morocco.

Everything was great, until i started thinking about the HIV prevalence in Africa. (Although North africa is not as high)

6 or 7 days later i had frequent urination, and random body pains that lasted seconds.   Oct 1 or so, i got a lump in my throat feeling, and about 5 days later my tongue was whitish (coated).

November 16, i had blood drawn for a 4th gen duo test and complete STD panel.  All came back negative (10 weeks and 2 days after incident)

Still have whitish tongue that has not changed.  Mouth is dry(ish) and i feel like i have nasal drip.  But sinuses are clear.  Tounge is  more white towards the back.  I sent pictures to 2 dentist who said its normal/caused by dry mouth.  I have seen other people post with negative tests complain About the same thing. 

Could my test be wrong?  Maybe some crazy strain?  Just stress / anxiety?  Is this even typical of HIV?  Could my body maybe not produce antibodies?  All help and answers are appreciated. 

[Jim Allen]

Receiving a BJ is not how HIV is transmitted, hence nobody has ever been infected from receiving a BJ.

Work with your doctor to treat whatever is making you sick, it's not HIV from anything you posted here.

Jim

[Stressedandworried1]

Thank you! This dry  Mouth and slightly coated tongue just keep me worried

[Jim Allen]

You're welcome.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, every time, no exceptions.

Keep in mind that some sexual practices which may be described as ‘safe’ in terms of HIV transmission might still pose a risk for transmission of other STI's, so please do get fully tested regularly and at least yearly for all STI's including but not limited to HIV and test more frequently if unprotected intercourse occurs

Also note that it is possible to have an STI and show no signs or symptoms and the only way of knowing is by testing.

More information on HIV Basics, PEP, TaSP and Transmission can be found through the links in my signature to our POZ pages, this includes information on HIV Testing

Kind regards

Jim

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[Stressedandworried1]

So just as I'm getting over my anxiety from getting a bit from a hooker in Africa (tested neg out to 6 months)

I hooked up with a 20 something Russian tourist.  Sex was protected, but we both performed oral sex on each other for about a minute.  No blood was ever seen, but I'm worried about the cunnilingus I performed on her.  My mouth health is pretty good except for the furry/coated tongue I somehow got after my Africa exposure.  How would you view this situation?   Thanks,

Stressedandworried

[Ptrk3]

I would view the situation you describe with the 20-something Russian tourist as a no-risk for HIV-infection event (including the oral sex, since you don;t have "meth mouth").

You had already tested "conclusively" negative (at 13 weeks or beyond) for your hooker in Africa event, so that activity is irrelevant.

Do those answers satisfy your concerns?

If so, move on with your life and continue to practice safer sex.

If not, please provide further information or test for peace of mind at six weeks past the last event, then at 13 weeks past last event for confirmation of the six week results.

If you do test, I fully expect your tests to be negative for the events you write of in your original post.

[Stressedandworried1]

So it's been 11 1/2 weeks since I had protected sex and unprotected oral both ways with a girl I met from russia. 
I told her I was nervous a week after the incident and she said she went in to test and said all was clear.  But what about if she had new infection = high viral load, and not showing up on tests. 

I went today for a full std panel, so I'm awaiting results, and the first post I see when I log in is a guy saying he's hiv positive from protected anal and receptive oral.  Now I'm worried about what the test results will be.  Even on poz.com apparently there were 2 cases of hiv from receptive cunnilingus.  And the cunnilingus was after the protected sex, so it may have brought vaginal liquid up from deeper area.  Although I never stuck my tongue inside of her, just used the top of my tongue to lick the clitoris.  Do these details increase my risk for any reason in your experience?

[Ptrk3]

You had protected vaginal sex, which is not a risk for HIV-infection.

Unprotected oral sex of any kind is a viable mode of HIV-transmission and is, at worst, a theoretical risk if the active partner's mouth is full of gaping wounds (as in "meth mouth").  However, unprotected oral sex can expose one to other STD's/STI's.

I fully expect that any conclusive HIV-antibody test that you take will be "negative" as a result of the activities you have described in your original post.

[Stressedandworried1]

Is a viable?? And I'm most worried about the cunnilingus

[Stressedandworried1]

And if it were a new infection would that make risk higher?  I did the water test on the condom, but what about microscopic holes?

[Ptrk3]

You did not contract the HIV from the activities you have stated that you had conducted in your post.

For your own peace of mind, if you are going to believe otherwise, test for HIV-antibodies six weeks after the event, then at 13 weeks past the event for confirmation of the six-week results.

