Undetect - slept with a neg guy without protection and freaking out

[newbie76]

The title says it all really.
I was top. He told me he can't do it with a condom that's why he is normally top himself and only btms with a boyfriend.
He told me he tested neg 6 months ago and asked my status. I said I was neg.
I started using a condom but then we ended up doing it without.
I'm freaking out and really hate myself, but what are the chances he caught it?
It's 4.30 here and I have been sick thinking about it. I know I'm a horrible person. Please advise.
What if I text him to get pep? Can he sue me after if he catches it anyway? The ironic thing is that the guy studied criminology for f*ck sake!
What if he chooses not to take pep but wants to prosecute me for lying to him?
Please help.

[nomatterhow]

if you are UD the chance he is contaminated by you is very low ... btw , i think he should feel like what you feel now!  and i am not sure if he is neg, if someone bypasses condom so easily, there are big chances he does it with many people ... and he is probably poz and he ignores it .... dont let his ignorance torture you!

[newbie76]

He seemed genuine when he said he tested 6 months ago. He went: I tested 4 months... Erm no 6 months ago.
He said he was only btm twice (3 with me) in the last 2 years.
But he also told me he went to have sex with 8 people at the weekend (drugs were involved) although he was relieved to see everyone was using condoms.
I should perhaps add the guy is only 21.

[jkinatl2]

Um, are you undetectable?

No matter what, are you going to be the kind of person who can do this?

His sexual health is up to him. But your conscience is your own.

[newbie76]

Yes, I am undetectable. Forgot to update the signature on here as I don't use this a lot, but tested undetectable in Dec.

And you are right - I don't want to be that person, but it happened. And my conscience is what's keeping me up now and making me throw up in the toilet.

[nomatterhow]

at the same time its now too late !! if he got it from you or others, you would never know ... but if you are UD, the chances he got it from you are very low....

no matter how old he is , he is responsible for his own health , i mean people lie a lot about their " last " test ... i never ever had sex without condom in my life and i am poz with the most resistant virus ever!! i mean shit happens , at one point you have to stand up and be responsible for your own shit ... forget him and take care of yourself!!

[ad2san]

at the same time its now too late !! if he got it from you or others, you would never know ... but if you are UD, the chances he got it from you are very low....

...very very very low ....

[coolstone25]

I urge you to tell him!!!

You may claim, you were called yesterday/today by the clinic that you are positive. Tell him to go to the emergency room to take PEP RIGHT NOW!!! LIKE NOW! Each minute, each hour is important. If he's really negative, he'll atleast have the chance to PROTECT himself from infection.

He's 21 which means he's still too young, naive and stupid and overwhelmed with hormones to get in to stupid situations.

That's my two cents.

I hope everything for you and him turns out ok.
I shall keep you in my prayers.

C

[jkinatl2]

So what are you going to do?

Depending on where you live in the US, you might be vulnerable to prosecution. But if nothing happens as a result of this, and you say nothing, then what next?

I disagree with the other posters. If you are That Guy, then own up to it. Maybe not to him, but to yourself.

And make certain that you remember this feeling. Maybe other guys want to get infected. Maybe they think they are invincible. Whatever. It's what you think, and where you put your seed that counts.

It's what you can live with.

Honestly, I am not judging. But it seems that you don't want to be a party to the spread of HIV.  And if that's true, then maybe this is something you need to remember.

[coolstone25]

...very very very low ....

But certainly the risk exists.

I know a few cases where the other partner was UD but the infection occurred. Agreed, it cuts the stats of the new infection cases, but, again, nevertheless infections from the other person who is on ART and UD has happened.

You'd like to believe something else, but the risk is there.

[coolstone25]

So what are you going to do?

Depending on where you live in the US, you might be vulnerable to prosecution. But if nothing happens as a result of this, and you say nothing, then what next?

I disagree with the other posters. If you are That Guy, then own up to it. Maybe not to him, but to yourself.

And make certain that you remember this feeling. Maybe other guys want to get infected. Maybe they think they are invincible. Whatever. It's what you think, and where you put your seed that counts.

It's what you can live with.

Honestly, I am not judging. But it seems that you don't want to be a party to the spread of HIV.  And if that's true, then maybe this is something you need to remember.

well said.

[newbie76]

  I don't know what I will do. but I can see him getting all the sides effects for the month he will be on PEP and thinking "how I can get him to pay for this?"
Honestly I would rather die than go to jail.

