POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: anniebc on December 05, 2009, 03:32:17 pm
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This is today's head line story in NZ...and they (the Government) say there is enough education on HIV and safe sex..I'm calling BS on that statement, there is none here in NZ, they simply won't admit to it.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3130282/Man-injects-sleeping-wife-with-HIV#share
Hugs
Jan
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I don't think "more education" would have prevented an obviously crazy person from doing this, would it? Or are you referring to the wife who withheld sex?
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"... in the first case of its kind in New Zealand"
!!
Not exactly common for people to wander about injecting their blood into their wives in the rest of the world!!
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I don't think "more education" would have prevented an obviously crazy person from doing this, would it? Or are you referring to the wife who withheld sex?
Hi Miss P
About the education, I was thinking more about the wife withholding sex..I have to wonder what support or advise they were getting and where the hell it was coming from, the husband is obviously crazy and maybe the wife just didn't want to have sex with him..and it had nothing to do with his HIV status...who lknows. I'm sure time will tell.
If it was through lack of advise and education then it's a very sad situation indeed.
Assurbanipal...I don't think I have read about this kind of behaviour any where in the world
Hugs
Jan :-*
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finally, a true case of HIV being used as a weapon (instead of those silly stories about spitting and biting) and a case of spousal abuse. I hope that they both get the psychological counseling they need - her from an HIV clinic and him from jail services.
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the husband is obviously crazy and maybe the wife just didn't want to have sex with him..and it had nothing to do with his HIV status...
Yeah, she had sex with his the first couple of years of his diagnosis so I think there's more than meets the eye there. Plus she was studying nursing so really she should have a bit of a clue about this stuff.
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finally, a true case of HIV being used as a weapon (instead of those silly stories about spitting and biting) and a case of spousal abuse. I hope that they both get the psychological counseling they need - her from an HIV clinic and him from jail services.
I agree they both need serious councelling.
Miss P..I think you are right there is more to this than meets the eye...they were seperated so it's a little more than just the wife withholding sex..but no matter the reason it's a rotten thing to do his wife and he needs to be dealt with.
Hugs
Jan :-*
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The BBC has picked up this story. It is sad, but the details confusing. I wonder why she was OK to have protected sex for a few years and then became scared of being infected?
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The BBC has picked up this story. It is sad, but the details confusing. I wonder why she was OK to have protected sex for a few years and then became scared of being infected?
I wouldn't be surprised if she was using HIV as an excuse to not have sex, her version of "not tonight, dear, I have a headache." Clearly there were other serious issues in their marriage that would make sex undesirable, such as his pathological insecurity.
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Why in hell didn't she go to the authorities at the first sight of a syringe full of blood? and this: "Then in May last year she discovered a sting-like mark on her left thigh. "After having a shower I put some lotion on myself and I could feel pain on my thigh. When I looked at it, it was turning red like a circle, getting bigger and bigger." " Wow, that totally doesn't describe my anal tissue after my exposure, but maybe I should have put some lotion up there after a shower. And looked at it. Sounds to me like like she was either already infected, or got infected after immigrating to NZ, but either way she's convinced her desperate hubby to take the fall for her.
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She was probably cheating on him with some doctor from the hospital she interned at and got HIV that way.... as a matter of fact I can almost guarantee that's what happend. Lil hot nurses running around in their short mini skirts speaking with a sexy accent is a sure mode of HIV infection if you ask me.
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I'm troubled to read some of the comments here because I thought most of this story was straight forward. (by the way Skeebo, this is the same incident as that other thread. this is the only case, not two separate ones ;))
as far as if she was infected prior to arrival in NZ, she was not, as she tested neg on arrival and 4 more times over the years
The man discovered he was HIV-positive during health checks imposed on the family upon arrival in New Zealand in 2004. Tests on the woman and their children showed they were not infected with the virus.
She had tested negative for the human immuno-deficiency virus (HIV) on at least four occasions before the year-long abstinence, so police were certain the needle stick had caused her to be infected.
as far as to why she quit having sex, the story clearly states there were other problems and the HIV component was just one issue. The story implies that she asked him to leave but both agreed that he stay "for the children".
In the year before the man pricked his now-estranged wife, the couple had been experiencing relationship problems, in part because of the woman's refusal to have sex with him, as she feared she would contract the disease.
