Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 19, 2024, 07:46:05 am

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 772787
  • Total Topics: 66296
  • Online Today: 290
  • Online Ever: 5484
  • (June 18, 2021, 11:15:29 pm)
Users Online
Users: 2
Guests: 234
Total: 236

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Do I Have HIV?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Are prostitutes...  (Read 18638 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Are prostitutes...
« on: December 06, 2007, 05:44:06 pm »
Are prostitutes an acceptable way to go in terms of having sex without feeling any obligation to disclose HIV status?  "Legally" one isn't entirely required to disclose in Canada provided that you use a condom and from what I understand prostitutes are adamant about using condoms for vaginal, anal and even oral sex.  I think that would leave me pretty well covered in terms of having lowered the risk of transmission.  I'm just over two years with no sex and really don't want to go even another week.  I've had mixed responses on this from friends.  Some say sure, STI's are an occupational hazard of sex trade workers and others say it's exploitative of those who are already being exploited enough.  I'm seriously fucking sick and tired of jerking off.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 06:02:38 pm »
Surely you aren't implying that prostitutes "deserve what they get".  Because you are on a slippery slope with that thinking.   If thats how you feel, then it follows  that you deserve to be HIV positive.  You dont really want to go that route do you?
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 06:10:52 pm »
Quote
Surely you aren't implying that prostitutes "deserve what they get".

Where did "I" suggest that they deserve what they get?  I said "some of my friends" felt that STI's were an occupational hazard associated with being a sex trade worker.  I didn't say anything of the sort.  If you're going to reply to a topic at least make it relevant rather than accuse people of saying things they clearly did not.

A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 06:15:47 pm »
quote you....."Are prostitutes an acceptable way to go in terms of having sex without feeling any obligation to disclose HIV status? "

Oh so what does this sound like, huh? You sure seem to be thinking that prostitutes are second class citizens and dont deserve to be treated with respect.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 06:21:01 pm »
Well, I think that in terms of prostitutes they are there to have sex in exchange for money.  Not in exchange for personality, ideas, honest and open communication, etc.  They are there to take your money so you in turn can have sex with them.  That's it.  That is what I'm saying about prostitues.  It is a business transaction wherein they are providing a service to a customer who is providing them with cash so it isn't at all the same sort of relationship with the same sort of requirements as a proper relationship.  One where you are honest and open with someone because you see a future, you share a connection of some kind, a connection based on who you are, what you do, how you live, etc.  Not how much you are willing to spend by the hour.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 06:21:40 pm »
Joel,

He's just baiting you. Ignore him.

MtD

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 06:25:12 pm »
Oh, right.
So hes just being a jerk?
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 06:29:04 pm »
I just always thought that prostitutes were there so you didn't have to go through all the same stuff you do with a regular person in whom you are interested.  I thought that was the point of the cash transaction, to buy your way out of talking about your feelings, your day, your life in general and get straight to the sex.  Then as soon as the sex is done you get dressed and leave.  Hell, you don't even need to know eachothers names since it's all about two things; money and sex. 

And I'm not being a jerk.  I'm giving my viewpoint and asking questions.  Nothing more.  If you disagree with me that doesn't make me a jerk, it makes my opinion different from yours. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 06:33:42 pm by 404error »
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 06:34:20 pm »
Oh, right.
So hes just being a jerk?


Pretty much. Check out everything else he posts. You'll note a common theme.

MtD

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 06:39:32 pm »
Well, I think that in terms of prostitutes they are there to have sex in exchange for money.  Not in exchange for personality, ideas, honest and open communication, etc.  They are there to take your money so you in turn can have sex with them.  That's it.

They are still women (and men) with health and livelihoods to protect. Fact of the matter is, you're having a sexual encounter with them and they don't deserve any less respect simply because money is changing hands.

Ask yourself this: would you disclose to a someone you met socially -- in a bar, perhaps -- and plan on nothing more than a quick roll in the hay? Even if condoms were used? If you answer yes here, I think you'd also disclose to a sex worker.

I'm sorry you're feeling so sexually frustrated. Perhaps this is something you need to work on, not simply search for a sex worker you can bone without any sense of personal moral obligation. Again, I'm not saying you should disclose (I honestly do believe this is a personal choice)... but that you should simply extend the same courtesy to the sex worker as you would to someone who doesn't trade money for sex.

Tim Horn  
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 06:41:35 pm by Tim Horn »

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 06:45:19 pm »
Hmmm, well isn't this topic interesting.....Basically, you feel that you don't have to disclose to a prostitute because of what she/he does....I am just making sure I am understanding you right,404...Now in my mind, I would think it would be easier to disclose to a prostitute. Depending on your locale, I would think, most especially in major cities, would be a little more understanding considering they have to deal with all the other STD's out there. Not to say they would agree to deal with you despite you having money. But I also don't see a prostitute giving you a list of all the stds they have had or currently has.

