Aids vs. HIV

[LiveWithIt]

I was once told that once you have Aids you will always be classified as having Aids.  Is this still true?  Or if your viral load is at or near Zero are you just HIV positive?

[RapidRod]

Once you are classified as having AIDS you'll always be classified as having AIDS in the state and national data base.

[LiveWithIt]

Once you are classified as having AIDS you'll always be classified as having AIDS in the state and national data base.

I will have to ask my doctor to see what they say.

[Matty the Damned]

"AIDS" is just a clinical label and really not something for folks to lose their shit over. I appreciate that it's a laden term but y'know . . .

MtD

[LiveWithIt]

"AIDS" is just a clinical label and really not something for folks to lose their shit over. I appreciate that it's a laden term but y'know . . .

MtD

You are still a delicate wordsmith. 

[Matty the Damned]

You are still a delicate wordsmith. 

Fuckin' oath!

MtD

[LiveWithIt]

Fuckin' oath!

MtD

Your anger can't be good for your health.

[Matty the Damned]

Your anger can't be good for your health.

Au contraire! It's what keeps me going. Well that and vodka.

MtD

[Ravhyn]

I honestly dont see much of a difference between the two except that at least from what I understand once you get aids its a little harder to build and maintain your immune system up and until you get your immune system back up your suspectible to OI's.

I talked to my doc about it yesterday when she said my numbers we're 152.  and she said not to worry its just classification and I can still say "hey I have HIV and here's my CD4 number" 

But I think the meds are really good these days and even with Aids we can live a long time as long as we stick to the pills =)

[mecch]

From the perspective of an HIV+ person, and American citizen, where health care is anything but a sure thing, and living wages are hard to come by - i suggest you milk the term "AIDS" for anyway the label will help you to fight and stay healthy with a normal life.  For those closest to you, you can educate them about the difference and the current situation of people living with HIV.

[Miss Philicia]

I honestly dont see much of a difference between the two except that at least from what I understand once you get aids its a little harder to build and maintain your immune system up and until you get your immune system back up your suspectible to OI's.

I think for most people it's a psychological thing that they have trouble getting past.  Frankly it's never made much sense to me, but this question surprisingly surfaces here about every other month.  I don't see what the big deal is that some government bureaucracy continues to classify your diagnosis one way or the other. They just use it as a statistic.

[LiveWithIt]

I think for most people it's a psychological thing that they have trouble getting past.  Frankly it's never made much sense to me, but this question surprisingly surfaces here about every other month.  I don't see what the big deal is that some government bureaucracy continues to classify your diagnosis one way or the other. They just use it as a statistic.

It may be a good thing.  Having "Aids" might help you get assistance with meds, etc.  It's much harder to say I have Aids, than I am HIV positive.   There is a difference.  Some people are HIV positive and have never had "Aids".

[Hellraiser]

I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

[LiveWithIt]

I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

This is the first answer I found:

What is HIV (human immunodeficiency virus)? HIV simply means that you have tested positive for the virus. It does not become AIDS usually for ten years or until immune system problems appear.

The word is less used now that there are treatments and HIV is controllable like Diabetes, but less damaging.  (as far as we know)

[Miss Philicia]

It may be a good thing.  Having "Aids" might help you get assistance with meds, etc.  It's much harder to say I have Aids, than I am HIV positive.   There is a difference.  Some people are HIV positive and have never had "Aids".

Nobody forces you to "say" it -- like I said, it's just for statistical purposes I've found.

[leatherman]

It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

or if you first present tomorrow for the first time at the ER with PCP, cd4 count of 10, and viral load of 680,000

today someone will find out that not only have they been HIV positive for some time ; but that it has progressed to the AIDS stage and demands immediate treatment

[Poz Brit]

in my part of the UK, your HIV, what ever, unless your a bit of a drama queen, and need to make a point, or an impression?

[LiveWithIt]

in my part of the UK, your HIV, what ever, unless your a bit of a drama queen, and need to make a point, or an impression?

I'm so glad that it's not only Americans who can't write "you're" correctly. 

[leatherman]

I'm so glad that it's not only Americans who can't write "you're" correctly. 

There's a FaceBook page for that 
Become a fan of "Knowing the Difference Between "Their", "There" and "They're""

[Boo Radley]

I can't remember and am far too lazy to check but...

I thought a CD4 count below 200 was used only in the USA to "define" AIDS and most other countries define AIDS by OIs and other indicators of severe immune suppression.   It's a minor distinction to me since a CD4 < 200 mandates HAART regardless of other factors.   In the USA I have AIDS only because of my low CD4 cell counts past and present.  I have yet to experience a definitive OI.  In Canada I might not have AIDS but I'd be on HAART still. 