The woman told the court: "I just wanted to maintain the relationship for the sake of the children ... He insisted on staying and he mentioned that he was not worried about sex ... any more. All he wanted [was] to see the children grow with both parents under one roof."
I'm troubled to read some of the comments here, because they remind me of the way some raped women are accused of somehow bringing it upon themselves.
There were obviously martial problems and she wanted to break up, he wouldn't leave. One possible explanation for why they quit having sex could easily be that the husband refused to have safe sex anymore (he clearly stated he wanted to infect her to make her stay with him) and she refused to continue under those terms. When she allowed him to stay, so they could rear their children together, he began to physically assault her (by pricking her several times). When that didn't result in her seroconverting, with malice and forethought, he actually stabbed her with a syringe. When she became positive, she notified the police (now that she had factual proof of his assaults and not just her testimony), he was charged, pleaded guilty in court (and pleaded guilty to the earlier assaults) and is going to be sentenced.
How about some sympathy for this woman who tried to stay with her man, tried to give her children a home with a father and mother, and is now infected with a terminal disease not through any fault of her own (she obviously had yrs of practicing safe sex and was not infected); but because of the machinations of a deranged man who assaulted her on numerous occasions.
The article doesn't say whether she ever made a complaint about the earlier "sewing needles" assaults; but if she had, there would have been no decent factual proof she could have presented to substantiate that claim. (only her hearsay testimony, and perhaps a small pinprick mark at most, and then she was still testing HIV-) However, if she had complained and anyone would have listened she might have been spared the ultimate assault that did actually infect her. How sad.
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How about some sympathy for this woman who tried to stay with her man, tried to give her children a home with a father and mother, and is now infected with a terminal disease not through any fault of her own
Because so far, other than Jan, the ones who are posting are men. He (the husband) is the one who infected her, the wife. Not the other way around. There may have been other problems in their marriage, but that doesn't excuse his behavior.
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Because so far, other than Jan, the ones who are posting are men. He (the husband) is the one who infected her, the wife. Not the other way around. There may have been other problems in their marriage, but that doesn't excuse his behavior.
On Jul 6, 1999 Joel E. Gallant, M.D., M.P.H. replied:
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To my knowledge, all or virtually all needlestick transmissions have resulted from a stick with a hollow-bore, blood-filled needle. Solid-bore needles (such as surgical sutures) may have blood on the outside, but that blood gets wiped off when the needle passes through a latex glove. A hollow-bore needle, on the other hand, contains a core of blood which can be injected into the tissue after a need-stick, regardless of whether gloves are being worn.
I would say her story doesn't jive with an exposure to a sewing needle. There is more to this than is being told.
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Because so far, other than Jan, the ones who are posting are men. He (the husband) is the one who infected her, the wife. Not the other way around. There may have been other problems in their marriage, but that doesn't excuse his behavior.
What a bunch of sexist hogwash. If a male came into a thread and said this about the women posting I know that you would, once more, be offended and pissed off.
How about you start practicing what your preach.
Mike
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She was probably cheating on him with some doctor from the hospital she interned at and got HIV that way.... as a matter of fact I can almost guarantee that's what happend. Lil hot nurses running around in their short mini skirts speaking with a sexy accent is a sure mode of HIV infection if you ask me.
Wow. This is the same thing people say about straight guys who are infected. Well he says he's straight, but you just know he took it up the butt..."as a matter of fact I can almost guarantee that's what happened."
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What a bunch of sexist hogwash. If a male came into a thread and said this about the women posting I know that you would, once more, be offended and pissed off.
How about you start practicing what your preach.
Mike
Maybe you should heed your own advice and desist with your sexist claptrap. Talk about someone who never, ever, "practices what he continually preaches."
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Like Dr. Gallant I don't think we are getting the real deal or the whole story about what happened in this situation.
Instead it is sadly and maddeningly playing into the public's paranoia and lack of knowledge about HIV in general.
This kind of bizarre and questionable situation gets outsized attention as contrasted with the reality of the overwhelming number of those who are living with the challenges of HIV and behaving totally responsibly in their lives.
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Doxie and Bocker, before the flames go any higher, let's not get sidetracked here with name calling, be it using "sexist" or other such language in the conversation.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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a lot of people really need to go re-read the article, or read it the first time, since a bunch of crazy stuff sure is getting posted here. Please re-read that article carefully. (I admit the timeline part is a little confusing, but it's all there to read; though we are given no details on whether she filed any complaints following the sewing needle incidents.)
