POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Forums Gatherings => Topic started by: AMG Coordinator on August 25, 2008, 06:07:15 pm
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Hello Everyone,
I was going to wait a bit before starting this post. However, since the question has already been posed, here we go.
Without a doubt, the most difficult task of any AMG is deciding upon the location. Every destination has positive and negative qualities. Unfortunately, no matter how hard we try, our group is too diverse and spread out out over vast distances to please everyone.
With that said, planning for next years AMG has begun and choice of destinations have been narrowed down. In all fairness to those who attended AMG this year, they were given the honor of narrowing down our choices for AMG 2009.
AMG 2009 will be held in...
Boston or Chicago
Please do your due diligence in researching the 2 choices above and clearly cast your vote below. You may also include your reason for the city you choose. Voting will continue for a month or until there is a clear winner.
To make the tally of votes easy, please limit your discussion in this thread to the topic at hand.
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1- Chicago
2- Boston
Just some notes on Chicago...I was last there about 10 years ago and I stayed at the Best Western Hotel on North Broadway, at the time it was fairly reasonably priced, clean, safe and nice ...A walk out of the hotel in either direction has gay flags over establishments such as restaurants and bookstores. Right around the corner on North Halsted were a bunch of gay bars and restaurants...Side Trax bar was right around the corner on North Halsted. The area was fairly safe, but like all major cities one must be vigilant. A few blocks from the hotel was an underpass which went under Lake Shore drive to a beautiful park at the southern tip of Lake Michigan. The hotel is about 4 or 5 blocks from Wrigley Field where the Cubs play baseball and the above ground subway is right there. The lines are color named and I believe I took the red line one stop to the brown line and was about a half hour from downtown...I got off the train and went to the Sears tower and of course to the top and a few blocks from there were the river taxis (a must do in Chicago) and the river snakes through the city with all its beautiful architecture to the Navy Pier where you can eat and sight see a bit and then you can take small boats - harbor taxis - to the museums. I enjoyed Chicago very much.
Jody :)
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Dennis,
I as well as my partner vote for Boston. The great historical sites, the food, North End, the Cape, Plymouth (home of the Mayflower), P-town for those who want to stay even if it is off season (cheaper rates) a short flight to NYC and plenty of discount airlines is a plus. Chicago is a great city as well, but Boston - Bean Town is the best!
Rog
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Mini, Hubby, and I all vote for Boston for all the reasons that Nico posted. Also, it is within driving distance (10hrs) so that Hubby, Mini, and I can make it a 3-day weekend: Friday for the Memorial service and Meet and Greet, and Saturday for sight-seeing, Sunday for traveling home. My parents have already agreed to keep the other kiddies so that Hubby can come too.
Mum
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I vote for Boston.
Both are great cities, but I think Boston has a bit more depth to it for many of the reasons listed above.
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Good lord! Gone a couple of days and come back to find out we're voting already! EEEP!
I'm voting for Chicago.
Both cities have much to offer, but I picked C town simply for geographical balance. We've been East (or East to me) with Toronto and Montreal, we've been West with SF, and we went really far South with MC, so C might be considered a halfway point.
Either one will be fine though.
RAB
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As the only place in the U.S. I've been to apart from L.A. International airport is San Franscico, I don't mind either. They both seem like great places to visit. Besos, Mark.
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Oh well that's fair, narrow the choices down with asking only those who went this year. Guess that stops those of us who aren't in this year's clique from having an opinion. ??? I was hoping for somewhere in Europe this year, but I guess we'll be told the same as last year - do your own.
You might as well be truthful and start calling it the NORTH AMERICAN AMG. Call a spade a spade and all that.
Thanks guys!
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Well, in -- in all seriousness the attendance was cut in half due to cost, as well as not enough money in the grant money.
What exactly do you suggest during the heights of US recession?
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Guess that stops those of us who aren't in this year's clique from having an opinion.
Blame Jan too! :)
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I should probably keep my mouth shut. Let's be fair here. The reason most people voted for Mexico City in the first place is because it was neutral in terms of any HIV ban. Mexico City was chosen not only because of the conference, but so those in Europe could also attend without violating the HIV ban imposed on European travelers to the US. Guess how many of those European AND American travelers who fussed about another US based AMG showed up in Mexico City? 0, Nada, not one! As a result of the location, as well as the drama incurred during last years debate, attendance was cut in half this year. I think it's only fair to those who make the time and effort to attend AMG have the first opportunity to decide where the next years AMG will be. Considering that over 95% of this years attendees have attended each and every AMG since its' inception, I would say it's more than fair.
