Author Topic: Update. / difficulties of Dating (Read 5576 times)

jupiter · « **on:** January 29, 2007, 06:32:31 am »

Hi All,
I guess i just need to put this out there and talk to someone as very few people know my status therefore difficult to discuss this.
I met this guy on the net a month or so ago. we started chatting got along really well. We became interested and looked at the possibility of dating. He does live in a different state so it was phonbe and net. But we had been chatting for a long time nd would often talk for hours on the phone. He was nice deep cute and funny. He seemed at a point what i am looking for, someone who wanyts a simple relationship, monogomous and basically a companion. We had talked about so much and our frinedship had become very deep to the point where we could talk about thoughts dreems and feelings. Talking about the previously mentioned things can be hard for me as i am a somewhat guarded person. I thought he could handle me being Poz. I started thinking maybe this is the time to tell him. Im sure you can all relate to some degree that one point can be too early and another can be too late.
I felt that ok this is the right time. He didnt take it well... He said that this changes everything and for this reason he cant be with me. I was shocked as everythiing else seemed so good. He seemed genuine and well traveled and he has met so many people. He went on to say that he doesnt want to put himself at risk and maybe i should find someone of my own status. At the time i thought ok he is scared. Then I got angry and felt dirty and maybe a bit judged. I think that if your interested in someone hiv shouldnt matter. If you love someone it deffinatly shouldnt matter. This has been a belief even before i was poz. At the moment ive been feeling lost and confused and hurt. I have been out with a neg guy before and that was fine he had no problem with that.. Its the second time dating since diagnosis. I know that hiv can be a big thing to take. But it just makes things difficult especially in the fiuture when i want to start again..
When do u tell someone this?? I have no idea. Im not open about it with many people..

Thanks for reading..
B

dtwpuck · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:56:44 am »

Quote from: jupiter on January 29, 2007, 06:32:31 am

Hi All,
I guess i just need to put this out there and talk to someone as very few people know my status therefore difficult to discuss this.
I met this guy on the net a month or so ago. we started chatting got along really well. We became interested and looked at the possibility of dating. He does live in a different state so it was phonbe and net. But we had been chatting for a long time nd would often talk for hours on the phone. He was nice deep cute and funny. He seemed at a point what i am looking for, someone who wanyts a simple relationship, monogomous and basically a companion. We had talked about so much and our frinedship had become very deep to the point where we could talk about thoughts dreems and feelings. Talking about the previously mentioned things can be hard for me as i am a somewhat guarded person. I thought he could handle me being Poz. I started thinking maybe this is the time to tell him. Im sure you can all relate to some degree that one point can be too early and another can be too late.
I felt that ok this is the right time. He didnt take it well... He said that this changes everything and for this reason he cant be with me. I was shocked as everythiing else seemed so good. He seemed genuine and well traveled and he has met so many people. He went on to say that he doesnt want to put himself at risk and maybe i should find someone of my own status. At the time i thought ok he is scared. Then I got angry and felt dirty and maybe a bit judged. I think that if your interested in someone hiv shouldnt matter. If you love someone it deffinatly shouldnt matter. This has been a belief even before i was poz. At the moment ive been feeling lost and confused and hurt. I have been out with a neg guy before and that was fine he had no problem with that.. Its the second time dating since diagnosis. I know that hiv can be a big thing to take. But it just makes things difficult especially in the fiuture when i want to start again..
When do u tell someone this?? I have no idea. Im not open about it with many people..

Thanks for reading..
B

Hi there... I know this is not what you want to hear, because you are not comfortable disclosing your status (as you said), but the easiest way to find people who are comfortable with your being hiv+ is to disclose it early. (Very early, in my opinion). There is very little chance someone who has an issue with it is going to suddenly have a change of heart after they find out how wonderful you are. People do not usually think in terms like that. And, to be truthful, the longer you wait, the more likely it is that they will feel like you were not truthful with them. Ultimately anyone you are willing to have an intimate relationship with, has a right to know.

