Isn't it time to just start treating everyone?

[thunter34]

No cuts on Euro-socialists, please!  Hope the systems here continue to work for many years.  Beats all the fucking hassle in the US, one of the richest countries and most advanced countries in the world.

And that, ultimately, is what the "controversy" here is all about.  Treatment for everyone?  Sure!  And shelter that no one should freeze and a plate that no one should starve while we're at it.

Now tell me how you realistically aim to make it happen.  Otherwise, you're just yammerin' to hear yourself and must be existing in a fairly comfy bubble.

The health care system here is so bizarre, and having to worry about where our health care and meds are going to come from affects us in all sorts of profound ways.  I certainly don't feel free to jump ship and move back to the Carolina coast, for example.  And sunny Florida is certainly out.  

But at least I am getting pills.  And when there are so many who currently are not, I remain sort of baffled at the intent of this thread and why the OP seems to be getting so confrontational about it.

And since we're on the subject, why stop with just HIV?  I'm sure there's loads of health issues for which some additional funding and preventative measures would do a world of good.

No tell me precisely how.


-thunter34

(who also takes instead of gives, it seems)

[newt]

No tell me precisely how.

Hello Europe (lots of health systems to choose from)*

 - matt (European) the newt

* and NZ and Oz not to mention Canada at the mo (and South Africa, Brazil, Nepal etc...)

[Raf]

I hope at least this study serve as means to get med to everyone on these ADAP lists, and those who don't know about ADAP yet but have all the aids symptoms ... I think the first priority are not those who have high CD4 counts (even though in the future they will ) but those with VLs really high and poor CD4 counts.

Talking about evil socialists, even in my particular third world hole (AKA Venezuela) we have a a national aids program, who provides meds, CD4 and VL exams and appointments with the docs for free. Of course, you have to enter but there are no waiting lists, the only requisite is that you have to get checked every 3 or 4 months to get a new recipe.

And before you even think it, I'm aganist this "socialist" regime, I hate that guy that calls himself "president" of my country (AKA super gorilla chavez) , but, truth be told, I'm alive because this program, the only damn good thing on this government (even the public health system is a disaster, here one must look for a private clinic here to get worth medical service).

Now that I think of it, even with our national program, the last time I saw it in the papers, the aids epidemic numbers on my country keeps raising every year, and worst yet, many people here don't know about the program...but well, we are talking about a country with a media wich only remember aids in december 1, the aids day, and the rest of the year? nothing, not a single campaign or advertisement.

EDITED TO ADD: But at least you are able to get access to more convenient meds like Atripla. I'm positively sure that Atripla is not available on the meds lists in my country... and whoa, I could manage the weird dreams only for the convenience of having to take 1 pill ( I have to take 6 each day). I didn't asked the docs about changing my combo yet, because...well, I kinda developed only a few of the secondary effects of the meds, and I've been doing relatively well these years. My plan is to stay on these meds until my virus gains the resistance or if I develop the more serious secondary effects in the future... but I'm a bit jealous of those who are under atripla.

EDITED 219982479837483 times for spelling errors, and I'm sure there are more of them, LOL

[leatherman]

we are talking about a country with a media wich only remember aids in december 7, the aids day, and the rest of the year? nothing, not a single campaign or advertisement.

do you mean World AIDS Day which is December 1st?
here in America too, there's not a lot of talk about HIV in the general media, except for WAD.

[Raf]

do you mean World AIDS Day which is December 1st?
here in America too, there's not a lot of talk about HIV in the general media, except for WAD.

Oh yeap. Sorry about that. I'll correct my post right away, thanks.

It's a shame to see that the media only remember this damn bug on december, or when a celebrity gets it.

[leatherman]

It's a shame to see that the media only remember this damn bug on december, or when a celebrity gets it.

we actually got some local media coverage about HIV back in Feb/Mar but that was only when the state of SC was debating totally defunding ADAP and HIV prevention programs so they talked about ADAP, the funding for access, and the statistics (SC is now #9 with the most new cases of HIV infection); but as soon as the budget was passed there's been no more talk about HIV in the state.

[CaptCarl]

do you mean World AIDS Day which is December 1st?
here in America too, there's not a lot of talk about HIV in the general media, except for WAD.

