POZ Community Forums
Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Questions About Treatment & Side Effects => Topic started by: Hoover on February 04, 2011, 11:59:54 am
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I did a search for any threads on HIV and HGH but didn't find anything pertinent.
Yesterday while at our ant-aging doctor's office, he suggested we start daily injections of HGH.
After a little searching on the net we found some interesting information which is listed below.
Has anyone in this group tried the HGH for over a 6 month period?
My partner and I will start it in a week and see how it goes.
My partner will most likely start meds next week as his CD4s are not risen since his conversion 6 months ago.
It will be interesting to see how HGH affects one of us on meds and one not on meds, or doesn't affect us.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art2545.html
Cheers,
Hoover and the partner
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HGH has a tendency to cause diabetes which is a price too high for me.
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Because you will not be using if for what it's prescribed for ( HGH deficiency or HIV/AIDS related wasting...)
Are you really wanting to risk:
Side Effects of HGH
Use of HGH under medical supervision for HGH deficiency is safe and will have few side effects. The risk of side effects increase when HGH is taken in higher doses without any medical supervision.
The most common side effect of the excess use of HGH is acromegaly. This is a medical condition that begins with the overgrowth of facial bone and connective tissue, leading to a changed appearance due to protruding jaw and eyebrow bones. This condition also leads to an abnormal growth of the hands and feet with an increased growth of hair all over the body. Contrary to increasing your life, this condition will shorten life expectancy considerably.
Mentioned here are just some of the known side effects of the undue use of HGH.
-- Acromegaly (as described in detail above)
-- Premature death (in case of acromegaly)
-- Heart enlargement (due to prolonged use of HGH. Can't be reversed)
-- Low blood sugar with risk of going into a diabetic coma
-- Excessive hair growth all over the body
-- Excessive water retention
-- Liver damage
-- Thyroid damage
HGH from reputed manufacturers are safe if used under proper supervision, but they come with a small disadvantage; they are expensive. Many who take HGH without supervision buy spurious products that come at a lower price. The side effects of indiscriminate use of HGH is bad, and it just gets worse when counterfeit products are used. Persons who share needles to inject themselves with HGH are at a high risk of transmission of blood-borne viruses (the deadliest and most common being the AIDS virus).
Beware of Beneficial Claims of HGH Made by Quacks
Many HGH marketers will make you believe that HGH can solve a variety of human deficiencies. They claim that taking HGH supplements will strengthen your immune system, grow thick hair on a bald head, build muscle fast making you look like a bodybuilder, increase your stamina and improve your sex life, improve your memory like never before, improve your vision to perfection, burn down fat without exercising or giving up your favorite junk foods; this list can just go on and on. If all these claims were true, there would be no illness around, everyone would have the perfect body without doing anything and we would all be living in a world where nothing could be made more pefect
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/human-growth-hormone-hgh-side-effects.html (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/human-growth-hormone-hgh-side-effects.html)
anti-aging doctor? really?
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anti-aging doctor? really?
That was my thought as well -- wtf is an "anti-aging" doctor? I smell a quack.
I agree that everyone needs to take care of themselves and their bodies as they get older. I don't think HGH is the way to do it. Wouldn't a day at the spa and some botox be cheaper, safer, and more enjoyable?
I think you need to be careful that what you are getting is really HGH, and be sure that you completely understand the potential consequences of taking HGH, which are serious.
Regards,
Henry
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The OP is well known to be an avowed fan of quack remedies and subscriber to lunatic fringe theories. He believes that fluoride is being used to poison water supplies (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=36114.msg449468#msg449468), that naltrexone might "boost" one's immune function (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=36159.msg450204#msg450204), that coconut oil has a valid role in HIV treatment (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=35943.msg450476#msg450476) and that eating yoghurt will prevent you catching a cold. (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=35629.msg443485#msg443485)
Then there's all the stuff about off-label use of testosterone.
So should it surprise us that Hoov is considering taking HGH as some sort of Youth Elixir? Probably not. It's par for the course with this fella. Should he do it? That's a matter for him. HGH (as the Shark notes above) can cause numerous serious health problems.
For me there is a certain satisfying symmetry in knowing that Hoov's body could soon become as irreversibly twisted and deformed as his world view.
But other people who read his threads should be aware of the dangers involved in this sort of crack-pot, patent medicine pushing non-scientific nut baggery.
Don't do as Hoov does.
