POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Valmont on June 29, 2011, 05:31:04 pm
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I´m playing a team contact sport at a national level but nonprofessional.
Today, I´ve talked to a good friend of mine that play in the same team too about my condition, everything great from him, a good support till we talked about sport. I've been surprised and disappointed of his reaction, he told me I should not play any more to avoid contaminating other people, to avoid having to feel guilty in the future if anyone was contaminated by my fault and that I would have to talk with the directive as soon as possible... He also told me that for sure if anyone else in this sport found him contaminated, he could says that it is my fault...
My sport is a "macho sport", I'm living in a "macho Latino country" and I'm not completely convinced about open mind other there... and I don't feel ready to tell this...
Now, am I irresponsible and selfish, thinking in wanting to play as soon as a I can do it?
Really can I expose someone to VIH?
What about precedents, do you know HIV sporting people (except Magic Johnson, that ended his Carrier just as soon as he knew his contamination)?
I'm sure the risk is very very low (but still exists), I'm sure that other contaminated people play without saying anything... If I can get some material about that, it would be great...
What do you think? HIV is compatible with this kind of sport? I feel a little disoriented, my doc told me I could going on, it was not the best but that nobody could forbid me to play...
This sport is very important for me, it helped me to support many bad years in an adversive medium and I want to play it a far as I can... Last year I've been hurt all the season and I was so happy to go back, but now I feel terrible... This sport is very important in my way of life and I will be very depresive to have to end playing... My first changes relationated with my new life are very very hard to accept...
So strange, I´m sure nobody in the team will exclude me directly, but at the end, I´m going to finish to exclude by myself as a responsible attitude...
I don't think telling this to my friend was my best idea today...
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Valmont, keep playing your sport. Hiv does not mean you cannot participate in contact sports, with the possible exception of boxing.
Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus and it's not going to be transmitted during a game of sport. It's not happened yet and it's probably never going to happen. Any player, regardless of their perceived hiv - or hep B or C status, for that matter - should all be treated with universal precautions once an injury is bad enough to cause bleeding.
Your friend probably just doesn't know all the detailed ins and outs about hiv transmission. If it gets brought up again, tell him that your team mates and opponents both are safe as long as you use condoms when you play dirty in the locker room. ;)
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Hi Valmont,
I agree with Ann.
In Australia numerous contact sports (rugby league, rugby union and Australian rules football) use a "blood bin" which requires injured players who are bleeding to be off the field until their bleeding is staunched, but this has no real basis in HIV science.
The "blood bin" was introduced in the late 80s during the Great AIDS Panic of the early part of the epidemic.
It's got more to do with legal issues than anything.
MtD
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Thanks Ann and Matty...
Ann, unfortunatelly, we don´t have lokers, this is third world: no shower after the game !!!!
I'm not optimist, I spoke to someone that was really open comparatively to the rest of the people.
In this sport, when you have a bloody cut, you can get out for 10 minutes for bleeding stopping and then going back, as a precaution. Personally I don't see any mayor risk... but I'm not impartial anymore !
I believe I will have to go and look for another sport, or to fight and make an official question to the National Federation for them to statute and this is going to make noise and I'm not ready for that...
So bad days......
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just another example of why we sholud keep our lips zipped about this stuff.
sorry you had to deal with that extra bullshit. play the sport. its good for you.
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just another example of why we sholud keep our lips zipped about this stuff.
sorry you had to deal with that extra bullshit. play the sport. its good for you.
It's nothing of the sort. ::)
MtD
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Blood...Semen...Vaginal Fluid....Breastmilk..
A lot of people that play sports still don't understand that sweat is not a part of the above list of the only ways that HIV can be transmitted from person to person..I'm not familar with the contact sport u are playing but I do know that HIV is a very weak virus and can only survive outside the body for about a minute or maybe even less..I hope that you will be able to enjoy your playing your sport and don't worry about contaminating anybody else..It is nearly impossible, with the exception of maybe boxing as Ann was saying.
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It is nearly impossible, with the exception of maybe boxing as Ann was saying.
And how does that happen? You punch a pozzer and his blood flies into your unsuspecting innocent eyes and boom you're infected! :o
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I said "maybe"...I'm really not too sure the odds of that happening..But I do know there is more bloodshed in boxing..That's the only reason I said that.
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I said "maybe"...I'm really not too sure the odds of that happening..But I do know there is more bloodshed in boxing..That's the only reason I said that.
I know, I know. I was just joking ;)
I am surprised they haven't used my version in some movie.
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I know, I know. I was just joking ;)
I am surprised they haven't used my version in some movie.
Sounds like it would be a Lifetime Movie Network kinda thing ;)
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Lifetime Movie Network
I don't live in the US- just had to look that up. lol. But it does sound like it would be the right fit for that channel.
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just another example of why we sholud keep our lips zipped about this stuff.
sorry you had to deal with that extra bullshit. play the sport. its good for you.
For sure... I believe being honest is not always the good way, "doble discurso"... "We are more than a team, a familly ! So trust us, but anyway, don´t expose us, you still can play but none in a contact situation..." That is really great to play Rugby that way...
Ignorance is still what has to be fighted, I believe it is a lost battle. In the future, if someone ask me what to do in a similar situation, I would recommand not to tell anything...
