Depressed and disappointed in myself and my choices

[disappointedinmyself]

Hi all,

First off, I want to thank everyone for the hard work they put in to keeping up with these forums on a routine basis. I have been a lurker of these forums for over a month, and they have comforted me at times, but not entirely. I finally have the courage today to share my recent experience and see if you could please provide me with a risk assessment. I have read others' posts on the forums, but I feel like I have some different variables at play that I wanted to get your personal opinions on.

I have had two recent encounters (I am a man living here in the US by the way).

1. My first encounter was on June 9. I received MSM oral sex and also returned oral sex to a guy that I met online. I asked him if he was clean and HIV negative and he told me he was. He also has a partner, but they have an open relationship. The man also briefly fingered my ass but didn't go too far up, and he used his spit at times as lube. There was no ejaculation in or near my mouth. I don't think I tasted any precum or saw any either. He ejaculated on himself and I ejaculated separately on myself. I do think I suffer from mild hemorrhoids (I occasionally bleed after wiping myself in the bathroom): does the fingering with his spit put me at risk? Also, if there was precum and I just didn't realize, what's the viral load like in precum?

2. My second encounter was on June 23. This is the one that worries me more. I again met this man online. I know that he said he showered before meeting up with me and I did the same so we both would be clean. Again, I engaged in MSM mutual oral sex. I must have given him head for a total of 1.5 min max (on and off) and he spent more time on me. I don't think I tasted or saw any precum but I guess you never know. I know that he ejaculated on his chest first and then continued to give me head until I asked him to stop and I ejaculated separately on myself. He did also very briefly give me a rim job for around half a minute. I am again worried about the issue of possible hemorrhoids and him giving me a rim job this time. I am also worried that he ejaculated on himself (his chest) and then continued to give me head: I don't think his cum got near me when he was giving me head but I can never be completely sure. I asked him as well if he was clean and HIV negative and he told me was.

But after this second experience, I haven't been feeling entirely well or like myself. My tongue has gotten very white and I am convinced that I have oral thrush. It's not super thick like some of the pictures on google show but it just doesn't look normal and pink. My tongue is coated white, just not at the tip and I can see more white stuff in the very back of my tongue.

I noticed the white tongue a little less than 1 week after the second experience and it hasn't gotten better even after trying to use mouthwash called Biotene that is alcohol free and a tongue scraper and warm salt water to gargle with. Although my white tongue looks very scary, it doesn't hurt and I am eating fine, but it's mentally driving me crazy and I am finally going to the dentist about it in 3 days (well it's for a teeth cleaning but I want to know).

On July 15 (36 days after first encounter / 3 weeks and 1 day after second experience), I decided to go to a clinic and get tested. They did the oraquick and it came back negative and they also sent in my blood to again test for HIV in addition to syphilis, chlamydia, and herpes. I got the results back and everything came back negative. But this was only at a maximum of 3 weeks, 1 day after the incident. How reliable is this test (oraquick and the blood test they sent off)?

On July 30 (5 weeks and 2 day after last encounter), I went to a different clinic and had the oraquick performed. I again tested negative. How reliable would this 5 week going on 6 week oraquick test be?

I am just so worried about my risk. My white tongue will not go away and it looks so abnormal. I can definitely see these small white bumps all over the tongue and a build up in the back. I also felt slightly warm/unwell on day 22 after my second experience and this feeling of being warm has been a feeling that has been on and off since then, but doesn't tend to last an entire day. Is this a symptom of ARS?

I am only around 20 years old and I have so much left in life that I want to do. I just returned home for the summer after being away and I can't even look at my family properly. I feel so much guilt and regret and I feel like I ruined my life and more importantly, their lives. My little sibling loves me so much and looks up to me and look at what I have done. I don't know what I will do if I am HIV positive. I can't put them through that. Please, please, please tell me that you have some advice for me? Why else would I get thrush at such a coincidental time? I am just so scared, and spending time on the internet isn't helping. I am really so so scared.

I know I provided a lot of information here. Please take your time to review it and give me your advice. I really appreciate everything you do.

Best,
Disappointedinmyself 

[Andy Velez]

As far as HIV is concerned you are worrying needlessly. Nothing you have reported of your activities put you at risk for HIV transmission. You need to know that the only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. As long as condoms are always used properly for those activities you will be well protected.

If you have thrush that is not an HIV-specific happening. That and any other "symptoms" you may have ought to be discussed with a doctor. HIV is not going to be the cause because based on what you have reported nothing put you at risk for HIV. HIV is a fragile virus and is not transmitted in any of the ways you have been worrying about.