"HIV disease" is what I've been using since the 90s but many people still don't understand HIV starts its attack almost immediately after infection.   "AIDS" seems to register more fully so I often use the term to be brief but as far as I'm concerned I don't have AIDS, not what killed most of my friends and acquaintances over the last 25+ years.   

[tednlou2]

I was told I would always be considered to have AIDS--even though my numbers bounced back.  Here in KY with an AIDS diagnosis, you're required to sign up for disability to get ADAP.  You don't have to actually get it.  You just have to show you signed up.  I suppose if you have a job with benefits and just need a little assistance from ADAP, they may not make ya do that.

For me, that AIDS diagnosis hangs over my head.  Even though I know it doesn't really matter, it sometimes comes up when seeing docs and dentists.  They sometimes ask whether you've ever been diagnosed with AIDS.  I have to say yes. 

[phildinftlaudy]

my understanding of it is this if your cd4's drop below 200 and u have an OI and are classified as having AIDS then even if they bounce back up to 1000 and u no longer have an OI you are still classified as having AIDS because this makes it easier to get back on to Soc Sec Disabiility for those who may have been on it, then have a rebound and go off it and back to work, then get sick again --- a person doesn't have to go all the way back thru the process ---- at least that is my understanding of it from what a case manager told me and my ex a while back

[Etay1207]

I thought a CD4 count below 200 was used only in the USA to "define" AIDS and most other countries define AIDS by OIs and other indicators of severe immune suppression... not what killed most of my friends and acquaintances over the last 25+ years.   

Boo Radley, I read the same thing.  The US is the only country that uses CD4 count to define AIDS.  I have two friends who are having a really tough time right now because of AIDS.  One, sad to say, is on his way out and the other is dealing with infection after infection and infection on top of infections.  As I was sitting in the hospital visiting one of them he was telling me that he was happy to not have AIDS by definition. His tcells have never been below the 500 range and his pnemonia is not PCP.  But yet he was in the hospital with pnemonia 3 times in the past 5 months! That is one thing about AIDS that is confusing to me.  Isn't AIDS a breakdown of the immune system? It is clear that his immune system is not functioning properly regardless of his normal tcell count.  Nobody can deny that he has AIDS.  People put me in the same boat as him because my tcells are low.  But the fact remains, I don't have pnemonia and my body is MUCH stronger than his for he is frail from being so sick.  I don't know what to make of this. 

[Miss Philicia]

HIV- people can have recurrent pneumonia (non-PCP).  Your error is in attempting to connect every illness with HIV infection.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.  The bottom line is that 500 cd4 doesn't prevent anyone from getting non-PCP pneumonia or other respiratory infections like bronchitis.

[RapidRod]

non-PCP pneumonias

Aspiration Pneumonia
Bacterial Pneumonia
Chlamydial Pneumonia
Drug-Resistant Pneumonia
Eosinophilic Pneumonia
Fungal Pneumonia
Mycoplasma Pneumonia
Pneumococcal Pneumonia
Streptococcal Pneumonia
Viral Pneumonia

[Moffie65]

Boys and Girls;

This one comes up about every other month, as has been stated.

HIV= Human Immunodifency Virus.  Or, you get this when infected.

AIDS= (If you have HIV, please learn that these are both acronyms so they are capitalized)  CD4 cells have dropped below 200, by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control.  Other countries also use the 200 CD4 for clarity, but also add, as is true here also, any AIDS defining illness, such as PCP, MAC, or any other of the many Opportunistic Infections.

Pretty simple.  Confusion lies with the various things that are keyed by AIDS, such as Doctors who need to know the score, and also in many countries it triggers the possibility of financial and drug assistance, of various forms.  

Not so much in the United States any more, since the Social Security Administration has fully accepted the bullshit that HIV/AIDS is simply a chronic condition and no longer a fatal disease.  Funny how politics, drug companies, and ignorant governing bodies seem to be able to re-define science to make their own agendas more important than the people who are living with this disease.

[Poz Brit]

Moffie, you are so correct, as usual. I think, here in the UK, they wish to lessen the severity of AIDS and try to call it HIV, they tell you it's no worse that diabetes, but they don't tell diabetics, it no worse than HIV.

 

[Rev. Moon]

they tell you it's no worse that diabetes, but they don't tell diabetics, it no worse than HIV.

 

I've always found that line of thinking to be some ludicrous Pollyanna BS. You are so right: it is interesting how the inverse does not apply. 

[Trace67]

Yes-from a clinical perspective within the United States; once your CD4 count is less than 200 you are clinically categorized as having AIDS. This diagnosis never changes. In 2004 I was diagnosed with AIDS with a CD4 of 132 and a viral load of over 100,000 copies. Even if your CD4 count hopefully fluctuates, you are still diagnosed with AIDS!