As stated, I fully expect that your conclusive test will be negative.

[Jim Allen]

I agree with Ptrk you had no risk from what you posted here.

I did the water test on the condom, but what about microscopic holes?

Microscopic holes is myths and water testing 

Firstly oral as explained is a theoretical risk but its when giving a BJ, even than it still needs a route so damage to the mouth, cunnilingus is not even that and, is simply no risk.

Also stop testing condoms with water before/during or after intercourse! Its totally paranoid and tells you nothing at all. If you test the condom before you use it this can weaken the condom, making it more likely to break during use. So don't and, also never test a condom after you use it. Instead, immediately dispose of the condom in the bin.

Testing the condom after intercourse could damage the condom, as its not designed to be "reusable" or re-stressed like this after intercourse and this could lead you to mistakenly think that the condom was damaged during sex, when in fact you actually caused the damage after the intercourse by trying to "test" it with water. In short, testing the condom yourself before or after use is not a reliable way to tell you anything.  Testing condoms yourself is basically a daft myth.

Its simple HIV simply can not transmit through the intact latex or polyurethane barrier and most condom simply fail due to incorrect usage or care. (User error) When a condom fails during intercourse its no "Microscopic hole" as the condom shreds leaving no doubt.

So what is correct usage? Well to reduce the risk of condoms failing this includes, making sure that whatever the type of condom being used, you only use approved condoms. In other words check for certification mark (FDA, CE, ISO or Kitemark etc.). This means it complies with safety standards. Check the expiry date and make sure the condom is still in date.

When using condoms use lubricant, condom safe water-based lubricants this makes condoms more comfortable and also reduces the risk of breakage. – but avoid oil-based lubricants as they can weaken or break condoms.

As for putting condom on correctly, if incorrectly done it increases the risk of breakage.  Place one on top of the erect penis and pinch the teat at the end of the condom before you start to roll it down the penis. By doing this you’ll squeeze out any air bubbles and ensure there is room for the semen (cum).Roll the condom down to the base of the penis.

If it's on correctly it will roll downwards easily. If you've started putting it on the wrong way or you’re not sure then take it off and try again. Even if you have not   ejaculated (cum) there can still be semen (pre-cum), so it’s important to try again with a new condom. (This is mainly due to other easier to transmit STI's and if with a cis-woman pregnancy risks)

Finally if you are changing the sex act, than change the condom.

Jim

[Stressedandworried1]

Tested Negative.  Thank Yall for your time and patience. 

[Stressedandworried1]

Hi, I have posted before, and I probably know the answers but I have a few questions.


16 days ago I had oral and vaginal sex with a CSW in Brazil in a Bar/Brothel.  All protected, same condom.  When we were done I filled the condom up with water from shower and saw no leaks (but it was low light)  the condom brand I believe was NATEX, a condom made in Brazil from latex.  Should I trust this?
Also, when i was filling the condom up, I'm sure vaginal fluid ran off condom and down my body, and I used the same bar of soap as CSW in shower right after her.  And risk?

Under extreme anxiety again and had a constant headache and stiff neck (I know we do not discuss symptoms here).

[Ptrk3]

You had no risk of HIV-infection for your latest episode (of protected sex).

The HIV is fragile and does not survive in a viable manner in the ambient environment.

You really do need to come to terms with your anxiety issues.

In the alternate, you may wish to no longer engage in sexual activities (even if protected) with CSW's, since your anxiety after the fact appears to overwhelm you; or, you need to test for HIV-antibodies after every encounter (to deal with your anxiety).

[Stressedandworried1]

Thank You.  I plan to test at 6 weeks and move on.  Will take your advice and refrain myself to putting myself in this situation.    What is your opinion on those people who said they always had protected sex and still contracted HIV?

[Jim Allen]

I agree with Ptrk and ill add that if you come back with more no-risk scenarios or questions about no-risk situations that basically already have been covered in the past risk assessments, it will lead to a ban (Time out) from the forum, this is to encourage you to seek face to face mental health support. 

You got laid, no reason to panic, its all rather simple as HIV simply can not transmit through the intact latex or polyurethane barrier, fact - end of story. This has been explained before yet you are back with more irreverent & irrational fears over nothing.

The condom did not break during the intercourse, so you had no HIV risk from this sexual encounter to be concerned about, move on. I don't know what else you have been doing on life, but this event certainly was not a HIV concern.