It does sound like you're coming down pretty hard on yourself for whatever you did sexually. Your sexuality is a natural part of your being human. Give yourself a break and just get on with your life.

In general we do recommend that anyone who is sexually active ought to at least annually if not every 6 months have a full STD panel done. That's because other STDs are much easier to acquire than HIV.

Good luck to you and get on with your life. There is no need for HIV testing at this time.

[disappointedinmyself]

Thank you for taking the time to read about my situation and arrive at a risk assessment. I wanted to ask just a few more specific questions, if you don't mind. As you can tell, this whole incident really has me worried and I'm sure you see this everyday, but I have really never felt so terrible about something like this in my life and I really want to know just a little bit more during this scary time.

1. I just wanted to check and make sure you knew about these specific factors in my case that I have when you made the risk assessment:

A. I have Linea alba inside my cheeks-- it's this white line on my cheeks from bitting (I think) at night when I sleep
B. Possible hemmhoroid
C. I'm uncircumcised

2. I tried to follow other people's posts who were similarly scared of getting HIV from performing MSM oral sex to see what cases got moved to the just tested positive forum. Have you run across any of these cases from your time in the forum?

3. If someone does have possible ARS symptoms like I think I experienced such as mild fever/ white tongue etc, how soon can the oraquick or blood tests show up HIV positive?

4. I know you said further testing is unnecessary. My last oraquick test was negative at 5 weeks, 2 days, was this somewhat reassuring?

5. Also, Im wondering if my white tongue and feeling down  is a cause of another std. My std panel blood test was done at 3 weeks, 1 day after incident: was that too early  for other stds to show up via blood test. Im just wondering because if I already expressed white tongue before they did the blood test at 3 weeks 1 day, shouldn't something have come up positive at time of test?

Thank you so much for answering these questions! I still am really disappointed in the way I acted. I thought I was acting safe, but you never really can be too safe.

[Ann]

disappointed,

I agree with Andy. Nothing you mentioned was a risk for hiv infection.

1. I just wanted to check and make sure you knew about these specific factors in my case that I have when you made the risk assessment:

Yes. We read your massive missive.

2. I tried to follow other people's posts who were similarly scared of getting HIV from performing MSM oral sex to see what cases got moved to the just tested positive forum. Have you run across any of these cases from your time in the forum?

No. Sometimes people who have tested poz before turning up here claim oral transmission, but those cases usually don't hold up to scrutiny. It's called patient report and patient report is notoriously unreliable.

To find out what was actually going on (patient report vs. reality), there have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

And you know, it's funny how there's never been a case of a woman who claimed transmission from giving blowjobs. Considering there's a lot more women out there in the world giving blowjobs than there are men, and there are actually more cases of heterosexual transmission world wide, that's a helluva discrepancy.

3. If someone does have possible ARS symptoms like I think I experienced such as mild fever/ white tongue etc, how soon can the oraquick or blood tests show up HIV positive?

The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week or more negative is highly unlikely to change, but must be confirmed at the three month point.

4. I know you said further testing is unnecessary. My last oraquick test was negative at 5 weeks, 2 days, was this somewhat reassuring?

Provided you've tested at three months past your last incident of unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse, then you do not need further testing.

5. Also, Im wondering if my white tongue and feeling down  is a cause of another std. My std panel blood test was done at 3 weeks, 1 day after incident: was that too early  for other stds to show up via blood test. Im just wondering because if I already expressed white tongue before they did the blood test at 3 weeks 1 day, shouldn't something have come up positive at time of test?

If you feel unwell or are worried about your tongue, go see a doctor and/or dentist.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[disappointedinmyself]

Hi Ann,

Thank you for your response (and thanks to you too Andy). I am going to the dentist on Tuesday, and I am going to speak with him about my white tongue. I am really hoping this has nothing to do with HIV or STDs, and that I am just trying to find a way to deal with the shame and guilt I feel of meeting some random stranger online and doing what I did with them.

After I speak with the dentist on Tuesday, I will come back here and update you guys. I want to continue to update everyone on my story so that others can potentially benefit as well.

I would appreciate any prayers/warm thoughts during this time. Fingers crossed everything is okay.

[Andy Velez]

Good luck with your dental visit.

If you can't get past your feelings of shame about this then you might find talking with a therapist or other professional worthwhile. We can't help you with that in this setting.