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For sure... I believe being honest is not always the good way, "doble discurso"... "We are more than a team, a familly ! So trust us, but anyway, don´t expose us, you still can play but none in a contact situation..." That is really great to play Rugby that way...
Ignorance is still what has to be fighted, I believe it is a lost battle. In the future, if someone ask me what to do in a similar situation, I would recommand not to tell anything...
Amen my friend
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Ignorance is still what has to be fighted, I believe it is a lost battle. In the future, if someone ask me what to do in a similar situation, I would recommand not to tell anything...
I attended a workshop on HIV and disclosure about two years ago, and one of the speakers said something that kind of relates to what you wrote: if you are not having sex with someone, or if telling that person is not beneficial to you healthwise, then you are not obliged to tell them!
Karry
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We´ll play an important match next sunday, we are few available people, most of the team is injured, I was previsted to play but my "friend" ask me for not playing because of risks of posible contamination, I sent him info but he still insists... He sugested me to pretext any health matter not to play an for avoiding exposing the others... This means auto-exclusion... I don´t think I should speak with the coach, I expect a worste reaction... This don´t have any sense, they always say we are a familly and I believed it... This hurts me almost more than knowing me infected... Anyway, I´m thinking in going to the match.
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Val, how many of your team-mates actually accurately know their hiv status?
Who is more dangerous to others, the person who knows they have hiv and will make sure any bleeding cuts are promptly taken care of, or the person who only assumes they are hiv negative and carries on playing in the macho tradition of "it's only a little cut?"
Go play your game. There's no good reason for you not to.
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I'm curious about which sport that is. Really, even if you gush out blood onto someone, it would have to be on an equally open wound and it's the kind of impossible thing that only fools believe in. Your friend might be one of them.
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I'm curious about which sport that is.
That is really great to play Rugby that way...
And you're correct, LM, far-fetched scenarios like that just don't happen in the real world.
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Ah, thanks Ann, missed that one. ;D
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Don't worry Valmont, just go and have some fun in your match! I'm sorry to say this, but your "friend's" view seem pretty ignorant to me. In fact, is good for you to keep playing so you can keep your mind out of this disease, at least for a while.
Agh, I had to stop going to the gym a month ago due a strange pain on my right elbow-upper forearm and I'm missing it already....
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What about meds to reduce vl?
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Well, I´m going to go this rugby match... Thank you Raf, I completly agree with you, more other, since I know my infection, I´ve been practicing more sport and physically feel much better; I hope you´ll recuperate well soon to go back to gym.
About VL, I´ve no idea of my situation, I´ll have my first results in almost one month more.
But I think if VL is undetectable (not my case), transmission possibilities are "much more less than less"........
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Well, I´m going to go this rugby match...
Good for you, Val, and I hope you win and you score the most points. That'll show 'em! ;)
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Val,
I'm a competitive athlete as well. My sport keeps me going and also is a big motivator to keep me in shape and healthy. I had to go without it for a season due to an injury and it was terrible--I missed it so badly. So--I compete. My HIV status is no one's business in this circumstance. I don't feel like I hiding anything at all. I don't think there would be an issue IF I disclosed my HIV status, but this is ONE place in my life where HIV has no connection. I'm not the HIV poster boy here and I get to just be me.
I also box and play rugby and have had no issues at all.
Enjoy your sport!
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Well, I´m going to go this rugby match...
About VL, I´ve no idea of my situation, I´ll have my first results in almost one month more.
But I think if VL is undetectable (not my case), transmission possibilities are "much more less than less"........
Good for you Val....
I have two nieces who play rugby competitively and there is a greater risk in their suffering from the long term effects of concussions then there is in there contracting a blood borne illness...
The International Federation long ago recognized -- there relatively low risk of transmission along with the importance of adopting and exercising universal precautions in the case of an open wound...
It is unfortunate that your friend and team mate whom you trusted has had such a negative reaction.....
While the following statement, which is still posted on the SARU official website takes a slightly different approach with respect to the reasons a 'player should discontinue participation in the sport' it appears as though he is not alone.....
"To discourage them from participating in this high intensity sport as it poses a serious health risk to the player. It is a reasonable assumption in many quarters though not scientifically well documented and studied that high intensity activity suppresses the immune system of any athlete in broad generic terms. It is common knowledge that HIV positive individuals already have a depleted immune system and hence the problem can be further compounded"
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While the following statement, which is still posted on the SARU official website takes a slightly different approach with respect to the reasons a 'player should discontinue participation in the sport' it appears as though he is not alone.....
"To discourage them from participating in this high intensity sport as it poses a serious health risk to the player. It is a reasonable assumption in many quarters though not scientifically well documented and studied that high intensity activity suppresses the immune system of any athlete in broad generic terms. It is common knowledge that HIV positive individuals already have a depleted immune system and hence the problem can be further compounded"
What a disappointing, out-dated load of clap-trap. I could see perhaps an ultra-cautious stance for players who have hep C, as hep C is FAR more easily transmitted than hiv. But hiv? No way.
And to dress it up in concern for the hiv positive player is just skirting the real issue. Exercise is good for us and so is the camaraderie and team spirit that goes along with playing a team sport. It's a shame that attitudes like this persist into the 21st century.
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My friends are "evolutionating" about that matter, they are looking for documentation and seem to understand better how things are working, but I realize they don´t feel confortable... Anyway, I´m not seeing much problems that way for now...