MtD
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That was my thought as well -- wtf is an "anti-aging" doctor? I smell a quack.
Well, I've never heard of an "anti-aging" doctor before, perhaps they need to see a psychiatrist ::)
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Henry,
Since you are the only one who has responded that is not on my ignore list,
I can answer you! ;D
Not sure why anyone would have an issue with an anti-aging doctor, he is a MD who specializes in aging and is accredited in Europe. HIV mimics aging, so why not treat it as such?
We do the testosterone implants and hormone pills, anti-oxidants and feel great.
Thus far my GP and ID doctors (none of them are associated with the others) are happy with the choice of the anti-aging doctor.
As they will all monitor our progress, I think we are safe.
What I was looking for was someone, from the thousands who visit this site, who has done this.
Could we be the first?
Cheers,
Hoover and the other
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Henry,
Since you are the only one who has responded that is not on my ignore list,
I can answer you! ;D
Not sure why anyone would have an issue with an anti-aging doctor, he is a MD who specializes in aging and is accredited in Europe. HIV mimics aging, so why not treat it as such?
We do the testosterone implants and hormone pills, anti-oxidants and feel great.
Thus far my GP and ID doctors (none of them are associated with the others) are happy with the choice of the anti-aging doctor.
As they will all monitor our progress, I think we are safe.
What I was looking for was someone, from the thousands who visit this site, who has done this.
Could we be the first?
Cheers,
Hoover and the other
hmmmmm
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And like proud Icarus who soared too high, touch the wingėd sun, plummet to the sea
said the poet.
HGH has specific indications and speculative application in cases of HIV wasting and lipodystrophy. The pay-off is high risk of insulin resistance, cancer, excess bone growth etc. Then you have to stop and look at Dorian Gray's picture. Which might not be a bad option if it's of critical importance, but as general medicine is deffo off-label. The effect on immunity is especially speculative (if plausible, but then so is living on Mars).
Undoubtedly it will make you feel good, but so does a decent line of coke.
People pays their pounds and makes their choices. Me, I'd rather give the money to the Global Fund and drink a bit more wine while I think about me wrinkles.
- matt
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Hoover
It's odd you didn't find much, because use of HGH was a relatively mainstream question at one point. You might want to try your search on the main poz search engine instead of just the Forums search (you might also look for "serostim" which is the synthetic version of HGH).
There's been a lot of interest in HGH, particularly as a way of dealing with lipo problems. But most of the safety data says HGH injections are pretty risky and that you are better off stepping back one metabolic pathway or so and using a drug to stimulate your body to step up your body's own HGH production. That's what tesamorelin (aka Egrifta) does.
However, the main point to note is that the question of whether it makes sense to use HGH has been posed... and the answer was that there are better approaches.
A
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Henry,
Since you are the only one who has responded that is not on my ignore list,
I can answer you! ;D
I think it's a shame you have these responders on your ignore list, because they have provided some very valuable advice. I don't think it is wise to ignore people just because they have different opinions than you do.
HIV mimics aging, so why not treat it as such?
I've not seen any scientific studies with this conclusion.
We do the testosterone implants and hormone pills, anti-oxidants and feel great.
Clearly you are not afraid to pump your body full of medications, supplements, hormones, and who knows what else. So nothing I can say will dissuade you. But if you feel so great, why do you need to start adding in HGH?
Thus far my GP and ID doctors (none of them are associated with the others) are happy with the choice of the anti-aging doctor. As they will all monitor our progress, I think we are safe.
Side-effects of undue use of HGH include, Acromegaly, Heart enlargement (due to prolonged use of HGH. Can't be reversed), Low blood sugar with risk of going into a diabetic coma, Excessive hair growth all over the body, Excessive water retention, Liver damage, and Thyroid damage.
What I was looking for was someone, from the thousands who visit this site, who has done this.
Could we be the first?
Quite possibly. Seeing an anti-aging doctor is a luxury that most people can't afford, and don't need.
The last thing I'll say here is that I think your plans to use HGH are dangerous, and I don't advise others to do as you are doing. Reading through some of your previous posts on things like fluoride, naltrexone, and coconut oil, it's clear to me that you are likely only looking to hear from people who support your views.
Will I end up on your ignore list too?
Regards,
Henry
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I think it's a shame you have these responders on your ignore list, because they have provided some very valuable advice. I don't think it is wise to ignore people just because they have different opinions than you do.