When we were done I filled the condom up with water from shower and saw no leaks (but it was low light)

  Stop that! At best you are just exposing yourself to easier to acquire infections (Not HIV) and worse yet you are feeding your paranoid thoughts.

Its totally paranoid and tells you nothing at all. If you test the condom before you use it this can weaken the condom, making it more likely to break during use. So don't and, also never test a condom after you use it. Instead, immediately dispose of the condom in the bin.

Testing the condom after intercourse could damage the condom, as its not designed to be "reusable" or re-stressed like this after intercourse and this could lead you to mistakenly think that the condom was damaged during sex, when in fact you actually caused the damage after the intercourse by trying to "test" it with water. In short, testing the condom yourself before or after use is not a reliable way to tell you anything.  Testing condoms yourself is basically a daft myth.

Its simple HIV simply can not transmit through the intact latex or polyurethane barrier and most condom simply fail due to incorrect usage or care. (User error) When a condom fails during intercourse its no "Microscopic hole" as the condom shreds leaving no doubt.

What is your opinion on those people who said they always had protected sex and still contracted HIV?

Nothing much, same thought I have about the "Virgin Mary" - BS.  Look there are other-ways to contract HIV than just the act of intercourse. If someone always had protected intercourse with no exceptions, used condoms correctly and never had a condom shred, than its rather simple they did not acquire HIV through intercourse.

However this risk assessment is about you and based on facts, not stories. If you are looking for story time, this is not the site for you.

I say that as science has moved on and anecdotal stories are just stories, not facts.
Example its like we no longer believe 1980's reports self reported claims that IV drug users were give each-other HIV by kissing, we know better and understand the biological facts of HIV transmission. It a bit like we also know that elephants can't fly no matter how hard they flap their ears regardless of what you read or watch on online. Oh yeah before i forget the IV drug users of course were either sharing needles or engaging in unprotected sex. 

There are many reasons why someone would rather not admit to an exposure or the full truth. Being newly diagnosed is difficult enough time on its own, for some it is a time of struggling with deep fear of HIV stigma, social judgment & self stigma but also things like acceptance and facing ones own sexuality, religion, family, sexual relationships etc etc and for others even legal or prosecution fears.

There is allot of misinformation and stories on the internet and lots of opinions or outdated data that get passed around as facts, We however rely on the latest scientific peer reviewed science for our assessments. This also gets fed back into the poz pages on transmission risks if needed and great effort is put into ensuring the message is clear.

Move on with your life, don't post about this again I truly mean it, you have been warned.

Jim


2018
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.eclinm.2018.08.001

STI Risk Perception in the British Population and How It Relates to Sexual Behaviour and STI Healthcare Use: Findings From a Cross-sectional Survey (Natsal-3)

We have identified falsely optimistic views of personal STI risk among a substantial proportion of those at risk of STIs in the British population, which could have a negative impact on efforts to promote safe sex and STI testing, and the control of STIs.

Among those classed as having ‘unsafe sex’ in the past year (comprising approximately 1 in 5 sexually-active 16–44-year-olds), 39.2% of men and 51.0% of women rated themselves as not at all at risk of STIs

2018
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0032885517753163

Underreporting in HIV-Related High-Risk Behaviors: Comparing the Results of Multiple Data Collection Methods in a Behavioral Survey of Prisoners in Iran

Participants reported more sexual contact in prison for their friends than they did for themselves. In men, NSU provided lower estimates than direct questioning, whereas in women NSU estimates were higher. Different data collection methods provide different estimates and collectively offer a more comprehensive picture of HIV-related risk behaviors in prisons.

2018
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5268760/

Socially desirability response bias and other factors that may influence self-reports of substance use and HIV risk behaviors: A qualitative study of drug users in Vietnam

The accuracy of self-report data may be marred by a range of cognitive and motivational biases, including social desirability response bias

2018
http://emj.bmj.com/content/35/1/46
Self-perceived risk of STIs in a population-based study of Scandinavian women

Subjective perception of risk for STI was associated with women’s current risk-taking behaviours, indicating women generally are able to assess their risks for STIs. However, a considerable proportion of women with multiple new partners in the last 6 months and no condom use still considered themselves at no/low risk for STI.

2018
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09540121.2017.1384787

Social desirability bias and underreporting of HIV risk behaviors are significant challenges to the accurate evaluation of HIV prevention programs for orphans and vulnerable children (OVC) in sub-Saharan Africa

2018
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhiv/article/PIIS2352-3018(18)30062-6/fulltext

Non-disclosed men who have sex with men in UK HIV transmission networks: phylogenetic analysis of surveillance data

Jim: In short they analysed the genetic code of the virus from HIV-positive people and came to the conclusion that some of the self-reported heterosexual mens HIV was more than likely actually non-disclosed MSM.