[ad2san]

But certainly the risk exists.

I know a few cases where the other partner was UD but the infection occurred. Agreed, it cuts the stats of the new infection cases, but, again, nevertheless infections from the other person who is on ART and UD has happened.

You'd like to believe something else, but the risk is there.

you assume that the "few cases" were totally faithful and never had a bareback intercourse with a + I guess .....
The risk are in people fooling around bareback not people taking bravely their meds ....

[jkinatl2]

you assume that the "few cases" were totally faithful and never had a bareback intercourse with a + I guess .....
The risk are in people fooling around bareback not people taking bravely their meds ....

Like I said, it's what YOU can live with.

Whatever gets you past the mirror in the morning.

[coolstone25]

  I don't know what I will do. but I can see him getting all the sides effects for the month he will be on PEP and thinking "how I can get him to pay for this?"
Honestly I would rather die than go to jail.

While you think things over what you will do, remember, every minute for him post exposure, is precious - for him.

Once you explain to him, you weren't aware but just found out you're positive, you will atleast armed him to excuse you and secondly, so he takes steps to PROTECT HIS HEALTH by taking preventative measures and medications.

Remember it's his health on the line now. Jonathan(jkinatl) said some good things to consider.
I hope you shall take the course that's right.

And if my money's on the mark, after the PEP course when he (most likely) comes out negative, he will have something to thank you for, he will very very probably not even pursue the course of litigation and will probably have gained wisdom and more savviness through experience and thankfulness that he came out unscathed, without a scratch.

@ad2san
The few cases who were faithful to their partners indeed barebacked - with a positive that too - because the positive ones were their partners. Magnetic couples (or serodiscordant couples).... where one was positive, one was negative. The positive partner's VL was UD - and they weren't particularly careful with protection all the time. I know at least two cases to my memory in recent years.

[tednlou2]

You're in London, right?  Are they prosecuting folks there like they are here?  Is he still within the 72 hour window period for PEP? 

[newbie76]

I'm in the UK. We had sex a few hours ago.
Clinics wouldn't call u to tell u u are positive. they would do a prick test and tell u there and then.
He knows my plans for today and knows I couldn't possibly go for a test today.
AFAIK It's very difficult to prosecute someone for infecting u with hiv here. U need to prove that was the only person u did bb with.

[jkinatl2]

Honestly, I wouldn't base my values and personal morals on what I could or could not be prosecuted for.

I like to think we each have some deeper things.

I hope that going forward you can do what makes you happy.

After all, that's what we're all looking for, right?

[tednlou2]

I'm in the UK. We had sex a few hours ago.
Clinics wouldn't call u to tell u u are positive. they would do a prick test and tell u there and then.
He knows my plans for today and knows I couldn't possibly go for a test today

If you were neg and worried you may have gotten HIV from him (I know it wouldn't show up yet, but people freak out and go immediately for a test), then changing your plans for a test would make sense.  Or, somehow contact him anonymously.  Perhaps a phone call from a public phone or blocked number.  If he would recognize your voice, maybe you know someone who could do it for you?  Although, you've already made a public confession here, so I would be careful who else I brought in on this, unless you know you could trust them completely. 

Are there any organizations there who notify sexual partners?  I know, here, that would normally be the health dept.  But, that is usually after they know who you are and that you've tested poz.  I would think an HIV/AIDS organization could make contact with someone, if you called them anonymously.  You would at least know you've done all you could do after this mistake, besides just telling him yourself. 

[jkinatl2]

Tednlou, I think that's a bit over the top.

[tednlou2]

Tednlou, I think that's a bit over the top.

 

What part? 

[newbie76]

What if I was to tell him I was negative at my last test but have been doing bb on a few occasions since, so I think he should get PEP?
Still if he decides to prosecute, surely my medical records would be accessed... 

[jkinatl2]

Um, the part where a person who has told NO ONE he is positive thinks to tell another person how to and when to disclose? Thats a terribly personal issue. The OP as was stated has little chance of infecting the other person, yet we know ON THESE FORUMS that it often does not end well at all when someone discloses after the fact.

Given the facts involved, I would hesitate before recommending action that would leave the OP open to harm, whether it be official or unofficial. If the OP chooses to leave an anonymous message, then so be it. But honestly, what you recommend, while perhaps easy - AND POSSIBLE - in the US, might not be either in the UK.

If the OP really feels strongly about this, then he can give the other party a message in such a manner that leaves him OUT of the equation and still offers the other party oppertunity for PEP. Assuming, of course, that the other party desires and would act upoin such reccomendation.