Like all ignorants, he only uses it to make a point, thus him telling us he ignores us. But we know he peeks. :)
Will I end up on your ignore list too?
No doubt you will and, like the rest of us, you should wear it as a badge of honour.
MtD
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What are "hormone pills" ?
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Hey Hoover,
I think the others have already said it pretty well. Using HGH is risky business. I can see no benefit from it whatsoever for those with HIV.
While we are at it, I disagree with you, HIV doesn't mimic aging. Living with it long term may cause the onset of some issues associated with aging, but HGH won't prevent that.
You wonder whether you are the first to consider using HGH. My guess would be yes, and for a couple of good reasons.
I don't know anyone else willing to take the risks or who has the money for this type of stuff.
While on that subject, take it from someone who has heard enough snake oil spiels to last a lifetime. There is no such thing as anti-aging and any advice given by a doctor specializing in "anti-aging" would be suspect in my book.
HUGS,
Mark
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Well according to the gossips, Madonna sucks the blood of young boys to stay forever young. Plus plastic surgery. Plus dramatic exercise routines. Who knows, people like her probably do see "anti-aging docs" to hear about treatments to stay "ageless" or "eternally youthful".
I personally wouldn't poo-poo the validity of aging and "anti-aging" as a medical specialty. Intellectually. "Politically" It seems very boutique and for the rarified few. But I would jump at the chance to be lucky enough to be followed by such a doc if he or she were really professional.
There is a dermatologist for the jet set in Geneva who is known to work "miracles". Why do we have to dismiss it just because its for the rich?
For a couple of years in New York in the 80s' I had executive health benefits - covered everything conceivable. Followed by enough specialists for a few years, I felt, and looked, and was, tip top.
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Thank you all, who are not on my ignore list, for your concern. I appreciate your thoughts.
Don't worry Henry, I would never hit ignore to someone who is genuinally concerned for others well being and doesn't already have a track record!
This is an odd site where it seems that all we hear and allowed to say unopposed is take your meds and shut up.
My ideas are possibly out there and not for most people, but I am the one who will ultimately get the reward or pay the cost. With three independent doctors monitoring my progress and living with another one, I suspect if anything unpleasant shows up, we will take appropriate actions.
I am more likely to die from driving the highways, whitewater rafting or flying the helicopter than abusing meds.
Back to my question, is there anyone else out there who has done this.
Please feel free to send a private note if you are uncomfortable discussing it openly.
Cheers,
Hoover and that guy
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Thank you all, who are not on my ignore list, for your concern. I appreciate your thoughts.
Don't worry Henry, I would never hit ignore to someone who is genuinally concerned for others well being and doesn't already have a track record!
This is an odd site where it seems that all we hear and allowed to say unopposed is take your meds and shut up. .....
My ideas are possibly out there and not for most people, but I am the one who will ultimately get the reward or pay the cost.
Cheers,
Hoover and that guy
you don't get it do you?
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This is an odd site where it seems that all we hear and allowed to say unopposed is take your meds and shut up.
Cheers,
Hoover and that guy
What a load of horse crap. Not only does this site discuss the various meds and alternatives, but we have never told anyone to "take their meds and shut up." We DO correct people who make unfounded claims and pass them off as science.
Seems that shortly after you came here, you decided you were against many of us. This is not a big deal. But rest assured, we will NOT allow you to drag this site into denialist territory with your claims and "credentials."
And rest assured I will personally report every post in which you insult the forum of its members. I honestly do not think that this has been a great fit for you, since you have been forced to ignore almost the entire senior membership.
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I've used HGH for years on and off... even before I was HIV infected. I "micro-dose" it according to the information published in "Grow Young With HGH."
http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Young-HGH-Amazing-Medically/dp/0060984341 (http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Young-HGH-Amazing-Medically/dp/0060984341)
The HGH anti-aging rage started around 1990 when a study of HGH in the elderly demonstrated good results.
http://www.hgh-research.org/elderly.htm (http://www.hgh-research.org/elderly.htm)
The doses that AIDS patients use are about 20-30 times what I use. I constitute 10IU with 300cc of bacteriostatic water. I inject around 15cc once/day.
I have sufferered no side-effects and credit HGH with increasing my TCell count after it seemed to be stuck in the 200s, to reach the 400s. When I stopped HGH, though, it fell and I had to restart it. It took over a year to make that climb and I was having blood draws every 3 months at that time. However, after stopping HGH, the TCELL fall started in no more than three months and proceeded quite precipitously. I took six months to turn stabilize it again and get it to start rising again. Maybe coincidence?