By another way, my wife´s completly forbidden me to play any match or any training, she affraid I can injure me and also that I should be treated properly in an good hospital because of my condition, or having complications... Problem still remains. I don´t want to fight with everybody, I feel selfish and like a 5 years old boy that do want to do something... I discussed a little with her but didn´t want to enter in a conflict. "This" hit us so strongly, I feel very guilty for everything and thinking of doing the sport I like in that condition seems me very unappropriated...
Next week, I will retire me from the team, ure, this affect a lot my "positive attitude".
Another question: is that real that high intensity sports affects immunity system???? I´m not sure I undestood everything... I was believeing that no...
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As a conclusion...
At the end, I did not played the match because of "possible risk of contamination" on my partners...
I meet yesterday my two coatchs with my friends who knew about my condition. They were really kind with me. Definitively, and because of the way how safety and innocuity are managed here, and as precaution measures they prefer me not to play any more... The other way would be revelate my state publically because they believe that everybody how is playing with me should know to what he can be exposed... So I retired from the team as a player... This is y first consequence of having been contaminated... Definitivaly, the hardest is not the desease itself, it is the way how people deal with yours...
At the end, they don´t have any real idea about the transmition modes...
Anyway, I will have some more administratiev responsabilities in the club...
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Another question: is that real that high intensity sports affects immunity system???? I´m not sure I undestood everything... I was believeing that no...
Hi Valmont,
The only thing I've ever heard or read is the following. A certain book, after encouraging "regular, moderate exercise", says:
"However, if you increase the intensity of your exercise without training gradually--as weekend warriors do--your body will switch into alarm mode. The stress hormone cortisol will be released...High cortisol leads to muscle wasting, lowered metabolism, and weight gain. The better trained you are, the further you can go without getting into cortisol production. That is why gradual athletic training is important."
Since cortisol is supposed to be bad for the immune system, this may the sort of thing they had in mind. But notice, even if this is true, it is not an argument against playing sports, even very intense ones--it is only an argument against doing so suddenly on the part of someone who is not prepared for it.
I've become more athletic in the last year and it has done me a lot of good. It is true that in the beginning sometimes I pushed myself too hard, too fast, and that on those occasions I suffered for it a bit afterwards but when I got used to things that stopped happening, and now mostly I feel very good after exercise.
Anyway, I'm really sorry to hear about your having not to play the match. Maybe there are other opportunities to play team sports? With people who are less frightened? Maybe even form a team for people with HIV, if there are enough of them where you live? If not, there's always swimming and hiking and such things.
By the way, the statement about HIV+ individuals being well-known to have "depleted immune systems" really annoys me--it's as if they cannot distinguish between someone in a hospital with ten t-cells and someone who still is still healthy.
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By the way, the statement about HIV+ individuals being well-known to have "depleted immune systems" really annoys me--it's as if they cannot distinguish between someone in a hospital with ten t-cells and someone who still is still healthy.
That drives me nuts too. ::)
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Thank you Nestor, for your interesting and very explicative comment. Sure it is really important to have a good physical state for high intensity exercice. Exercing 3 times a week seems me the minimum for that...
About rugby, my coach seems to know more, but is very prudent... I put you a link he sent me, the positive fact is that he is looking for more information. What happen is strange, really I don´t feel any discrimination or something like that with people I talked in this sport (4 of them), I can say that they are a good support as friends, they pushed my name to be one of the directive board; but by the way, I´m disappointed to have to stop playing... Maybe if I move I should keep my mouth closed!?
I´m looking for any alternative, I used to swim a lot some years ago, maybe I´ll go back in this... Unfortunately, running makes me loose weight quicking...
http://www.sarugby.net/article.aspx?category=sarugby/sportsdoctor&id=219678
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I was about to post a new link asking the exact same question as you did. And then found this thread.
I also play a full-contact sport and similar thoughts had crossed my mind.
I asked my Dr last year whether I should continue playing, having explained the sport to him. He told me to go ahead and play. He told me the virus is so feeble, that it dies within seconds of exposure to air and my blood would have to come into direct contact with another open wound to even have any chance of infecting anyone. The nature of the sport I play makes that possibility extremely unlikely. (Similar to rugby)
In my sports bag, I carry a variety of bandages and rubber gloves to each game so that if need be I can be treated safely on the sideline.
The "horse has already bolted" in your case because you already divulged your status to the uneducated teammates (which included me until I became poz). I have not told anyone and if I do ever suffer an injury, I guess I will deal with that when it happens; kinda like the way we have to handle this virus in general.
Move to a new city and start again :). The world needs more sexy rugger buggers :)
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I agree with Zorro (and everyone else), move somewhere if possible or switch to another sport you like, but its a shame if HIV and your teammates blatant ignorance on transmission hold you back from doing what you love. That very ignorance is what perpetuates HIV transmission, people simply not knowing the facts. not you playing your sport. Ann raises a very good point in the fact that they are likely to not even aware of their own HIV statuses and are therefore a greater threat to infecting others. You pose very little risk and even less when you are medicated, I'm tempted to say you pose no risk at all.
It doesn't seem like you're going to get to play, at least in the near future, but I highly suggest you pursue a sport where this won't even be an issue, or get to play somewhere else in the future.
