POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: thunter34 on March 27, 2007, 01:02:28 pm
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I just heard this little bit on the local news. Went to the net to get more info. I swear, I am trying- I am trying to live at peace with the God Squad, but they make it very hard, ya know? Apparently, they feel that Steve Stanton's right to continue to do his job is trumped by their "right" not to have to call him Susan once he transitions. Despite general agreement that he has done a great job for the previous 14 years, those who spoke against him said that he couldn't maintain good faith with the community since he had been "deceitful". How he has been dishonest is beyond me. Isn't that what brought this sham out in the first place? Huh? His honesty? SHOCK ALERT: Most of the 60 people who spoke out against him were members of a local Baptist church. They said it would be a violation of their religious freedoms to have to address him by his future female name.
Calling all Christians: I Double Dog Dare you to show me a single passage in the Bible that addresses transgender issues. Name ONE.
And even if there was an entire Testament on the subject, it wouldn't make a drop of difference. Your Bible should not be used to dictate the laws of our land. That's a theocracy- you know...one of the things we are supposedly trying to liberate the Middle East from?
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=896 (http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=896)
Tim
(Who admits to being squarely on the side of the trans community.)
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Isn't there something about Mary Magdalene being a pre-op selling bj's at the Walls of Jerusalem.
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Isn't there something about Mary Magdalene being a pre-op selling bj's at the Walls of Jerusalem.
I missed that one in Sunday School, I guess. ;)
But to the issue:
I've been following this in the local gay newsrag. It's sad, very sad. And there's a woman who is facing jail time for "distributing fliers" and "violently resisting arrest" in all this mess.
But a part of me is pragmatic enough to know that there are some places in America today where simply being yourself is considered a hostile, provocative act. I grew up in such a place, as did most of you reading this. Instead of being a permanent pariah and risking daily assault, I moved twenty miles to a place where my mere presence wouldn't cause such a hateful response. All of my friends had done the same, with most moving a much greater distance in order to feel free to self-actualize.
It's a sad but true statement on our culture that the great heartland is a lonely, dangerous, hostile place for those who don't fit in. But there are places where diversity is welcomed if not exactly encouraged.
The full story of Nadine Smith's arrest is here:
http://justiceinlargo.com/
Brent
(Who heaves a heavy sigh)
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I know it's not much, but I sent e-mails of support to the mayor, Stanton, and the only other member of the council to support Stanton when this story broke a couple of weeks ago.
Of course the shitstirrer in me also sent notes to the other council members who voted against Stanton. They weren't as nice. ;)
From the St. Petersburg Times in Brent's linked page:
Officers had been instructed to stop the dissemination of fliers because they present a fire hazard and people can slip on them, said Largo police spokesman Mac McMullen.
WTF????
John
(who is down with the Trannies and wishes the local Largo Baptist community would go fuck themselves. repeatedly)
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Isn't there something about Mary Magdalene being a pre-op selling bj's at the Walls of Jerusalem.
::)
only in ones warped mind
The hatred for women and the bible around here is amazing
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Not all of us HATE the bible. And very VERY few dislike women, if anybody at all. (sexually speaking is a TOTALLY different story) The bible is an easy thing to despise however. And most around here SHOULD despise a book that was translated from a dead language by people who were unfamiliar with that language that calls them abominations and is used by the right as justification for discrimination!
We should probably steer away from religious talk. We dont want to awaken the damned one. (not to mention the rest of us!)
Andrew
(who thinks god is grown mans imaginary friend!)
For more information on the twisted ways of the "written word of god" please watch this horrifying documentary!
(http://desertpastor.typepad.com/paradoxology/images/jesus_camp2_1.jpg)
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I haven't noticed any hatred toward me. Almost everyone here has been nice and very supportive to me. And I am in the minority here. White, middle aged, Christian, HIV negative woman married to a HIV positive man. Not all Christians are bad. I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone here just as I wouldn't let anyone try to force theirs on me.
I love everyone here. You all have saved my sanity (whats left of it) more than once.
Hugs
Teresa
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You're sane?
Wow that changes EVERYTHING.
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well it depends on who you talk too...LOL
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We dont want to awaken the damned one.
