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Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 04:00:06 pm

Title: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 04:00:06 pm: I had a second telephone interview for a recent position I applied for regarding employment. At the end of the interview the lady scheduled me for a face to face next week on Tuesday, she also told me to dress in casual business attire for the interview.

Question: What in the world is casual business attire?
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: PeteNYNJ on December 11, 2008, 04:04:09 pm: It basically means no suit, no jeans, no sneakers.

Khakis and a dress shirt (tie optional). Interview - I would go with the tie.

It is the most boring way on Earth to dress :(
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 04:12:43 pm: Thanks, I was wondering specifically about the tie. Normally for any interview I would dress in dress pants along with a dress shirt and tie. I cannot ever recall being told specifically what to wear to an interview.

Would a nice sweater with a dress shirt's collar popping out the top along with dress pants suffice as casual business?
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: PeteNYNJ on December 11, 2008, 04:23:23 pm: yes

A lot of HR people tell candidates how to dress now so no one feels awkward.

Case in point - I interviewed at Abercrombie and Fitch's headquarters for a job and they told me to dress "Abercrombie-ish". Needless to say I couldnt work at a job where the senior VP was dressed like a 16 year old :)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 05:13:43 pm: Thanks Pete
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 11, 2008, 05:22:26 pm: If they said business casual I would either wear a jacket or a tie but not both. Pay attention to your shoes because people notice. Good luck with the interview!
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: PeteNYNJ on December 11, 2008, 05:35:13 pm: Not to confuse you more, but also consider the type of industry you are interviewing for.

A job at MTV would probably consider business causual differently then say a job with a law firm.

also - ditto to what Ford said about the shoes.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 06:01:02 pm: Cool thanks for all the advice you two. I am nervous all to hell to be honest and I really want to make a great first impression, this will be my second interview since getting sick last year and losing my job as a result of it. I don't know why exactly but something has been lost since then; confidence wise I mean. I really fear they will ask me why I have not worked in almost a year. I really do not want to cite health reasons as the cause if at all possible.

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 11, 2008, 05:22:26 pm
Good luck with the interview!

Thanks Ford much appreciated!
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Miss Philicia on December 11, 2008, 07:15:06 pm: Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 11, 2008, 05:22:26 pm
Pay attention to your shoes because people notice.

This can't be emphasized enough.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: fearless on December 11, 2008, 07:25:59 pm: Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 11, 2008, 07:15:06 pm
This can't be emphasized enough.

yes indeed. i always base decisions on whether to shag based on the type of shoes one wears. If they ain't got the right shoes they ain't any good in the sack.

as for casual attire, what the others said Tom re shirts, ties and jackets.

as for the last year and what you've been doing - can you make up a plausible story - caring for sick family member, taking time out to pursue a writing career (damn, never did get to finish that book) or to paint or something.

ps. send me those dreads if you end up cutting them off.

re the confidence thingy. just be positive. try to think of the sorts of questions they may ask and if the company has a website go check it out and learn a little about them and their possible future plans - if not, thry to find out some stuff about their industry. Where i work, we always ask applicants what they see as the three big issues that could affect our businees over the next year or two.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: mecch on December 11, 2008, 07:43:16 pm: Quote from: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 06:01:02 pm
I don't know why exactly but something has been lost since then; confidence wise I mean. I really fear they will ask me why I have not worked in almost a year. I really do not want to cite health reasons as the cause if at all possible.

Well thats in interesting dilemma, maybe worthy of its own thread. What could you say... How about "family responsibilities" (helping a sick old relative, or someone else besides yourself to "convalesce" - brother in an accident. etc.).

Wish you luck on your job interview. Will be nice to get back to work I imagine. Shows courage that you lost your job but have rebounded so fast.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Oceanbeach on December 11, 2008, 08:08:00 pm: Quote from: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 06:01:02 pm

I really fear they will ask me why I have not worked in almost a year. I really do not want to cite health reasons as the cause if at all possible.

"I have been doing research to find ways of reducing costs and increase profitability for companies in the (xxx) industry type".