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Thanks a lot for your interest, here is a link that my staff used for its decision:
http://www.sarugby.net/article.aspx?category=sarugby/sportsdoctor&id=219678
I´m very involved in this sport, for now I´m managing all administrative matters and I still train in case of.... but without any contacts. This make me in a strange situation because I have a very good physical state and my partners wonder why I´m not in the team for matches (moreover, we have a problem with the quantity of team player).
Because of the decision of my staff, I decided not no expose me and other to contacts. My staff ask me to disclose for allowing the other players in my team and other to be aware of the risk and to accept it. Í won´t disclose publicly because of the way this infection is managed here, and because it can affect mu job and my familly.
Please, give me your opinion about the link I put...
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Please, give me your opinion about the link I put...
Ugh, when I read the article I couldn't believe my eyes...they don't have scientific proof to rule out an HIV infection..but they don't have any data regarding risks either! so what's the way they choose? separate the HIV+ players from the field!
The only thing they will achieve with this is an overgrown fear to disclose or even take the HIV test away.
You are a very patient and dedicated person valmont, if I were in your shoes I would have thrown the team uniform on their faces and left that team for good.
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Well, no surprises here, as usual the Aussies got it right. Show your team this link
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/HIV_AIDS_hepatitis_and_sport
As for the other link, its from S. Africa...they had apartheid until 1994.....should anything they say be heeded?
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Well, no surprises here, as usual the Aussies got it right. Show your team this link
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/HIV_AIDS_hepatitis_and_sport
Great page, thanks for linking to it. I'm sure it will come in handy over in "Am I". :-*
Ugh, when I read the article I couldn't believe my eyes...they don't have scientific proof to rule out an HIV infection..but they don't have any data regarding risks either! so what's the way they choose? separate the HIV+ players from the field!
The only thing they will achieve with this is an overgrown fear to disclose or even take the HIV test away.
Yeah, and I love how they start out by saying that strenuous sport isn't good for us pozzies. ("To discourage them from participating in this high intensity sport as it poses a serious health risk to the player.") What a load of crap! It's just an excuse - a smokescreen - like they're trying to say it's for our own good and not the real reasons of ignorance and stigma.
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Ok, I go on and will break the staff´s nuts another time...
The article form Southafrica just cut for me all possibility to play, and after received it, I accepted I won´t play anymore when they sent it to me...
About why I did not went out from my team, well, I gave so much in the last years for it, I have good reminds and good friends there. After all, people to whom I disclosed have been very suportive in a personal way, have no changed their way how to deal with me; the only problem is their bad knowledge about HIV and how to deal with it. I´m sure they want to do the best for all, for me and the rest of the team. I understand this is not a easy situation to deal with. I´m sure they should look for international advises... Unfortunatelly, internet is plettly of bull shit about HIV and you can find anything you want to read about it...
Raf, thanks for your comment, I was thinking in doing what you says, but I think it is much more usefull to stay and work for improving innocuity management in injuries on field and oblige staff to deal with this kind of matter, unfortunatelly, I know I won´t be the last one in this case...
Zorro, thanks to your link, this allows me to add a new argument and make some kind of extra pressure to my staff...
Ann, it would have been funny if it won´t be official from an high rugby organization and a country so badly hit by HIV...
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Shit, I send the link you gave me to my staff and I received another time Southafrica´s link...
They insist on the following:
About the link:
3. There have been no cases of H.I.V. positive individuals reported in rugby. It is our opinion that although the risk of transmission of the H.I.V. in rugby is infinitesimally small, there is still a risk. Players with known H.I.V. infection should seek medical, psychological and legal counselling before considering participation in order to assess the risks to their own health as well as the theoretical risk of H.I.V. transmission to other players.
We should discourage participation in rugby by H.I.V. positive individuals.
The comments from my staff:
el riesgo aca es todavia menor, pero sigue existiendo el riesgo, de todas maneras es valido que consultes con un abogado... porque el dia de manana aparece uno de otro equipo con el mismo problema, y despues van a decir que fue por jugar al rugby y no por otra fuente. y que es culpa tuya.
I translate and put into context:
The risk is menor but still exists, anyway it is important to ask to a lawer... because one day someone from another team appears with the same problem (infection by HIV), they can say and accuse me of being responsable and that their infection is for being playing rugby.
This comment seems me interesting and I would like your opinion about it. This is this aspect that motivate some of the staff to recommand me to avoid playing in contact situations.
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Good news, at the end, my staff has contacted our National Federation (keeping confidentiality about me) and they ask me to be examined by the National Medical Center for Sportmen to have a decision about that.
I believe these are the people best prepared to decide what should be done in my case, and I hope to go back and play very soon.
My staff will accept its decision whatever it can be.
I will go there in the enxt 15 days...
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Val, I'd suggest that you print out the information from the link Zorro provided to show the doctors at the Medical Center so they know there is a precedent for positive players being permitted to play their sport.
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Val, I'd suggest that you print out the information from the link Zorro provided to show the doctors at the Medical Center so they know there is a precedent for positive players being permitted to play their sport.
That is an excellent idea !!!! Thank you Ann...
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That is an excellent idea !!!! Thank you Ann...
You're welcome, Val, and good luck. Let us know how the meeting/exam goes.
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Ok, the story goes on......
