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Author Topic: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?  (Read 7345 times)

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Offline billy

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VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« on: September 12, 2007, 02:42:41 pm »
Hi guys,

my first labs June 2007 were as follows:
CD4 523 and VL 210.000

my second labs Sep 2007 were as follows:
CD4 600 and VL about 1.000.000

My doc said I should start treatment... and actually I dont want to.
in the meantime i had 2 injections against Hep-B and a very little flu.

Did the vaccination influence my VL? I am wondering about the numbers cuz I had a very good diet...
I am thinking of doing another VL test at a different clinic...

You might have same experience...
Cya Billy


Logged
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50
06/16: T4 1050 VL<50
12/16: T4 1520 VL<50

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,900
  • the one and original newt
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 06:07:52 pm »
Hello welcome, regardless of the circumstances of meeting, welcome

It is important to know that there is a wide margin of accuracy for viral load tests. The rather precise looking result comes with a range.  This range is a factor of 3 times greater or smaller. Therefore a viral load test result might mean a viral load of 3 x the number or a viral load of 1/3rd the number.  So you need a series of tests to get any kind of picture. 

On the basis of these 2 results, your viral load is somewhere in the 6 figure mark.  But where? No-one can tell you and it is wrong for any healthcare provider to say anything about you viral load right now other than it's high. Get another test. Preferably 2.

Plus, off treatment CD4 count is the important measure.  Your CD4 count is well within normal range (500+ ... or 400+ on the new re-calibrated tests).

If this is a new infection (0-6 months since infection) then (1) your viral load will rocket and bounce, 1 million is nothing, and also nothing to worry about, it will fall (2) a short course (3-6 months) of treatment may be beneficial but strictly speaking this is an unvalidated intervention.

- matt
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 06:19:30 pm by newt »
Logged
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline billy

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  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 01:34:02 pm »
thx matt,

tomorrow i'm gonna make another test... its just 16 days later... but we'll see
cya

billy
Logged
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50
06/16: T4 1050 VL<50
12/16: T4 1520 VL<50

Offline milker

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  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 07:37:05 pm »
Billy,

the major part of the treatment is adherence and you feeling comfortable about taking your meds. If you don't want to, then don't go on meds now. Your immune system must be in the "wtf" state, and the virus takes advantage of it. It's very common during the early stages of the infection, so hopefully the next tests will show a reduction in VL, that often goes with a reduction of CD4s.

Keep us posted.

Milker.
Logged
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline newt

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  • Posts: 3,900
  • the one and original newt
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 07:48:35 pm »
Ahem

V soon after infection viral load rises massively and C4 count falls, sometimes to below 200, then as the body gains control of the infection viral load usually falls and CD4 count rises again.  In time the virus depletes the immune system leading to a CD4 count drop. Starting treatment restores CD4 counts in most people to a functional, even "normal" level.

- matt

(soz M  :))

[attachment deleted by admin]
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"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,900
  • the one and original newt
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 07:50:23 pm »
With treatment the graph looks a bit different (different endpoint  :))

- matt

[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline milker

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  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 08:14:46 pm »
Quote from: newt on September 19, 2007, 07:48:35 pm
Ahem

V soon after infection viral load rises massively and C4 count falls, sometimes to below 200, then as the body gains control of the infection viral load usually falls and CD4 count rises again.  In time the virus depletes the immune system leading to a CD4 count drop. Starting treatment restores CD4 counts in most people to a functional, even "normal" level.

- matt

(soz M  :))
Yes I was thinking at this exact schema, wondering if Billy's results were showing the exact point where the VL will suddenly fall, as well as the CD4s. That's what I tried to say in my sentence:  hopefully the next tests will show a reduction in VL, that often goes with a reduction of CD4s.

Or was the ahem not for me ? :D

Milker.
Logged
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 08:30:31 pm »
hey billy,

Try not to stress too much about the viral load. Mine bounced around like mad for the first 12 to 18 months anywhere within a range of <10,000 up to 1,000,000, seemingly without rhyme or reason. My cd4's however, stayed fairly stable.

Matt makes some very salient points.
Logged
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline billy

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
Re: VL 200.000 to VL 1.000.000 in 3 months... why?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 01:45:17 pm »
hi guys,

i am since friday on meds... kaletra + combivir
my doc said it's the best thing for me to start... cuz the trend (after 2 labs) shows upwards... whatever  ???
actually i feel well... only in the morning or evenings i mean if i dont eat for a long time anything... then my stomache is hurting.
OK, i have this side effect since sunday morning. But still, i hope it will not take many days.
In 2 months I'll go for my next labs... hope that those pills do their work good.

however... now you can welcome me completely into the club  ;)

cya girls & boys
kisses
Logged
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50
06/16: T4 1050 VL<50
12/16: T4 1520 VL<50
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