gods day and recreational drugs - asides from the hell factor

[AtomicA]

Hello People
Once again I reappear after a substantial absence. I should apologize, but school this past year has been alot like getting fisted without lube (I know some people might call that a great Friday night, but I however am far to much like a 12 year old virgin to enjoy that).

anyway, I reappear with a question I have asked before but with a more immediate cause.

I'm going to Vancouver this weekend for a big gay dance party on sunday with the guy I'm presently dating. I have been taking Sustiva and Kivexa (abacavir/lamivudine) for exactly one and a half years now and have been as healthy as can be expected with an undetectable viral load and CD4 count well north of 500 ever since. I have been a remarkably good boy, with only the occasional toke on a bong and a glass of wine after work the whole time and have been at the gym 5 days a week for two years now - which aside from making my body look freaking sexy has kept my head from exploding during midterm/finals/final paper season.

So, here's the thing. I haven't touched e since I started meds but there is a real chance that this weekend may be a once a year sort of event and I am feeling the urge. I know the people I'm with will also be doing GHB at some point and while I've never done it I have been very curious about the idea.

all the research I've been doing on drug interactions are very sketchy with lots of 'could possibly's' and 'might sometimes'. Has anyone reading this ever combined e and/or GHB with the drug combo (or even just one of them) that I am taking before? what happened? did you need to take less? were you rolling for 30 hours? I'm really looking for someone with empirical experience to tell me if this is just a wrong-o idea. I'm not talking like 14 pills stay up all night, I'm talking maybe one at the beginning of the party and G much later, both well before the sun comes up.

One strategy I was thinking about was that since I work nights on weekends and won't be able to take my meds until at least 3am when I get home tonight that I could push back when I took my meds after the party so I'm well on my way down when I take sustiva? I know it maintains in your blood at relatively high levels for days, but my doc says taking those meds within 4-6 hours of the night before is OK once in a while, so following that logic I could take my meds at 3 am the night before like I normally would, take e around 11 or 12 the following night and not take my meds until 6 or 7am? (I know I know, I'm practically nocturnal sometimes).

I know some of you are going to roll your eyes and think I'm a stupid kid, but like i said this is a once a year sort of experience and I haven't been working so hard in the gym the past couple of years to not get sweaty on the dance floor and be ogled by many muscled men...

thanks
Adam

[Dachshund]

Before I get twelve stomped I want to make it absolutely clear that in no way am I advocating, condoning, or condemning your decision. I will simply relate my experience to you and you can make of it what you will.

It has been years, but when I first started on Sustiva I rolled several times with no apparent ill effects on my numbers or my buzz. That's what I'm basing it on, my numbers. My cd4's didn't decline and my viral load didn't increase. I do remember taking my meds when I got home or about seven hours later than usual.

As for GHB I tried it one time and that was enough for me. I puked all over the bar and bid a hasty retreat home. Course I'm not sure if it was the G or the 200 beers I drank that night.

So there you have it. Like I said the decision is yours to make and I'm sure opinions around here will vary. Whatever you decide to do I hope you have a fab time.  

 edited for typo

[AtomicA]

Thanks muchly! I would like to have a grand time and not a dead time. There will certainly be no drinking of anything except gatorade or water that night!

[next2u]

let me know what your research turns up.

[newone]

AtomicA,
I wish I could be there with you and share your recreational bits.

[planonstaying]

The only drugs I have read about that cause problems are meth and coke. I doubt anyone did an X study. it isn't the kind of thing anyone does daily w/o frying.  Back in the day when X was new I liked it on occasion. The people I knew who did a lot of X, lsd etc were really fully cooked and sad people. Gatorade has too  much sodium and will exasperate the stress on your heart  eat a banana and drink water!  I wouldnt do it but I'm not you. It sounds like you are making an informed choice

[northernguy]

...I know some of you are going to roll your eyes and think I'm a stupid kid, but like i said this is a once a year sort of experience and I haven't been working so hard in the gym the past couple of years to not get sweaty on the dance floor and be ogled by many muscled men...

thanks
Adam

Well it only takes once, plus I'd suspect that you would still get sweaty and ogled without them.  But its your chance to take...