You, on the other hand, have the right to protect yourself from feeling dirty, as you put it. That despair and emotional body blow is easier to avoid if you eliminate the wheat from the chaff before you start making bread. In other words, if you tell them early, you will eliminate guys who do have a problem with it early.

Yes, this narrows down the dating pool. Sadly, this is true. But, frankly, who wants to date someone who feels that people with HIV are pariahs. I certainly don't.

You probably have a million reasons why early disclosure is not an option. I encourage you to look hard at those reasons and to use this forum to discuss them. There are a lot of people on here who have been in the same boat and have reached conclusions which may surprise you, inspire you, and give you strength.

~puck

poet · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:14:20 am »

Hi. Unless I missed something, you had only had net/phone contact with this guy? I am asking because we aren't talking about anything happening between the two of you in a physical way. If so, since you are the only person with the information to disclose (our assumption since he didn't disclose anything about himself) then the 'right' time might be when you felt things were getting uncomfortable for you in holding onto this information and not knowing what his reaction might be, when you felt yourself getting more and more wrapped around when to tell him, how to tell him, etc. That's the right time. As I have posted elsewhere, I would consider disclosing via an email for a simple reason: it gives the other person, a person who is likely to have any number of reactions, initial, reflective, etc., a chance to figure out what his or her reaction is. The problem with doing it over the phone, while it is more direct, is just that: the person receiving the information is being forced to react on the spot (unless there was something in your emails and coversations which brushed the subject somehow). Win

Blixer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:56:51 pm »

Hi B,
I think the whole disclosure issue is a difficult one. I know that there may be lots of opinions on when is the right time. I decided early on to disclose early simply for the same reason that dtwpuck stated. Basically I decided that if someone had problems with me being positive, I wanted to know before I got in too deeply and was risking getting hurt badly. I'd love to think that when I hit it off great with someone that it wouldn't matter. But I think a person's reaction to someone who is positive transcends that. Either they are going to be open to it, or they aren't. And I don't think that when you disclose is going to determine that issue. Some people just don't understand HIV. I'm know that I didn't understand it. For me, finding out someone was positive didn't determine if I would date them or not. If we hit it off, and they were positive, yes, it was a concern. But on the other hand I always felt I would rather know up front. I'm convinced that I wasn't infected by someone who told me they were positive. We can all protect ourselves in those situations. But I was infected by someone who didn't know or didn't care. If someone is afraid of HIV, then there probably isn't anything you can do to change their mind. You could be the greatest guy in the world, and if they are fearful, they are going to most likely walk away.

Hence, as soon as I sense that there might be something there, I try to disclose. And I've actually had pretty good luck with that. I've had some guys that had some good questions, but overall, I haven't had any just walk away. And when things haven't worked out, it was for other reasons. I just figure it is better to know up front if there isn't a chance than to get myself totally invested and then get dumped on because of my status.

So sorry that it made you feel dirty. It shouldn't. You are you! The problem is with the other guy. I know that is easier to say than to actually accept. But I believe it is the truth.

Best of luck as you continue sorting this out. And keep in mind that everything I said could be totally worthless... after all... here I am, still single myself and not dating.

AustinWesley · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:07:56 pm »

You know it sounds like this was obviously a case of telling to late. I gotta say before when I was negative I wouldn't have intentionally dated a positive guy cause it scared me. I understand his point. Plus, it sounds like you waited such a long time talking for hours and hours and leaving out this tidbit. I'd be a bit angry if I was him.

I'm sorry it didn't pan out like you'd hoped, but to me it's a betrayal of trust to allow someone to get so involved and invested without being honest. Clearly, you got to work on your approach.

Honesty is the best policy. Those I know who are successful in dating and relationships are open upfront.

cubbybear · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:41:24 pm »

Hej Bjorn.

There's no real answer, despite the miriads who say disclose upfront, right now, today.. The right time to disclose is when ever you feel comfortable to do it. It's about you, not what anyone else thinks you should do. None of us know how the other person will react.