Thank you for staying on topic.
Oh well that's fair, narrow the choices down with asking only those who went this year. Guess that stops those of us who aren't in this year's clique from having an opinion. ??? I was hoping for somewhere in Europe this year, but I guess we'll be told the same as last year - do your own.
You might as well be truthful and start calling it the NORTH AMERICAN AMG. Call a spade a spade and all that.
Thanks guys!
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I still don't understand why the Euros don't organize their own AMG -- can someone explain this to me?
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WTF? Not again this year. But, I guess we should have expected it would come. Clique, what clique? When did AMG ever become a clique? I am not going to be as nice this year as I was last year (and as some may remember I was some what outspoken after AMG 2007). This year I will go right for the jugular. Please, don't test me.
Having said that, Thom and I know both Chicago and Boston well. We vote as follows: 1st for Chicago, 2nd for Boston.
Ric
Oh well that's fair, narrow the choices down with asking only those who went this year. Guess that stops those of us who aren't in this year's clique from having an opinion. ??? I was hoping for somewhere in Europe this year, but I guess we'll be told the same as last year - do your own.
You might as well be truthful and start calling it the NORTH AMERICAN AMG. Call a spade a spade and all that.
Thanks guys!
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I still don't understand why the Euros don't organize their own AMG -- can someone explain this to me?
Gladly.
The concept of an AMG wasn't actually thought up by someone with the username "Scooter", it was actually thought up between Jody and I, with someone none of you will remember by the name of Moxie. That's way before most of your lot's time here.
I'd love to meet you all. But you make it difficult and - and you make it exclusive. If that's the way you want it, fine. I've got no real problem with that. Just be honest and call it the North American AMG. Is that so difficult?
This website is global. If you don't want the Gathering to reflect that, so be it.
Ann
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I've always said there should be a European AMG. So why isn't there? Going back to what Ann said, an AMG is something thought up by members. Neither Aidsmeds nor Poz contribute to it except through the use of these forums. AMG's are put together by members. Members do the work, put in countless hours, and spend personal funds towards it. So, who should plan a European AMG? I would think that somebody who would attend a European AMG would plan one. I'll ask the question that I asked last year (more or less; I'm not going to look it up): So when are those members living in Europe going to plan a gathering?
Perhaps we should call an AMG that's here in the US something other than AMG. Let's call it a Get Together of Really Cool, Drama-Free, Low-Maintenance Members of the POZ Forums Most of Whom Live in the US. That'll suit me just fine, but it'll be a bitch to remember GTRCDFLMMPFMWLIUS. Now that's just silly.
Now, back on topic, both Davids vote for Boston.
David
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How exactly do we make it exclusive? Each year there has been a vote put out to the forums on where the destination should be. Each year, the destination that receives the most votes is where AMG is held. For most formal gatherings or conventions, there isn't even a vote. You have a small group of board members who sit behind closed doors and decide the destination. Were any of us asked where the Aids Conference should have been held this year? While this may not be considered a formal group to AidsMeds there is a sense of formality in how we arrange this every year and we do have a group of individuals who put in a lot hours, money, tears, and sweat to make this happen for EVERYONE. It amazes me how something that always ends so positively always begins so negatively!
Last year most members were all for a US based location. Because of less than a handfull of vocal members speaking out against the US HIV ban the rest of us compromised and chose a non US destination that would be open to all members and exclusive of any ban on HIV+ individuals. Not only did this small handfull not attend AMG this year, attendance was reduced by more than half. In fact, the majority of people who voted for this years destination did not attend. And if I recall even further, Amsterdam was a choice placed into the poll. I voted for Amsterdam. Why did the members from Europe not vote for this destination?
I would love a European AMG. I must say, except for a small few, there doesn't appear to me there is a large interest from our friends across the Atlantic. If there is, than may I suggest becoming more involved in these discussions. Show us there is a need and a desire for an AMG in Europe and I'm sure it will happen. With the choices for AMG 2009 already presented, now is the time to state your case for an AMG in Europe in 2010. May I suggest a separate thread though as this WAS supposed to be for voting only.
I look forward to next years AMG in Chicago or Boston being the largest and best yet! And as always, all members are invited!
Gladly.
The concept of an AMG wasn't actually thought up by someone with the username "Scooter", it was actually thought up between Jody and I, with someone none of you will remember by the name of Moxie. That's way before most of your lot's time here.
I'd love to meet you all. But you make it difficult and - and you make it exclusive. If that's the way you want it, fine. I've got no real problem with that. Just be honest and call it the North American AMG. Is that so difficult?