[Cliff]

I doubt there are any significant interactions with your meds, or else we would have known it by now (given how long G and Sustiva have been out there).  G and protease inhibitors shouldn't be mixed, though. 

I assume you have taken it before.  If not, why bother.  I haven't taken it, but have seen someone who hadn't taken it before take too much.  They were OK (not a hospitalisation type event), but they were a mess.  If you've taken it before, then I assume you know there's a thin line between taking just enough and taking too much!  One big night out is unlikely to do any major harm, especially if you are only going to take a little bit.  Sounds like you're been reasonable about it.  I'd delay the HIV meds a bit.  People I know on Sustiva, take it at the end of the night once they've stopped the drugs/alcohol.  It helps them sleep/come down.

[Winiroo]

The three main causes of death after taking ecstasy are:

1. heat stroke - the heart speeds up and the body temperature rises above 40c

2. water toxicity - the drug releases vasopressin, a hormone which encourages water retention, and also a chemical that causes people to drink more fluids. The water is retained in the brain neurons and the pressure shuts down the main bodily functions

3. heart failure - the drug causes a rise in blood pressure and heart rate.

The fact that there is a death rate mentioned in websites dedicated to education on persons who would like to try E is enough to make me never want to touch the stuff.

GHB can damage the neurons in your brain, impairing your senses, memory, judgment, and coordination. People who use GHB people may experience nausea, drowsiness, dizziness, and breathing problems. Also, different amounts have different effects on people. In other words, no amount is safe.
GHB can kill you. Higher doses of club drugs, such as GHB, can cause severe breathing problems, coma, or even death.
GHB may also produce withdrawal effects including insomnia, anxiety, tremors, and sweating.


Doesn't sound like much of a party to me.
Good luck. I'd hate to hear bad news...

Wendy

[ryeguy]

It sounds like you have been working so hard for your future the past year. That is great! Is a party drug really the best way to reward yourself?

With Best Regards,

[AtomicA]

I know it's been a few weeks but I got kicked in the teeth a bit with finals and final papers.

I just wanted to let everyone know that the weekend went off without a hitch. I had done it before starting meds (not alot mind you) and I can honestly say that it didn't feel any different than from before. I'm not saying people should run out and do them either, the hang over was exactly as I remember it... ewwwwwwwwww. I timed things so that I took my meds a couple hours later the night before so that I could take them a few hours later than normal that night as to avoid any immediate combination reactions, in fact it was the same timing manipulation that I do when I go to Australia. I went for my clinic check up the following week and VL still undetectable with a CD4 count north of 500, where it has been for months.

thanks for everyone's responses

[Dachshund]

Party on Garth

[Winiroo]

Glad your not dead.

[Jeff G]

 I'm glad you had a good time , makes me wish I was young again .
 I did drugs every day for 12 years and never got addicted ( sarcasm )
 
 I wish I was one of the lucky ones that could leave it at the occasional
 recreational party guy thing , but its not too be .   

[AtomicA]

oh my, ever day? the hangover from e is like getting hit in the face with a rock. I can't imagine doing that more than once a year. other drugs are lame. really, drugs are lame.

[BT65]

I am extremely envious of people who can recreationally use drugs/booze.  Tonight was the final night of my university course; now I have the summer off.  If I wasn't a drug addict, I'd be out getting good and soused right now.  Damn it to hell.

[Jeff G]

 Betty, congratulations on your finals . I didn't know you had lernin 

[BT65]

Betty, congratulations on your finals . I didn't know you had lernin 

Yeah, and after summer break, hopefully only two more semesters.  Yay.

[ARMANDO]

i use to think that i was missing out on something because all of my friends,who were also hiv +,were  doing drugs like meth,coke,ghb.i use to think maybe i should have some fun and just let loose and forget this horrible disease even if it was just for a little while.i would like to ask my friends "hey lets party" but i can't ,not anymore,CAUSE THEY HAVE ALL DIED ,EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!!!!