[Etay1207]

I have family members and friends with diabetes and to be honest, I'd rather have AIDS. My quality of life is better than theirs.

[Jeff G]

Etay . I have both Aids and diabetes . For the most part I can control my diabetes with diet and exercise . That doesn't work well for Aids my friend .  

It would be better if you say what you really think about aids and cut out this passive aggressive crap .   

[Moffie65]

I watched my Mother die from the side effects of Diebetes Etay, and on one thing, I do agree with you.  Her death was NOT something I would choose to do either.  

HOWEVER, that being said, you are NOT healthy under any definition of the word, when taking into account your numbers.  You know Etay, ignorance is usually bliss, however you my friend, are not ignorant, nor are you blissful, or you wouldn't spend your precious time here on this forum trying to persuade us that you are denying the reality of HIV/AIDS.  What is your reality is denial, and denial of the most dangerous sort.  

You know Etay, you stated in another thread that you had legitimate questions about HIV/AIDS, yet you felt uneasy in asking them here.  I would say that everytime you ask a question, you do so with a defined agenda, and that agenda keeps you from hearing or reading what people are trying to say to you.  If you really want to know, and you really want to admit you are in need of true knowledge that you will truly act on; then maybe we would be more inclined to really help you out, however, you have blocked that on all fronts.

Wake up buddy, you are walking a very dark pathway by refusing to take medications for your HIV/AIDS.

[Boo Radley]

... That is one thing about AIDS that is confusing to me.  Isn't AIDS a breakdown of the immune system? It is clear that his immune system is not functioning properly regardless of his normal tcell count.  Nobody can deny that he has AIDS.  People put me in the same boat as him because my tcells are low.  But the fact remains, I don't have pnemonia and my body is MUCH stronger than his for he is frail from being so sick.  I don't know what to make of this. 

Your friend doesn't have AIDS in the USA (and several other developed countries) if his CD4 count is over 200 and >14% of lymphocyte count and he/she's never had an OI.  We can all have other infections and diseases regardless of HIV status.  I don't know your friends but each of us is unique (as are our infections very soon after we become infected) and I've been really fucking lucky.  That's what I meant by the reference to many others who are no longer here.

Etay, I believe it's presumptuous to lecture you about the dire risk you're in.  For all I know you'll live to be 125.  Or you may develop PCP and die in a few weeks.   Please practice safer sex.  Please don't procreate.  It's not fair to allow a child to die because of parental hubris & ignorance, as the late AIDS denialist Christine Maggiore did with her 3 year old daughter.  Otherwise live as you desire and good luck.

[decayingsinner]

I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

Fortunately.  It really is more of a clinical term I think when it comes to viral load and cd4 count.  It's always refreshing to read how far we have come and to know it's not something that means death within a couple of years.

[Nestor]

I've always found that line of thinking to be some ludicrous Pollyanna BS. You are so right: it is interesting how the inverse does not apply. 

It may be, but it is very well meant.  The fact is that many people's lives are either ruined or very dramatically darkened by AIDS hysteria.  Look at the article about the people in China who are sure that they are gravely ill and have gotten tested again and again despite always coming back negative.  In another country I was reading about a xenophobic "get the foreigners out" sort of campaign, and one of the main things they were accusing foreigners of was "spreading AIDS".  Even here in the New York, I've had an apparently sophisticated and sane gay man become hysterical when I told him that I had HIV.  If spreading the idea that "it's no worse than diabetes" can combat this kind of thing, then by all means bring it on.

In a wierd way diabetes suffers from the opposite extreme.  For whatever reason, I think a lot of people may underestimate its severity. 

I have two friends who are having a really tough time right now because of AIDS.  One, sad to say, is on his way out...

Etay, I'm sorry to hear you say this about a friend!  I hope it isn't so!  What exactly does he have? 

and the other is dealing with infection after infection and infection on top of infections.  As I was sitting in the hospital visiting one of them he was telling me that he was happy to not have AIDS by definition. His tcells have never been below the 500 range and his pnemonia is not PCP.  But yet he was in the hospital with pnemonia 3 times in the past 5 months!

Is either one of these friends of yours taking meds? 

[Rev. Moon]

It may be, but it is very well meant.  The fact is that many people's lives are either ruined or very dramatically darkened by AIDS hysteria.  Look at the article about the people in China who are sure that they are gravely ill and have gotten tested again and again despite always coming back negative.  In another country I was reading about a xenophobic "get the foreigners out" sort of campaign, and one of the main things they were accusing foreigners of was "spreading AIDS".  Even here in the New York, I've had an apparently sophisticated and sane gay man become hysterical when I told him that I had HIV.  If spreading the idea that "it's no worse than diabetes" can combat this kind of thing, then by all means bring it on.