I would say her story doesn't jive with an exposure to a sewing needle. There is more to this than is being told.
The woman was NOT infected by the sewing needles incidents, although those constitued an "assault" per se. However, she did sero-convert after the the syringe of blood attack, which gave her ample proof to finally alert the authorities (and be taken seriously) about her husband's bizarre actions.
It still troubles me to see people poo-pooing off the sewing needle incidents. I totally agree you can't be infected that way; but that doesn't mean those weren't assaults that shouldn't have been looked at. When those attacks didn't work, the man escalated his techniques until he found one that did work.
As I said the article doesn't specify whether she previously told anyone about those incidents or whether that just came out in the court case. I would imagine that she wouldn't have been taken seriously by authorities, just by comments that I'm reading here. Frequently that's what happens with women with abusive husbands. No one "believes" the complaint - until the woman is found dead. It shouldn't matter whether a "stick/poke/jab" can pass on a disease or not, if someone is stabbing you with an object that's an assault plain and simple and those actions and the mental state of the assailant need to be looked into.
Like Dr. Gallant I don't think we are getting the real deal or the whole story about what happened in this situation
where does that quote by Dr. Gallant come from? Is it about this situation at all or just "needle sticks" in general? Plus that quote actually confirms the woman's story; it doesn't disprove or cast it in doubt at all.
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a lot of people really need to go re-read the article, or read it the first time, since a bunch of crazy stuff sure is getting posted here. Please re-read that article carefully. (I admit the timeline part is a little confusing, but it's all there to read; though we are given no details on whether she filed any complaints following the sewing needle incidents.)
The woman was NOT infected by the sewing needles incidents, although those constitued an "assault" per se. However, she did sero-convert after the the syringe of blood attack, which gave her ample proof to finally alert the authorities (and be taken seriously) about her husband's bizarre actions.
It still troubles me to see people poo-pooing off the sewing needle incidents. I totally agree you can't be infected that way; but that doesn't mean those weren't assaults that shouldn't have been looked at. When those attacks didn't work, the man escalated his techniques until he found one that did work.
As I said the article doesn't specify whether she previously told anyone about those incidents or whether that just came out in the court case. I would imagine that she wouldn't have been taken seriously by authorities, just by comments that I'm reading here. Frequently that's what happens with women with abusive husbands. No one "believes" the complaint - until the woman is found dead. It shouldn't matter whether a "stick/poke/jab" can pass on a disease or not, if someone is stabbing you with an object that's an assault plain and simple and those actions and the mental state of the assailant need to be looked into.
where does that quote by Dr. Gallant come from? Is it about this situation at all or just "needle sticks" in general? Plus that quote actually confirms the woman's story; it doesn't disprove or cast it in doubt at all.
Guess you best go back and read the story.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Aids-HIV-Man-Injects-Sleeping-Wife-With-Own-Blood-In-New-Zealand-So-They-Could-Have-Sex---Victim/Article/200912115493404?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15493404_Aids%3A_HIV_Man_Injects_Sleeping_Wife_With_Own_Blood_In_New_Zealand_So_They_Could_Have_Sex_-_Victim (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Aids-HIV-Man-Injects-Sleeping-Wife-With-Own-Blood-In-New-Zealand-So-They-Could-Have-Sex---Victim/Article/200912115493404?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15493404_Aids%3A_HIV_Man_Injects_Sleeping_Wife_With_Own_Blood_In_New_Zealand_So_They_Could_Have_Sex_-_Victim)
Court documents detailed how the man, 35, twice pricked his 33-year-old wife with a sewing needle laced with his infected blood.
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Guess you best go back and read the story.
and you should read the story actually linked to this thread, or should have presented your link as an alternative - Although your link has less data about the case and actually links back to the stuff.co.nz article (Jan's link) that is local and has more details about the case. ::)
lI'll reiterate what I said earlier,
either re-read the article, or read it for the first time,
or find us a link to the court transcripts
(instead of reading the "summary" in a secondary article)
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Whether the needle worked or not the bottom line is he confessed he tried to infect her so she wouldn't leave him . No matter how she was infected he is entirely guilty for this assault. Whether you can be infected through a sewing needle or why she waited to report him are interesting side questions but not really the point. If I feed you poison thinking it will kill you but it doesn't I'm still guilty of trying to kill you.