[BT65]

i use to think that i was missing out on something because all of my friends,who were also hiv +,were  doing drugs like meth,coke,ghb.i use to think maybe i should have some fun and just let loose and forget this horrible disease even if it was just for a little while.i would like to ask my friends "hey lets party" but i can't ,not anymore,CAUSE THEY HAVE ALL DIED ,EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!!!!

Oh my.

[Miss Philicia]

Really Armando?  None of my friends like that are dead.  One went through out patient rehab though, cleaned up, got a college degree with a 4.0 and never went on HIV meds for the entire last decade of his diagnosis.  So much for hardcore meth addiction resulting in plummeting lab numbers.

Another HIV+ partying friend still does the occasional coke binges, and he's been on a med break for the last 3 years (he's been HIV+ for 16 years).

I'm not fond of pimping my anecdotal stuff on web forums, as obviously they can differ wildly from person to person, but for what it's worth there ya go.

[Miss Philicia]

And before the Hail Marys hit -- I'm not recommending hardcore partying to those that are young with HIV.  But if you enjoyed the occasional indulgence there's no need to become a monk or nun upon diagnosis (depending on what you're stating lab numbers are of course... this varies wildly if you are <200 cd4 when diagnosed as opposed to, say, 500).

So, you reduce your partying from every weekend to once a month.  And instead of staying out for 3 days straight you come home and take your meds after a night out (being sure to keep to your meal and sleep schedule as much as possible).  The REAL danger with partying is the lack of nutrition, hydration and sleep.

[carousel]

I've never lost anybody, apart from a friend of a friend situation.

I suppose it would be different if I'd lost a group of friends, but that's not the case.

Most friends only take drugs very occasionally and have largely given them up.

I'm glad I no longer do them.  It's was just getting too much, shovelling endless ketamine up my nose, my drug du jour up my nose until I collapsed or was a complete zombie.  Not a great look in a club.

From my own experience only, the sad thing is that alot of my friends, all roughly the same age (mid to late 30's) became infected about the same time.  The main contributory factor, as I see it, was drugs.

I don't do it now, partly because I can't afford it (probably the main reason), tiredness and that I was taking them when I was depressed and they were no longer working.

[Dachshund]

If you're gonna get all clinical and shit, you might as well skip it. Drugs should be done with spontaneity, recognizing a certain degree of danger. What fun is it to try and schedule your meds around a crack binge?

I've lost plenty of mates to da aids, but not a single one to drugs. Well, that's not quite right. An acquaintance of mine was shot and killed by a dealer as he tried to make off with a substantial amount of xtc.

Now we all sit around dying of boredom.

[Miss Philicia]

What fun is it to try and schedule your meds around a crack binge?

Oh, it's really not a big deal.  You just throw your pills in a small pill box and keep them in a pocket.  I used to do it all the time.

But I get your drift.  I'm not going to claim that I was perfect with it all, but I did make the effort.  Anyway, it worked for me.

[rondrond]

i use to think that i was missing out on something because all of my friends,who were also hiv +,were  doing drugs like meth,coke,ghb.i use to think maybe i should have some fun and just let loose and forget this horrible disease even if it was just for a little while.i would like to ask my friends "hey lets party" but i can't ,not anymore,CAUSE THEY HAVE ALL DIED ,EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!!!!

ditto

[Okealyshire]

Glad to hear that you had a successful evening, AtomicA. Like with most things in life, moderation is the key. So long as you keep your wits about yourself*, you'll be just fine and you'll belong to a large group of similar folk. Personally, I've never experienced any negative reactions from the occasional indulgence in a bit of good chem. (Well, ok, one annyoing negative reaction -- but easily counteracted with the fabulous little blue diamond!)

*Defined as: not tripping so much that you forget who/what/where/when you are, therefore able to remember to take your meds on time.

[SteveA]

Glad to hear you lived through it! I've seen way to many people "G-Out" in my time to ever want to do it again.

