Author Topic: ??? Who is incharge You or Your Doctor??? (Read 9984 times)

Jerry71 · « **on:** October 16, 2007, 09:27:26 am »

Just wanted to know who is incharge when it comes to seeing your doctor? I have always thought that just do what the dotor says and go to my visit and leave and never ask questions. Well this will all change this time around she is going to get a ear full from me. I have sit back to long and listen to her she needs to listen to what I'm feeling for a change! After two years with this damn disease almost three and still not much improvement somrthing has to been done this time around.

It is funny everytime I go into visit her she tells me about some new drug and always has to go out and get her AIDS book and tell me all about. Like Im thinking what is the deal with this your a doctor and you deal with this all the time and you cant remember reading the info on this new drug already.

Dan J. · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2007, 10:17:38 am »

My redlationship with my Dr has always been a "partnership" so to speak. He gives me options, I ask questions and we make the best decisison for me together. I will never go to the Dr and just let them tell me what THEY think is best for me and not ask questions. You have to take control of your healthcare, it's your body not theirs.

Dr's are human beings with a lot of information to keep up to date on, they can't remember everything about every drug. I have seen the same hiv doc for 17 years & he has taken out a book during my visits with him many times.

woodshere · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2007, 10:33:05 am »

Quote from: Dan J. on October 16, 2007, 10:17:38 am

My redlationship with my Dr has always been a "partnership" so to speak. He gives me options, I ask questions and we make the best decisison for me together. I will never go to the Dr and just let them tell me what THEY think is best for me and not ask questions. You have to take control of your healthcare, it's your body not theirs.

Dr's are human beings with a lot of information to keep up to date on, they can't remember everything about every drug. I have seen the same hiv doc for 17 years & he has taken out a book during my visits with him many times.

DITTO

MOONLIGHT1114 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2007, 12:42:57 pm »

Jerry~

Maybe I missed something, but looking at your labs in your signature line, are you waiting 8 months in between doc visits?

I agree with the other posters, many a doc has pulled out a book to refer to, because medicines are always changing.

This doesn't apply as much to HIV, well indirectly, but in August I told my GYN that I was going to stop taking "the pill" after 19 years because I felt my system was out of whack with female issues. My GYN blamed my probs on my HIV meds, which she thought were putting too much stress on my liver. MY HIV doc blamed the hormones!

I just saw my ID doc TODAY after being off of the pill for two months and ALL of my labs are amazing! (See Dating Part VIII) My CD4 is listed below and I dunno why its climbing. This has been the most stressful year of my life!

My point is, "I" told my GYN I wanted to stop the pill before having a female out-patient procedure. "I" told her. And now look at what's happened! Is it related, I don't know, but my HIV doc told me this morning, "You know your body better than anyone else." Maybe you should get a second opinion and try a new doc one time? Do you work? If not, see if there is someone else you could go see, even if it means driving a little ways. The peace of mind will be well worth it, especially if YOU do this for YOU, and you'll end up being better for the choice you've made.

If you don't have the option of seeing another doc, then make it a point to write down questions for your current doc. Explain to her your frustrations and let her know that these issues are REAL for you, that they are weighing you down. By being proactive, you can achieve great results!

Keep us posted!

~Cindy

catwoman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2007, 12:55:44 pm »

I agree that it is definitely a partnership. Doctors are not God. They are human. They have plenty of knowledge but they don't know everything. My doctor and I work together. I believe in more natural ways of dealing with my disease but I do take Kaletra/Truvada treatment. When my CD4s were below 200, my doctor had me on all types of prophylaxis. I did it for a little while but then I was noticing side effects from those also. I also felt my body would recover stronger and better without the extra drugs. I understood, in theory, what the prophylaxis was for but I had another belief system about it. She respected my choice to stop the prophylactic drugs and only take the HIV meds while I kept up with my juicing, herbs, and vitamins. Since then, my numbers have come up beautifully and it even surprised her. I didn't make my decisions without being informed. I did take the pneumovax shot because pneumonia is what landed me in the hospital and with my diagnosis but there was always a partnership. Being proactive is the best thing you can do with your body. At the end of the day, it is YOUR body.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:05:00 pm »

Jerry, I'd like to reinforce Cindy/Moonlight's inquiry as to the current frequency of your doctor visits. I'm still incredulous about the CD4 testing/Medicare issue you've discussed in other threads, and wonder if you've even brought this up again with your doctor. I still maintain that it's bogus information.

