POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: Davev33 on July 15, 2009, 10:56:16 pm
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Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and provide insight. Based on the feedback in these forums I am pretty sure what I might be told, but like many readers and participants with anxieties, I just have to ask and in return I am hoping for your honest perspective and assessments.
Short story, I visited a massage/sex parlor in Latin America looking for a nice, erotic massage with no anal, vaginal, or oral. So, after a regular massage the CSW masturbated herself for a bit, sucked on my testicles for a few seconds, and I french kissed her for maybe 3-5 seconds. I was worried the entire time about HIV and STD's (but not enough I guess) so I stayed clear of inserting anything inside her at all.
While she masturbated, if I remember correctly, she alternated hands, one holding onto the shaft of my penis and the other was used to rub herself. When she was done, she washed her hands, put oil on her hands, and then masturbated me. We actually talked about HIV when we were done and she let me know that they have to get tested for all STD's once and month and the owners are fined by the local gov if the employees test positive for anything. Also, after we were done she took a quick shower. Not that any of this matters.
Is this activity considered mutual masturbation?
Like many who worry, and with the various info off the internet concerning HIV and vaginal fluids, I am petrified. Not for me so much, but if I got infected, I am very concerned that I may infect my wife (who is nursing our baby still). I tried to be safe and thought I was safe but the the doubt seeps in and eats at me like mad. Did I just infect my family over this incident?
So, here are my main questions:
1. Was this safe sex?
2. Any risk from the 3-5 second french kiss?
3. Any risk vaginal fluids could infect me if they got into my urethra from her hand?
4. Any need to test? And if not, can I resume regular intercourse with my wife without worry?
Of course, assuming in all of this that she was even HIV +.
Thanks again for your time and patience.
Dave
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1. Was this safe sex?...Yes it was
2. Any risk from the 3-5 second french kiss?..Non whatsoever
3. Any risk vaginal fluids could infect me if they got into my urethra from her hand?..No
4. Any need to test? And if not, can I resume regular intercourse with my wife without worry?..No need to test, as far as regular intercourse where your wife is concerned would depend on if she is in the mood or not.. ;)
You have nothing to worry about regarding HIV.
Jan
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Thank you Jan.
So, would such an incident be considered, or fall into the category of mutual masturbation?
And if so, that is safe? Regardless of the ten zillion what if questions that could follow?
Reading post after post, so many people seem to have the same issues, yet for some reason each of us also thinks there is something unique about our possible or potential exposure. Logic tells me I had no risk, but emotions kill all logical thoughts and fear reigns supreme.
Thanks again for this resource and your time,
Dave
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No matter what details get thrown into the mix, masturbation, mutual and otherwise, is not a risk for HIV transmission.
That's right. Everyone thinks their experience is unique and outside of the bounds of safer sex. And most of the time they are worked up over no risk situations ...such as yours was.
Go in peace. You have no cause for further concern. Really. There's no need for testing and yes, you can resume having intercourse with your wife.
Cheers.
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Thanks much Andy.
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OK - time to close this thread with one last question. Going back to one that was not answered I guess: Was the activity under the mutual masturbation umbrella? And if she happened to be HIV+, those fluids on her hands would not change the risk level?
Thanks again and I will shut up now. ;-)
Dave
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Doesn't matter if she was positive or not. Still no risk.
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Dave,
When we give risk assessments, we assume the other person is hiv positive.
You did NOT have a risk. End of story.
Ann
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All,
Just to cap off this issue for myself and the thousands of doubters out there, and to get some clarification on another...
No reported cases of HIV infections from vaginal fluids on a hand being transferred to the urethra? Meaning, genital-to-hand-to-genital transmissions?
Although not pertaining to my current anxieties, I noticed that most of the experts on this forum say no risk for oral, yet there have been reported cases (although minimal and apparently hard to document). Is oral truly not a risk or so rare or improbable the risk becomes negligible? Just wondering.
