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Author Topic: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count  (Read 3414 times)

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Offline Hopeful2016

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Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« on: June 04, 2017, 03:34:42 pm »
Hey dear forum members...
Hoping you are all well...
So I'm somehow adapted to my new normal life... I'm having labs done every three months :
My last two labs over a period of six months shows a decreased cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count as follows :-
In April 2016 cd4 count 599 cd4 percent 27% cd8 count 666 cd8 percent 30% vl undetectable
In November 2016 cd4 count 736 cd4 percent 36.8% cd8 count 642 cd8 percent 32.1% vl undetectable
Until this all was normal
Then in March 2017 cd4 count 789 cd4 percent 34% cd8 count 673 cd8 percent 29% vl undetectable
In june 2017 cd4 count 798 cd4 percent 30% cd8 count 725cd8 percent 28% (still waiting vl results)

So...in two results in a row i lost 7 % cd4 count and cd8 count increasing???
Is this normal?
I can say I'm now concerned...anyone had any experience like that?
Thank you

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 08:41:22 pm »
CD4's like anything in the body will fluctuate. If I had your results I would be perfectly happy.

The medication does not regulate your CD4's , the body does. All the medication does is suppress the HIV so it no longer killing them and doing other damage to you. So as long as remain UD there is nothing to worry about if you ask me.

Jim
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 10:10:30 pm »
There is nothing really out of the ordinary with your results.  You really should focus on the undetectable VL and not so much on your CD4s at this point.

However, just to show you that what you are seeing is not "bad" - over the last 5 years, my CD4 count as fluctuated between a low of 497 and a high of 1086, while my CD4% has been between 26 and 36%.  My VL has been UD since first getting there back in 2007.

At this point, I see no reason to be concerned with your results -- especially if you are maintaining a UD VL.

Rest easy!!

Mike

Edited to fix two typos

Offline Hopeful2016

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 01:28:41 am »
CD4's like anything in the body will fluctuate.
Thank you Jim for your reassurance :) but does cd4 percentage also fluctuate?
I was under the impression that cd4 count always change and fluctuate and we must focus on cd4 percentage because it's more stable and it's the most reliable indicator.

Offline Hopeful2016

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 01:33:48 am »
while my CD4% has been between 26 and 36%.  My VL has been UD since first getting there back in 2007.
Thanks Mike for your feedback... Seeing replys from you guys gives me a huge relief 😊
What concerns me is the persistent decline from 36.8% to 34% to 30 %...I'm just afraid to continue like this.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 04:39:00 am »
Your looking at a few snapshot moments as long as its more than 14% or a total count of 200 you should not be too concerned at all.

30% is great and perhaps this is just your % just settling to your normal, who knows.  The % will vary and can be affected by many and varied reasons-i.e. stress, time of the day, other infections, recent illness, recent vaccination, lab errors , life etc etc etc, its just less dramatic or more stable in general than the total count, this does not mean its not subject to variation.

Anyhow your numbers if they were mine would not worry me. Tends to be that we would all like a constant high number but it does not work like this even in HIV negative people, it just they don't know it hence don't stress about it ;)   

Jim
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 04:42:16 am by JimDublin »
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Offline Hopeful2016

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 06:16:45 am »
Thanks jim for your reassurance  ;)
Really appreciate  :)

Offline harleymc

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 06:29:17 am »
Your cd4 counts have increased to more than 5 times the levels I have and I have great health.

Offline Hopeful2016

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 07:23:35 am »
Your cd4 counts have increased to more than 5 times the levels I have and I have great health.
Wish you a healthy and happy life ;)

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2017, 03:44:10 pm »
Thank you Jim for your reassurance :) but does cd4 percentage also fluctuate?
I was under the impression that cd4 count always change and fluctuate and we must focus on cd4 percentage because it's more stable and it's the most reliable indicator.

I see that this has caused confusion.

It is true that the CD4% is a generally more stable indicator than CD4 but the only time that matters is if you saw a downward trend of CD4 counts. If there was a concern with CD4 then the % may be looked at to provide a clearer picture.

In your case, the CD4 count is fine, and you are UD so no damage is being done - or at least, no damage from HIV.

So relax on this one. Your numbers are great.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 05:15:31 pm »
Thanks Mike for your feedback... Seeing replys from you guys gives me a huge relief 😊
What concerns me is the persistent decline from 36.8% to 34% to 30 %...I'm just afraid to continue like this.

So -- when I look at the results you've provided -- your CD4% jumped just about 10% from Apr 2016 to Nov 2016, but you weren't concerned about that "fluctuation".  You are only concerned about a "fluctuation" that is downward (but only 7%)?

Two things:

1.  It is human nature to be concerned about "bad" but not about "good", so this isn't surprising.  I bring it up only to help you see that they CAN fluctuate -- just normally not as much as the absolute CD4 count.
2.  From the results you've shared, I'd say that the 36.8% is the real outlier and not what you should be using as a baseline for this "drop".  In fact, if you look at the last year -- you're CD% has gone UP from 27% to 30%.

Bottomline -- your lab results seem to be good -- your VL is UD, which is the single most important measure of HIV health.  If these results were mine, I would not be worried at all.  You have more than enough CD4 cells to keep you healthy.

Mike

Offline Hopeful2016

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Re: Decreasing cd4 percent and increasing cd8 count
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2017, 04:06:31 am »
So relax on this one. Your numbers are great.
Thank you cavey for your reassurance ☺

 


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