Jerry71 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2007, 02:06:43 pm »

Quote from: MOONLIGHT1114 on October 16, 2007, 12:42:57 pm

Jerry~

Maybe I missed something, but looking at your labs in your signature line, are you waiting 8 months in between doc visits?

That's correct Cindy. For some reason my ID doctor will only be taken CD4 counts ever other visit she is only concerned for my VL and not to worried about my CD4 counts.

MOONLIGHT1114 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2007, 02:08:56 pm »

OK, so am I correct in saying that you get a VL every 4 months? Is that enough? I don't really know, but I think you should explore your options. I know its frustrating. Hang in there, but don't sit idle.

~Cindy

dixieman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2007, 02:30:35 pm »

Hey Jerry, I understand your concerns but, I do want to point out... your doctor is on a tightening fiscal budget... she has opted for a more relevant test that measures if your virus is encroaching upon your health... cd4 counts fluctuate up down all around... but, if your viral load stays undetectable its a sure sign your meds are working... I think you stated that you were on adap? I'm sure if you want to pay out of pocket she can run the cd4 counts each and every time you are checked for your viral load... but, the cost is the factor... so she is relying on a test "Viral load" to make sure your meds are still working... instead of being frustrated why not speak civil... oh and on the book as a reference... do you know how much crap they have to read? Its always good to have a reference handy so if you have any questions she can show you in black and white print... I she no problem with this...

woodshere · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2007, 03:26:37 pm »

Quote from: MOONLIGHT1114 on October 16, 2007, 02:08:56 pm

OK, so am I correct in saying that you get a VL every 4 months? Is that enough? I don't really know, but I think you should explore your options. I know its frustrating. Hang in there, but don't sit idle.

~Cindy

My HIV dr has recently changed my visits to every 4 months from 3. Said everything was going well so that is ok, and right now I am fine with that. I am sure it is another cost saving measure. I have major thyroid problems and was testing every 3 months, that will be cut to twice a year, as some insurance companies balk at having to pay for that test so often. I have no doubt that if I start showing a resistance and my VL begins increasing then either we will or I will insist upon more frequent VL tests until it maintains a lengthing undectable status.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2007, 04:25:05 pm »

Quote from: dixieman on October 16, 2007, 02:30:35 pm

Hey Jerry, I understand your concerns but, I do want to point out... your doctor is on a tightening fiscal budget... she has opted for a more relevant test that measures if your virus is encroaching upon your health... cd4 counts fluctuate up down all around... but, if your viral load stays undetectable its a sure sign your meds are working... I think you stated that you were on adap? I'm sure if you want to pay out of pocket she can run the cd4 counts each and every time you are checked for your viral load... but, the cost is the factor... so she is relying on a test "Viral load" to make sure your meds are still working... instead of being frustrated why not speak civil... oh and on the book as a reference... do you know how much crap they have to read? Its always good to have a reference handy so if you have any questions she can show you in black and white print... I she no problem with this...

I'm sorry, but it's bullshit they're feeding him. Jerry may be on ADAP for his medication, but he's stated that his lab test are paid by Medicare (not MediCAID). I'm on the same thing, and I can tell you that this should not be an issue that even fluctuates state by state. Medicare will pay for MONTHLY cd4 tests if needed.

A viral load test is more expensive than a cd4 test.

As far as frequency of visits, I went EVERY MONTH for over a decade. Sure, 8 years of that was under private insurance as I was working, but the past 5 have been on Medicare. In fact, for 3-4 of those years I was going TWICE a month because I had to get hormone replacement therapy injections in my buttocks.