Matty the Damned sees all.
MtD
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And there's a woman who is facing jail time for "distributing fliers" and "violently resisting arrest" in all this mess.
I'm not going to beat around the bush, here...WHAT FUCKERS! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I'm not going to beat around the bush, here...WHAT FUCKERS! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
This story has been a big issue here. And I don't believe it's over yet !! Largo is the next town just south of Clearwater. Lived there, when I first moved to Florida,in 1980. Glad I am the hell out of there. I don't even like driving through it !!
Ray
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I can't believe that this can still happen in the land of the free and the brave. I feel ashamed that this happens here. It is horrible, no human being should be subjected to such prejudice for trying to live an honest life. I hate the red state mentality. The truth is that there are relatively few places in this great land of ours where anyone who is "different" is really safe. It makes me want to boycott Florida, although I had a great time when I went to Orlando.
rob
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Not all Christians are bad. I would never try to force my beliefs on anyone here just as I wouldn't let anyone try to force theirs on me.
Thanks Teresa.
Once again crazy religious zealots give the rest of us a bad name. However the blame cannot be placed entirely on them. The ultimate decision came down to the elected officials, who didn't have the balls to do what was right.
Our leaders are going to have to stand up to the radical right, religious zealots and all other crazies of any faith and say enough is enough. One person's faith cannot dictate what is fair and just for all people.
Woods
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My new slogan:
"Your Red State Mentality makes me Blue."
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The hatred for women and the bible around here is amazing
Wait... where's the misogyny on this forum?
I must have missed it.
Calling all broads! You feel welcome here, right?
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Wait... where's the misogyny on this forum?
I must have missed it.
Calling all broads! You feel welcome here, right?
I would hope they would! I can name 3 or 4 at least right off the top of my head that I'm nuts about & have publicly fawned over....Jan, Queen, SwedeDish....I'll add Nadine to that and Tigger, too! She's my latest female fancy. I'm sure there are others I'm just not thinking of at the moment. If there are ladies here who aren't feeling welcome, I really hope they do come forward and say so. That's an issue that needs rectifying immediately- but I really don't think it exists at all on here.
The anti-Bible thing is admittedly more wide-spread, but gee....I wonder why that could be?
PS- I have a great love of women. Even women who used to be men.
PPS- "Broads"? What? Not "dames"? ;)
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Yeah... I have a problem with books that have been used to call me evil and stuff.
Just speaking personally.
And "broad" is so much of a cooler term. ;)
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Yeah... I have a problem with books that have been used to call me evil and stuff.
Just speaking personally.
And "broad" is so much of a cooler term. ;)
Yeah. Let's see....the usual pattern (from birth) is to teach the following:
You're sinful
Immoral
Unnatural
Unfit for society
Unfit for Heaven once you die
Unsafe to work around food......AIDS !!
Unsafe to work around kids.......Molestation (and AIDS !!)
Unsafe to teach younsters........Homo Recruitment / Gay, Godless Agenda, Molestation (.....and AIDS !!)
Undeserving of job protections......beacause that would be giving you "special rights".
Undeserving of housing protection.....because moral people shouldn't have to be around you (and protection=special rights)
Deserving of disease......because that's what you get for "choosing" to live and act against the will of God.
Throwing your sexuality "in their face" if you dare not hide in shame.
Promiscuous...though the mere whisper of anything approaching a "traditionalization" of these relationships is met with nothing less than shouts of Constitutional Amendments.
Prone to addiction and depression.....gee, I wonder what might prompt such a pattern as that?
Gay people are subjected to a systematic pattern of psychological abuse- taught guilt and to be ashamed and afraid of themselves. This indoctrinization is primarily religious based. No? Try taking Biblical/Christian ideology out of the mix when weighing arguments against us and see how much you can come up with that is left. That gutting of self-esteem can lead to all kinds of self-destructive behavior and poor choices. And when these things manifest in some of us, those that smack us across the face with the Good Book dare to then hold up examples of unhappiness and say:
"You see? You see how unhappy these people are?"
Even without AIDS, I sometimes marvel that as many of us make it as do. And this is not me trying to sound whiney. This is me sounding rather pissed and fed up with it.