My advice.. don't listen to anyone except yourself. You are the only person who knows the individual you are thinking of disclosing to, and we have no control over how they react. It makes no difference if you disclose sooner or later except you may not be so attached to them if you disclose sooner and they reject you. Ive disclosed up front, and I've disclosed 3 months in to a relationship.. which worked for me? The one where I disclosed 3 months later, he didn't even flinch which is pretty good for a neggie.

It's not how or when you do it, I don't think.. it's all reliant on the individual you tell, and their education, and ability to deal with it or in a lot of cases, not deal with it.

There is nothing dishonest about delaying disclosure till you feel secure and comfortable within yourself to do so.
Dishonesty is saying you are negative when you are not.

Sorry it didnt work out Bjorn.
hugs
Matt

Buckmark · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2007, 10:12:59 pm »

Only you can know when the time is right to disclose. Personally, for me it is
better to disclose earlier, as I'd rather find out sooner if a person is comfortable
with me being positive -- before I invent too much of myself and get too attached.
Plus, I can see the point some folks are making here: if you wait too long to
disclose it almost seems deceptive.

Each situation is different and only you can know when it is the right time to
disclose. If you are like me, you may find that the more folks you disclose to,
the easier it gets to disclose. And an experience like you've had probably
makes it even harder to disclose. But I urge you to be brave and take the
risk of disclosure. There are a lot of folks here to give you support.

Cheers,

Henry

jupiter · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2007, 12:21:59 am »

Hi Guys and thank you for the replies.
I had a boyfriend last year soon after diagnosis and told him reight away and he was fine with that. He didnt flinch at all.

It is right to tell someone before having sex I aggree to that and will do that. I havent been sexually active sine we broke up in may last year.

I have hessitations of telling someone early incase they tell others. If i tell someone and nothing eventuates then they have this private detail about me.

My thoughts have been this.. I get to know someone for a period of time , just spending time together chatting and getting to know who he is.

But... The telling them early deal makes sence in the way that if they have difficulty with it, we dont get attatched.

Hmm.. Ultimatly I aggree with Matt. I have to be comfortable with the person. One day it can be too early and another time can be too late..

Id love to hear about other experiences too.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND ADVICE!! VERY MUCH APPRECIATED AND AS IVE SAID BEFORE IM SO HAPPY TO HAVE FOUND YOU ALL.

Bear Hugs
Bjorn.

naftalim · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2007, 12:58:47 am »

Good topic. I dont know if there is a right or wrong answer. I am at the stage where I dont put myself into a situation where I might get involved in any way with someone who is not Poz for a few reasons. One, I dont want to be telliing someone that I dont know very welll; Two, I dont want to get close to someone only to get dumped. Its a pain I could do without at this point I am not sure, but I think it might be a little harder for someone like me who is straight.

This is tough as I therefore do not date at all. It can get very complicated. I have close married friends who know, but the husbands sister does not and she wanted to set me up with someone. It got akward at the dinner table, until the wife said "He is seeing someone"

I have heard that there are people who are poz who have met and hooked up with people who are negative, but I am not sure I can expect that to happen to me.

So, yes, this is very frustrating. O, enough venting for today

AustinWesley · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:19:12 am »

Hey Guy,

I've actually met a number of straight women who are in your situation. I personally feel the stigma and discrimination is more challenging for straight folk. There are a bunch of dating sites and seems like more single women then straight guys on them you should look at when you are ready. Might help to get your feet wet ; ) I'm sure you'd be popular.

jupiter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2007, 03:34:46 am »

Wow like dating wasnt hard enough to start with huh !

I can put myself in the shoes of a HIV neg person. and say If you want to be with someone and they are what you are looking for then hiv shouldnt be an issue. I dated a hiv pos guy when i was neg. (Thats not how i became poz) A friend of a friend asked my friend and I for advice. He was neg and his bf was poz. My responce was If you love him and want to be with him hiv shouldnt be an issue and that was when i was neg.