I question this cost saving argument.

mjmel · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2007, 04:44:54 pm »

Indisputably, my doctor is in charge. Why: Because he's a pro. He's always updated on the latest HIV related news and I trust him with my life.
If it was any other way, I'd find a new doctor. In truth, I think I am spoiled with his expertise.
On the other hand, the clinic that contracts my doctors services is a different story. They are a bit frustrating to deal with in regards to the procedures, guidelines, rules and red tape/BS. Their procedures are in place for a reason and I understand there is enough scamming of the system to warrant some double checking of info but I tire of it, nevertheless.
I don't want to come across as though I'm righteous or even in a position of telling you what you must do........just a suggestion: Tread carefully before you address your doctor with anger or frustration that wasn't caused by him/her directly. The doctors at most clinics have to deal with the same bullshit and bureaucracy that we do. And they get just as frustrated.
I hope you can get answers to all your questions. You are entitled to questions and exchanges of ideas with your doctor. You are also entitled to your quarterly labs...CD4s and VL.

Mike

(edit: spellcheck)

megasept · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2007, 05:13:47 pm »

Quote from: Jerry71 on October 16, 2007, 02:06:43 pm

That's correct Cindy. For some reason my ID doctor will only be taken CD4 counts ever other visit she is only concerned for my VL and not to worried about my CD4 counts.

Jerry71: This seems backasswards. VL count is less important than CD4 count. I'd get a new MD.

Since you're here, you must read up on HIV, discuss treatments, etc. Bring your questions and ideas in note form to each meeting with an hiv specialist (if possible). This might help you build the two way partnership everyone has advocated in their replies to you. I am also an assertive patient, and have a doctor who likes that about me (not threatened). Good luck.

-megasept

MOONLIGHT1114 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2007, 05:54:47 pm »

Quote from: woodshere on October 16, 2007, 03:26:37 pm

My HIV dr has recently changed my visits to every 4 months from 3. Said everything was going well so that is ok, and right now I am fine with that. I am sure it is another cost saving measure. I have major thyroid problems and was testing every 3 months, that will be cut to twice a year, as some insurance companies balk at having to pay for that test so often. I have no doubt that if I start showing a resistance and my VL begins increasing then either we will or I will insist upon more frequent VL tests until it maintains a lengthing undectable status.

Woods~ You quoted my questioning of Jerry getting a VL every 4 months. I wanted to make sure that he wasn't going 8 months in between VL tests, or any tests, for that matter. I think the point you were trying to make is that whether its every 3 months, or every 4 months, its OK. I agree with you on that, and that wasn't the reasoning for my questioning.

Jerry~ Since your last test of any sort was in June, are you going again this month for another VL? I sure hope so, and I hope that you can get to the bottom of this.

~Cindy

Dan J. · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2007, 06:42:58 pm »

What I don't understand is how can he be on ADAP & have Medicare? I thought everyone that has Medicare has a Part D plan? Am I wrong?

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2007, 07:30:30 pm »

Quote from: Dan J. on October 16, 2007, 06:42:58 pm

What I don't understand is how can he be on ADAP & have Medicare? I thought everyone that has Medicare has a Part D plan? Am I wrong?

You're confusing Part D (which is only for prescriptions) with Part A & B (medical services -- including lab costs -- and hospitalization).

Otherwise, yes one can indeed have for prescriptions, BOTH Part D and ADAP, but ADAP must be the payer of last resort. For example, when I go in for my meds they bill the insurer I use for Part D first, then whatever they do not pay they bill ADAP if that medication is on our state formulary. Therefore, at least in Pennsylvania, one does not pay for co-pays or a donut hole.

I really don't want to hijack though as the issue here in this thread is not prescription coverage for Jerry as far as I know, it's whether or not there is any restriction on the amount of CD4 tests (and I should remind Jerry that your CD4% figure is on this test and is of great importance) that he receives yearly.

bocker3 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2007, 08:24:09 pm »

Quote from: megasept on October 16, 2007, 05:13:47 pm

Jerry71: This seems backasswards. VL count is less important than CD4 count. I'd get a new MD.

Actually, everything I've read and from what I've heard from other specialists, CD4 is most important BEFORE treatment, but VL is more important AFTER treatment. Here is why -- CD4 helps determine when you should consider meds (yes, VL is helpful too, but CD4 is the more important marker). After you start treatment, the meds are impacting the virus, so you are testing to insure that the meds are doing what they are supposed to do.