[newbie76]

Um, the part where a person who has told NO ONE he is positive thinks to tell another person how to and when to disclose? Thats a terribly personal issue. The OP as was stated has little chance of infecting the other person, yet we know ON THESE FORUMS that it often does not end well at all when someone discloses after the fact.

Given the facts involved, I would hesitate before recommending action that would leave the OP open to harm, whether it be official or unofficial. If the OP chooses to leave an anonymous message, then so be it. But honestly, what you recommend, while perhaps easy - AND POSSIBLE - in the US, might not be either in the UK.

If the OP really feels strongly about this, then he can give the other party a message in such a manner that leaves him OUT of the equation and still offers the other party oppertunity for PEP. Assuming, of course, that the other party desires and would act upoin such reccomendation.

I'm confused now. I thought earlier u were suggesting i should come clean, whereas now u seem to lean the other way.
Granted u wouldn't put urself in my situation, what would u do if u were me?

[tednlou2]

Um, the part where a person who has told NO ONE he is positive thinks to tell another person how to and when to disclose?

I'm not going to derail this thread, so I will let this go.  I don't know what not telling family and friends I have HIV has to do with telling someone I may have put them at risk for HIV.  Totally separate.  Just wanted to clarify that, because newer members may read that to mean I have sex without telling my partners.  These personal attacks are uncalled for.   

The OP is obviously conflicted about whether to tell and how to go about it, if he does.  You don't have to have experienced something yourself in order to brainstorm ideas.  I'm not telling anyone what they MUST do.  Just throwing out ideas.  Obviously, the choice will be up to him.  But, I'm confused by your comments as well.  More than once, you seemed to have been suggesting he should tell this guy and that would be the moral thing to do.       

[jkinatl2]

If I were you? I would find an anonymous way to inform the other party. In the US there are many ways via email.

I do not know how that works in the UK.

However, even if you don't do that in this instance, what I was trying to suggest is that you take this incident as a means to inform YOU as to your personal boundaries, those limits that YOU decide you won't breach.

The other posters are correct, the chance of infection are slim. But they are existent. You have to decide where to go from here.

Honestly, the person you need to come clean to, is yourself.  What matters to ME is that you sleep OK tonight. Your partner made his choices. I hope he comes out OK.

You, on the other hand, I worry about.

[newbie76]

Yes I am looking inside myself too, and seriously thinking to seek for professional help cos I know this isn't right.
With regards to ur suggestion though that would be unfeasible because:
1 I don't have hid email or phone number. met him online and he called me from an undisclosed number
2 An email saying he needs PEP means it comes from whoever he slept with in ln the last 72 hours...

[jkinatl2]

Only you, as a grown up, can choose what you do. My concern FOR YOU is that you make yourself a target, when you might well not deserve that.

I am hoping someone from the UK with more innate knowledge of their system can help you from here.

Like I said - and shoot me for choosing - but I am worried about YOU. PLEASE be kind to yourself.

Every human on this planet makes mistakes. We can learn from them (or from a LOAD of them) or not. It's what we do after, that makes us special.

You put someone at MINIMAL harm.

If that makes you throw up in the toilet, and post on AM, then it's obvious that it means something to you.

The good news is, you can decide who you want to be from this moment forward.

DO NOT let this moment BIND you.  WHAT ever you decide, DO it, and let this choice free you.

You can have all the amazing, filthy, nasty (fun) sex you WANT and still not expose another human soul to HIV.

No matter what, I've got your back.

[spacebarsux]

I urge you to tell him!!!

You may claim, you were called yesterday/today by the clinic that you are positive. Tell him to go to the emergency room to take PEP RIGHT NOW!!! LIKE NOW! Each minute, each hour is important. If he's really negative, he'll atleast have the chance to PROTECT himself from infection.

He's 21 which means he's still too young, naive and stupid and overwhelmed with hormones to get in to stupid situations.

That's my two cents.

I hope everything for you and him turns out ok.
I shall keep you in my prayers.

C

I just wanted to say that even though Coolstone means well he is HIV negative and can in no way comprehend your mental state right now.

Best.

[newbie76]

Thank u.
What u just wrote brought tears to my eyes. Literally.
Going to work now. Will think on this more.

[Miss Philicia]

I just wanted to say that even though Coolstone means well he is HIV negative and can in no way comprehend your mental state right now.