(Or)

"I have been self employed but with the possible changes in the economy and ways companies do business during recession years, I have a family to take care of and full time employment guarantees, I will be able to continue to provide for my wife and children."

Never discuss personal health issues because they will set out a red flag and a higher better qualified applicant will be found. ;D Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: OneTampa on December 11, 2008, 08:24:14 pm: I agree with the responses of others in this thread to your post. You should take the advice of the recruiter regarding interview wear. Make sure your shoes are shined and your threads are crisp and neat. And, don't forget hair, teeth, face and hands.

Bring your confidence with an easy relaxed nature. Of course, I have do doubt you meet the qualifications for the job or you would not have received a call back. Believe me, you will soon get hints from the walk in at the reception desk, greetings and walk down the hall to the interview whether it is a place you want to work.

You may also want to search the internet (google something like "job interview questions and answers") for typical questions you may be asked and responses you may consider that fit you.

I picked up on your concern about being out of work for nearly a year due to illness. Please know that ADA law prohibits certain questions. You may, however, find the following link helpful in providing you a strategy on how to deal with those who try to be clever and approach the topic.

http://employment.findlaw.com/employment/employment-employee-hiring/employment-employee-hiring-hiv.html

It would also be good to know the reason your last employer gave for your exit so that you do not go too far astray in your response strategy.

I venture that you will do just fine and applaud your wanting to go back to work. Just pinch those cheeks, throw your head back and march in there and wow them with your wonderfulness!

Good luck!

Take care.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: PeteNYNJ on December 11, 2008, 08:43:10 pm: Be confident....role play with a friend (get your mind out of the gutter!)

The more practice you have 'selling yourself', the better you will do.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Merlin on December 11, 2008, 09:07:17 pm: And remember to keep a happy, alert and friendly manner at all times. :) Everyone likes being around happy energies. Hiring someone is never based on hard qualifications alone.

Be careful what u decide to disclose that may be referenced. If u say helping a friend or doing research, u may be required to provide references. Safest bet perhaps is to say attending to a close family member, like mum or dad on health issues. Not likely they will haul both of them to verify.

Be self assured and confident. Not many may agree with what I'm about to say, but I strongly believe that if u do your best and still dun get the job, something better is in store. Dun second guess yourself. Depending on the company and position u are applying for, research as much as u can about the company in relevance, just in case they ask. I applied for a senior management position in a major coffee chain many years ago even when I prefer tea to coffee, but studied everything I could about their products. I knew enough then to write a small report. They did not ask anything relating to coffee nor how much i knew about the company. They were more interested in my personal achievements, vision and motivation in general. I eventually turned down the job cos I did not agree with the renumeration package they were proposing in line with my experience and qualifications. So it's not always one way.

Good luck anyways and believe in yourself. ;)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 11, 2008, 11:14:50 pm: Thanks for the advice everyone. I am a pretty sharp dresser if I do say so myself, I was just unsure about the casual business attire request. I've either always suit and tied it, or wore a dress shirt and tie. I am a shoe man by the way.

I think what I am going through confidence wise is just a mental block of sorts. I have isolated myself big time while not being alone. I really don't know how to explain it. It does not make sense to me one bit.

I think getting this job will help me get over this hurdle, but you see it is thinking like this that also makes me put added pressure on myself.

Not bitching and I know I can present a hell of a whoa is me case, but I cannot make heads or tails of what my problem is.

I appreciate everyone who took the time to offer their slice of advice. It did and will help trust me. Damn I hijacked the hell outta my own thread didn't I? ;)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Robert on December 12, 2008, 01:17:25 am: Thomas.

Nothing to add that the others that the others haven't already said. All good advice.

I just want to say what great news. Good luck. Go get 'em.

robto
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Queen Tokelove on December 12, 2008, 01:44:46 am: Good Luck.....
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Oceanbeach on December 12, 2008, 01:56:27 am: Hey Tom,

That FindLaw link is really important and a very good call. I had a phone meeting the other day with one of the founding partners who has moved on and built a competing site. There is no better resource for the lay person, short of getting an audience with god himself. If we had that, we wouldn't be job hunting.