Now -- having said that, I still think that getting both is optimal and I would fight tooth and nail if my doc tried to change that on me. I currently get both tests every 3 months. If I get a couple of years of undetectable VLs, I might be OK with going to every 4 months. The key there is that I would be making the call. My advice to you, Jerry, if your doctor is not open to be a partner with you -- then you should consider finding a new one.

I have consistently questioned my doctor over the last 2 years. Most times I go with his recommendations, because he has the experience and the education, but sometimes I've not gone with his. For instance, he wanted to put me on Kaletra, initially. Given my family history with cholesterol and heart problems, I did not want a PI. I went with Sustiva. Now, unfortunately, we found after that decision that I had some resistance issues with Nukes, so I needed to add a PI anyway -- but I went with Reyataz for the lipid issues. What I did, was explain my reasoning with him and he said that this made perfect sense to him.

Bottomline -- you are paying her for her expertise, but you are the one living with this virus. You have to work together.

Hugs,
Mike

Jerry71 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2007, 09:42:02 pm »

Sorry I had type all of what I wanted to say and got this dreadful system error that the servers were down and totally forgot what I wanted to say.

Robert · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:23:32 am »

Hi Jerry.

Yeah, I had the same server problem too earlier this evening. ANyway, as our friend Mark (Aztecan) has pointed out, CD4 testing is vital when you're hovering around 200. You need to know if your exposing yourself to an OI like pneumocystis. When your t-cells fall at or below 200 you need to go on Bactrim or something similar and the only way to know this is to test for it. And, of course, the VL tells you that HAART is working by keeping the virus supressed. So make sure you tell your Dr. that. And YOU WANT BOTH TESTS!!

Go get 'em tiger.....

robert

xyahka · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2007, 03:06:03 am »

Hi, not much to contribute about the medicare/aid and part D, but as for what referes to my Dr and me....

I am in charge. Yes she is a "pro" but i don't trust her my life. Sometimes she seems to be more a Dr than a human, if you get what i mean.

My relationship with her is like... fight among two forces... better say a negotiation among two forces... on one hand is me, trying to survive and remain well... and on the other hand is she... who does not even know my name, does not keep a track of my case, ... from time to time she even doubts i am poz and want to make me a western blot again (which is frankly frustrating and annoying... like if i would need to get diagnosed once more).

I would say that here in my country to meet an Id Dr within government programmes (the only way you can do it unless you are rich) is like going to buy to a super market... you go there and she is like a machine.. "ring, ring, ring, this is your prescription". She does not even talk to you, she talks to herself... sometimes i feel i don't exist for her... she is just delivering a prescription to the "Poz # 7039" not seeing me as a person who is living with a chronic disease. That's why i don't trust her, although I am somehow addapted to it.... the only thing i really dislike now is when i have to negotiate with her and have "justify" why i want to get tested for this or that (exemple: HCV). She asked me "why do you want HCV test?".... shouldn't she know?... she is the Dr after all. Perhaps it is not obvious for her that i want to stay alive.

Juan Carlos ... who might never really trust his life to any Dr... worst in this part of the world.

404error · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2007, 03:33:39 am »

I have a great relationship with my doctor. I don't call him by his first name, although he says it's okay to, I just feel that with all the education he's gone through he's earned the title Doctor. He always asks how I feel, what I've been doing, how is my health, my social life, my love life, am I satisfied with my job, all kinds of things. After one appointment he even told me that what I need is to get laid! (such great advice! although it never panned out...) He's warm, kind, optimistic and just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. He specializes in HIV. He was trained in South Africa then came here to Canada about 4 years ago. Whenver he suggests something he asks if I feel it's something I could do, or would feel comfortable doing or would be able to commit to. If I answer no, then we see what we can do to work around it. He always asks what I think before offering an opinion of his own. I am so grateful to have him as a doctor, I really am.