2017
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28509997

Social Desirability Bias and Prevalence of Sexual HIV Risk Behaviors Among People Who Use Drugs in Baltimore, Maryland: Implications for Identifying Individuals Prone to Underreporting Sexual Risk Behaviors.

2017 --In regards to STI's
https://journals.lww.com/stdjournal/toc/2017/07000
Sexually Transmitted Diseases: July 2017 - Volume 44 - Issue 7 - p 390–392

Is Patient-Reported Exposure a Reliable Indicator for Anogenital Gonorrhea and Chlamydia Screening in Young Black Men Who Have Sex With Men?

Among 485 young black men who have sex with men recruited in Jackson, MS, 90-day anal sexual exposure significantly predicted rectal infection, but 19.4% of rectal infections would have been missed among men denying receptive anal sex. Reports of consistent condom use were associated with lower infection rates only in men reporting insertive anal sex.

2016
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010782416305418
Could misreporting of condom use explain the observed association between injectable hormonal contraceptives and HIV acquisition risk?

Jim - Not a conclusive or in depth study but under the study participants it did find: 9 out of every 20 sex acts reported with condoms are actually unprotected

2009
The Validity of Teens’ and Young Adults’ Self-reported Condom Use
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/articlepdf/380711/poa80067_61_64.pdf

A significant degree of discordance between self-reports of consistent condom use and YcPCR positivity was observed. Several rival explanations for the observed discordance exist, including (1) teens and young adults inaccurately reported condom use; (2) teens and young adults used condoms consistently but
used them incorrectly, resulting in user error; and (3) teens and young adults responded with socially desirable answers

BMC Public Health 2007
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-7-60

Analyses of data from the Demographic and Health Surveys, Sexual Behaviour Surveys and from other countries show a similar pattern indicating under-reporting
It is probable that as HIV campaigns encouraging delayed sexual debut and abstinence before marriage reach the population, people will report behaviour
assumed to be more socially desirable.

there are some signs of differential reporting bias in our study. We found that controlling for less risky sexual behaviour substantially reduced the association between HIV and survey time among urban men, but less so among women; this may suggest that self-reports from men about sexual behaviour are more reliable. Studies suggest that respondents, especially women, tend to under-report the number of lifetime sexual partners . Therefore, analyses of associations with, and changes in, self-reported sexual behaviour should be interpreted with caution.

2010
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2957626/

Self-presentation bias (wishing to be viewed in a positive light) may result in patients underreporting behaviors they perceive to be stigmatizing

Approximately a third of the men in the sample reported that they did not disclose all of their risk behaviors to the HIV counselor during the face-to-face risk assessment. These results echo similar studies of risk disclosure to medical providers

[Stressedandworried1]

Good Evening.

I am a worried well and put myself in a risky position again.      

I met a female CSW in Brazil.  She's young and just starting.   She gave me a handjob with baby oil and then we had vaginal sex with her on top.   Durex condom.   She used baby oil the whole time.   I eventually removed the condom and finished via masturbation.  Tested the condom with water (I know you say not to) 11 days after 1 day 100.4 fever.  25 days after. 3 days of diarrhea. 

I'm worried because the baby oil..  could cause small holes in condom.  Also, sure I used the same hand to remove condom that i used to masterbate.  Sure it had her vaginal fluid all over it.  Worried it could make it to my urethra.  Or the baby oil could have irritated my urethra making me more susceptible. 

Thoughts??

[Jim Allen]

Hiya

I'm sorry to hear that you are stressing about sex again, I wish you well but this has all been answered before by us.

As warned a ban, 28 day ban to encourage you to seek face to face professional support from a therapist to help you cope with your fears & thought.

Jim

if you come back with more no-risk scenarios or questions about no-risk situations that basically already have been covered in the past risk assessments, it will lead to a ban (Time out) from the forum, this is to encourage you to seek face to face mental health support. 

You got laid, no reason to panic, its all rather simple as HIV simply can not transmit through the intact latex or polyurethane barrier, fact - end of story. This has been explained before yet you are back with more irreverent & irrational fears over nothing.

The condom did not break during the intercourse, so you had no HIV risk from this sexual encounter to be concerned about, move on. I don't know what else you have been doing on life, but this event certainly was not a HIV concern.