In my opinion it is a lose-lose situation, Nestor. 

When people relax too much about HIV then it becomes necessary to create a thread like the one that Tim had to open [outlining some of more scary and serious things that this bug, if untreated, can bring about].   When I hear from some people that AIDS is no longer a problem 'cause you can just "pop a pill and things are peachy" it really makes my blood boil (especially since I have heard this from some young, naive, self-deluded gay fellas who are probably getting exposed to it).

On the other hand, when ignorance around the virus still makes some folks (usually those in a lower risk group) to believe that you can still catch HIV from a doorknob or a massage, or that there are evil HIVers out there "infecting innocent people on purpose" then you realise that we are still in the dark ages when it comes to education around this subject.

Not sure where the answer can be found.  I still believe that a somewhat grim picture needs to be painted around this virus, not particularly around life-span or the difficulties of treatment (we know well things are way better than just a decade ago), but around prevention and around avoidance of treatment.

Just me twopence.

[Etay1207]

Nestor, the one who is dying has been on meds for several years. The one with the constant infections is not on meds. His numbers remained "good". Tcells 500-600 VL <1000. He is a hemophiliac though and takes factor 8.

[RapidRod]

Nestor, the one who is dying has been on meds for several years. The one with the constant infections is not on meds. His numbers remained "good". Tcells 500-600 VL <1000. He is a hemophiliac though and takes factor 8.

I was a LTNP for 21 years my numbers crashed and ended up in the hospital for over a month and my CD4s was 1400 and my VL never got over 4500 in those 21 years. On admission to the hospital my CD4s were 52 5% VL was around 10,000. AIDS diagnosis with an OI.

[Dachshund]

I'm so old school, I still say I have GRID.

[Nestor]

I was a LTNP for 21 years my numbers crashed and ended up in the hospital for over a month and my CD4s was 1400 and my VL never got over 4500 in those 21 years. On admission to the hospital my CD4s were 52 5% VL was around 10,000. AIDS diagnosis with an OI.

That's terrible!  Do you mean that 1400 was your last CD4 count before the crash?  If so, how much time passed between it and the 52?  Or was that the average over the 21 years? 

Someone else I've met online had a similar case: an OI despite a tiny VL.  I'm really confused by that.

[RapidRod]

That's terrible!  Do you mean that 1400 was your last CD4 count before the crash?  If so, how much time passed between it and the 52?  Or was that the average over the 21 years? 

Someone else I've met online had a similar case: an OI despite a tiny VL.  I'm really confused by that.

3 months inbetween labs.

[Etay1207]

RapidRod, you lost 1350 tcells in 3 months! What OI did you have?  I probably read ur story in another post but don't remember it.

[RapidRod]

RapidRod, you lost 1350 tcells in 3 months! What OI did you have?  I probably read ur story in another post but don't remember it.

Disseminated Histoplasmosis and I still have it.

[Etay1207]

I'm assuming you are on meds now. What combo are you on and what r ur numbers now? Will you've in Vegas in Aug?

[RapidRod]

I'm assuming you are on meds now. What combo are you on and what r ur numbers now? Will you've in Vegas in Aug?

HIV meds.- Atripla cd4 225 7% vl undetectable. Recently DX from Bactrum. Not sure if I will be in Vegas or not. I work pt in a morgue and for a funeral home and it depends on others vacations. Histo Meds are 400 mg Itraconazole daily will know next week if I have to fight the insurance to go back on Noxafil.

[Etay1207]

My doctor prescribed bactrim to me because my tcells are so low. Were you taking anything when you got sick? What does DX mean?

[RapidRod]

My doctor prescribed bactrim to me because my tcells are so low. Were you taking anything when you got sick? What does DX mean?

DX=discontinued "after being on it for five years." No I wasn't on meds because CD4s were within the normal range. Bactrim helps prevent PCP but you not being on meds puts you in danger or a host of other OI's. Etay you really should think about starting meds. If you have money concerns your ASO or your ID clinic counselor can help with that. You don’t want an OI of any kind and I urge you to start treatment.

[Etay1207]

Thanks for sharing your story with me.

[David_CA]

My CD4's were in the upper 200's when I had PCP and thrush.  I was told that I had AIDS then.  My understanding is that it indicates an immune system that does not function enough on its own to prevent OI's.  Personally, I don't mind saying I have AIDS except to family and potential sex partners, although I'm sure that wouldn't bother many guys. 

[Hellraiser]

Really?  I know enough guys that would zip up and run home with their tail between their legs if you disclosed that it makes me not want to say.  Not that Hellraiser has been getting any lately.  Why is he speaking of himself in the third person?  I have no idea.