Lastly, breastfeeding being a transmission route, are the risks the same for the child if the mother is infected after the baby is two years old (and still nursing) as when the baby is a newborn?
If no risks from the genital-to-hand-to genital episode, who do I see about the anxiety problems to rid myself of these feelings?
Thanks,
Dave
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Please ignore the question about oral. Andy just answered the question in a post just minutes ago. His answer made sense.
Dave
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Should you have any questions in the future, please follow our rule and keep them in this same thread. I've merged your latest one with the previous.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Sorry about that. I remembered that rule in the welcome message and could not fix the message once it went out.
So, there are no reported cases of HIV infections from vaginal fluids on a hand being transferred to the urethra? Meaning, genital-to-hand-to-genital transmissions?
I thought Andy's explanation of the discrepancies on the oral was very good (on another thread) and it cleared up the question I had earlier. This issue was not a worry of mine but I noticed the low risk to no risk assessments being given and just wondered.
I am working hard to move on, and I do appreciate the insight given. It is hard to do when the possibilities that I could/might have infected my wife and child (because she is nursing) - just scares the dickens out of me.
Dave
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That's right, zero cases reported of transmission in that manner.
Bud, as far as I can see your concerns while understandable are really all guilt-based and otherwise have no sound basis in HIV-science.
Take a breath, let it go and for all concerned, get on with your life. Really.
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Thanks again Andy for your time, expertise, and patience. So, here endeth the questions...
No risk to myself, thus, no risk to my wife and nursing baby?
It definitely would be guilt if I infected them, but right now I am paralyzed with fear. Of course, a creation of my own doing.
Gracias,
Dave
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NO RISK!
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I am still petrified about my potential exposure and risks to my wife and baby. Can I put this behind me with the following tests to boot:
2 weeks (Elisa) Neg
4 week (Elisa) Neg
10 1/2 weeks (Elisa) Neg
What are the odds that it would turn positive by 12 weeks after this incident?
I got a sore throat and canker sore in my mouth last night (5 days after the last test) and am worried to death. Been crying as well and want this scare to go away.
No remote chance of having HIV with this one incident?
Dave
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Dave,
Chill out already and quit the crying. You didn't have a risk for hiv infection - not even a remote chance. Your tests prove you don't have hiv. Get a grip and grow up. YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV.
If you're worried about cancre sores, see your doctor or dentist. Hiv isn't the cause because YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV!!!
If you read the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Please consider yourself warned!
Ann
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Thank you Ann.
Please understand that I was not questioning anyone's assessment, but face-to-face discussions and counseling for me is probably warranted at this point. I am a coward indeed and have been worried over what I "feel" was a risk, but no more questions about that. I just don't want to hurt my wife and child over my own actions and I believe strongly that the moderators (you, Jan, Andy, and Rapidrod) here have given me honest assessments based on years of research, experience, and involvement in HIV-related issues. The science and logic of it all tends to get trumped by the emotional overload at times.
Thank you again for your comments and for taking the time to respond.
Regarding definitions, having a CSW masturbate herself and then the client, is that "mutual masturbation?" Do you think this activity falls into that "safer sex" activity?
Doing better....slowly. :-)
Dave
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Dave,
Yes, what you describe is mutual masturbation. And YES, it is safer sex. You are NOT going to become infected through being masturbated, even if she had vaginal fluids on her hands.
This is about guilty feelings. Feelings are not facts. The fact is that you in NO WAY had a risk for hiv infection and it's time you got over it. If that means seeing a counselor, then go for it. It's the smart thing to do.
And by the way, your warning still stands. There's nothing more we can do for you here.
Ann
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Hi all,
Not that anyone cares, but due to my anxiety levels I went and had another test at 12 1/2 weeks (87 days) and it came back negative. Thanks to all who tried to help, but I think for many worriers like myself the only way through this is to test and learn from the behaviors. But having this resource to lean on has been a blessing.