So I have prescious little sympathy when anyone steps forth to bemoan the poor way Christians and the Bible are treated.
::steps down from soapbox::
Wow. Hey, thanks for reading. Don't know about you guys (and gals), but I feel great now. Time for a snack.
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Hear hear!
That was beautiful, Tim!
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In other Trannie news from Florida. (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/03/27/sexchange.alimony.ap/index.html)
MtD
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Tim, I cannot argue with anything you just said in post 18. However there are beacons of light out there. I attend a Southern Baptist (just barely) who accepts all believers. We have a female associate pastor, my ex was a staff member and I am a deacon as well as Sunday School teacher and hold several other leadership positions. We have an active membership of 350-400. It is a wonderful place that has allowed many people that have been treated the way you describe in your post to heal and get reaquainted with God. Unfortunately I realize we are a minority, but we are here trying to make a difference.
Woods
edited to add post #
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I am a deacon
So Woods, given that you're a member of the Deaconite in your church, how do you reconcile the "clobber passages" in the New Testament? Especially Pauls position on homosexuality as expressed in II Corinthians?
I understand that the Southern Baptists have a very clear interpretation of this.
MtD
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In other Trannie news from Florida. (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/03/27/sexchange.alimony.ap/index.html)
MtD
Yeah. I read that earlier today. From the article....
The judge poked holes in several of Roach's legal arguments and noted that appeals courts have declined to legally recognize a sex change in Florida when it comes to marriage. The appellate court "is telling us you are what you are when you are born," St. Arnold said.
Funny how these decisions can come back to bite ya in the ass.
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I don't find a need to belong to organized religion. To me it is just for soft brained people who don't want to think, or for truly egotistical people who actually think that there is someone upstairs making sure their idiot kid makes it on the honor roll, or that thieir daughter doesn't come home pregnant from the prom.
rob
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Hey woodsy, would your church chums still love you if they knew you love bucko's butt busting porn? Does your sunday school class call you Mr. Fister? You are straight out of South Park. Sorry, butt I think it is christianity not fistianity.
Just Sayin'
"BUMPED - cause The Spin Cycle is worth checking out.
Brent, when I first started reading your TSC I was hoping for some good jack off material. However I came away with much more than that. Your chapters are not only erotic, but thought provoking. Just great stuff!!! Thanks for sharing and I anxiously await the next chapter."
Woods
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For what it's worth:
Although I may have a pretty large chip on my shoulder about organized religion- especially when it comes to the conflict between their predominent teachings and homosexuality- I appreciate the spirit in which Woods' hand was extended. If there is any redemption to be found for the institution, it will come from such efforts at kindness.
Tim
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I am a deacon
So Woods, given that you're a member of the Deaconite in your church, how do you reconcile the "clobber passages" in the New Testament? Especially Pauls position on homosexuality as expressed in II Corinthians?
I understand that the Southern Baptists have a very clear interpretation of this.
MtD
First off MtD, I am definitely not a theologian. It is my personal belief that the Bible is not the word of God, but the inspired word of God. Meaning the men who wrote the various books added their interpretation, just like religions of today. Some books were written many, many years after the event actually took place and passed from generation to generation. Meaning the details were certain to have changed over the years, but the central message remained the same. I also think one must look at the times in which the letters of Paul were written. I am more familiar with Paul's writings to the Romans, than his second letter to the Corinthians. When Paul was in Rome and said something to the effect men should not lay with men, at that time it was customary for older to men to have sex with boys. Often times it was prostitution. Could Paul have been saying that that was wrong and never been addressing the love between two men? I am not a smart man and struggle with much of my religion, but I believe the Bible is ever changing and living. It is a series of stories told throughout centuries. Some are of the historic nature but many are a guide to living a life of joy and goodness. Do I believe every word, most certainly not. Do I believe in the message of love, justice and grace most definitely.
Just my 2 cents,
Woods
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To me it is just for soft brained people who don't want to think, or for truly egotistical people who actually think that there is someone upstairs making sure their idiot kid makes it on the honor roll, or that thieir daughter doesn't come home pregnant from the prom.