Oopsie! December 7th here in the states is Pearl Harbor Day. 

CaptCarl

[Miss Philicia]

Oopsie! December 7th here in the states is Pearl Harbor Day. 

CaptCarl

December 8th was the last date that Captain Kangaroo aired on television (1984).

[Rev. Moon]

Cap'n my cap'n, here's a suggested avvy pictar for you...



 

[anniebc]

Cap'n my cap'n, here's a suggested avvy pictar for you...



 

Love it, as I'm sure our Captain will..any of clouds by any chance, the dark variety of course...

Aroha
Jan

[phildinftlaudy]

Love it, as I'm sure our Captain will..any of clouds by any chance, the dark variety of course...

Aroha
Jan

any of suicide vests?  perhaps a suicide vest adorned with photos of a 1,000 virgins?  Just askin'

[anniebc]

any of suicide vests?  perhaps a suicide vest adorned with photos of a 1,000 virgins?  Just askin'

Well now you are just being silly..1,000 virgins, really?

Aroha
Jan

[Rev. Moon]

Love it, as I'm sure our Captain will..any of clouds by any chance, the dark variety of course...

Aroha
Jan

Not readily available, but since I am filthy rich --and I can throw mah dollaz at whomever I want-- I could have one custom made for us.  It will have encrusted diamonds and rubies along the borders.

[phildinftlaudy]

Well now you are just being silly..1,000 virgins, really?

Aroha
Jan

Ok  - I'll settle for one really hot one - as long as he isn't from Arkansas and tipping the scales at more than say, oh, I don't know, 400 lbs???

[Rev. Moon]

Ok  - I'll settle for one really hot one - as long as he isn't from Arkansas and tipping the scales at more than say, oh, I don't know, 400 lbs???

Quit tryna' steal Auntie D's man.  Get yourself a sugah daddy instead.

[anniebc]

Not readily available, but since I am filthy rich --and I can throw mah dollaz at whomever I want-- I could have one custom made for us.  It will have encrusted diamonds and rubies along the borders.

Splendid..Rubies are my birth stone.

Aroha
Jan

[anniebc]

Ok  - I'll settle for one really hot one - as long as he isn't from Arkansas and tipping the scales at more than say, oh, I don't know, 400 lbs???

Note to self...don't drink at the computer, I'm sick of cleaning it...

Aroha
Jan

[wolfter]

any of suicide vests?  perhaps a suicide vest adorned with photos of a 1,000 virgins?  Just askin'

Another post about a 1000 virgins.  I'll take a variety pack please.

[Miss Philicia]

Splendid..Rubies are my birth stone.

Aroha
Jan

I must send you a picture of my hundred year old, 14k hand engraved, white gold with large ruby men's ring handed down to me from my grandfather!  I wear it all of the time and it's my favorite possession in the world.

Amethyst is my birth stone but I much prefer a ruby.

[Jeff G]

I must send you a picture of my hundred year old, 14k hand engraved, white gold with large ruby men's ring handed down to me from my grandfather!  I wear it all of the time and it's my favorite possession in the world.

Amethyst is my birth stone but I much prefer a ruby.

Send it to me too . Ruby rings are my favorite .

[CaptCarl]

Send it to me too . Ruby rings are my favorite .

Makes fisting more interesting....

Kanga

[Miss Philicia]

Send it to me too . Ruby rings are my favorite .

My attempts at using the close up "macro" focusing on my nicer camera were not particularly inspiring.  If I get really bored perhaps I'll research with the manual.  Kind of busy with Paulo right now though.

[Jeff G]

My attempts at using the close up "macro" focusing on my nicer camera were not particularly inspiring.  If I get really bored perhaps I'll research with the manual.  Kind of busy with Paulo right now though.

what a handsome man  . 

[anniebc]

I must send you a picture of my hundred year old, 14k hand engraved, white gold with large ruby men's ring handed down to me from my grandfather!  I wear it all of the time and it's my favorite possession in the world.

Amethyst is my birth stone but I much prefer a ruby.

That I would like to see..but you do know a Ruby is not a Ruby unless it's a Blood Red Ruby.

Aroha
Jan

[Miss Philicia]

That I would like to see..but you do know a Ruby is not a Ruby unless it's a Blood Red Ruby.

