Clarification please

[tal63]

I have read quite a bit about relative risks (or non-risk based on your HIV lesson) regarding oral sex. Thank you for your clear-cut message. My question revolves around exposure to vaginal secretions. Other than "full, insertive" vaginal sex, there is VERY little discussion regarding vaginal fluid exposure.

Quite often, partners rub their genitals together without this "full" penetration. I would agree that in this case the vast amount of skin-to-skin contact is with the shaft of the penis (ususally the underside) and the outer portion of the vagina, but it seems there is a significant chance that the head of the penis can come in contact with the inside of the outer lips, or even be between them to some extent. If this happens:

1. Is the contact now regarded as insertive?
2. Are vaginal secretions typically present in "enough quantity" in this area for there to be a significant risk that they could enter through the tip of the urethra and expose the male to HIV?
3. Further, if the male had an ulcerative STD, no open sores, could the same level of contact be a route to infection?

I believe that this is sufficient enough for transmission of other STDs, particularly HPV and HSV. I guess what I am asking is if the risk of these situations "theoretical" just as oral sex was listed, or are there documented cases of HIV transmission via these activities and situations?

Thanks, tal63

[Ann]

1. Is the contact now regarded as insertive?
2. Are vaginal secretions typically present in "enough quantity" in this area for there to be a significant risk that they could enter through the tip of the urethra and expose the male to HIV?
3. Further, if the male had an ulcerative STD, no open sores, could the same level of contact be a route to infection?

tal,

1. No
2. No
3. An ulcerative STI or no open sore, which is it? An ulcer is an open sore. It is unlikely this would increase the risk during frottage. However, anyone with open sores on their penis should not be rubbing their penis on another person's body. Why? Not because of any risk to the owner of the penis, but because of the risk to the penis owner's partner of transmitting whatever is causing the sore.

I have yet to come across a case of hiv transmission via frottage. (frottage is the term for rubbing genitals together) Frottage is not a risk for hiv infection.

Ann

[tal63]

Ann,

Thanks for the quick, and clear, reply. What I meant regarding the STD was , for example, if a person had HSV but was not having an obvious outbreak.

I agree 100% that someone with knowledge that they have an STD should not be engaging in frottage. I was simply trying to create conditions where the outer vaginal lips (and the vaginal secretions located there) could come in contact with some condition that would permit HIV potential access. I guess maybe the real question was about the "amount and virulence" of any vaginal secretions in this area, and the potential for transmission.

Thanks again, tal63

[tal63]

I think I'm supposed to use the same thread even if my question changes. If not, please forgive me.

I'm curious about the validity of some of the internet advertised rapid  HIV tests. In particular, there is a test called "FirstVue™ HIV-1&2 a/g Gold Rapid Test Kit" sold by AT First Diagnostic LLC. I cant' find any feedback or comments about this product on the net.

Any idea of the quality/accuracy of this product?

tal63

[Ann]

tal,

The only FDA approved test kit available over the internet, for use in the home, is Home Access. Don't bother with the others.

Ann

[tal63]

Ann,

Just what I thought, thanks again.

tal63