Mary Cheney And Wife Call Out Sister Liz On Marriage Remarks

[tednlou2]

Mary Cheney got a lot of criticism for working to reelect her father and Bush, especially given the administration using gays to get bans on state ballots, so they could get out voters.  And, for proposing a federal constitutional ban.  There is no doubt they used gays, when it seemed they really didn't care about the issue and, in fact, supported marriage equality. 

Well, I guess Mary has gotten to where she won't stay silent, just to benefit a family member's political prospects.  Her sister Liz is running for Congress.  She was on FOX and said she believed in traditional marriage and that the issue should be left to states.  That caused Mary's wife to post a public response to Liz.  And, Mary reposted it on her page and added a few things. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/17/mary-cheney-liz-cheney_n_4292857.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

[mecch]

My hunch is that someone like Liz Cheney is a hypocrite and says "I believe in traditional marriage" for political expediency.  But who knows.

[Dan0]

You don't get to be raised by wolves and then suddenly leave the pack.  This entire family is just too much.  Silence for years from the younger sibling even in the face of media attention so as not to tarnish her father.  Now, in order to prove that her Washington beltway sister really IS a conservative that should continue their legacy in Wyoming - let's conjure up this sister-squabble to highlight her credentials. 

Politics at its finest!  Next, they'll be having a photo op of Thanksgiving dinner at their Wyoming homestead. Hope they remove the "just sold" sign first. 

[tednlou2]

You don't get to be raised by wolves and then suddenly leave the pack.  This entire family is just too much.  Silence for years from the younger sibling even in the face of media attention so as not to tarnish her father.  Now, in order to prove that her Washington beltway sister really IS a conservative that should continue their legacy in Wyoming - let's conjure up this sister-squabble to highlight her credentials. 

Politics at its finest!  Next, they'll be having a photo op of Thanksgiving dinner at their Wyoming homestead. Hope they remove the "just sold" sign first.

So, you take a skeptical view of this and think this is all strategy, in order to show Liz is hardcore conservative?  Hmmm...  Well, I wouldn't put anything past them.  But, even Dick Cheney, who technically has no heart, is for marriage equality.  You could be right.  For now, I will believe this is sincere. 

[Jeff G]

So, you take a skeptical view of this and think this is all strategy, in order to show Liz is hardcore conservative?  Hmmm...  Well, I wouldn't put anything past them.  But, even Dick Cheney, who technically has no heart, is for marriage equality.  You could be right.  For now, I will believe this is sincere. 

Dick Cheney was for marriage equality when he was done with politics and it could no longer hurt his carrier , so the apple doesn't fall far from he tree . This story only confirms what we all know , most politicians will say any thing to get elected and its a hoot her own family is calling her out on it .   

[Dan0]

So, you take a skeptical view of this and think this is all strategy, in order to show Liz is hardcore conservative?  Hmmm...  Well, I wouldn't put anything past them.  But, even Dick Cheney, who technically has no heart, is for marriage equality.  You could be right.  For now, I will believe this is sincere.

I think its ridiculous that she (Mary) get's to call foul about GLBT issues at anyone's expense since she spent years contributing to anti-gay conservative politicians while sitting on the sidelines waving Bush banners! Fortunately, despite her best efforts, she now gets to reap the rewards of being in a committed married relationship.  She is as reprehensible as Ken Mehlman - possibly even more-so - and should have no credibility in calling foul on any issues she fought so hard against.

The family is a typical festering political dynasty that will say anything and eat their own to get to the head of the table. It's like watching the "Munsters meets Dallas". And Dick does have a heart - we all paid for it despite his proclaimations against socialized healthcare. 

[mecch]

I think its ridiculous that she (Mary) get's to call foul about GLBT issues at anyone's expense since she spent years contributing to anti-gay conservative politicians while sitting on the sidelines waving Bush banners! Fortunately, despite her best efforts, she now gets to reap the rewards of being in a committed married relationship.  She is as reprehensible as Ken Mehlman - possibly even more-so - and should have no credibility in calling foul on any issues she fought so hard against.

The family is a typical festering political dynasty that will say anything and eat their own to get to the head of the table. It's like watching the "Munsters meets Dallas". And Dick does have a heart - we all paid for it despite his proclaimations against socialized healthcare.

I agree with this anger and assessment.

[mecch]

  For now, I will believe this is sincere.