As far as some of the responses I've read regarding testing in here, MY GOD!!! I was getting tested every 4 months for the first year and every 3 months since this past spring. Now I will be getting tested once a month. CD4, VL, liver, kidney, hormone levels and I think that's it. It's really too bad that the healthcare system in the US puts profit first, people second...

Jerry71 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2007, 06:44:21 pm »

Well went to my ID appt today and found out that she is in charge she is the one that makes the decisions.

Doctor visit from HELL! Found out today that a VL is more important than a CD4 test. I will only be getting a CD4 test done every 8 months and a VL done every four months. I guess if your numbers are below 200 it does not matter how many times you are seen by your doctor. Time to look for another ID doctor soon.

mjmel · « **Reply #22 on:** October 17, 2007, 07:37:02 pm »

Sorry to hear of this Jerry. I think you are in order to want a another ID doc. What is her problem? Is she managing state funds as well as practicing medicine. Sheesh!

Mike

allopathicholistic · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2007, 07:47:32 pm »

Quote from: mjmel on October 17, 2007, 07:37:02 pm

Sorry to hear of this Jerry. I think you are in order to want a another ID doc. What is her problem? Is she managing state funds as well as practicing medicine. Sheesh!

and I feel Jerry was doing "his part" by acquiescing (not making a stink)

that in of itself should be officially noted somehow as Jerry doing his voluntary part. this should be a f*cking 2-way street not a 1-way street. one word comes to mind here: fairness

edited to add voluntary

Ric Wilke · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:02:07 pm »

Jerry,

Ask for a complete copy of your medical chart from you current ID doctor. Once in hand run, don't walk, to a new ID doctor. Your health depends on this decision. Your current ID doc is a quack and she should not be permitted to practice on a gerbil. It's your body, my friend, and I think that you are on the right track of taking back control. I know you got it in ya.

Love you buddy, Ric

Jerry71 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:20:51 pm »

Hey Ric thanks and noted today was too much to deal with but first thing tomorrow looking for a new ID doctor.

LACboi · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:59:04 pm »

Quote from: Jerry71 on October 17, 2007, 06:44:21 pm

Well went to my ID appt today and found out that she is in charge she is the one that makes the decisions.

Doctor visit from HELL! Found out today that a VL is more important than a CD4 test. I will only be getting a CD4 test done every 8 months and a VL done every four months. I guess if your numbers are below 200 it does not matter how many times you are seen by your doctor. Time to look for another ID doctor soon.

Hello Jerry, If I were you I would see about changing ID Doctor. Your CD4 count is very important, as long as your CD4 count is below 200 you should be getting your VL, and CD4 count and % checked a minimum of every three months. Actually as long as your CD4 is below 300 and % is below 30 you should be tested every 3 months minimum.

I'm not sure of your situation but if you have the ability to change Doctors you need to, and if its not possible, then you need to tell your doctor that you want to get your labs drawn every three months(CD4 count, CD4%,VL, and CBC w/Differential.)

Take care
Jeremy...[/color]

Jerry71 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 18, 2007, 01:45:53 pm »

Well I called today and got me another appointment to see another doctor it will be in Charlottesville Va at the University of Virginia.

Dragonette · « **Reply #28 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:02:27 pm »

Hi Jerry,

I had two weeks from hell fighting my doctors but now they acknowledged they did everything wrong. the nurse forgot to write down the fact that i was detectable in my file and so it was only 2 times instead of 3; when it was discussed in a meeting, the doctors wanted to switch me to avoid resistance, but the same nurse insisted that i was not adhering to the meds, which is absolutely not true. To top it all off, finally I batteled and got an early appt with the doc yesrterday and he admitted that they were wrong, wrote me a prescription for a new drugs, THE PRESCRIPTION WAS FOR THE WRONG DOSE, 2 times per day 500 mg instead of 2 times 1000 mg!!
Luckily, I vaguely remebered something from the forums about the right dose and checked it again, I called them & after some usual beurocracy trying to get through he apologized and said that it's good I found out cos if I didn't things would ve very bad cos I would just become even more resitant to more drugs, so they faxed the new prescription today. I think it's extremely important that we keep on top of things cos even the best doctors make mistakes, good for you for standing your ground, these people are not going to suffer the consequences of their mistakes, we are, and you can't be too strict in "supervising" the people who are paid to look after you. I do like my doctor and even that grumpy nurse, but I have lost all guilt over being what they call a difficult patient, and I don't think they will ever call me that again because they saw how consistently wrong they were in the last weeks. I just shudder to think what would happen if I took the drug as prescribed. Take good care of yourself, and to paraphrase Cuba Gooding in Jerry McGuire, "help them to help you". Good luck with the new doc & all the best to you.