I am sure the attorneys, doctors, teachers, elected officials and other professional members of my church will be happy to learn they are soft brained and don't want to think. I am also sure they know the only person responsible for their child making the honor role is their child and what happens after prom is up to their daughter.
Hey woodsy, would your church chums still love you if they knew you love bucko's butt busting porn? Does your sunday school class call you Mr. Fister? You are straight out of South Park. Sorry, butt I think it is christianity not fistianity.
Just Sayin'
"BUMPED - cause The Spin Cycle is worth checking out.
Brent, when I first started reading your TSC I was hoping for some good jack off material. However I came away with much more than that. Your chapters are not only erotic, but thought provoking. Just great stuff!!! Thanks for sharing and I anxiously await the next chapter."
Woods
I was certain after my post to Tim's insightful post 18 that I would be attacked.
I will be the first to say there are some crazy ass people out their who use their religion to hurt and suppress others. I am not one of those and when I do state there are those who believe differently I get your above response.
Let me explain, I am a Christian who is sexual and enjoys good writing, regardless of the subject. And if I am not mistaken I never said what my sexual preferences were, you simply implied you knew. To that I say thank you, because not only would I be thought of as a follower of Bucko's writing, but also a follower of his sexual practices. And a little mystery as to what I am into and not into is always nice.
Woods
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First off MtD, I am definitely not a theologian. It is my personal belief that the Bible is not the word of God, but the inspired word of God. Meaning the men who wrote the various books added their interpretation, just like religions of today. Some books were written many, many years after the event actually took place and passed from generation to generation. Meaning the details were certain to have changed over the years, but the central message remained the same. I also think one must look at the times in which the letters of Paul were written. I am more familiar with Paul's writings to the Romans, than his second letter to the Corinthians. When Paul was in Rome and said something to the effect men should not lay with men, at that time it was customary for older to men to have sex with boys. Often times it was prostitution. Could Paul have been saying that that was wrong and never been addressing the love between two men? I am not a smart man and struggle with much of my religion, but I believe the Bible is ever changing and living. It is a series of stories told throughout centuries. Some are of the historic nature but many are a guide to living a life of joy and goodness. Do I believe every word, most certainly not. Do I believe in the message of love, justice and grace most definitely.
Just my 2 cents,
Woods
Cheers for the response, Woods.
Gay christians have always been a subject of some interest to Matty the Damned, ever since he started investigating the horrid twilight world of the ex-gays. He is aware that ex-gays are quite different from the Pansies for Christ movement.
Sometime back I wrote a blog article on my experiences when I infiltrated a nest of gay christians I discovered on the Net. Should the fancy seize, you can click here to relive the glory that was my time in GCN. (http://thespincycle.blogspot.com/2006/07/queerer-than-thou.html)
Still, it fascinates me to learn that you're a SoBap and also a cleric in that particular denomination. If you were an episcopalian, a united methodist, an American Baptist or (Larry Kramer forbid) a member of the MCC I could kind of get it.
But a SoBap?
I appreciate that Baptist congregations have a fair degree of autonomy, but I always understood that there were a few basic tenents that the Southern Baptist Convention required it's churches to adhere to, including a fundamentalist interpretation of the scriptures, support for creationism over evolution and an iron clad rejection of all forms of "sexual immorality" of which homosexuality is at the head of the list.
It's interesting to learn then that this may not be the case in the SBC.
Regards,
MtD
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Thanks for the great response matty. I will definitely check out the link.
As I said we are barely an SBC congregation, basically through giving to the state convention on behalf of mission projects. There once were many moderate Baptist churches in the SBC, but from the late 80's to the mid 90's the extreme conservatives took over the convention and started this fundie movement. Most moderate churches have left to form what is known as the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF), but a few of us are still in the Southern Baptist Convention as well as the CBF, primarily on the state level, trying to bring about some sanity to the madness that prevails. I am sure it is only a matter of time til we are kicked out of our state convention.
best to you,
Woods
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Tim,
Here is a member of the Anabaptist church of America, a (get this) "reformed homosexual"! He claims he can solve all of our problems... The question is, Is he fake or just plain dumb and dangerous? Some say he is a transexual!
Again, only in America can you see this.