I know there is a core of conservatives serving in government, aware of the principal of equal rights for all, somewhat troubled by their stance against total equal rights for LGBTs, but overwhelmed by their religious convictions and unfortunate inability to separate church and state.  I wouldn't guess the Cheney family to be among this core.

[Dan0]

I'm not 'angry' about the situation.  I don't think that people should get a 'pass' on their history when it impacts a segment of society nor should our memories become selective because someone happens to quiet and unassuming. Those are the dangerous ones!  I'm not saying that she's self-loathing or bigoted but (to coin her own phrase) "she's been on the wrong side of history" with her actions for some time and can't expect those actions to be simply wiped away with a Facebook post which was made in response to her partner's original post.

Bring Back Bill!

[mitch777]

I'm not 'angry' about the situation.  I don't think that people should get a 'pass' on their history when it impacts a segment of society nor should our memories become selective because someone happens to quiet and unassuming. Those are the dangerous ones!  I'm not saying that she's self-loathing or bigoted but (to coin her own phrase) "she's been on the wrong side of history" with her actions for some time and can't expect those actions to be simply wiped away with a Facebook post which was made in response to her partner's original post.

Bring Back Bill!

I don't have much if any sympathy for Mary for this^ very reason. It's all a dirty Dick master plan to get Liz elected. Doesn't appear to be working out too well at this point.

[Joe K]

I'm not 'angry' about the situation.  I don't think that people should get a 'pass' on their history when it impacts a segment of society nor should our memories become selective because someone happens to quiet and unassuming. Those are the dangerous ones!  I'm not saying that she's self-loathing or bigoted but (to coin her own phrase) "she's been on the wrong side of history" with her actions for some time and can't expect those actions to be simply wiped away with a Facebook post which was made in response to her partner's original post.

Bring Back Bill!

What I can never understand is how you can live your life is such a delusional state.  It's like the Log Cabin Republicans, they support a political and religious platform that specifically excludes them and how they can do this, without their heads exploding is beyond me.  I understand delusion, as I've lived it a closeted gay man, married to a woman because my religion and society abhorred my being gay.  I remember how painful that was and how it added a fraud component, to my very existence.

I never trust anyone who does not live by their convictions.  From experience, I know it's very easy to lie your way through life, but at some point, you have to stop lying to yourself.  For any Cheney to claim some moral superiority on any gay issue, is the epitome of being delusional.  They have all worked for years against the gay community and they should simply keep their opinions to themselves.

Try as I might, I cannot think of any political family that is more deserving of scorn and ridicule than the Cheney's.  You know: Reap what you Sow, and all that.

Joe

[bocker3]

I never trust anyone who does not live by their convictions.  From experience, I know it's very easy to lie your way through life, but at some point, you have to stop lying to yourself.  For any Cheney to claim some moral superiority on any gay issue, is the epitome of being delusional.  They have all worked for years against the gay community and they should simply keep their opinions to themselves.

Hey Joe,

I am certainly NO FAN of the Cheney's, but I have a serious question here...... 

Just like you (and many others of us here) came to "see the light" and stopped lying about ourselves, why can't that have happened to Mary Cheney? 
As hard as it was for me to come out -- in a family that had accepted my gay uncle for years -- I can't even imagine how much more difficult it must have been for Mary, with the spotlight shining down on the entire family due to her father.

Mike

[Joe K]

Hey Joe,

I am certainly NO FAN of the Cheney's, but I have a serious question here...... 

Just like you (and many others of us here) came to "see the light" and stopped lying about ourselves, why can't that have happened to Mary Cheney? 
As hard as it was for me to come out -- in a family that had accepted my gay uncle for years -- I can't even imagine how much more difficult it must have been for Mary, with the spotlight shining down on the entire family due to her father.

Mike

Hey Mike,

The difference for me, is that neither of us ever worked to limits the rights of the gay community.  I have no issue when people change their opinions, but they become suspect, when their history shows them actively working to demean the gay community.  They put it in their platform, they used it as a wedge issue, and they actively promoted intolerance for an entire group of Americans.

Had they not done that, then yes, I would applaud their change of heart and they could be just like you and me.  However, they did all those things and that tells me that their convictions are "flexible" and I mean that in the worse possible way.