This website is global. If you don't want the Gathering to reflect that, so be it.
Ann
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GTRCDFLMMPFMWLIUS
LOL @David..doesn't quite roll off the tongue..but I like..do you think it will fit onto next years T-Shirt?.. ;D
1..Chicago
2..Boston
For what it's woth I haven't been to any of those places so whatever gets the vote is fine by me.
Hugs
Jan :-*
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I vote for the Southern city. Oh, oops; there isn't one.
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:9tkUpsJ_qF0J::www.tupapi.net/Pics/evil-smiley-face.jpg)
Joking people!
I vote for Boston. More historical sites to see. A little more laid back. And I want some clam chowder!
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I vote for the Southern city. Oh, oops; there isn't one.
I vote for Boston. More historical sites to see. A little more laid back. And I want some clam chowder!
You couldn't help yourself could you..you just had to get that one in didn't you.. ;)
I want some Clam Chowder..problem is I want it NOW!!
Hugs
Jan :-*
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You couldn't help yourself could you..you just had to get that one in didn't you.. ;)
My mom doesn't say I'm hard-headed for nothing!
Miss you already!
;D
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Nobody *EVER* suggests Philadelphia :(
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1. Chicago
2. Boston
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Each year there has been a vote put out to the forums on where the destination should be.
Not for AMG 2009. That was my beef. Two destination choices were laid out without asking the whole forum membership, only the people who were lucky enough to go this year.
But never mind. I won't be going and this is the last you'll hear out of me about it. Promise.
Ann
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Don’t worry I’m staying out of this discussion this year! but I just wanted to answer this point.
Last year most members were all for a US based location. Because of less than a handfull of vocal members speaking out against the US HIV ban the rest of us compromised and chose a non US destination that would be open to all members and exclusive of any ban on HIV+ individuals. Not only did this small handfull not attend AMG this year, attendance was reduced by more than half. In fact, the majority of people who voted for this years destination did not attend. And if I recall even further, Amsterdam was a choice placed into the poll. I voted for Amsterdam. Why did the members from Europe not vote for this destination?
Certainly the reason I and I’m sure other Europeans voted for Mexico City in the end was because, of the options put forward I knew very few people outside of Europe could afford to visit Amsterdam. And because of my own opposition to the travel ban. I personally thought that Mexico City was an acceptable compromise. Because of the heated discussion over the AMG venue I didn’t particularly feel welcome this year in the end either if I'm being honest. Also the hope that flights over to Mexico City would reduce in price quite a bit closer to the time didn’t materialise either. You have to remember that flights from Europe would have been a substantial amount more than everyone in the US will have paid. Adding onto the fact that financial and work circumstances would not have allowed me to come in the end anyway.
One of the main things I thought was amazing about SF was the fact it drew everyone in from all cultures and corners of the globe unified by one thing not segregated into regions. However I am realistic enough to accept the fact that an AMG like SF is becoming increasingly difficult in the current financial climate.
We should draw a line underneath all this business anyway now in my view. I genuinely hope everyone enjoyed AMG this year and hope everyone enjoys next year too where ever it is!
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I spent 5 yrs in Chicago so I know it offers lots of excitement, big name entertainers, bars, baths and 'boystown' too..... but those damn hotel rooms are expensive and difficult to book unless 6 months in advance.
I pick Boston. I like Boston for one of the same reasons Cliff expressed, it's more laid back.
I have been thinking about these selections. I am of the opinion that Ann makes valid points and we should have one European city in the selections. We have the time to narrow it down to two choices......then one. Like, a whole YEAR. London or Berlin would be excellent places choices too. Zimbawee, for all it's worth. At least put something on the ballot outside USA. Process of elimination; just like all the other years past.
Mike
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1. Boston
2. Chicago
Due to my inattention to the forums I misunderstood the inevitable 2009 location to be Amsterdam. However it works out I'm going to try to go, and pretty much any place but New Orleans or Waco would be fine.
Curtis
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Since Cliff started, i'll continue..LOL. Jan and I will see everyone at the Grand Ol' Opry in October ;) ;D
Mum (who's kidding...maybe :P)
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Would someone please direct me to a thread where the Boston or Chicago were decided upon, while every other location was eliminated? Last year for AMG 07, I put in a lot of time and effort because the vote was originally for the Russian River and continued my effort when the vote was changed to San Francisco.
Going to any AMG is a real issue due to the cost of travel. In order to go to any AMG destination, I have to do without many things and if I have to save so hard to attend, I would like the opportunity to vote for more than 2 locations.