Aroha
Jan

Trust me dear, it's not pink.

Also the gem is only cut on the underside so the exposed part of the ring is actually flat.  But really it's the hand engraving on the white gold that makes this piece special IMHO.  I always get remarks on it too, in fact just last week someone did so when I met her for dinner and drinks (friend from out of town).

I've taken it to be cleaned at a jeweler but I've not had an official appraisal done. I wonder how much that costs. Not like I'm shelling out for insurance on it anyway, though I probably should.  I also have a gold pocket watch that was my great uncle's.

[anniebc]

A ruby ring and a gold poket watch, well Miss P I think it's very selfish of you to keep them when they could bring in a tidy sum, they should be sold and the money used so you can go out and treat everyone...you know it's the right thing to do..and you know you want to...just saying.

Failing that have you made out a will yet and do you know how to spell my name.. .

Aroha
Jan

[Jeff G]

A ruby ring and a gold poket watch, well Miss P I think it's very selfish of you to keep them when they could bring in a tidy sum, they should be sold and the money used so you can go out and treat everyone...you know it's the right thing to do..and you know you want to...just saying.

Failing that have you made out a will yet and do you know how to spell my name.. .

Aroha
Jan

I have my own personal museum he can donate them to and I can promise that they will be shown regularly 

[Miss Philicia]

A ruby ring and a gold poket watch, well Miss P I think it's very selfish of you to keep them when they could bring in a tidy sum, they should be sold and the money used so you can go out and treat everyone...you know it's the right thing to do..and you know you want to...just saying.

Failing that have you made out a will yet and do you know how to spell my name.. .

Aroha
Jan

If you think you're getting my Arne Jacobsen/Stelton coffee and tea set think again!

And all of you would be appalled to know that in 20 years of an AIDS diagnosis I've never prepared a will, nor do I have a medical directive or power of attorney.

[leatherman]

And all of you would be appalled to know that in 20 years of an AIDS diagnosis I've never prepared a will, nor do I have a medical directive or power of attorney.

I can understand no will (you have to have "stuff" and want it to go to certain people), and even a POA (or medical POA) since you're single, but I am surprised (rather than appalled) that you have no advanced medical directive

[Miss Philicia]

I can understand no will (you have to have "stuff" and want it to go to certain people), and even a POA (or medical POA) since you're single, but I am surprised (rather than appalled) that you have no advanced medical directive

I should have a will anyway -- once my parents pass away I will come into a tidy inheritance. I should have a durable power of attorney so if I'm laid up in a hospital my older brother can pay my utilities bill and rent from my checking account.  Actually my checking account has my father's name on it now so that can be done in a pinch -- I just put him on it last month.  Yes, I should have an advanced medical directive in case I'm hit by a taxi and become a Shiavo vegetable.

Alas, I'm a slacker about such stuff. I'll get around to it eventually.

[leatherman]

Alas, I'm a slacker about such stuff. I'll get around to it eventually.

After my first partner passed away and made all my paperwork null and void as he had been the beneficiary, I put off dealing with it for years too. However since my labwork was handled by a hospital lab in Ohio, every time I walked in the door they asked about a living will. When that drove me crazy as an unhandled piece of paperwork, I finally tackled it. That weekend, I made my second partner fill out papers and all my friends too. They thought I was crazy, but we all took care of this important paperwork. When my second partner went into the hospital I was glad for and used his paperwork, and a year later when one of my friend's mom went into the hospital, he was glad to have and used her paperwork too.

Don't wait too long.  you never know when cancer or a heart attack will strike, or when that taxi with your name on it will coming whizzing down the street. 

[elf]

Naw, it's just cuz the Evil Eurosocialists are skimping.

But these are recommendations.
If an HIV+ person wants to start the treatment right away, s/he can ''persuade'' his/her
doctor and start taking meds even with high CD4 (of 1000 or so).

[sharkdiver]

After my first partner passed away and made all my paperwork null and void as he had been the beneficiary, I put off dealing with it for years too. However since my labwork was handled by a hospital lab in Ohio, every time I walked in the door they asked about a living will. When that drove me crazy as an unhandled piece of paperwork, I finally tackled it. That weekend, I made my second partner fill out papers and all my friends too. They thought I was crazy, but we all took care of this important paperwork. When my second partner went into the hospital I was glad for and used his paperwork, and a year later when one of my friend's mom went into the hospital, he was glad to have and used her paperwork too.