DanielMark · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2007, 07:11:35 am »

Hello from Canada Bjorn,

Dating. Ugh. Dating when Poz, even bigger ugh! Since you asked for other experiences, here's mine.

After splitting with my partner of 10 years, oh way back about 2001, I had no interest at all in entering into another relationship for about three years. Now I am involved with someone two years who at the first told me he couldn’t “handle” my status first time things began to get intimate. I told him I understood (because I did) and we parted ways.

Then, after going and educating himself better about HIV, he came sniffing back around. We’ve been together since. Now we actually have some hearty good laughs when we talk about that initial time.

When to disclose your status is a personal choice. In my case, I would never engage in sex with anyone without disclosing. I don’t think there’s any set rule or guideline, except perhaps relying on your own good judgement and common sense.

I’m sorry this guy didn’t realise that no matter who he ultimately sleeps with he’ll be sleeping with every other person they’ve slept with, and who those ones have slept with too. There is no absolute assurance he won’t put himself at risk for contracting the virus (or any other number of STDs).

Since you seem to like this guy a lot, is a friendship now out of the question too? If it is, I’d have to think he wasn’t the best match for you to begin with. You seem like a decent level-headed person, and this one was not the last man standing. Try not to be too discouraged by this one incident for too long. It ain’t over till it’s over, as they say.

Daniel

jupiter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2007, 04:28:30 am »

Hi All,

Thanks Daniel. Yep its a tough road, But as you said Daniel. It aint over till its over. My last bf I had was soon after diagnioosis he is neg and he didnt have a prob with it.

I would never have sex without disclosure eather. At the moment and since i broke up with my ex. Sex has been the last thing on my mind. However when I enter a relationship im sure who ever he is and I will make up for lost time. lol

I know that when i meet someone if it is right he will accept me bug and all. As i mentioned there were alot of thoughts running through my head. I have encouraged him to read about Hiv and understand it more. I know this fear he is feeling is due to the fact he doesnt know much about the bug, He told me this.
When the time right the mr right will come along. I feel better.

Thanks
B

wishihadacat · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2007, 05:49:35 am »

Although I am a newbie here, and this topic seems to have been discussed in this or related threads for understandably quite some time, my view is that it is incumbent on all of us to make sure that we do what is right, not only for ourselves, but for our partners - men or women - and for our community. Yeah, it sounds a little moralistic, but think about it.

DanielMark · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2007, 08:18:15 am »

Far be it for me to advise you on your love life Bjorn, but I do believe sometimes it only requires patience and vigilance (even a great deal of those) to find a good match in the mate department. Anyone can have sex, but without love it is meaningless to me.

Mr Right and Mr RightAway live on opposite sides of town, I have found. Why settle for quantity when quality is so much more enriching? I bet you have many good qualities that will appeal to someone, and will find someone one day with the qualities you can admire too. Probably when and where you least expect it (going by my own experiences and the experiences of friends).

Daniel

ChaplinGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:11:06 am »

If I can add a bit of a brutal thought to this ... you have to consider this from a negative person's viewpoint. I think that it's easy for us to all say, given we're positive, that we'd never, ever judge someone by their status. I don't quite know that I can say for sure, but I think that if I wasn't where I am I'd have a slightly different opinion. It's no different than anything else - living through and actually experiencing something changes your viewpoint.

I also think that not disclosing to someone early on builds a relationship that one could argue is not honest. Because this disease is such a huge part of relationships (sex is always an issue and an important one for couples), we don't have the luxury of hiding it from those we want to pursue.

That said, I think that you should keep your eye on the fact that this is who you are, and you will know when you've met the right person because they embrace all of you. I'd never want to be with someone who only cared about me absent any flaws - and you shouldn't either.

marco23 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:14:04 am »

Hi Bjorn!

Well....you're getting some great advice here....so just wanted to say "HI"!