The Medics from National Medical Center asked me some more details about my "desease", so I had to disclose to the Federation President who is a friend of mines (better said a good knowlegde) and explain what was going on...
Our Federation has no Medical Commision that normaly should manage that kind of matter, at the end, it has been asked to a medic from National Medical Center and another one from antidoping (!!!!!) if I still could play... They asked me for a certificate form a Med with a speciality in HIV (....my medic !!!) that says I´m a safe HIV infected people (ok...) and that I´m not in a "infecting period" (it means that I cannot infect anybody....)
I´m not really sure that this kind of medic knows anything about HIV, for sure, my HIV medic will never give me that kind of certificate and remind me that a small risk still exists, that it is not recommanded to play...
That´s it, nobody wants to take any decision because they don´t want to be accused for discrimination, and the new tendance is now to make ones auto-exclude to solve the problems to everybody...
That is what I´m finally about to do...
Last week I played contacts.... I could see my coach watching me all the time (without bad intentions...). I also realized that I was so scared to hurt me and have a blooding injury that I was not able to play.
I believe it is not a good idea for me to play I think at the end... I´m sad, I feel alone despite no one excluded me, it is a strange situation...
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Ok, the story goes on......
The Medics from National Medical Center asked me some more details about my "desease", so I had to disclose to the Federation President who is a friend of mines (better said a good knowlegde) and explain what was going on...
Our Federation has no Medical Commision that normaly should manage that kind of matter, at the end, it has been asked to a medic from National Medical Center and another one from antidoping (!!!!!) if I still could play... They asked me for a certificate form a Med with a speciality in HIV (....my medic !!!) that says I´m a safe HIV infected people (ok...) and that I´m not in a "infecting period" (it means that I cannot infect anybody....)
I´m not really sure that this kind of medic knows anything about HIV, for sure, my HIV medic will never give me that kind of certificate and remind me that a small risk still exists, that it is not recommanded to play...
That´s it, nobody wants to take any decision because they don´t want to be accused for discrimination, and the new tendance is now to make ones auto-exclude to solve the problems to everybody...
That is what I´m finally about to do...
Last week I played contacts.... I could see my coach watching me all the time (without bad intentions...). I also realized that I was so scared to hurt me and have a blooding injury that I was not able to play.
I believe it is not a good idea for me to play I think at the end... I´m sad, I feel alone despite no one excluded me, it is a strange situation...
There has never been a case of HIV being transmitted through this sort of casual contact, even on the footy field. If your coach really had an issue or grounds to exclude you, he'd have done it by now.
So play. You won't infect anyone.
If the Powers That Be have a problem with you playing, make them exclude you on a formal basis. Get from them the reasons in writing for why you should not be allowed to play football.
In short, create a fuss.
MtD
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Thanks Matt...
I play Rugby... Nobody here has the arguments to exclude me, in fact medics and sport directives are very carefully about how they says things...
It is recommended to me to avoid any contact situation because of a small risk...
This is important because if I still want to play, I´m the one who is irresponsible and expose the others..........
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I wanted to share with you what happened to me last week...
I travelled with my team for referee works about a match they had to play, but only 13 people were on the field...
My coach asked me if I had my shoes and so on (I always bring them....), and no problem, he put me to play the game...
After the game, National Federation President called me to congratulate about the game...
Sometimes, things just don´t have any logic... It is important to fight for what you like and don´t give up, or to break some rules...
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Were you able to negotiate "anything" in your favour with the coach before joining the match ? If I were you, I would have demanded before playing, to be allowed to participate in all the future trainings and matches (and not just only when the team is in a bind..... = short of a "healthy" player.)
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I take what each day gives me...
I believe I cannot be extremely insistant, because I think that attitude of my coach and other people can change from indifference to reject to me... I try to be asquiet as I can...
I prefer earning small things and be patient than taking the risk of loosing everything... People are so strange sometimes...
For now, I have to accept to fullfill the team when people don´t go, then, after a time, I will ask to go back...
Last week end, I could play another time. I´m really about going back completelly to the team, I think it is for a few more months. When some one ask me why I don´t play despite of my physical state and level, I send him to my coach...
On december, we will receive Southamerican beach games and I will go as an official with Federation. It will be the possibility to talk with IRB directives and to put clea things here (or not.... depending of those guys...)
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Hey Valmont,
not easy, I can feel what you are saying.. When it take you, sport can be the center of the life, a way of living, and much more. I have been in ur shoes. Loosing the opportunity to train, live it, feel it, practice it is a real big lost. Then you realize there are others sport. Sure, not the fav one (for now), but still, plenty others..
Best to u
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Hey John, what have you been playing?
For sure you´re completely right. In my case, all my social world is around that sport. For sure, there are other sports and I know I´d rather look for something more quiet maybe... But in general, giving up is not of my options...
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Hi Val. I get what you're saying about biding your time. Every journey starts with the first step and being played last week was a first step. Hopefully in time, you will be playing in every game. Sometimes we do need to practice patience. We can't change people's minds overnight, but by standing our ground and being patient, we can get there in the end. Hope you get to play again soon. This is really ground-breaking stuff, so stick at it and win this victory for us all. Thank you!
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Hi Valmont. Keep us posted (how things goes, how u feel, u know).