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and you should read the story actually linked to this thread, or should have presented your link as an alternative - Although your link has less data about the case and actually links back to the stuff.co.nz article (Jan's link) that is local and has more details about the case. ::)
lI'll reiterate what I said earlier,
either re-read the article, or read it for the first time,
or find us a link to the court transcripts
(instead of reading the "summary" in a secondary article)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/3130245/Man-injects-sleeping-wife-with-HIV
It states that her husband twice pricked her with a sewing needle laced with his infected blood as she slept. "she once caught him handling a syringe full of his blood." No where does she say he injected her with the syringe...
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Wow. This is the same thing people say about straight guys who are infected. Well he says he's straight, but you just know he took it up the butt..."as a matter of fact I can almost guarantee that's what happened."
And wow you actually took me seriously.... LOL you are a trip and a half Hal. Just full of surprises aren't we?
Edited to add: I was not kidding about the sexy accent though. From the article I can tell she hails from Sweden!
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Because so far, other than Jan, the ones who are posting are men. He (the husband) is the one who infected her, the wife. Not the other way around. There may have been other problems in their marriage, but that doesn't excuse his behavior.
Betty she should have slept with one eye open. I'm sorry she's at fault here. ;)
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No where does she say he injected her with the syringe...
ah, you are correct ;) I fell prey, just like you did with that other article, to only reading what the article said. The headline clearly says "injected". I also took the woman's statements of seeing her husband with a blood-filled syringe at face value, as she had been HIV- previously, wasn't having sex with her husband, and surely wasn't infected by the sewing needle incidents. I also assumed (I know, I know. An "ass" outta u and me :D) that her statment "When I looked at it, it was turning red like a circle, getting bigger and bigger." sounded like a subcutaneous hematoma from an improperly done syringe stick, as that was the same day she claimed to have seen the syringe.
I guess we really do need to see the transcripts to understand what really happened in this case; but until then we only know that the woman claims her husband assaulted her numerous times, with sewing needles and perhaps a syringe of blood, and now she is HIV+, after those assaults to which he himself pleaded guilty.
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and is now infected with a terminal disease not through any fault of her own
Luckily no more a terminal disaese. The terminology isn't adeguate considering current treatment strategies.
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Luckily no more a terminal disaese. The terminology isn't adeguate considering current treatment strategies.
i beg to differ. without medication (and millions around the world, including within America, are hard pressed to always have access to these meds), untreated HIV leads to AIDS which leads to death. Nothing about the way this virus works has changed one iota since this epidemic started and the cause was first found. HIV/AIDS will always be terminal until a cure is found as the current meds only hold it at bay. I know this from first-hand experience as my undiagnosed, untreated partner died of AIDS and non-Hodgkins lymphoma barely a year and a half ago.
I take such a hard stance about this issue because the push seems to be to down-grade the severity of this illness by trying to deem it as some "chronic, manageable" disease. Yet I witnessed this disease kill nearly all my friends and my partner throughout the 80s and early 90s. Throughout the latter portion of the 90s, while off medications (due to resistance and side-effect issues), I found myself in a hospital several times very near death.
For the last decade, I cringe every time the Ryan White Fund comes up for renewal, or my state talks about Medicaid cuts, or the federal gov't talks about revamping prescription programs because it just one of those should fail, I could go without meds. I have already learned from experience that it would be possible for me to be in a hospital again near death within 9 months.
Lest you think that's all crazy talk, I just moved from OH to SC, and it took 3 months because of paperwork and gov't employee inadequacies to simply transfer me from one state Medicaid program to another. During those three months, the only medications I had were the medications that I had personally stockpiled through the past few years just in the case of some such emergency.
Every time someone denigrates HIV into being less than the terminal virus it is, you minimize the danger of contracting the disease it causes, along with the struggle that many people endure to stave off death.
to bring this around to the subject of this post, this is also why I taken the hard-nosed stance that I have. It's not like man was stabbing his wife with H1N1 or something. He was purposefully (through in a very inadequate way) trying to infect her so that she "would stay with him" - but he was trying to infect her with a deadly virus. He planned, plotted and attempted to push HIV into her system. According to her story, when he was unable to do that by having unprotected sex, he tried sewing needles. When that didn't work (as of course it wouldn't), he possibly (by her testimony) ramped up his attempts by using an actual syringe of blood. I think what he did was actually worse than assault and could be considered attemped murder - because that's what HIV does, kills people.