Also, I came across this risk chart on the stopaids.org website and wanted to gather some opinions. Pretty accurate?
No risk for HIV transmission - Kissing, mutual masturbation, frottage, massage, water sports, bondage, dirty verbal talk and role play, spanking, wrestling, handjobs
Very low/low risk for HIV transmission - Blow jobs (receiving less risky than giving), rimming, topping with a condom, bottoming with a condom, fisting with gloves, flogging, whipping
Medium risk for HIV transmission - Topping without a condom, bottoming without a condom but having the top pull out before cumming, fisting as a top without gloves, blood play such as cutting or piercing
High risk for HIV transmission - Bottoming without a condom and taking the load, getting fisted without gloves, sharing needles or works during intravenous drug use
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Just a personal comment about all of this since I see so many postings and worries like my own. There is so much information out there about what types of activity poses a REAL risk and what does not. The moderators here, unlike any other HIV prevention/knowledge-based site, tend to operate in absolutes - which is very hard for those of us with anxiety disorders. Although we want to hear a NO RISK assessment in absolute terms, we tend to have room in our heads for lots of "what if's." But you all knew that.
Lastly, and what triggered a super amount of anxiety for me personally, was when I was combing through the hundreds of postings and came across people who were told they had NO RISK and ended up in the "I just tested poz" forum. It seems like those posters, the apparent no-risk ones, may not have been totally honest about their actual exposure. Would that be an accurate statement? But I can say for certain that seeing someone told time and time again the same thing I was told time and time again and then ending up testing positive destroyed me mentally and emotionally, as it just flooded my head with even more doubt about my own no-risk assessment.
Thanks again to Ann, Jan, Andy, and Rapidrod for dealing with folks like me and for lending a helping hand so often to so many.
Dave
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Dave,
I don't remember a single person who came here with no risk who ended up in the Just Tested forum. NOT ONE. I DO remember several who DID have risks who ended up there, but not a single solitary NO risker.
Very low/low risk for HIV transmission - Blow jobs (receiving less risky than giving), rimming, topping with a condom, bottoming with a condom, fisting with gloves, flogging, whipping
These things are not low risk, they're NO RISK.
Fisting is also NO RISK for hiv.
The "blood play" thing would only be a risk if you're cutting yourself as well and doing something stupid like rubbing your deep, bleeding cuts together. From what I understand about "blood play" in S&M circles, there would be no risk as only one person is involved in the bleeding.
I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about because I really don't think we've heard the last of you otherwise. You never had a risk to begin with and it's no surprise you tested negative.
If you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder, you need to seek help for that in the appropriate setting. These forums are far from the appropriate setting in which to deal with OCD.
Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.
Ann
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Hi all,
The person I was referring to was "Alefou" - he had been posting for well over a year or so and by reading his posts, was skirting some pretty dangerous lines. He was told that he had no risk, but it looks like he was not being totally honest with his situation. So his NO RISK assessment giving by the board members was based on him not being totally honest. He ended up being positive and moved to the other board.
Anyway, quick question (and not about me so...)
11 1/2 weeks after a risky situation - 80 days to be exact - how conclusive is a neg elisa? (Apparent activity was condom break with strip dancer) No sex activity since the 80 day incident. And no, regardless of the thoughts, not me.
Thanks and I hope all are doing well,
Dave
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Dave,
An eleven and a half week negative is not going to change.
As for Alefou, it's probable that his partner removed his condom. Whatever happened, it's none of your business anyway.
Ann
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Ann,
You are absolutely right, it was/is none of my business. I just followed his posts throughout the year and was stunned with his result. I felt horrible for him and I hope he is doing well.
Thanks for the info and best wishes,
Dave V
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Since you do not have an HIV problem, I suggest you stop trolling these pages for stories and such which will only feed your unwarranted fears and concerns about HIV.
Be grateful you don't have an HIV problem and just get on with your life.