Continue enjoying playing rugby. As long as you withdraw urself from the field if u are bleeding, the risk to infect others is very low..
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Thank you all for your interest.
The risk to infect anyone else is null if I don´t bleed, I believe...
Ann, for sure, there is nothing more than being patient, but not so much !!! I don´t want to be allowed to play at 60 y.o......
For what I managed in last 6 months, the best has been to be present, to show interest, to show to people that nothing has changed and that I´m still the same. I think it takes time too, for the other people to manage it... I´m sure nothing good can be done with force or against people... In this time, I´ve never received so many responsabilities in my team and Federation, I try to do thing well and demonstrate they can trust me, I also want to work against stigmas and make things easier for someone with HIV in the future... But the most important for me right now is to go back on field till my health can allow me to do it...
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The risk to infect anyone else is null if I don´t bleed, I believe...
Ann, for sure, there is nothing more than being patient, but not so much !!! I don´t want to be allowed to play at 60 y.o......
For what I managed in last 6 months, the best has been to be present, to show interest, to show to people that nothing has changed and that I´m still the same. I think it takes time too, for the other people to manage it... I´m sure nothing good can be done with force or against people... In this time, I´ve never received so many responsabilities in my team and Federation, I try to do thing well and demonstrate they can trust me, I also want to work against stigmas and make things easier for someone with HIV in the future... But the most important for me right now is to go back on field till my health can allow me to do it...
While u see a risk null if u don't bleed, fact is they see the risk if u bleed.
Still, it is very low.
Personally, I choosed to practice others sports: as I wasnt willing to disclose the others my status, it was, on my eyes, the only option. But this a personal choice. I respect yours!
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Thank you John, sure it is a personnal matter, definitively... and people is divided about it...
I´m 34, for age I will be out soon. Also I know that when I´ll be on med, with side effects on bones and articulation, I won´t be possible to play any more...
By another way, I was thinking in stopping completely playing, but one of my rugby friends tells me to avoid any precipitate decision and that probably that mentality in the team is going to change...
Also, in a Rugby forum, people incentivate me not to stop playing...
For now, I training 3 a week but avoid contact situation each time I can and yes, I´m afaid for a bad injury and bleeding, despites I´ve never seen it here...
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It's heartbreaking reading u Valmont.
A simple rugby helmet should do the trick.
Also I know that when I´ll be on med, with side effects on bones and articulation, I won´t be possible to play any more...
Why should u have any of these side effects before years, if you do?
By another way, I was thinking in stopping completely playing, but one of my rugby friends tells me to avoid any precipitate decision and that probably that mentality in the team is going to change...
Also, in a Rugby forum, people incentivate me not to stop playing...
For now, I training 3 a week but avoid contact situation each time I can and yes, I´m afaid for a bad injury and bleeding, despites I´ve never seen it here...
You have time to think about the future. No reasons to take immediate decisions.
My 2 cents you will infect no one, as very unlikely.
I would encourage you starting a treatment, could it be early, but again here, it's a personal decision, to be discussed, when u are ready, with your id doc.
Best my friend
John
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It's heartbreaking reading u Valmont.
A simple rugby helmet should do the trick.
Why should u have any of these side effects before years, if you do?
You have time to think about the future. No reasons to take immediate decisions.
My 2 cents you will infect no one, as very unlikely.
I would encourage you starting a treatment, could it be early, but again here, it's a personal decision, to be discussed, when u are ready, with your id doc.
Best my friend
John
Although not a contact sport I continue to run and workout and compete. I've been on meds for 3.5 years now and have had no side effects on my joints...They had always hurt...lol...At 51 I can run a 21 minute 5k, not bad for an old guy and usually place in the top few percent of "healthy" people
My point is don't let meds stop anyone from athletics
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Ok, great, thanks a lot for your supportive words.
About starting soon a treatment, for now, I´m waiting to my second set of lab exams, for January. Last one were VL 170.000 and CD4 510, in june. From june, I got 5 kg more and feel much better.
I know it is important to start soon a treatment to cut down VL and decrease transmition risks. Also I believe it is better to star when CD4 is nearer 500 than 350, it is my personal appreciation. But anyway, if my VL is under 100.000 and my CD4 above 500, I don´t think I should start medication.
It is important to read you, Buf, this is the kind of things that really tranquilize. It is always easy to read about bad effects and problems, but we forget that most of the time, everything goes right...
And I could play once again last week end in rugby beach, yeahhh !!!
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It's not really about lack of information, in my opinion. Fear is such an irrational thing...I know that planes are safe but when I'm up there I still feel scared and insecured.
I think a lot of people know how to get HIV (like your teammate) but they still get frightened even by a small physical contact. Everyone knows you can't get HIV through kissing but still a lot of people would run away like hell if asked to kiss someone with HIV.
It's the animal, irrational part of us. Unfortunately.
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I think you´re right... And I don´t see any solution to that, unfortunatelly...
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Hey Valmont,
I am glad to hear that you have fought the stigma and were able to play and sure could see your efforts to play and set your mind doing that. I am also glad to notice that you are getting the necessary vaccines that you need. You are doing all the right things to fight to get your rights and also save your life and take care of yourself.
I sometimes though think about your wife. I could relate to her. I have had a situation where I could not make myself to go to the doctor. So, I know the feelings of not going to doc in somewhat.