Regardless of how anyone wants to quibble (oops! I got hollered at my another member for using that word a while ago LOL) about how dangerous the needle sticks vs syringe jabs were, the dude was plainly and deliberately criminally assualting the woman.
Regardless of how anyone wants to quibble about the deadliness of HIV, I know that untreated HIV has killed millions. (and is still killing people today!) Though I wouldn't really suggest doing it as most of us are simply not lucky enough to be LTNPs, anyone could easily prove the deadliness of HIV by simply stopping their medications and seeing what happens.
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What he done was inexcusable but she didn't contract HIV from a sewing needle.
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I take such a hard stance about this issue because the push seems to be to down-grade the severity of this illness by trying to deem it as some "chronic, manageable" disease. Yet I witnessed this disease kill nearly all my friends and my partner throughout the 80s and early 90s. Throughout the latter portion of the 90s, while off medications (due to resistance and side-effect issues), I found myself in a hospital several times very near death.
I understand your point of view and I respect it. However all HIV specialists agree that HIV is now indeed a chronic and manageable disease. Of course considering access to HAART. Maybe this statement should be change considering countries. I must sadly consider that USA is in fact a third world country concerning free access to treatment. In the EU we don't have insurance issues and everybody has the possibility to be treated and cured reguardless of his financial possibilities.
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Xman, you left of "For Some." Like diabetes it is manageable for some but not all.
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Xman, you left of "For Some." Like diabetes it is manageable for some but not all.
I agree. In fact this is why I'm so angry about the slow progress in finding new treatments. But as Dr. Gallant said those resistant to all treatment options are very rare.
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Now for the US being a 3rd world country I'll excuse you for that remark maybe it's your lack of knowledge.
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Now for the US being a 3rd world country I'll excuse you for that remark maybe it's your lack of knowledge.
Please read carefully. When it comes to treatment access for poor people, well than your high tech country isn't more efficient and compassionate than Uganda or Nigeria.
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Please read carefully. When it comes to treatment access for poor people, well than your high tech country isn't more efficient and compassionate than Uganda or Nigeria.
How much do you actually know about the programs for medicines for the poor or those that cannot afford their medication in the US? Sound like you don't all that much.
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Perhaps. I quote a part of the post by leatherman. Since he is living in shining America his words are worth something I guess.
For the last decade, I cringe every time the Ryan White Fund comes up for renewal, or my state talks about Medicaid cuts, or the federal gov't talks about revamping prescription programs because it just one of those should fail, I could go without meds. I have already learned from experience that it would be possible for me to be in a hospital again near death within 9 months.
Lest you think that's all crazy talk, I just moved from OH to SC, and it took 3 months because of paperwork and gov't employee inadequacies to simply transfer me from one state Medicaid program to another. During those three months, the only medications I had were the medications that I had personally stockpiled through the past few years just in the case of some such emergency.
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Like I said you don't know much about the available programs in the US to help with medication in the US.
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What a bunch of sexist hogwash. If a male came into a thread and said this about the women posting I know that you would, once more, be offended and pissed off.
How about you start practicing what your preach.
Mike
Wow, for being in recovery as long as you claim to be, you certainly let me get under your skin. Maybe you should go talk about it at a meeting.
Edited to add: I knew the men posting in this thread would know the type of "men" I was referring to in my previous post, and, unless they are the ones I was referring to, wouldn't take offense.
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Like I said you don't know much about the available programs in the US to help with medication in the US.
We are going off topic. Please don't missunderstand me. Without the US efforts in research for HIV now we would be here without any drug and waiting for death.
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I think HIV and AIDS are used as weapons in relationships in many ways. I think men as a gender can be more dangerous and aggressive about the different ways they don't act in the best interests of their partners, than women.
This story is fascinating - as we understand it so far from reporting and he said she saids -- because its an exaggeration of a kind of male pathology we fear.
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Please accept my apologies and regrets for my insensitive comments in my previous post. While I think there is something missing to the story we've been given, and I do think the husband is desperate, I was wrong to post what I did. This is a very sad situation, and my comments yesterday amount to no more than blaming the lady who had good cause to go to the authorities before, but maybe didn't for the same reasons many others haven't. Like love, money, or mental stability.
I'm very sorry. I really do know what it's like to not prosecute.