POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: MrDD on February 23, 2007, 08:24:00 am
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First off, I would like to compliment you on this fantastic forum, it seems there is finally a forum that gives honest and compassionate answers, without forcing moral issues on people that are in distress, so well done!!!
Now, for my question: I am concerned about my risk, and would appreciate your input. I was working in my garage, and injured myself by sticking a piece of wire into my index finger. It bled for about a minute. I carried on working. I then cleaned the injury under water about 10 minutes later. It did not bleed again.
The problem, about 3 and a half days later, I wend to a strip club. The stripper got a little carried away, and during her lap dance, took my hand, and then started to rub her naked vagina. She did this for about a minute.
The circumstances: 1. The cut had not bled since the injury occured, was not sore any more, had no visible scab but mainly an indent in the skin, however it was still visible. 2.She did not insert my fingers into her vagina, merely rubbed the outer area and near the opening, not inside. 3. She did lick her finger and then rub her vagina, so it felt moist at some stage, but cannot tell if it was saliva or vaginalsecretions.
Questions: 1. what is my risk in this situation of contracting HIV?
2. would 3 and a half days been enough for the injury to heal in order to prevent transmission?
3. what vaginal secretions are infectious....all or mainly cervical?
4. would you recommend testing in my case?
5. what would you term an open or fresh wound, that would allow infection/transmission to occur?
Your answer would be greatly appreciated, I am battling to deal with this and am frightened beyond belief. thanks.
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DD, you need to read our Transmission lesson. There's a link to it in the Welcome thread which opens this section. You get all the basics there about what is genuinely risky and what isn't.
You absolutely weren't at risk in this finger thingie and lap top fingering incident, well at least not other than theoretically. Theoretically anything other than self-masturbation can carry some risk. But in the real world of HIV transmission doesn't happen in the manner you are concerned about.
HIV is a fragile virus and not easily transmitted. Nicks, cuts, abrasions and other common events on fingers and other body parts simply don't provide the kind of receptivity which HIV requires. We'd have known long before today if such conditions were factors to consider in relation to transmission. But there are no documented cases of transmission from fingering. You aren't going to make history by becoming the first. Y
You also made a reference to cervical secretions, which would be a matter of concern IF the woman you were with was actually HIV positive. Fingering her labia would not put you into contact with her cervical area which is way further up.
And that's IF she was positive. In fact your whole concern is really structured on a lot if ifs. Which is not a good place to hang around in. Get the basics down from the Transmission lesson and then you won't have to wander around in IFs.
There's no need for testing nor for further concern about HIV in relation to this incident.
Cheers,
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Thank you for this. Really appreciate the answer and I feel a bit better now. One other question if I may...I have read that there are there certain areas on the body that have more CD4 receptors (not sure if my terminology is correct), which HIV is required to attach to in order for infection to occur. ie. do the fingers contain there receptors, and if so, are there many or few, or am I totally incorrect in what I am asking? And also, how much vaginal secretion would one have to come into contact with, via a cut, in order to become infected? In your oppinion, would my injury have healed enough over a 3 day period to have not been a risk for fluids to have infected or entered it?
Sorry, I won't go on and on about this, would just like some clarification, I do accept that my risk was non existant from what you have stated.
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MrDD
I can state with certainty that your finger injury would NOT have been a vector for HIV transmission in the manner your outlined.
Here's the link that Andy was referring to.
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9960.shtml (http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9960.shtml)
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Mr,
I can state with certainty that 411 made a typo in his post above. He meant to say that he "can state with certainty that your finger injury would NOT have been a vector for HIV transmission in the manner your outlined."
You didn't have a risk.
Ann
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Thank You Ann......panicked there for a moment!!! :)
411, please check 100% before posting, you had me confused an panicky there for a moment, but thanks for the input :)
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can some on tell me??? can you have most of the text book symptoms manifest 2 days after testing and the test show up FALSE NEG - i was tested 45 days after possible exposure and 2 days later (47) had awlful symptoms/ but on day 52 I was told my test was NEG and all symptoms left me within hours. Today, one day after i was notified, i feel GREAT? please give me some knowldege/ comfort/ thanks
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billydon, reread the guidelines on posting in this forum. Do not post in other peoples thread. Keep all your posts in YOUR orginal thread.