I have used "self-employed" on every interview because, I have been out for 12 years, never got a job anyway and figured if ever asked, "my client list has nondisclosure and using their names would be considered a breach of confidentiality". My job pre AIDS job was running a firm which specialized in designing safety programs. I started designing my own programs while in the hospital with PCP.

Everyone has a confidence problem before going to a job interview. You do have confidence in yourself, we see it here in the Forums all the time. Try this if you will... When you get up every morning, think about something that makes you happy so you begin every day in a more positive manner. Ask your friends and people you have worked with or people in your neighborhood why, they like you. This will build and reinforce your self esteem and by the time you get to the interview, nothing will stop you.

I don't remember if I ever mentioned this but, I got promoted to VP at the firm after my HIV diagnosis. I was in charge of an out bound call center doing business to business calls on reduction of workers' comp claims. The President of the company was doing speaking events at every available conference and one day, he showed up in front of the movers and shakers of the Los Angeles business community, very drunk and I took the podium. I got promoted but front runner in workers' comp reform programs can not take the chance of top management going out on a claim. I was terminated the day after my AIDS diagnosis.

Having been one of the founding members of the Community Reconnect Task Force, an organization developed by and for people living with HIV to get training and/or a job, I became increasingly disappointed that this group has never invited any employer to speak at one of their functions. The colleges were there, the ASO's were there, the AIDS Leadership Academy were there also but, where is the employer at least talking about what to expect in an interview with XYZ Company? ;D Have the best day
Michael
(who believes, sometimes a good thread needs to be hi-jacked)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: David_CA on December 12, 2008, 08:06:40 am: Quote from: fearless on December 11, 2008, 07:25:59 pm
yes indeed. i always base decisions on whether to shag based on the type of shoes one wears. If they ain't got the right shoes they ain't any good in the sack.

Kinda makes it a tough call at a clothing optional men's campground in the summer, wouldn't you say? ;)

Although I haven't interviewed for a job in several years (this month is my 8-year anniversary at my current job), I remember the anxiety. One thing about dress, I've never wanted to 'out dress' my interviewer. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to put the one(s) interviewing me in a position to feel uncomfortable, either, or to make it seem that I'm being pretentious. It's kind of hard know what to wear exactly, but they've done you a big favor by coming right out with it. I'm sure you'll do fine with what you wear (ironed shirt and pants), your hygiene , etc. Now, go kick ass in the interview! I was told many years ago to think about a job interview as me interviewing the company. It's useful for finding out details about the company, position, etc but also for making one feel more comfortable and at ease during the interview. Now, go kick ass in the interview!

David
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 12, 2008, 09:21:26 am: Like always Michael I find your experiences very interesting, thanks for sharing them. Wish I had used the self employed bit. To late now I already fabricated something though, however I think it will work.

I agree David about trying to not outdress the interviewer. Thanks for the good blessings from everyone.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Ann on December 12, 2008, 10:33:59 am: Thomas, Good luck!

Look 'em in the eye (literally) and knock 'em dead! (figuratively) Eye contact is an important aspect of being interviewed and one unfortunately often overlooked. No pun intended. It's easy to be nervous and look at the floor (or your hands or whatever) during an interview, so make a conscious effort to make eye contact. Eye contact exudes a sense of confidence - whether you feel confident or not - and importantly, honesty.

A shoe man? I never would have guessed. ;D

Again, good luck!
Ann
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 12, 2008, 01:30:23 pm: Quote from: Ann on December 12, 2008, 10:33:59 am
A shoe man? I never would have guessed. ;D

LOL yep... Being that you are across the way you might have heard of one of my favorite shoe companies, Clarks. I know they are made in England. Durable and stylish, they are one of my favorite.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Oceanbeach on December 12, 2008, 05:08:56 pm: I went to an interview at an advertising agency in Santa Monica on "casual Friday". Their big client was a home builder, Actor Tom Skeritt was their spokes person. I was professionally dressed, suit, tie, blah, blah, blah and the interviewer was wearing faded jeans. I felt over dressed and had to ask... my interviewer had already been reprimanded that morning for being too casual. Casual Friday means lose the tie ;D Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Seadickrun on December 13, 2008, 05:36:09 am: I spent 20 years doing temp work on the West Coast. Every week I had to make a first impression at a new job. I remember the gig where I showed up to a fishing company here in Seattle wearing a suit and tie, and the boss said, I win. They had told the temp agency that clothing was grungy and they placed bets in the office that the new guy would wear a suit.

