Only have had oral sex

[Musicman55456]

I have been with 6 different people one of them multiple encounters. I have only given and recieved oral never had anal or vaginal. I never used a condom. The last time was end of may of last year. Am I fine? I kind of have flu like symptoms and have had weight gain in my stomach recently.  I have been eating unhealthy recently though.  I also had the stomach flu 3 times since september

[Musicman55456]

Also Never swallowed cum stopped right before they cummed. I think one time my friend swallowed mine by accident.

[Musicman55456]

I have been with 6 different people one of them multiple encounters. I have only given and recieved oral never had anal or vaginal. I never used a condom. The last time was end of may of last year. Am I fine? I kind of have flu like symptoms and have had weight gain in my stomach recently.  I have been eating unhealthy recently though.  I also had the stomach flu 3 times since september. Also I never swallowed cum I always stopped right before they cummed.

[Andy Velez]

Our rule as stated in the opening thread of this section is that members must always write only in their original thread. I have merged your entries here. Please use only this thread.

As far as your latest concern, giving oral is only theoretically a risk. Your saliva contains over a dozen elements and proteins which act as a very effective barrier to the transmission of viable HIV.

What you are calling symptoms are not in any way HIV specific. You should discuss them with your doctor. There is no cause for concern about HIV nor is there any need for testing.

[Musicman55456]

Sorry about that. Also I thought flu like symptoms were a sign of HIV? I'm also kind of tired a lot during the day even if I get 8 to 9 hours of sleep.

[Andy Velez]

You need to know for now and for the future that neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms will ever tell you anything accurately about your HIV status. Only an HIV specific test can give you that answer.

But you haven't had a risk and so there is no need for testing. If your tiredness persists you should discuss it with your doctor. There are so many possible causes that have nothing to do with HIV. And fatigue is not in any way an HIV specific happening. Really.

[Musicman55456]

Not to keep bugging you. But every other site I have been on has said that you can get HIV from oral sex. People have even reported getting it from oral. Also my stomach feels like I need to throw up but can't but then around 4 or 5 pm it goes away and I feel 95% fine. I can't eat during the day so at night I eat a ton of food but then it all goes to my stomach like last night I stayed up til 5 am

[Musicman55456]

I also am afraid that if I go to the doctor I will find out I'm positive. I dint know why I think this way.

[Andy Velez]

You need to stop searching the web because all you will do is find more material to feed your worst fears. And all to no good purpose.

Longterm studies of sero-discordant couples. (both gay and straight), have been conducted in which there was a lot of mutual unprotected oral sex and only protected vaginal and anal intercourse. The results have been that not a single sero-negative partner became infected.

You are worrying yourself needlessly. Cut it out and get on with your life. Discuss your "symptoms" with a doctor. They have nothing to do with HIV but they do sound as if possibly stress/worry related. But check with your doc.

[Musicman55456]

Maybe though symptoms are because I'm worried to much about this. But how come I have read about people just getting HIV from oral sex? Also why do I have so much fat around my stomach but I'm skinny every where else?

[Andy Velez]

You may not like the answers but your main issue has been answered.

If you want to you can always get tested and collect the inevitable negative result.

If you are concerned about fat around your stomach that is something to discuss with your doctor. It sure as heck is not specifically a symptom of HIV.

And if you continue to searching the web I can promise you that you'll find lots to spook yourself with. But you still didn't have a risk.

We can't do anything else for you in this setting. If you continue to return about this non-risk you are going to find yourself getting a Time Out from the site.

Fears and doubts aren't facts. And the facts as you have reported them equal no risk.

[jkinatl2]

Maybe though symptoms are because I'm worried to much about this. But how come I have read about people just getting HIV from oral sex? Also why do I have so much fat around my stomach but I'm skinny every where else?

You have heard about people reporting getting HIV from oral sex because, prior to 1996 and the advent of successful treatment of HIV, people were not getting diagnosed early, and were usually dead within a few years - sick well before that. There was NO WAY to document or verify reported transmission vectors, except for the HIGHLY unreliable soft-science of patient report. Which is a nice way of saying anecdote.