Joe

[Dan0]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/17/liz-cheney-reiterates-stance-against-same-sex-marriage/?hpt=hp_t2

And if there needed to be more prosetelysizing by this group of political replicants.....enter DARTH CHANEY to sweep in and assure us all of what the Cheney Girls really meant. All the way to CNN to keep the spotlight on bright.  Next up, Cheney Sister Smack-Down on Jerry!  You can't buy this type of political advertising and when that happens you just have to manufacture it.

Can't they find a vacant toilet stall or a rent-boy to just make them 'go away'....I had my fill of all of them when they made our community the headline on the evening news for all those years.

[Joe K]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/17/liz-cheney-reiterates-stance-against-same-sex-marriage/?hpt=hp_t2

Thanks for the link, but I had to stop reading when I hit this:

"Responding to the comments, Cheney said Monday morning she treats her sister with compassion.

"I love my sister and her family and have always tried to be compassionate towards them. I believe that is the Christian way to behave," Liz Cheney told CNN anchor and Chief Washington Correspondent Jake Tapper."

How shallow can you be?  Show compassion?  Christian way to behave?  According to whom?  The whole family gives me the creeps and they continue to prove why they deserve my disdain, every time, any of them opens their mouths.

Joe

[bocker3]

Hey Mike,

The difference for me, is that neither of us ever worked to limits the rights of the gay community.  I have no issue when people change their opinions, but they become suspect, when their history shows them actively working to demean the gay community.  They put it in their platform, they used it as a wedge issue, and they actively promoted intolerance for an entire group of Americans.

Had they not done that, then yes, I would applaud their change of heart and they could be just like you and me.  However, they did all those things and that tells me that their convictions are "flexible" and I mean that in the worse possible way.

Joe

Thanks Joe -- though I wasn't talking about Dick or Liz -- just Mary.  I'm willing to cut Mary some slack simply because I know how tough the closet can be to bust through -- and how fear of discovery can cause folks to do all sorts of things that they might regret later. 
As for the other two, they are, at best, opportunists who could give 2 shits about anyone or anything beyond their own ambitions.

M

[Joe K]

Thanks Joe -- though I wasn't talking about Dick or Liz -- just Mary.  I'm willing to cut Mary some slack simply because I know how tough the closet can be to bust through -- and how fear of discovery can cause folks to do all sorts of things that they might regret later. 
As for the other two, they are, at best, opportunists who could give 2 shits about anyone or anything beyond their own ambitions.

M

Hey Mike,

Sorry, but I don't agree that Mary deserves any "slack", given her history.  As I said before, it's one thing to lie to folks, about being closeted, I get that part.  Where I diverge is that she actively worked for the oppression of the gay community and her now supporting "gay marriage" is merely self-serving as it involves her personally.  When her convictions may have made a difference, she remained silent and supported Republicans in their oppression of the gay community.

I think we are sometimes too quick to cut folks slack, when they seem to change their minds, but I always look at how you actually live your life, as opposed to how you want me to believe you live it.  In my view, none of the Cheney's have anything to add to the subject of marriage equality and I wish they would truly keep their family business private.

Joe

[bocker3]

Joe -- while I fully understand your position, I can't be that cut and dry with people.  If I am not willing to entertain the possibility that folks can "change their spots", then I really don't deserve any of the "forgiveness" I've been given from things I've done in the past.  Yes, I did not have the media shining down on my due to my family, but there is a number of things I wish I could go back and undo.  I can't -- all I can do is live my life differently now.  I know who I am and I know how I've changed.  I believe that others can do.
Not too mention that many of our, so called "friends', worked to suppress us -- hence the DOMA law, the parade of politicians who now say they are "for marriage equality" when just a year or two ago, that was a "step too far".  We've accepted their "evolving views", I believe.

At any rate -- my intent is not to change your mind, I understand your POV and I respect you as always -- just explaining where I am coming from on this.

Mike

[Jeff G]

This very suspicious and it may be a conspiracy because up till now all the gay people I know that go by the name Mary have been guys .

[tednlou2]

I think its ridiculous that she (Mary) get's to call foul about GLBT issues at anyone's expense since she spent years contributing to anti-gay conservative politicians while sitting on the sidelines waving Bush banners! Fortunately, despite her best efforts, she now gets to reap the rewards of being in a committed married relationship.  She is as reprehensible as Ken Mehlman - possibly even more-so - and should have no credibility in calling foul on any issues she fought so hard against.