Don't wait too long.  you never know when cancer or a heart attack will strike, or when that taxi with your name on it will coming whizzing down the street. 

Hopefully you know now that all the Do-it-yourself paperwork doesn't mean crap.

[phildinftlaudy]

Hopefully you know now that all the Do-it-yourself paperwork doesn't mean crap.

Except, perhaps, in the case of the Living Will/Advance Directive.  My father had done one upon admission to the hospital in March (in addition to verbally making his wishes known to us throughout the years) - When the docs met with us regarding his condition being "gravely ill." We pulled out the living will he had completed and signed.  The docs looked at is carefully and said, you all understand what  this mean - which we did... they then said that given his condition and the living will they would be moving him to hospice - as there was nothing else they could do that would not be in violation of his wishes.  We were able to move him to the hospice and he was able to pass away in comfort - and we were able to let him go in good conscience knowing that his wishes had been followed - there was no "in-fighting" among family - we each knew his wishes and had the paperwork in writing showing no feeding tubes, breathing devices to prolong life, etc once his condition was known to be terminal.

[sharkdiver]

Except, perhaps, in the case of the Living Will/Advance Directive.  My father had done one upon admission to the hospital in March (in addition to verbally making his wishes known to us throughout the years) - When the docs met with us regarding his condition being "gravely ill." We pulled out the living will he had completed and signed.  The docs looked at is carefully and said, you all understand what  this mean - which we did... they then said that given his condition and the living will they would be moving him to hospice - as there was nothing else they could do that would not be in violation of his wishes.  We were able to move him to the hospice and he was able to pass away in comfort - and we were able to let him go in good conscience knowing that his wishes had been followed - there was no "in-fighting" among family - we each knew his wishes and had the paperwork in writing showing no feeding tubes, breathing devices to prolong life, etc once his condition was known to be terminal.

This is true.   
fucking flashbacks...
didn't mean to drag my late partner's issues into this... more stuff to talk with my therapist about I guess.

anyways....

[leatherman]

Hopefully you know now that all the Do-it-yourself paperwork doesn't mean crap.

that wasn't my experience at all.

my do-it-yourself medical power of attorney for both partners was, sadly, very much needed, worked both times, and was a godsend to have in my position as I was, in the end, forced by the situations to make drastic medical decisions, and even end-of-life decisions. The mPOAs and living wills were the most important papers either partner ever signed. Of course, I need to give some props to the two close friends who werea around both times to sign as witnesses, verfiying the documents, as we didn't have a notary on hand either time.

I haven't had a chance to try out the power of my do-it-yourself living will/advance medical directive, and hope it's not needed for quite some time.

[Basquo]

Holographic wills can be valid in Texas:  http://www.fordmath.com/legal-practice-areas/texas-wills/handwritten-will-texas

But back to the topic I don't take HAART because I don't need it (yet.) Going on 12 years.

[Buckmark]

Not like I'm shelling out for insurance on it anyway, though I probably should.  I also have a gold pocket watch that was my great uncle's.

You should consider insurance.  Especially since everyone on the internet now knows that you have a fabulous ruby ring and gold pocket way.       Your future ex-boyfriend could be stalking you right now, waiting to pounce on you and your valuables.

[ruralguy]

I'm half of a discordant couple.  For me, the knowledge that I am, for all practical purposes, not contagious is a huge relief.  The emotional value of letting go of the worry about infecting my partner is a major portion of the value of the drug (atripla) and drives me to be 100% compliant in taking it.  I never forget it.  Not taking it means endangering my partner.  That was the important point of the research for me. 

I would like to know if the 1 infection that did occur was due to non-compliance or not, but in either case it would not change my mind. 

Maybe, just maybe, knowing you can be well and not infectious, will mean more people will ge tested and more will take their meds correctly.  I would hope that is the case.

As for the societal benefit, it would seem logical that decreasing the number of new infections will ultimately mean lower cost health care.  I don't know that individuals would care, but a government might.  Just a thought.