AustinWesley · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:48:18 pm »

Quote from: ChaplinGuy on January 31, 2007, 09:11:06 am

If I can add a bit of a brutal thought to this ... you have to consider this from a negative person's viewpoint. I think that it's easy for us to all say, given we're positive, that we'd never, ever judge someone by their status. I don't quite know that I can say for sure, but I think that if I wasn't where I am I'd have a slightly different opinion. It's no different than anything else - living through and actually experiencing something changes your viewpoint.

I also think that not disclosing to someone early on builds a relationship that one could argue is not honest. Because this disease is such a huge part of relationships (sex is always an issue and an important one for couples), we don't have the luxury of hiding it from those we want to pursue.

That said, I think that you should keep your eye on the fact that this is who you are, and you will know when you've met the right person because they embrace all of you. I'd never want to be with someone who only cared about me absent any flaws - and you shouldn't either.

Well said Chaplin!

marc11864 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2007, 05:28:51 pm »

you have to consider this from a negative person's viewpoint. I think that it's easy for us to all say, given we're positive, that we'd never, ever judge someone by their status.

I might have missed something

but weren't many of us negative at one point? I know I was and it was at that time that I embraced my first sero-discordant relationship rather quickly actually. He was much more ill at ease about it than I was to the point that he had a moment of feeling unlovable due to his HIV. That was nearly 12 years ago and after we separated (for I believe unrelated reasons), I stayed negative for another almost 10.

AustinWesley · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2007, 07:31:03 pm »

Quote from: marc11864 on January 31, 2007, 05:28:51 pm

you have to consider this from a negative person's viewpoint. I think that it's easy for us to all say, given we're positive, that we'd never, ever judge someone by their status.

I might have missed something but weren't many of us negative at one point? I know I was and it was at that time that I embraced my first sero-discordant relationship rather quickly actually. He was much more ill at ease about it than I was to the point that he had a moment of feeling unlovable due to his HIV. That was nearly 12 years ago and after we separated (for I believe unrelated reasons), I stayed negative for another almost 10.

Hey Marc,

I think you've taken Chaplin's message out of context here clearly.

As a positive person I've also been in a sero discordinate realtionship which ended. Like you mine didn't end over HIV.

The point as I see it is that those who aren't as open minded and are negative aren't going to necessarily embrace everyone for all their great qualities all the time and overlook the whole positive obstacle.

Prior to becoming positive I wouldn't have ever knowingly entered into a relationship with someone who was positive. Experience brings a different outlook!

Wesley

marc11864 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:06:23 pm »

Then I didn't take it out of context. I wasn't offended. Just making an observation mostly.

I've rarely viewed a possible threat the same way as many people. And I tried to support the underdog from a young age. It's how I was taught.

What I was pointing out was that I hadn't had any real experience and yet I was open to a relationship with someone who was poz. Also for me growing up and having great difficulty with my own sexuality, then finally accepting myself (at 17) brought me to an understanding of people around me who were different from me. I had no uneasiness with PWAs or PWHIVs from the get-go. From the time it was being called GRID even.

I think it says just as much about how we learn to integrate differences about ourselves. I agree that experience brings a different outlook; and usually wisdom. I admit though that I am not without my prejudices. I'm working on them.

jupiter · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2007, 03:17:05 am »

Quote from: DanielMark on January 31, 2007, 08:18:15 am

but I do believe sometimes it only requires patience and vigilance (even a great deal of those) to find a good match in the mate department. Anyone can have sex, but without love it is meaningless to me.

Mr Right and Mr RightAway live on opposite sides of town, I have found. Why settle for quantity when quality is so much more enriching?

VERY COOL!!
I agree totally with the statement from Daniel as quoted above. Its cool that others see things this way.. I gave up casual sex many many years ago for the above reason, it is meaningless. I know what i want and when i find the one with whom I can have a real connection with Im happy to wait. Besides you never know what life will bring !

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Author Topic: Update. / difficulties of Dating (Read 5576 times)