The family is a typical festering political dynasty that will say anything and eat their own to get to the head of the table. It's like watching the "Munsters meets Dallas". And Dick does have a heart - we all paid for it despite his proclaimations against socialized healthcare.

I do think this is a good and fair assessment.  She was not in the closet when the White House was using gays for political purposes and pushed state repubs to put bans on their ballots, in an attempt to get out more evangelical voters.  So, it is hard to say she was closeted and behaved in a way to try and run from here sexuality.  I mean, she already worked for a beer company as their gay liason.  She made her living on gays then and also when she worked on their campaign. 

I think it would have been understandable to many, if she wished her dad the best, but stayed out of the campaign.  I am sure she would say the campaign was about much more than gay issues, so she was working to reelect who she saw as the best people to lead the country on things like terrorism and the economy-- although we know that wasn't true, but I'm sure she saw it that way.  But, by being part of the campaign, then she was actively endorsing their anti-gay policies.  Those policies hurt so many people-- not only by banning marriage equality, but it was also a psychological/emotional hit. 

Dick was very powerful and I don't buy he couldn't do anything to change or lead policy.  At the very least, he could have told Rove to knock off the gay bashing and to not push the state bans.  If I were his child, I would question how he had so much pull in every other issue, but just couldn't do anything on this.

Mary should do an interview and discuss her role in the Bush/Cheney campaign.  Now that she has made this issue public, then she should answer questions about her role in anti-gay policies.  I would like to hear how see explains her role in the campaign and answer how she somehow separated how the campaign she was working for was activity working to discriminate against her and other gay Americans.  I've read Mary did struggle with it and contemplated leaving the campaign.  Obviously, she stayed. 

 

[bocker3]

I do think this is a good and fair assessment.  She was not in the closet when the White House was using gays for political purposes and pushed state repubs to put bans on their ballots, in an attempt to get out more evangelical voters.  So, it is hard to say she was closeted and behaved in a way to try and run from here sexuality.  I mean, she already worked for a beer company as their gay liason.  She made her living on gays then and also when she worked on their campaign. 

I think it would have been understandable to many, if she wished her dad the best, but stayed out of the campaign.  I am sure she would say the campaign was about much more than gay issues, so she was working to reelect who she saw as the best people to lead the country on things like terrorism and the economy-- although we know that wasn't true, but I'm sure she saw it that way.  But, by being part of the campaign, then she was actively endorsing their anti-gay policies.  Those policies hurt so many people-- not only by banning marriage equality, but it was also a psychological/emotional hit. 

Dick was very powerful and I don't buy he couldn't do anything to change or lead policy.  At the very least, he could have told Rove to knock off the gay bashing and to not push the state bans.  If I were his child, I would question how he had so much pull in every other issue, but just couldn't do anything on this.

Mary should do an interview and discuss her role in the Bush/Cheney campaign.  Now that she has made this issue public, then she should answer questions about her role in anti-gay policies.  I would like to hear how see explains her role in the campaign and answer how she somehow separated how the campaign she was working for was activity working to discriminate against her and other gay Americans.  I've read Mary did struggle with it and contemplated leaving the campaign.  Obviously, she stayed. 

 

Did you vote for Clinton and Obama (in '08)?  does that mean you supported their stance on gay marriage at that time??
What I'm reading here seems to be an inability to separate Mary from Dick.

Could Mary have been vocal -- sure.  Does that mean that she now can't speak up against her sister, not to me.  Why the change?  I have no idea -- but it is a change!!  She's not towing the family line to help her sister get elected -- I'm not buying this conspiracy about her helping her sister seem "proper" for the far-right vote.

Look - -my own step-mother was against same-sex marriage -- even though she loved me and loved Sid (maybe even more than me).  It pissed me off and I told her so, but I still supported her as a family member.  She passed away 3 years ago, this week and never changed her stance.  Maybe that is why I can understand Mary supporting her father's campaign.  I know I don't vote on a single issue -- if I only supported candidates who were for full equality of gays, I'd have not voted most of life.

Anyway -- I honestly had given Mary less than 2 seconds of thought prior to this thread.  I think I'll go back to that now.  she really has no power, other than the power we all have to be out and show we are just like everyone else.