Donnie Davies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Davies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Davies)
Val
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I don't find a need to belong to organized religion. To me it is just for soft brained people who don't want to think, or for truly egotistical people who actually think that there is someone upstairs making sure their idiot kid makes it on the honor roll, or that thieir daughter doesn't come home pregnant from the prom.
rob
Hey woodsy, would your church chums still love you if they knew you love bucko's butt busting porn? Does your sunday school class call you Mr. Fister? You are straight out of South Park. Sorry, butt I think it is christianity not fistianity.
Just Sayin'
Rob,
We would not allow some religious fundie to come into these forums and bash you, so why do you think it's ok for you to insult, with your broad brush and false assumptions, people who have religious convictions? Not every Christian (or Muslim for that matter) is a fundamentalist. Knock it off and go learn some tolerance. And yes, you can consider this a warning.
Ann
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I can certainly understand why Rob's comments to Woodshere may be perceived as harsh.
However, nothing is quite as harsh, in my humble opion, as the bloodshed and brutality that freely flows from the bloody and violent three religions, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. These religions practice violence in their quest for world spiritual domination. All three religions have histories replete with genocide and horrific violence. I could make a list, but no matter how exhaustive, it would be incomplete as these religions have been so thorough in the terror that issues from their teachings.
I get tired of the excuses everybody uses to candy-coat the poison that these so called religions are responsible for. Until the violence that stems from the fruit of this poisonous tree, the deadly three subsides, I will continue to express my disdain for these religions and the individuals who are complicit in the violence their religions are responsible for. I consider those who make excuses for these religions to at least be acting as enablers for the more extreme elements within their fold.
Rob's point, as I see it was asking why anyone would want to be a member of a group that so explicitely and violently attacks gays and lesbians, and anyone else not "baaaaahing" in unison with the other sheeple, er, I mean people.
Respectfully, and with respect for all living creatures,
Scott
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Tim,
Here is a member of the Anabaptist church of America, a (get this) "reformed homosexual"! He claims he can solve all of our problems... The question is, Is he fake or just plain dumb and dangerous? Some say he is a transexual!
Again, only in America can you see this.
Donnie Davies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Davies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Davies)
Val
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Val-
Honey, where ya been? We heard the word from Donnie Davies tent meetings ago! ;D
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8184.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=8184.0)
It would seem my little thread has, er...."transitioned" into a full-on discussion of religion. Fine by me.
Perhaps it's just becoming what it was really meant to be. ;)
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Sorry, I don't keep up with all the threads! ::) Someone told me this before! I don't know how you guys do it, but I just cannot read all of it.
Val
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Few threads about religion and penis will escape my attention. :o
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I can certainly understand why Rob's comments to Woodshere may be perceived as harsh.
However, nothing is quite as harsh, in my humble opion, as the bloodshed and brutality that freely flows from the bloody and violent three religions, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. These religions practice violence in their quest for world spiritual domination. All three religions have histories replete with genocide and horrific violence. I could make a list, but no matter how exhaustive, it would be incomplete as these religions have been so thorough in the terror that issues from their teachings.
I get tired of the excuses everybody uses to candy-coat the poison that these so called religions are responsible for. Until the violence that stems from the fruit of this poisonous tree, the deadly three subsides, I will continue to express my disdain for these religions and the individuals who are complicit in the violence their religions are responsible for. I consider those who make excuses for these religions to at least be acting as enablers for the more extreme elements within their fold.
Rob's point, as I see it was asking why anyone would want to be a member of a group that so explicitely and violently attacks gays and lesbians, and anyone else not "baaaaahing" in unison with the other sheeple, er, I mean people.
Respectfully, and with respect for all living creatures,
Scott
I freely admit that religion has been used and still is used by some in the ways you mentioned. I continue to say that all are not like that. There are many religious people that are taking stands against the war in Iraq, that work for equality and justice for all people including the G&L population. Because there some religious people that bash gays & lesbians should I give up my religion. That would be the equivalent of me leaving the US since I disagree with the war that we are waging rather than try to make a difference as a citizen.
I am by no means a Bible thumper and fully respect a person's right to not believe. And I am definitely not trying to preach or convert. I am simply pointing out that there are some Christians that are different from those described throughout this thread.