I believe my vote is as good as anyones and I want the chance to vote for Europe, Canada or the Carribean. Who eliminated the whole world for Boston or Chicago? ;D Have the best day
Michael
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If anyone knows of a way to please everyone here in regards to choosing a location for AMG please advise. This is obviously one trait I lack as one of the coordinators.
Regardless of how the destination has been chosen in the past there are always some who are unhappy with the process.
I stand behind this years decision in allowing attending members to vote and narrow the choices for 2009.
I would also like to add that if anyone would like the opportunity to coordinate AMG 2009 I am more than happy to step aside.
In the meantime, I invite all members to visit http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=22820.0 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=22820.0) to vote for AMG 2009 in either Boston or Chicago!
Kind Regards,
Dennis
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I don't think there is a way to please everyone across the board - nor do I think you all need to back down from the decision you've made to have these choices come from the people who actually made it there this year. I think under the circumstances - given the complete circus that came about surrounding this choice last year - the decision is a valid one. And I say this as someone who (1.) fully supported the decision for Mexico based SOLELY on principle - even though I pretty much knew that I wouldn't be able to attend as a result, and (2.) did not attend this year, and was therefore not a part of this initial selection process.
Given the fact that the majority of us are here in the US - and given the fact that a great many of us are on ADAP / disability / fixed incomes / are generally just plain damn piss poor, I really don't see why there is this great push to to wanna vote for trips to the far reaches of the earth. Most of us just flat out can't afford it. I think the notion of looking to 2010 for a European AMG is the way to go...and leave this next year as a more affordable opporunity for a larger number of us so we can see one another again in the meantime.
How is it that people that lament year round about being below the poverty line are suddenly upset at not being allowed the chance to vote to go to Europe, the Caribbean and all points far and wide? I just don't get it. Hell, if the point is to just pick out exotic locations that I don't have a chance in hell of ever really affording to get to, then I vote for Japan.
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Going to any AMG is a real issue due to the cost of travel. In order to go to any AMG destination, I have to do without many things and if I have to save so hard to attend, I would like the opportunity to vote for more than 2 locations.
I believe my vote is as good as anyones and I want the chance to vote for Europe, Canada or the Carribean. Who eliminated the whole world for Boston or Chicago? ;D Have the best day
Michael
This is not meant to sound as bitchy as it does. Most of us have to save and do without for any location chosen (unless it was our own hometown).
If ANY destination is difficult (having to do without many things and serious saving), how would Europe or the Carribean even be a option? Boston or Chicago are MUCH cheaper than either of those two. Major cities have direct flights, which are generally cheaper to fly to than other locations. They also have good transportation so we're not all stuck with rental cars, expensive cabs to everywhere, etc. The previous three locations worked out very well. I was completely satisfied with Montreal, although I didn't have a vote in its choice (I wasn't yet diagnosed). I'd also love a European location, but can't afford it anytime soon, most likely. There is a thread on a 2010 European AMG, so I'd suggest posting some suggestions or thoughts there.
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Not for AMG 2009. That was my beef. Two destination choices were laid out without asking the whole forum membership, only the people who were lucky enough to go this year.
This is because of what happened last year, and then the two vocal critics didn't even attend.
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Would someone please direct me to a thread where the Boston or Chicago were decided upon, while every other location was eliminated?
It was tallied on the back of a cocktail napkin.
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Just so everyone is clear on this years process, Chicago and Boston were not just pulled out of thin air. There were a good 4 or 5 votes that took place before we decided on presenting Boston and Chicago to the group. What typically would have taken 2-3 months here in the forums was reduced to a total of 3 or 4 hours. This is not only efficient, I believe it is also fair to those who actually attend AMG. Not only does this process free up 2-3 additional months for the coordinators and grants committee to plan this event, it also gives those members who plan on attending a greater length of time to do their own planning, such as requesting time off from work.
FYI...other destinations voted on were Washington D.C., Houston, Atlanta, NYC, and others I can't recall at the moment.
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We were also all very mindful that attendance in Mexico City was less than half what it was in San Francisco -- that should explain a lot.
Perhaps a comparison by the Grants Committee between the two years would also be helpful.
I'm of the mind that if our European members want a Euro-AMG then they should organize one. There's no reason that we can't have two AMGs each year, one in the US and another in Europe -- and there would then be some Americans who go to Europe and vice versa.
Or maybe that idea isn't feasible. DISCUSS.
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I like Chicago, but I like ocean breezes better than lake breezes, so I'm going with Boston.
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"Windy City" I would assume derives from the high winds coming off of Lake Michigan.