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Billy,
You need to start your own thread. Please stop posting in threads others have started.
You'll find a NEW TOPIC button at the top of the Am I Infected (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?board=1.0) contents page. Please read the Welcome Thread before posting.
Ann
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Thanks for covering my six there Ann, 'cause she's right MrDD, I've fixed the post and all I can say is that sometimes the brain outpaces the fingers.
please check 100% before posting,
yea, I deserved that,...since you were so nice about it :)
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No problem 411 always nice :)....sorry, been off line for a while and did not reply. May I ask a few more questions, more to learn more about transmission. I have read the lesson, but have some more in depth questions. I feel a whole lot better about the incident after hearing your answers, but would just like to become a little more informed. Any of you may respond...thanks :)
1. Are there differences between normal vaginal secretions and cervical vaginal secretions? If so, what are the differences and is one more infectious than the other?
2. Are cuts/abrasions on your fingers less likely to be susceptable to transmission due to the fact that there are few receptacles on them or in them, than other parts of the body? or am I getting this all wrong?
3. When a person refers to an open cut, do you mean open/bleeding, or once it has stopped bleeding and formed a scab, would it be termed as "safe" from transmission?
4. Can you find cervical vaginal secretions at the opening of the vagina or on the labia? If yes, would they still be infectious being outside the vagina or not?
5. In South Africa, the PCR test is used as the best test, however it is very expensive and therefore not used extensively. If you can afford it though, you can have it and it is said to be the most accurate. Do you agree with this?
Sorry if my questions seem very in depth, but would really like to learn more about my "Scary" experience, and really put it to bed for good. I also don't want to run out and test unnecessarily, and in so waste resources and peoples time :)
Once again, thanks for all the great advice/info. and your patience.
MrDD
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Hi Ann, Andy, 411......not sure if I posted incorrectly, nobody has answered, but may I have some answers to my last post in this string (The one above this one). thanks MrDD
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Hi Ann, Andy, 411......not sure if I posted incorrectly, nobody has answered, but may I have some answers to my last post in this string (copied below). thanks MrDD
May I ask a few more questions, more to learn more about transmission. I have read the lesson, but have some more in depth questions. I feel a whole lot better about the incident after hearing your answers, but would just like to become a little more informed. Any of you may respond...thanks
1. Are there differences between normal vaginal secretions and cervical vaginal secretions? If so, what are the differences and is one more infectious than the other?
2. Are cuts/abrasions on your fingers less likely to be susceptable to transmission due to the fact that there are few receptacles on them or in them, than other parts of the body? or am I getting this all wrong?
3. When a person refers to an open cut, do you mean open/bleeding, or once it has stopped bleeding and formed a scab, would it be termed as "safe" from transmission?
4. Can you find cervical vaginal secretions at the opening of the vagina or on the labia? If yes, would they still be infectious being outside the vagina or not?
5. Can I confidently carry on with my sex life with my wife after this incident? I would hate to put her in harms way, the whole lapdance episode was completely out of character for me, and REALLY caught me off gaurd, not going there any time soon.....ever!!!
6. In South Africa, the PCR test is used as the best test, however it is very expensive and therefore not used extensively. If you can afford it though, you can have it and it is said to be the most accurate. Do you agree with this?
Sorry if my questions seem very in depth, but would really like to learn more about my "Scary" experience, and really put it to bed for good. I also don't want to run out and test unnecessarily, and in so waste resources and peoples time
Once again, thanks for all the great advice/info. and your patience.
MrDD
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DD,
1. The vaginal fluids you feel on the outside of the vagina are produced in two glands on either side of the vaginal opening. Their purpose is to produce lubrication for intercourse. "Cervicovaginal" fluids are found covering the cervix. It is a thick mucus and its purpose is to protect the cervical opening to the womb. It stays in place on the cervix. While the cervicovaginal fluids have been shown to be infectious, I cannot find one scrap of evidence that shows the lubrication fluid to be any more infectious than sweat or tears - and they are not infectious. This is supported by the fact that no one has even been proven to become infected through cunnilingus or frottage, acts which brings a person into contact with the lubrication fluid, but not the cervicovaginal fluid.
2. Cuts and abrasions do not have the type of cells present that hiv needs in order to infect. It is only when it is a fresh, deep cut where there is direct access to the bloodstream where there is any (even then, remote) chance of infection.