Were you able to convince your wife who you think might be positive (hope she isn't but you will never know unless she goes to doc). Has she taken any vaccines, has she gone to doc yet? Were you able to put your efforts to convince her to go to doc yet? You never know she may need the vaccines like you.
I am sorry if I am interfering your personal business but I just so think of her every so often and sometimes wonder if she needs the treatment that you are getting for yourself. The level of efforts that you had shown to play the contact sports, I do not doubt your ability to convince her to get the treatment that she needs ( if she is poz like you). Will you let us know?
N.B. Sorry its not fully thread related. The reason I have decided to put this in the public forum rather than in PM is because lots of us are aware of this situation and will be able to get the answer. Or is it just me that remember this – May be so or may be not. Or it’s just that I so could relate to her.
Since
(Who often wonders…)
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Hi Since...
It is not the adecuate thread, but no matter I think...
About my wife, this is all a problem that makes me very very VERY worried !!!
We got separated few months ago, she left with my son to 300 km, she needed some distance from me. But we see every 2 weeks and then, have a normal couple life.
She has been hitten very strongly by the news of my infection, maybe more that I... She is also frightened about stigma that exist here, her fathers have very strong words for people infected (they don´t know...)...
We had many problems before that, and she had a lot of other kind of problem, so that started an important depression in her. She is treated for that.
She still does not want to do the test, but starts to undestand it is important not to wait too long, and also that HIV doesn´t mean death...
Last week, I was really angry, she went to her psychac and told him about my situation. I don´t know what he can have told her, during the week end she had many problem with stress and high blood presure. Other king of recommandation was that condoms are not trustable and that in our case we should use 2, one on the other (!!!!!!!!!!!! - Don´t do this, it is the best way for them to break !!!!). The best for the end, he told her many people infected with HIV are depressed and the more probable is that her depression is probable caused by VIH... But how can he tell her something like that if she did not even done the test????? In my case, because I´m not depresive, he said that I probably denying the situation. I don´t think I´m denying anything, living my life, trying to fullfill my dreams instead of crying is not denying, or not??? .
I don´t undestand how some health "profesional" are prepared...
So here we are... Few weeks ago, she was talking about doing the test and being accompagned by a friend; for know, she is so stressed that I think it should be better to wait some days before talking about that. I cannot even thinking of showing weakness if my wife is the way she is, I try to be so supportive as I can, and generate tranquility
Thanks Goodness, Today she seems muuuuuuch more better. It is complicated because in these days, I cannot travel easily, I´m plenty
In my case, I´m about having my second round of exams. Last weeks, and particularly last days (i slept little, done less exercice, worked a lot and be very stressed too, I received 3 shots in 10 days), I noticed I have some linphatic node that have ingreased. On august, I only had one or two that were inflammed, but know there are many in different parts of my body and I can feel them (they don´t hurt). I´m a little worry, but as everything else go good, I don´t think I shall be very alarmed, won´t I???
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Val, it's common for people with hiv to have enlarged lymph nodes. Try to not worry too much about them, but DO show your doctor.
Your wife's psych doctor knows f*ck-all about hiv and should probably keep his mouth shut on the subject. I hope your wife didn't believe what he said about condoms.
Also, I do not believe I've ever heard of people with undiagnosed hiv suffering from depression due to hiv. And his assumption that you are in denial because you're not depressed says a lot more about his attitude towards hiv than anything. All in all, he sounds like a pretty crappy doctor.
I hope your wife tests before it's too late, for your child's sake if nothing else. It happens all the time that a person with undiagnosed hiv feels fine one week, and is in hospital fighting for their life the next. If I were you, I'd be tempted to drag her in to a testing center kicking and screaming if necessary. I know you can't do that, but damn. It must be so intensely frustrating for you!
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Thank you Ann...
Sure I don´t know where she found this #/$"?@ doctor, a friend of hers recommended it to her...
It really sucks, I´d also get her for testing. When I told her, just the day after, before she could think a lot, I took her to my clinic, people were very kind, they talked with her. But unfortunately, they were no possibility to test there... Then, we were waiting for Canada medical exams, for migration but wheeeeeen will they be done??? (remember I´m still in a process to get permanent visa for Canada). Orden should have arrived two months ago... And well, she told me she would not use medicine and things like this, by another way, I tell her to do it not for her, in the worst of the cases, but for our son... Really, she deals very wrong with this. She had a religious and very conservative education and values and this don´t help... More other, here VIH and AIDS are considered as desease for marginal people. The culture of secret around it is incredible. When I go to my clinic, I always say hello to people and try to be kind, but it is clear than most of them are so shamed to be there, and if they could disappear or hide, they would probably do it... but what? This is just a decease...
About her depression, for sure, it is not for the virus, I don´t believe this a second... She had to deal with really a lots of things last 2 years... About condoms, I hope this won´t change things in our intimity, but I won´t be surprised of the contrary. For now, when we had relations, we always used them without any problem...
My HIV doc is not worried, he says I have to let her take her time (Oh South America, nothing is never urgent here....). I think the same of you, one day you can be well and a week after into hospital, and I don´t want this to happen. Anyway, I would have liked her to be tested before the end of 2011...
For me, dealing with my wife´s fears is much more, much more difficult than to deal with my own infection, and yes sometimes I feel so impotent...