[BT65]

Well, I've lost friends (one just recently) due to accidental over-doses.  I had a friend when I was teen-ager who used to sniff glue.  When he turned 18, he was permanently commited to a mental hospital because of his brain being fried.  Sometimes I wonder if he's still alive. 

I have also known people who can do different drugs recreationally.  I wish I was one of them; unfortunately, I have no limits when it comes to such things.  I think I'm addicted to excitement and living life on the edge. 

[AtomicA]

my oh my it seems everyone has some experience in this regard!


e and weed are really the only drugs I would ever do. I've tried coke once and couldn't see what the fuss over it was. I was super chatty for 40 minutes then felt like garbage for a day. I feel the same when I drink redbull so it comes down to $1000 for a weekend of fun or $7. The one thing I did notice though after being diagnosed but before starting meds was that every time I did e I would end up with some sort of respiratory ailment a few days later, like a cold or a sinus infection. I'm not sure if that's because they run down your immune system or because of the environment (I may like a good pash here and there while rolling, not the most hygienic of activities). This time was ok though, felt a little stuffed up a week later but we also decided to revisit winter and got about 2 feet of snow in a week in April. that could have been it...

Now I just have to navigate things with the new boyfriend. He doesn't drink, smoke or do anything bad other than e. He seems to think that once a month or once every three weeks isn't 'doing it that often', while every medical journal I have consulted would seriously disagree. From experiences with my own behaviour while high and seeing how everyone else at a gay afterhours behaves I can definitely say that e + boyfriend = serious trust issues. Maybe it's cuz he's way to old for me, I'm 24 and he's 38 and maybe that sort of loose attitude towards sex, making out and rubbing up against strangers while rolling in a club is a natural progression of a gay mans life but wow, I am having difficulty with it. If we're there together it's one thing but the idea of my boyfriend being high in a club in another city (he travels alot for work) knowing what goes on there gives me a tight knotted feeling in my chest.

such a simple molecule, such a complicated concept.

regardless, that weekend was a definite learning experience

[AtomicA]

as for the meds, if I were to do it again I would be sure to bring them in a little baggie or box. I got so sweaty dancing last time that the coating of them melted off in my pocket, a half hour longer and they would have started falling apart!

[Miss Philicia]

The one thing I did notice though after being diagnosed but before starting meds was that every time I did e I would end up with some sort of respiratory ailment a few days later, like a cold or a sinus infection. I'm not sure if that's because they run down your immune system or because of the environment

That's just being in a club with bad ventilation for a long duration and around other people who have an infection.  It's easily passed along.

[Okealyshire]

That's just being in a club with bad ventilation for a long duration and around other people who have an infection.  It's easily passed along.

Although I've experienced similar symptoms (cold, sinus infection) after a night of chem even without ever leaving the house. I suspect there's some truth to the notion that speed -- or the recovery phase -- weakens immune response.

[Queen Tokelove]

Wow...I did an occasional line of coke here and there back in the day...Aw shucks, actually I was like a freaking hoover and I could drink like a fish. Now I drink girlie stuff like margaritas and Arbor Mist. Use to love acid but was never an acid head but wouldn't do it today. I'll take the good green any day. All I get is the urge to eat. Weed, it does a body good...uh, well, my body it does....

Glad you had your fun. Now what does your bf think about you taking a toke of the green, laddie?

[buca45]

After 16+ years of being a member of this very elite and of the moment club, I will admit, I still do E, Coke and Pot a few times a month and all is going well.
At 48+, maybe it is time to slow it down a bit, but to me, I am harming no one by my partying and if only for a few hours, the HIV thoughts are out of my mind totally.
Last weekend, we had a good amount of white, 10 hits of E for 3 days and a good bag of smoke. The first half of this week was a bit hard to get started, but like the hundreds of party weekends before, all is fine now.
I have stayed relatively healthy and my numbers have been great for years.
The way I see it, I have the virus, it does not have me!
Like everything else, it is all your choice and no one but you can decide what is right for you.
Happy Partying!!!!!!!