I used to work for stock brokers and the hiring manager hired based on looks more than anything else. It was like a modeling agency full of the hottest men I have ever worked with. His phrase was, "He looks like money".

I would still dress up to the nines for an interview and if they say, its business casual, I would smile and say, this IS casual (and I have another interview after this one with your competitor). As for looking better than the interviewer - should I put a bag over my head? Or wear baggy clothes to hide my thin body? Don't hate me 'cause I'm pretty - blame my parents for getting drunk that one night back in the Eisenhower years.

As for the break in your resume, put down Sabbatical. All the cool kids do and you can say you were doing AIDS work (you post here so its all true).
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Oceanbeach on December 14, 2008, 07:14:11 pm: I worked for a temp agency once, I was starting a Clerical Placement Department. I had to find L.A. companies who were looking for clerical employees, negotiate a rate and find the employees to fill positions.

I sent a very brilliant and qualified young woman to a law firm. She decided to dress in a manner she considered stylish but wore combat boots with her dress. She arrived for work on time, the firm called me to release her from employment because her style of dress was not appropriate.

Meanwhile, in the other side of the temp agency, a young woman was sent to a factory job to work in shipping and they had a definite dress code including pants, shirt and "sensible" shoes. She wanted to look good for her first day in her new job and wore a little black dress (backless) and high heels. Her rep got a call upon her arrival, she was released from employment while the warehouse staff laughed at her.

I hated that job more than anything in the world because I had to give people hope with employment and then take it away by firing the person and promising to find them still another job. ;D Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: emeraldize on December 14, 2008, 10:16:43 pm: Quote from: Ann on December 12, 2008, 10:33:59 am
Look 'em in the eye (literally) and knock 'em dead! (figuratively) Eye contact is an important aspect of being interviewed and one unfortunately often overlooked. No pun intended. It's easy to be nervous and look at the floor (or your hands or whatever) during an interview, so make a conscious effort to make eye contact. Eye contact exudes a sense of confidence - whether you feel confident or not - and importantly, honesty.

To add to what Ann said about eye contact---it works both ways. Be just as aware of your interviewer's or interviewers' eye contact with you. If he/she or they cannot look you in the eye be wary. I took a job with a person representing a firm and he rarely looked me in the eye throughout a lengthy interview over lunch. This was after being wooed for nearly a year. Several months later, I understood why he couldn't look me in the eye. The firm was so overrun with dishonesty, self-serving behavior (over which he had zero control as the source was his boss) and he had to have known I was being invited into a lion's den.

You should go in with the attitude that you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you! Be prepared to ask at least two or more questions of them and not about pay or benefits. Ask how they approach problem-solving, do they support continuing education of employees, how do they go after new business markets, or whatever might be relevant to your area of work.

Good luck.
Em
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 14, 2008, 10:47:32 pm: Quote from: emeraldize on December 14, 2008, 10:16:43 pm
You should go in with the attitude that you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you! Be prepared to ask at least two or more questions of them and not about pay or benefits. Ask how they approach problem-solving, do they support continuing education of employees, how do they go after new business markets, or whatever might be relevant to your area of work.

Good luck.
Em

Em,

You've given me some very good ideas. I've looked them up on the internet and they seem like a very good company to work for. I've also heard that quite a few people applied for the four positions that are available.