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I'm of the mind that if our European members want a Euro-AMG then they should organize one. There's no reason that we can't have two AMGs each year, one in the US and another in Europe -- and there would then be some Americans who go to Europe and vice versa.
Or maybe that idea isn't feasible. DISCUSS.
Philly, I totally agree with you on this. Problem being no one on eastside of the Atlantic seems willing to take on the the responsibility of coordinating a Euro-AMG. It appears that they want the North American group to do it for them. Sort of, "You plan it on our turf and MAYBE we'll attend."
Ric
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The main thing that I wish is that people would chew a nice chill pill from the outset regarding AMG and selections and all that. This is not some money-maker venture. It's not even some non-profit venture. It's just a good hearted idea made possible by good hearted efforts and good hearted contributions. I wish people would have a bit more restraint before instantly crying foul and behaving as if people are all acting against them or deliberately snubbing them or whatever.
If you have questions about how things are being decided or concerns, please just take a minute or two before hitting "post" to assess if what you've written is there in a diplomatic, friendly fashion. And that's advice I am heaping on myself, too. I hope we all try really hard to do that this year. I fully supported the relocation of the event last year on principle, but I have to be honest and say that the totally over-the-top "maybe I should just FUCK OFF and DIE!!!!" histrionics shook me up and turned me off the idea of going this August almost at the outset. It just made me feel like "no way is this year gonna be a good year to go - too much bad energy already". And I was someone just barely off the rush of SF 2007....THE best trip of my little life. If it can have that kind of effect on someone like me, surely it can turn others off who have never given it a go.
Let's all try to be mindful of that, ok? Cuz it really is a worthwhile event, and one I'd still like to believe in.
Cheers, folks.
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After reading this thread, I agree with what many of you posted:
Many of us don't/didn't have the financial means to travel this year.
Mexico is inexpensive compared to many places, and I REALLY wanted to go, but with the cost of living and gas hikes, it just wasn't possible for me. Hell, I can't even make it to the Fall mini-gathering because I am so strapped for cash this year. :(
I believe that's why this year's attendance was cut in half.
On a lighter note, I have traveled to Boston once in my life, in 2003. I absolutely loved it, and if I could I would live in New England. I have been to Chicago as well, and other than the deep-dish pizza, it was just OK, with me.
My vote is clearly for BOSTON. :)
~ Cindy
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I do think that these gatherings are worthwhile events, as Tim said. In my mind, that's the main reason why I agreed to be in the grants committee for three years (excluding this year) even though I haven't attended a gathering.
I also think that we have to come to a realization that no matter which destination is chosen, there will always be people who, for one reason or another, would unintentionally get excluded. The key word here is unintentional. There will never be a perfect destination where everyone who wants to go would be able to.
I also agree that because of the geographic implications of events such as AMG, perhaps it is time to simply add the geographic location to the AMG name: US-AMG; European-AMG, etc. That way, anyone who wishes to organize one can do so.
I say this realizing that there are potential complications with regard to the grants committee and where the monies collected would be allocated. But we've had lots of pretty smart and savvy people serving in that committee and I'm quite sure that they would be able to figure that out as well. ;)
Just my 2-cents...
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It was tallied on the back of a cocktail napkin.
I guess I was in the wrong bar because my napkin read, "FOR A GOOD TIME CALL". There was some discussion last night over dinner in SF with the person who called that number. He hopes, we plan a vacation together to a place of mutual interest. I am withdrawing my complaints and comments on this subject because I will not be attending AMG 09. ;D Have the best day
Michael
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Philly, I totally agree with you on this. Problem being no one on eastside of the Atlantic seems willing to take on the the responsibility of coordinating a Euro-AMG. It appears that they want the North American group to do it for them. Sort of, "You plan it on our turf and MAYBE we'll attend."
Ric
Speaking of chill pills.. Ric, can you please take one? This is flamebait, pure and simple (and you know why). Consider yourself warned.
My apologies for the lateness of this warning, but I'm only catching up with all the forums threads today after playing host to my Mom this weekend (always an exhausting experience!).
Peter
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Dear Friends, My sincere apologies to anyone on the forums that I may have offended. My sole intent was to simply respond to previous messages in this thread.
With respect to all, Ric
Peter, I hope you enjoyed your Mother's visit. I know what you mean about playing host to visitors. While much appreciated and welcome, these events take a tole on me, too.
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Thanks Ric. Enjoy the rest of this holiday weekend!
Peter
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I vote for Chicago (because I only live an hour and 1/2 away, sorry).
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I thought I was slipping......I KNEW I remembered voting, but didn't see my vote in this thread...then realized it is in the OTHER thread "stickied" at the top.