And here is what you need to know about patient report - it is HIGHLY unreliable. People get drunk or do drugs and forget having penetrative sex. People are intimidated by the lab coats and the doctors office and they lie. People think that they will be perceived as "less guilty," or even worse, an "innocent victim" if they only disclose to what has ALWAYS been considered a negligible risk insofar as HIV is concerned.

And until 1996, there was no way to even perform a long term experiment on serodiscordant couples (where one is positive and the other is negative) to determine what factors, exactly, occur to facilitate oral transmission.

However, three researchers, Dr. J del Romero and Dr. Kimberly Page-Shafer, from Spain and the US respectively, embarked on three separate long term studies with serodiscordant couples. The criteria they used was as follows: These couples used condoms consistently and correctly for penetrative anal and vaginal sex, but did NOT use condoms for oral sex (either giving or receiving fellatio and cunnilingus.)

These studies were meant to determine what factors exactly led to oral transmission, as the reported cases of oral transmission were at total odds with what we had learned in the lab, in petri dish study, and primate studies with HIV, SIV, and SHIV.

After all, it is impossible to scientifically quantify an event that we cannot prove to have taken place.

At the end of these studies, which lasted ten, five and three years, the results were in.

Not a single case of HIV was transmitted from oral sex. Not a one.

This despite tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of oral sex sessions. This despite couples who were on meds, off meds, had undetectable viral loads, SOARING viral loads, the whole gamut.

Is is impossible to quantify an event which we have YET to determine even takes place.

Am I saying that sucking a penis and ingesting precum or semen is ZERO risk? I am hesitant to do that only because of the presence of outliers - for example, the type of horrendous oral hygeine that comes hand in hand with heavy and chronic meth use. Google meth mouth. Just don't be eating lunch when you do.

All the science that does not rely on the disproven method of patient report after infection point to oral being, at the most paranoid, a method of transmission that occurs in the most extreme of circumstances. If at all.

Is has never happened in controlled studies. And as long as there is a stigma around HIV infection (and sex in general, and in gay male sex in particular) there will always be reports. These reports have yet to stand up to any real scrutiny, and on these forums we try (not always with success) not to press the issue because here, the real issue is to get treated and be well.

Remember one thing: The plural of anecdote is not data



Here's the science

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

[Musicman55456]

 jkinatl2 I never swollowed cum and I'm 100 percent sure I've never had anal or vaginal because I don't do drugs and I rarely drink and when I do I dont drink enough to get drunk. I like to have a clear head and remember my life.

[Rev. Moon]

jkinatl2 I never swollowed cum and I'm 100 percent sure I've never had anal or vaginal because I don't do drugs and I rarely drink and when I do I dont drink enough to get drunk. I like to have a clear head and remember my life.

The bottom line remains that you did not have a risk for HIV.  JK was providing you with ample evidence of the fact that you cannot, and will not, become infected with this virus in the way that you believe.  Apparently you have picked and selected only what you found convenient.  Read the entire paragraph and links that he shared with you so that you can get a better understanding.

At this point you need to understand that if you continue asking more questions (or making additional comments) regarding a NO RISK situation you may find yourself being timed out for a minimum of 28 days.  You have been warned by Andy; let this be your final warning.

Relax and move on with your life.

[Jeff G]

Hi Musicman . You just tried to open a new account here and that's a bannable offense .
Please read the posting rules on the forum and consider this your one and only warning .

There may have been some changes made since your last visit , so please read the AM I welcome thread and rules , Thanks , Jeff . 

[Andy Velez]

Also, you cannot get answers to  your questions by using PM. You need to keep all of your entries in this same thread.

Here is what you wrote to me via PM:

If you read my old post I have only had oral sex and you had said that was not a risk. But last night a friend of mine came over. He has not done two many things with a guy before. Both of us have never had anal. so we thought that we would try it. We started off jacking off then with out a condom on we took turns sticking are dicks in are asses. We are both very tight so it was hard to get it in. So it didnt stay in very long it kept falling out. But after a while we continued jacking off we did suck a little bit. Until we cummed. Is that an issue I should be concerned with?

My response: The key fact in your latest story is that you were each wearing a condom when attempting anal intercourse. By doing that you were practicing safer sex and not at risk for HIV transmission. That's what you should be doing anytime you decide to have anal sex with someone. So you have not had a risk and there is nothing to be concerned about.