Best.

so why is he posting in this thread?

[spacebarsux]

Like I said - and shoot me for choosing - but I am worried about YOU. PLEASE be kind to yourself.

 

I concur. And with the rest of what JKinatl said as well.

[spacebarsux]

so why is he posting in this thread?

I don't know Miss P. Maybe the mods know why.

[jkinatl2]

so why is he posting in this thread?

I just caught this..


Shit storms, I need a fucking BAN HAMMER.

[Miss Philicia]

duly reported

[mecch]

This thread is a shit storm of fears and “head in the sand” ignorance, misinformation and denial.

The title says it all really.
I was top. He told me he can't do it with a condom that's why he is normally top himself and only btms with a boyfriend.
He told me he tested neg 6 months ago and asked my status. I said I was neg.

----  Blah be de blah blah blah blah blah….   He's in denial and you’re a liar. Sweet. Oh bye the way, did you bareback top him 1?  Or was that 3 different occassions bareback.... Not clear.

I started using a condom but then we ended up doing it without.

______  “ended up”   why the switch?  So examine why you switched and avoid that impulse in the future if you don’t want to have impulsive bareback sex.


I'm freaking out and really hate myself, but what are the chances he caught it?
It's 4.30 here and I have been sick thinking about it. I know I'm a horrible person. Please advise.

____  Advise on what? If you are a horrible person. So far, you are just a shit for lying… We all regret lies, sometimes. 

What if I text him to get pep? Can he sue me after if he catches it anyway? The ironic thing is that the guy studied criminology for f*ck sake!

---  As an aside, his knowledge of crime is not “ironic” for your situation…. 

-- As a further aside, you thought to “text” your admittance of a lie about being HIV-.   You said he is 21. How old are you?   This would be a phone call my dear.

What if he chooses not to take pep but wants to prosecute me for lying to him?
Please help.

---  Why don't you look up on the internet and learn if there are any laws in your locality related to this act and this lie.  And report them here.  And decide for yourself the best course of action as far as the legal rammifiations of this act. 

---  This train wreck thread is a result of people responded to your 15 different questions on different fears and tangents. 

I think the shortest advice here is 1) We are going to assume its low risk for him. And that his stories and M.O. don't hold much water.  2) If there are no laws that will punish your act or your lie, where you fucked, then you can tell him if it will make you feel better.  3) If there are laws that could punish your act and your lie, then you must decide what the possible benefits and damages are for two people, you and him. That's 4 evaluations, and seemingly impossible to do.  So, given 1) above, I'd keep my trap shut.

[newbie76]

UPDATE

First of all I dont have his number so I could not call him.
I saw he was online and told him I felt bad for not using a condom and that he should get PEP. I did not mention my status. His reply was that he was terribly sorry about not using a condom and that he will try get PEP tonight. Whether he will, I don't know.

[spacebarsux]

UPDATE

First of all I dont have his number so I could not call him.
I saw he was online and told him I felt bad for not using a condom and that he should get PEP. I did not mention my status. His reply was that he was terribly sorry about not using a condom and that he will try get PEP tonight. Whether he will, I don't know.

Great! So, you did the responsible thing and told him to get PEP. I think you can leave this episode behind as terrible mistake (never to be repeated) and move on.

Best

[newbie76]

Great! So, you did the responsible thing and told him to get PEP. I think you can leave this episode behind as terrible mistake (never to be repeated) and move on.

Best

I guess I should feel somewhat relieved but I don't. Mainly because he said he will try to go, but i bet he won't, and if in 3 months it turns out he is +, he will think how weird of that guy texting the next day to suggest I should get PEP when he told me he was negative.

Maybe I should have just kept my trap shut, as someone suggested. TOo late now.

[coolstone25]

duly reported

Thank you. My status wasn't relevant. I do not post prolifically in these sections. I strongly limit myself to research and studies postings. I am a care giver and researcher in HIV/Virology but this was very important hence I used some discretion to give a rare input.

I am a researcher in genetics with strong specialization in Immunology and virology at a top university in the NY area. I am a care giver and a researcher - and somehow people in various positions get my cell number or save me up as lab researcher and get in touch with me to ask for help even in such situations when I dont even know how - and I do help patients in such positions/situations. I have helped those in NY in acute stages of infection when they tested negative but with high viral loads, I have referred patients to these forums or helped those in need to acquire PEP, personally.

That said, I want to tell the OP, well done.
Very very well done.