It' funny, among many Christians I as a gay man am subjected to harsh judgement. Among many homosexuals I as a Christian am subjected to harsh judgement. It almost seems like there is no where to go. But fortunately I have a place where I can be a gay Christian.
Woods
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I've noticed that, hun! ;D And I guess I finally have found the solution for this little problem of mine! I mean, keeping up with all these threads. Indeed, I know someone in these forums who knows everything there is to know about all the threads; who knows everything about just about everyone and so on.
To give you an idea, he can tell with an extrememely precise accuracy even who's top, and who's bottom in these forums...! ::) Next time, I'll check with him/her before posting!
Val
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Funny you mentioned this.
My Dad was a deacon in the methodist church in the early 1960s. He and his wife and my older brother were charter members of a local church and all that. Of course, this was in the heady younger days of the church, before the literalists and crazies took it over. At the time, Methodists were the easygoing golf-playing liberal members of the church.
That started to change in the 1970s, but it seriously took hold in the 80s. When I came out to my folks in 1981 or so, it was already a nasty little viper pit for suburban elitists and anti-abortion, andti-gay rights people. And the Methodist church was no exception.
Years later, I asked my folks why they no longer went to church (I was busy going to college and stuff, and really did not notice their attendance had dwindled, then vanished). My dad put it simply:
He said that he could not worship a god that would ask him to reject his son. Period.
Interestingly, they both remained, and Mom remains, very spiritual. And very "christian" in that they followed the tenets of Jesus Christ (as opposed to the tenets of Paul or others). So my beef is never with Xtians. It's with Selective Literalists. And with those who disagree with them, but allow themselves to be intimidated into watching their religion perverted.
I read a great book about the rise of fundamentalism in the USA in the last hundred years. And really, it's been less than that. It's called "Stealing Jesus; How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity." Good stuff.
That having been said, I fear that Xtianity as a philosophical concept is in real danger because of the extremists who have taken it over at all levels. And I think that's sad.
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I am so ambivalent about religion. I watch a little girl on Jesus Camp speak in tongues and feel abject horror. At the same time I feel empathy for the human yearning for something more.
Ultimately, I strongly feel that it is incumbent upon everyone to question their paradigm. For me, there is comfort and truth in doubting the rightness of one's beliefs.
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I am so ambivalent about religion. I watch a little girl on Jesus Camp speak in tongues and feel abject horror. At the same time I feel empathy for the human yearning for something more.
Ultimately, I strongly feel that it is incumbent upon everyone to question their paradigm. For me, there is comfort and truth in doubting the rightness of one's beliefs.
No kidding. It strikes me as rather irreverent to not question these things.
For what it's worth, I have a sort of tie-in thread (Doom Town) in OT. Just in case anyone's interested. Kind of a spin-off of where this one has gone.
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Ultimately, I strongly feel that it is incumbent upon everyone to question their paradigm. For me, there is comfort and truth in doubting the rightness of one's beliefs.
Totally agree. Perhaps that's why I am always looking up science stuff.
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A true scientist is the quintessential doubter and the first to accept a change in paradigm with nothing less than excitement. I think that this attitude brings a lot of peace when questioning what exactly the nature of the universe is. For me, the answer is always "i don't know..."
It just seems that people who are really certain about 'the truth' are frequently rabidly intolerant. It's so easy to "otherize" once you are convinced you know the difference between right and wrong. To quote 'Jesus Camp'/.... there are two types of people... those who believe in Jesus and those who don't. They are going to Hell." (although you could easily say that "Religion is the opiate of the masses" is an equally black and white quote.)
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"Subjectivity is objective."
-Love and Death
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(although you could easily say that "Religion is the opiate of the masses" is an equally black and white quote.)
Indeed it would be easy to dismiss this misquote of Marx, but you would be wrong if you did. The misquoted line in question is in fact taken from Marx's Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right which he wrote in 1834, but was published in 1835 as a collaborative work with Arnold Ruge.
It would be, I think, instructive to consider what Marx wrote in its proper context.
Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
Marx K, 1834.
MtD
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I love Matty.
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bump