HGH's effects on TCell increase is well documented by studies done by the Gladstone Institute.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art15834.html (http://www.thebody.com/content/art15834.html)
Personnally, I don't really feel any different with the possible exception that I believe it may increase my endurance. Maybe this is a placebo effect, but it is a documented affect of HGH. I'm pushing 55 and can run six miles on the treadmill in 46 minutes and my resting pulse in the morning before I rouse myself from bed, is 38-40 beats/minute.
http://www.teachpe.com/cloze/human_growth_hormone.htm (http://www.teachpe.com/cloze/human_growth_hormone.htm)
If you're thinking about doing this, I would recommend buying and reading Grow Young With HGH. I'm not sure if it's been updated in recent years, but it documents a lot of data involving HGH dosages used for anti-aging therapy and side effects associated with escalating doses.
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Hoover,
If you do a simple search of human growth hormone and HIV you will see that it has been in use, on and off, for nearly twenty years in people with HIV and that there are hundreds of stories (many on AIDSmeds) about this topic. Real synthetic HGH is expensive, the side effect list is long and serious, and the company that manufactures Serostim tried for years to get the FDA to approve it as a treatment for lipodystrophy, but failed due to concerns about side effects and marginal efficacy. I'd encourage you to read this information thoroughly, rather than just flinging out a random challenge to have people "tell you" about their experience.
Here's the thing about a forum like this, it is designed to help you hear from a broad cross section of people, not just a small group of people who act as cheerleaders for whatever you choose to do. You can place as many people here on ignore as you like. While that may weed out the voices of some you find objectionable, it can also limit you from getting valuable feedback.
Either way, please watch your provocative tone and statements. We don't take kindly to people who start flamewars and your earlier post edges close in that direction.
David
Moderator
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When I was living in San Diego in the 90's my doctor offered me serostim HGH along with testosterone . I was on it for almost a year .
I cant say what caused what but my thyroid is shot and I am now a diabetic with nerve damage through out my body . I would hope that anyone who's doctor is considering using these drugs to seek a second or even a third opinion .
Cardiovascular exercise and weight training is a healthy way to maintain a strong body . There is not a pill or shot for everything in life , some things you have to get the hard way through work .
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Henry,
Since you are the only one who has responded that is not on my ignore list,
I can answer you! ;D
Wait a tick, why the hell am I on your ignore list? Granted if I really am you can't read this right now, but what did I do to deserve being ignored? I guess I know who one of the 5 are. I have some really good guesses about the others but I really feel this one is un-deserved.
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I once read that white zin cures everything, and that's what I wanted to hear and have taken it to heart. I regularly over-dose though....lol
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Wait a tick, why the hell am I on your ignore list? Granted if I really am you can't read this right now, but what did I do to deserve being ignored? I guess I know who one of the 5 are. I have some really good guesses about the others but I really feel this one is un-deserved.
Chile please. Remember them days when ya used to roll with the mean girls? Well, that's what has gotten you on the ignore list for some heads. Guilty by association.
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Since you are the only one who has responded that is not on my ignore list,
I can answer you! ;D
Thank you all, who are not on my ignore list, for your concern.
Hoover, further to what David Evans said to you, I'm going to be more specific.
While we do encourage members to use the ignore button on people they do not wish to hear from, we do NOT encourage members to use their use of the ignore button as a means to belittle or flame others. That is EXACTLY how you are using it, so knock it off. It's nothing more than childish taunting.
If I ever see you referencing your use of the ignore button again like you have done in the posts I quoted above, you will be given a time out.
Please consider yourself warned, and thank you for your cooperation.
Ann
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Thanks for the note Mitch!
You were what I was looking for in this thread.
My dosage is to be 0.75 cc per day. (Corrected)
Talk about Micro!
I've used HGH for years on and off... even before I was HIV infected. I "micro-dose" it according to the information published in "Grow Young With HGH."
http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Young-HGH-Amazing-Medically/dp/0060984341 (http://www.amazon.com/Grow-Young-HGH-Amazing-Medically/dp/0060984341)
The HGH anti-aging rage started around 1990 when a study of HGH in the elderly demonstrated good results.
http://www.hgh-research.org/elderly.htm (http://www.hgh-research.org/elderly.htm)
The doses that AIDS patients use are about 20-30 times what I use. I constitute 10IU with 30cc of bacteriostatic water. I inject around 15cc once/day.