I'll definitely have to bring my A game.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Florida69 on December 15, 2008, 09:23:27 am: Good luck T, I have faith in your ability and remember clothes sometimes do make the man. D
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: LowProPoz on December 16, 2008, 06:42:42 am: They don't need to know exactly why you take time off. Resolving personal issues sums it up enough.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 16, 2008, 04:50:08 pm: I got the JOB!!!!! I start on January 5!!! Wooo hoooooo!

Just wanted to tell everyone thanks for all the advice given in this thread and also to those of you who sent PM's giving me support.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: PeteNYNJ on December 16, 2008, 04:55:30 pm: That is great news!! Consider yourself lucky, employers are being especially picky since they have a bigger pool to choose from due to the economy.

Here's to a new year and a new beginning :)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Robert on December 16, 2008, 05:30:27 pm: thomas...thomas...thomas.

congratulations ~~~ that is just way to kewl.

You hit it out of the ball park~~ I am just so happy for you.
(Santa is going to be good to the girls this year.)

robt
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Longislander on December 16, 2008, 08:09:40 pm: THOMAS!!! ;D ;D ;D

I'm proud of you man. Big CONGRATULATIONS!

Paul
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Oceanbeach on December 16, 2008, 09:04:05 pm: Oh Tom,

Much congrats! ;D Have the best day
Michael
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Ann on December 17, 2008, 06:09:29 am: Great news, Thomas!

I'm really happy for you and your family too. You might not have the paychecks yet, but I bet you're going to have one happy Christmas.

Yay!

Ann
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Seadickrun on December 17, 2008, 08:07:42 am: Congrats!!

But its gonna keep me up all night - what shoes did you wear? And did you look the interviewer in the eye?
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 17, 2008, 08:24:58 am: Thanks guys, I am so excited and can't wait to start.

Quote from: Seadickrun on December 17, 2008, 08:07:42 am
Congrats!!

But its gonna keep me up all night - what shoes did you wear? And did you look the interviewer in the eye?

Of course I looked her in the eye and every where else too ;). (j/k)

Since you must know here is a pic of the shoes worn to said interview:

(http://www.softmoc.com/sys/ShowImg.asp?Img=items/images/78866M.jpg)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Seadickrun on December 17, 2008, 08:39:42 am: Thanks - I'll wear a pair to my next interview and see if it helps:) Personally, I couldn't give a hoo-hah about shoes but my mother was firmly convinced that they made or broke the man. She always looked at shoes first and judged people by them:)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 17, 2008, 09:08:23 am: Congrats! What great news!
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: David_CA on December 17, 2008, 09:38:09 am: Yea! Way to go! I'm really happy for you and wish you the best on Jan 5th. What a way to start out the new year!

David
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Andy Velez on December 17, 2008, 10:06:33 am: Well done, Thomas! Good luck with the job.

And let us know what other people are wearing at that office! LOL

Awaiting your reports.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: emeraldize on December 17, 2008, 12:32:35 pm: This is great news! Have fun.
And, buy a lot of shoe polish, you have REALLY big shoes.
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 17, 2008, 12:59:48 pm: Quote from: emeraldize on December 17, 2008, 12:32:35 pm
This is great news! Have fun.
And, buy a lot of shoe polish, you have REALLY big shoes.

LMAO!! I feel blessed to be able to contribute monetarily to my families' household once again! What a relief....

Thanks
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: OneTampa on December 17, 2008, 08:04:53 pm: Congratulations Thomas!! ;D
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Merlin on December 17, 2008, 10:08:39 pm: Congrats Thomas !..Gr8 start to the brand new year! Have fun.. :)
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: Ann on December 18, 2008, 07:53:07 am: Quote from: emeraldize on December 17, 2008, 12:32:35 pm
This is great news! Have fun.
And, buy a lot of shoe polish, you have REALLY big shoes.

Big shoes, Thomas? Does that mean you have... erm... never mind! ;D
Title: Re: Need some help on this one....
Post by: skeebo1969 on December 18, 2008, 10:12:33 am: Quote from: Ann on December 18, 2008, 07:53:07 am
Big shoes, Thomas? Does that mean you have... erm... never mind! ;D

Yes.... erm... I have really long toes ;)