[spacebarsux]

Thank you. My status wasn't relevant. I do not post prolifically in these sections. I strongly limit myself to research and studies postings. I am a care giver and researcher in HIV/Virology but this was very important hence I used some discretion to give a rare input.

I am a researcher in genetics with strong specialization in Immunology and virology at a top university in the NY area. I am a care giver and a researcher - and somehow people in various positions get my cell number or save me up as lab researcher and get in touch with me to ask for help even in such situations when I dont even know how - and I do help patients in such positions/situations. I have helped those in NY in acute stages of infection when they tested negative but with high viral loads, I have referred patients to these forums or helped those in need to acquire PEP, personally.

That said, I want to tell the OP, well done.
Very very well done.

Irrelevant. You're not a person living with HIV.

[coolstone25]

Irrelevant. You're not a person living with HIV.

If I am warned of misusage of posting privileges, I shall move out of these forums and decline free help to those who could make use of good input/advice in future. Maybe Tim Horn may help? I do feel though, spacebar, HIV is not a disease of haves and have nots. It's an everybody human disease and we have to be united in our outlook against it.

My personal policies are oriented to HELP reduce the incidences of new HIV infections. And I have given countless hours of my time and advice for free or even spent my own money to help out cover those with HIV.

[spacebarsux]

I guess I should feel somewhat relieved but I don't. Mainly because he said he will try to go, but i bet he won't, and if in 3 months it turns out he is +, he will think how weird of that guy texting the next day to suggest I should get PEP when he told me he was negative.

Maybe I should have just kept my trap shut, as someone suggested. TOo late now.

You exercised your responsibility and followed through with the brave act of telling him to take PEP. The ball is in his court now, the way I see it.

He's an adult and there's only so much one can say- what more can you do? Drag him by the collar to the clinic ? Ultimately, every adult is responsible for their own health.

I hope you sleep better tonight.

[spacebarsux]

If I am warned of misusage of posting privileges, I shall move out of these forums and decline free help to those who could make use of good input/advice in future. Maybe Tim Horn may help? I do feel though, spacebar, HIV is not a disease of haves and have nots. It's an everybody human disease and we have to be united in our outlook against it.

My personal policies are oriented to HELP reduce the incidences of new HIV infections. And I have given countless hours of my time and advice for free or even spent my own money to help out cover those with HIV.

I have no idea what you're getting so defensive about. You're not a person living with HIV and are not permitted to post in "Living with HIV"- even if you're a researcher. That's all I am saying.

Besides, this thread isn't about you. Not at all. So don't make it.

[Ann]

Coolstone, as a member who is NOT hiv positive, you should NOT be posting in the Living forum. You've already had your PM privilege revoked for bothering positive members via PM, and you are on the verge of being permanently banned. Be careful mate, I'm watching you.

Ann

[Ann]

Coolstone, I didn't see your post (reply #41) - and I'm happy to help you. You're banned. It's been coming for a while anyway as you have repeatedly disregarded our posting rules.

Ann

[mecch]

UPDATE

First of all I dont have his number so I could not call him.
I saw he was online and told him I felt bad for not using a condom and that he should get PEP. I did not mention my status. His reply was that he was terribly sorry about not using a condom and that he will try get PEP tonight. Whether he will, I don't know.

Ok thanks for the update.

(So by "text" you mean email or chat site message. I misunderstood and thought you meant telephone text message.)

Wait, did I miss something here?  You went on about the possible legal risks, and now that whole issue was put aside to do the right think by yourself and him, morally? 

Or, you figured out there was no legal risk in your state, location?

Or, there is a risk but you put it aside???

Anyway, at least you moved forward through a difficult situation. Congrats.

[MiniPozToyota]

you had unprotected sex knowing you were poz enough said....

[jkinatl2]

you had unprotected sex knowing you were poz enough said....

Apparently not, since you felt compelled to pile on.

[Buckmark]

...
He told me he tested neg 6 months ago and asked my status. I said I was neg.
...

Newbie76, I think you need to seriously reflect back on this particular moment where you lied and told him he was negative.  This isn't about beating yourself up for lying.  It's about understanding why you lied.  There could be many reasons (loneliness, embarrassment, self-esteem, haven't fully accepted being positive yourself).  Whatever it is, those are the things you need to work on going forward.  You'd don't sounds like you're the type of person who wants to be contributing to the spread of HIV.  But, at least in this instance, you are.  Like jkinatl2 said, I'm worried about *you*.

Henry