3. See #2.
4. See #1. Also, hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that quickly becomes damaged and unable to infect once it is outside the body.
5. Yes, you can carry on having sex with your wife with complete confidence. You were not at risk for hiv in any way, shape or form during the lapdance.
6. We do NOT recommend PCR testing here as they have a high rate of FALSE positive results. All that is needed is a standard antibody test. A test at three months - after an actual risk, which you did not have - is considered conclusive.
You didn't have a risk and it's time you put this behind you and got on with your life - and get it on with your wife.
Ann
edited to correct a glaring typo.
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Hi Ann,
Thanks a Million for your response, you are a wealth of knowledge for a desperate person like myself. I searched myself silly on the topics mentioned throughout the web, but could not really find conclusive answers, rather completely conflicting ones which made me panic even more. Your facts and information seem to all be based on proper research and carefull checking, so it must be sound advice :).Therefore, I think that I have received conclusively, enough information to put this to bed, and I am going to try my damndest to forget about this and carry on. I had to re-check, and who knows, might check again in a moment of weakness, where I hope you will humour me once again, but just wanted to ensure that this really out of character/stupid incident would not put my family in harms way. I have learnt from this, even though as you say it was a NO RISK situation, it was enough to scare the living daylights out of me, and will not be "lapdancing" around again, finger or no finger :)
Once again, thank you, and I will try not to bother any more, but please humour me if I do, certain OCD characteristics might surface :)
MrDD
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MrDD
Ann gave you such a great answer that all I would be doing is following in her wake as I've got nothing else to add. I will reaffirm that fact that you did not have a risk and I wish you could accept rather than pursuing these other lines of thinking. Ever hear the adage that a little knowledge is dangerous? I'm not trying to be condescending but rather save you a pile of grief and unnecessary anxiety.
If you'd had a risk you would have been advised, not counselled to the contrary. I find it ever perplexing that someone will read something, adopt it to fit their perceptions and doubt the answers when they don't fit their preconceived notions.
Don't get a PCR, it isn't warranted and would be another source of anxiety for a no risk situation.
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Hi there,
Did something really stupid recently and would like to know what my risk exposure is please.
I was on a trip overseas, and invited a girl to my room.
She proceded to give me a massage, normal type full body massage, she was also naked. She the proceded to give me a handjob. She used cream to lubricate, sat in front of me and masturbated me with her hands. She also gently stimulated my anal region with her fingers while masturbating me.
So, in summary...
She....gave me a handjob, stimulated my anus and gave me a massage, all using cream as a lubricant.
I.....stroked her breasts, sucked her nipples and touched my penis as well, at no stage did I touch her vagina, and neither did she.
I would like to know.
What are my chances of contracting HIV through the above situation(s)?
What are my chances of contracting an STD other than HIV from the above, especially from the anal fingering? and if yes, which ones should I worry about?
Does the fact that she probably has sex with many men every night increase my risk, as she was a "working girl"?
Do I need to test regarding the above, or can I leave this as a stupid incident and try not go back there?
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
many thanks
MrDD
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DD,
I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
Once again, you did not have a risk in anything you bring to us, just like your worries last spring. Please re-read your entire thread, because there is nothing new to add with this new situation. Make sure you re-read the Transmission Lesson as well.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Although you do NOT need to test over this incident, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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Hi Ann, thanks for this.
One question you did not answer is, would I be at risk of contracting any other STI's in the situation, especially from the anal stimulation?
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DD,
It's very unlikely.
Ann
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Hi Ann, sorry to harp on this, but.....I have pretty much accepted that there was not way I could have contracted HIV from this experience. However, for some silly reason, still worried about the risk of contacting another form of STI. I have had no symptoms of any obvious STI's, however, the one I am particularly worried about is Hepatitis. So, not sure what your expertise on Hepatitis are, but could you tell me what my risk, if any would have been, to contract Hepatitis from the experience detailed in my latest post, especially pertaining to the Anal fingering. Can you catch hepatitis from Anal fingering, and if so, what would have to be present for it to occur?. You answer would be greatly appreciated.
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DD,
You weren't at risk for hepatitis either. If you cannot put this incident behind you, perhaps it's time you made an appointment with a mental health counselor. We cannot help you with your anxieties here.
Ann