MOONLIGHT1114 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:06:26 pm »

Jerry~

I'm VERY happy to hear that you've set up an appointment to see a new doc! Good things are coming your way!

~Cindy

Ric Wilke · « **Reply #30 on:** October 18, 2007, 07:49:36 pm »

Quote from: Jerry71 on October 18, 2007, 01:45:53 pm

Well I called today and got me another appointment to see another doctor it will be in Charlottesville Va at the University of Virginia.

Way to go, Jerry!!!

I've got a dear, longtime friend who is the Register at UVA. I sure she would be very happy to meat you and she would definitely provide a friendly face in new territory. Let me know if you would like me to contact her.

Major hugs and love, Ric

Dan J. · « **Reply #31 on:** October 18, 2007, 08:09:24 pm »

Quote from: Ric Wilke on October 17, 2007, 08:02:07 pm

Jerry,

Ask for a complete copy of your medical chart from you current ID doctor. Once in hand run, don't walk, to a new ID doctor. Your health depends on this decision. Your current ID doc is a quack and she should not be permitted to practice on a gerbil. It's your body, my friend, and I think that you are on the right track of taking back control. I know you got it in ya.

Love you buddy, Ric

His current doctor may charge him for his records if he takes them with him. Jerry, have you made your appointment with the new doc yet? If you have go by your current doctors office and tell them in person that you have decided to see another doctor. Tell your current doc when your appointment with the new doc will be and have them send your records to the new doctor. That way you won't be charged.

Jerry71 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 19, 2007, 12:07:07 pm »

Thanks Ric.

Dan I have not got my appointment to see my new doctor yet on a waiting list for now. Have not told my regular doctor about my switch yet will not be going to see her again until Feb 08.

MOONLIGHT1114 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 19, 2007, 03:09:09 pm »

Jerry~ I can't believe they have a waiting list. I'm sorry you can't go right away. Any idea how long before than can see you?

~Cindy

Jerry71 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 19, 2007, 04:14:44 pm »

Not sure yet Cindy University of Virginia is a big place, they see over 500 hiv patients. I still have three months but until they return my call I guess I'm stuck in a rut at the moment. I should have kept my mouth shut after I told my folks that I was going to change my doctor. They really don't understand why I would want to up and change my doctor like I am doing. Just been getting the third degree from all of them but it is my body and my option to change my doctor.

Basquo · « **Reply #35 on:** October 20, 2007, 01:15:48 am »

Quote from: Dan J. on October 18, 2007, 08:09:24 pm

His current doctor may charge him for his records if he takes them with him. Jerry, have you made your appointment with the new doc yet? If you have go by your current doctors office and tell them in person that you have decided to see another doctor. Tell your current doc when your appointment with the new doc will be and have them send your records to the new doctor. That way you won't be charged.

good call Dan! If you request copies of your records for your own use (even taking them to another caregiver) you can be charged for copies, but if you ask them to send copies to another caregiver, they can't charge you. The sucky thing is that even though they are your records, they are actually the caregivers' records regarding YOU.

...and who are those two goodlooking fellas in your avatar?

wellington · « **Reply #36 on:** October 20, 2007, 09:48:32 am »

Like I'd let the mechanic tell me what to do about my car? Not in this life, nor likely the next. I'm driving, and doctor(s) give directions and advice on the route I take.

DanielMark · « **Reply #37 on:** October 20, 2007, 10:05:29 am »

Who is incharge You or Your Doctor?

I am in charge. He's just there to assist.

Forums Index

Welcome

Author Topic: ??? Who is incharge You or Your Doctor??? (Read 9984 times)

Dan J.

Dan J.

Dan J.