I don´t worry about my node, well I try to... And sure I will show them to my doc, anyway, this means that my body is doing something against infection, this should not be a (so) bad thing...
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Val, how old is your son? Are you sure that you were infected after he was born? If you're not sure, he should be tested if your wife won't. It would be terrible if he was infected in the womb or during delivery and you don't know his status because of your wife's refusal to test.
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My son is a little more than 3. The pediatric doc says that there is really little possibilities he could be infected because of his weight, size and good health; much more hight and strong than other children at the same age, and don´t think he should be tested. That was something I was very worried about, I wanted him to be tested too but my doc prefers my wife test before. I have been thinking in testing him without saying anything to my wife, but I see it is something delicate...
Honestly, I´m not so sure I couldn´t have been infected before.... The only thing that is sure is that my wife was neg when at the first months she was pragment and that I was neg in 2005.
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Fingers crossed that the doctor is right about your son.
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You think I should make him tested, shouldn´t I?
But I understood that VIH made trouble during first or second year, wth a lower weight, illness problem and so on...
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Val, not necessarily. Just like with adults, hiv affects everyone differently and that includes babies and children. One's hiv status is never anything to guess about.
It's a shame that your wife won't test, not even for the sake of your son. Maybe if you tell her that if she won't test, you'll have no option but to test the boy, then maybe she might wake up and realise what's at stake here.
If she tests negative, then there is no reason to test your son. If she tests positive, it's imperative that the boy is tested as well. It's one thing for her to stick her head in the sand where her own health is concerned, but it's quite another when a child is involved. She has got to test!
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Thanks Ann, these are good advise, I will try to make this situation change. This cannot wait more...
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Hi Val,
Thanks for letting us know. I agree with Ann - if u tell her about your son ( I wasn't even aware of that!) , she may awake up and follow your advice. I know its gonna be hard for u to convince but look at the bright side. May be they both are negs but they will not know until they get tested. And if they are, then hopefully, she will be able to accept that and take care of herself and your son and you will be out of this tough situation. I wish u the best!
Edited to add : I am sure you would be able to convince your wife soon, just the way u convinced others to play the contact sport. If someone was nagging at my ear 24/7, I am sure I would have not waited for 7 years to take care of my hiv issues. You don't even have to nag, you have all the logic in the world for her to go out get tested. I would do what Ann said (sorry for the repeats) , take your son to the doc and get him tested. I just realized did u cheat on her while she is pregnant? Oh man! Then she will have lot more forgiveness issues to deal with. It may sound like I am judging, I am not. Hopefully, u and your wife could get over with all this soon. Good luck!
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I'm always amazed how some people say they won't take meds if they are HIV+...taking meds everyday might be a bitch but dying a slow death cause by PCP is much worse.
I had a really nasty case of PCP when I found out and I don't ever want to go through that EVER again...or put my family through that as well.
I'm hoping for a positive resolution to your problems Val and I hope that your wife comes to her senses. She HAS to test as soon as possible and, if she is poz, she has to realize that it's far from the end of the world.
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Sure, thanks Since and Rockin...
I´ll have a check in January and will go to lab at the end of the month, it might help to talk about this... Anyway, in last 6 months my wife has got much more quiet about that, last week, I found her very very great. What I try to show is that absolutely nothing in my daily life is changing... I´practice sport, work hard, have my friend, travel.... and of course take care of alimentation, deceases and rest. I´m trying to make this to her as less dramatic as it can be.
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Sure, thanks Since and Rockin...
I´ll have a check in January and will go to lab at the end of the month, it might help to talk about this... Anyway, in last 6 months my wife has got much more quiet about that, last week, I found her very very great. What I try to show is that absolutely nothing in my daily life is changing... I´practice sport, work hard, have my friend, travel.... and of course take care of alimentation, deceases and rest. I´m trying to make this to her as less dramatic as it can be.
Same here. If you don't suffer heavy side effects it doesn't have to be dramatic at all.
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Hey Val,
I understand you want your wife to wait because of her issues. What's the hold up to take your son now? You are just testing! Once you are done you would know what would be the next steps? He is kid, the sooner you would do the TESTING, the better for him. Trust me I am talking from experiences. FEAR has its price. You don't need a doc advice for HIV testing and have your son wait for another month when there is a good chance that he could be poz. I sure hope he is not. You wouldn't know until you get him tested. You need to take him for HIV testing ASAP!!!!!!!
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Hi Since.
No, I don´t want my wife to wait for her test, but I cannot pressure her if she also have other psychologic problems... Of course, I´m completely aware of the situation and about what can happen to her, but she is in a total denying situation and I don´t know how to manage it. I´m very surprise about how quiet are docs about that, they tell me to wait, no to hurry, not to pressure... I try to support her as much as I can, but I´m not sure I´m doing it right... By the way, I cannot take decision against her, this situation generate me a lot of stress and fatigue...
About my son, for his age and development, docs says it is highly improbable he could be infected and recommand me to test him only if his mother is infected.
For now, they are about 500 km from where I live, so this makes everything more difficult...
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I can not see what else you could do in the circumstances . Hopefully your wife will test and clarity will be achieved. As all the medical people concerned with your wife and son know all, they are equipped with the knowledge they need if , God for bid, either your wife or son become ill.
I wish you continued strength during this very difficult time ,
mhtv