I have sufferered no side-effects and credit HGH with increasing my TCell count after it seemed to be stuck in the 200s, to reach the 400s. When I stopped HGH, though, it fell and I had to restart it. It took over a year to make that climb and I was having blood draws every 3 months at that time. However, after stopping HGH, the TCELL fall started in no more than three months and proceeded quite precipitously. I took six months to turn stabilize it again and get it to start rising again. Maybe coincidence?
HGH's effects on TCell increase is well documented by studies done by the Gladstone Institute.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art15834.html (http://www.thebody.com/content/art15834.html)
Personnally, I don't really feel any different with the possible exception that I believe it may increase my endurance. Maybe this is a placebo effect, but it is a documented affect of HGH. I'm pushing 55 and can run six miles on the treadmill in 46 minutes and my resting pulse in the morning before I rouse myself from bed, is 38-40 beats/minute.
http://www.teachpe.com/cloze/human_growth_hormone.htm (http://www.teachpe.com/cloze/human_growth_hormone.htm)
If you're thinking about doing this, I would recommend buying and reading Grow Young With HGH. I'm not sure if it's been updated in recent years, but it documents a lot of data involving HGH dosages used for anti-aging therapy and side effects associated with escalating doses.
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I guess this proves that if you want something bad enough no matter how ill advised it is you can find a doctor to give it to you even if you have to move to the jungle to find it .
I wonder how youthful an aging anti-aging doctor looks .
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I am also wondering how or why this is in the Living With forum.
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that was fast
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I guess this proves that if you want something bad enough no matter how ill advised it is you can find a doctor to give it to you even if you have to move to the jungle to find it .
I wonder how youthful an aging anti-aging doctor looks .
The doc in Geneva is beautiful, and she's very nice too.
I don't think its true you can always find a doctor to give you what you want. I've been begging docs for testosterone or Adderall or some kind of upper and no doc will give it to me. Funny, they'll give you SSRI's, they'll be fine with smoking weed, no problem with booze - all ways to change your mind a bit to see things differently or get out of a rut. But no one will give me a zest pill.
Also, the crack about the "jungle" seems snide and maybe, carelessly, racist or colonialist.
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Also, the crack about the "jungle" seems snide and maybe, carelessly, racist or colonialist.
seems like you are taking this out of context.
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Also, the crack about the "jungle" seems snide and maybe, carelessly, racist or colonialist.
To the ends of the earth to get what you want perhaps then if it must be explained . I replied to this thread because I care about people and have experience on this subject . I think most people on this board knows my motivation and probably wonders more about your motivation for writing such things .
I have by in large been nice to most people here and stand by what I said in this thread .
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I dont have a motivation. I know that Hoover lives in a tropical (Central American?) country and I interpreted your quote to mean something along these lines: "you can get what you want from jungle doctors in Banana Republics" or something to that effect.
Where as I was just trying to say there really are serious doctors who will go there - "anti-aging" - for wont of a better term. And I don't know anything about HGH but just think its not productive in a global forum to belittle what is offered medically in other countries. I know for a fact there are subtle differences in how the Swiss docs treat than how American docs treat. So thats all I'm saying. What's the point of dragging the loaded word "jungle" into this.
If that is not what you meant, then I clearly misinterpreted it so sorry for that.
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I dont have a motivation. I know that Hoover lives in a tropical (Central American?) country and I interpreted your quote to mean something along these lines: "you can get what you want from jungle doctors in Banana Republics" or something to that effect.
Where as I was just trying to say there really are serious doctors who will go there - "anti-aging" - for wont of a better term. And I don't know anything about HGH but just think its not productive in a global forum to belittle what is offered medically in other countries. I know for a fact there are subtle differences in how the Swiss docs treat than how American docs treat. So thats all I'm saying. What's the point of dragging the loaded word "jungle" into this.
If that is not what you meant, then I clearly misinterpreted it so sorry for that.
but unfortunately, the OP's use of HGH has nothing to do with HIV, which is why many of us are responding to this thread. It has nothing to do with trying to belittle or bully someone.
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I've been begging docs for testosterone or Adderall or some kind of upper and no doc will give it to me.
Gee docs give her something, the girls a mess.
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So the "jungle" was just a clumsy word, then. Ok cool with me.
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Is not HAART medication already anti aging.
Everyone keeps on telling me that I look a lot younger then 45 and I keep on looking younger.