Mike

[Dan0]

It's called atonement. Even Ken Mehlman realized what an incredible piece of #%€£ he was and attempted to make amends with the community that he IS a part of and at the same time vilified. It doesn't lessen the fact that he was and is a piece of #%€£...but does show that there may be some sliver of hope for him.

I'm not seeing that in Miss Mary...or the rest of her coven. What she represents is validation to all the bad choices parents have made with their gay children, treating them as less than what they expect, and those same kids feeling as if they are of lesser value. Maybe my 'opinion' comes from me being one of those young adults and seeing this all play out on the six o'clock news every night. What she did - as an out child of a politician matters. She can't stand up now and put on her rainbow pin as if it doesn't matter.

[tednlou2]

Did you vote for Clinton and Obama (in '08)?  does that mean you supported their stance on gay marriage at that time??
What I'm reading here seems to be an inability to separate Mary from Dick.

Could Mary have been vocal -- sure.  Does that mean that she now can't speak up against her sister, not to me.  Why the change?  I have no idea -- but it is a change!!  She's not towing the family line to help her sister get elected -- I'm not buying this conspiracy about her helping her sister seem "proper" for the far-right vote.

Look - -my own step-mother was against same-sex marriage -- even though she loved me and loved Sid (maybe even more than me).  It pissed me off and I told her so, but I still supported her as a family member.  She passed away 3 years ago, this week and never changed her stance.  Maybe that is why I can understand Mary supporting her father's campaign.  I know I don't vote on a single issue -- if I only supported candidates who were for full equality of gays, I'd have not voted most of life.

Anyway -- I honestly had given Mary less than 2 seconds of thought prior to this thread.  I think I'll go back to that now.  she really has no power, other than the power we all have to be out and show we are just like everyone else.

Mike

There is no doubt Obama and the Clinton's have been very political on this issue.  Dick actually beat Obama to supporting state marriage equality by 8 years.  When the president said he supported marriage equality, he qualified that by saying left to the states.  As a constitutional lawyer, he did not say it was guaranteed by the constitution under the equal protection clause. 

President Obama was never actively trying to take rights away.  He has done so much for gay Americans.  I mean, just being included in the Inauguration speech was huge, not to mention ending DADT, not fighting DOMA, and ordering federal agencies to recognize same-sex marriages.  He also came out in support of marriage equality (albeit state level) before the 2012 election.  That could have backfired with some voters, especially his religious black base.  Some do believe Biden's "fuck up" was really a political strategy to test the waters, though.

Clinton did sign DOMA.  That was very political and done to get votes, when he didn't need them.  He was far ahead in the polls over Dole.  That chain-smoking-sounding sleaze-ball, Dick Morris, convinced him to do it.  So, I do put Bill in the same camp as Bush/Cheney.  I like Bill for many reasons, but he would sell anyone down the river for political reasons.  Bill took away something for political purposes.  Well, he took away the possibility of benefits, which could only be restored by Congress or SCOTUS.  I don't see Bill or Hillary as great leaders on equality.  When Hillary was asked, during the 2008 campaign, to comment on a general saying gays were an abomination, she answered she would leave that for Americans to decide.  She would not answer the question, by saying she disagreed with those comments as they were hateful and divisive.

So, I am willing to give Mary the benefit of the doubt that she's changed, and that she would no longer support a candidate who would vote to take rights away-- even family or friends running or in office.  Now that she's made this public, I would just like to hear how things have changed for her.  If she said the Bush/Cheney administration was wrong, then I would say she's changed and sees how they hurt so many.  Until now, I have just read she was conflicted (not sure thats even true) about working on the campaign, but have not heard her say they were on the wrong side of history.  If she is going to call out her sister, then she needs to call out dad's administration. 

[Dan0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjP6Ta6Jfw&sns=em

Leave it to Dan Savage to wrap it all up with a bow! I love his lack of any filter when he speaks!!

[mitch777]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjP6Ta6Jfw&sns=em

Leave it to Dan Savage to wrap it all up with a bow! I love his lack of any filter when he speaks!!

Love him. Tells it like it is.

[Dan0]

And....we seem to have atonement! Maybe sometimes - not often - but sometimes they really CAN change. I won't hold my breath for a Hillary 2016 bumper sticker but this a start and it's about time.

http://www.towleroad.com/2013/11/mary-cheney-hosting-fundraiser-to-fight-proposed-indiana-ban-on-gay-marriage.html