In the case of a prostitute, I would be more willing to tell them the truth because of the fact you are more than likely not going to see them again and the fact that they deal with a slew of other people. I am not saying you shouldn't disclose to someone in a relationship, just that (to me) it would be harder to. But in either case, you may be left with your dick in your hands....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 06:48:55 pm »
Well, I've had three near opportunities to have sex since being diagnosed.  One was with a girl at the bar but I just couldn't do it.  That was pretty early into my diagnosis and still was mind fucked about it all so in retrospect that came as no suprise.  The second was with a friend I hadn't seen in a couple years.  She texted me out of the blue for a booty call.  She came over and when we were about to do it I couldn't.  I felt like my heart was going to explode right out of my chest, she even asked if I was alright because she could hear it.  The final time was with a girl who told me in confidence before going any further that she had herpes and felt the need to tell me.  I told her that was okay and she seemed so happy with that.  The next day I told her about about being HIV positive and that was the end of that.  I just wanna have sex, that's it.  I don't even care if it's with a girlfriend or someone I love or care about, I just want to have sex again so much so that I'm even willing to pay for it and I've never had to do that before.

Quote
Basically, you feel that you don't have to disclose to a prostitute because of what she/he does

Exactly.  Because they are having sex strictly for money I feel that it our personal lives have nothing to do with it.  Hell, she could have Hep's A, B and C, syphillis, chlamydia as well as full blown AIDS.  I'm not gonna ask because that's not why I'm there.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 06:55:08 pm by 404error »
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 06:55:50 pm »
So, in other words you just don't want to waste a nut by jacking off but needs to feel some physical contact? Why don't you set your sights on trying to find a poz woman? I'm sure that has crossed your mind. You can have a relationship (or define one), bust a nut, and save your money....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline ademas

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,152
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 07:02:46 pm »
Are you talking about protected sex 404?
Personally, I don't think I'd want to have unprotected sex with a sex worker who didn't insist on taking every precaution.

(edited to add that I wholeheartedly agree with what Tim wrote above.)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 07:07:06 pm by ademas »

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2007, 07:06:33 pm »
Of course I'm talking protected sex.  I'm not gonna go unwrapped with some hooker.  Hell, since I'm poz I'll probably never have unprotected sex again in my life.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2007, 07:26:51 pm »
I was assuming he was talking about protected sex...So, if a worker told you that she had hep A,B,C or whatever, you'd still be willing to have sex with her? And even if she didn't tell you, what if the condom broke or slipped off in her? I dunno, I guess I am just rambling now but you still didn't answer my last post....Just saying...
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2007, 07:36:04 pm »
Quote
Why don't you set your sights on trying to find a poz woman? I'm sure that has crossed your mind. You can have a relationship (or define one), bust a nut, and save your money....

I've tried, there aren't many I've come across in this part of the country and those I have were anything but appealing.  You remember the girls I described in the other thread?  That's what I'm used to dating, I don't want to settle for less.  I'd rather be single and banging prostitutes than settling for something less than what I'm interested in.  I'd just end up resenting the girl after a while and that wouldn't be fair to either of us.

Quote
So, if a worker told you that she had hep A,B,C or whatever, you'd still be willing to have sex with her? And even if she didn't tell you, what if the condom broke or slipped off in her?

I doubt a prostitute is going tell you if she has any STD's.  She in the business of making money in exchange for sex.  Disclosing one's diseases is detrimental to posting a profit within that industry.  Like I said, I'm also not going to ask.  If the condom broke, I'd put on another one and finish up.  I wouldn't worry about it slippling off, that's never been a problem.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline wishihadacat

  • Member
  • Posts: 220
    • Therainstorm.com
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2007, 09:41:46 pm »
I was assuming he was talking about protected sex...So, if a worker told you that she had hep A,B,C or whatever, you'd still be willing to have sex with her? And even if she didn't tell you, what if the condom broke or slipped off in her? I dunno, I guess I am just rambling now but you still didn't answer my last post....Just saying...

I don't think you are rambling at all. Throughout history the underlying assumption between people engaged in transactional sex has been that neither party can be trusted to tell the truth. Its always been strictly business and when we do business, its caveat emptor, babe. The same goes for the seller. Neither the prostitute nor his/her patron has ever had the right to expect the truth. And If you disclose to a prostitute you might as well send out a press release; likewise, any hooker who says, "come on in, lover, but sorry about the bugs in there", would put herself out of business pretty quickly.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:07:44 pm by wishihadacat »
Your name here  X_______________

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2007, 10:04:18 pm »
For now I'll put aside my personal issues with thinking one should not have to pay for sex....

I would sure hate to come up with some extra H's on my medical chart. Herpes Hepatitis ect.

Offline wishihadacat

  • Member
  • Posts: 220
    • Therainstorm.com
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2007, 10:09:01 pm »
I would sure hate to come up with some extra H's on my medical chart. Herpes Hepatitis ect.

Exactly! It scares the heck out of me.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:31:44 pm by wishihadacat »
Your name here  X_______________

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 34,126
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2007, 10:35:03 pm »
404, right off I see you getting yourself into difficulties here with some of your terminology, specifically "prostitute" and "hooker." Those are words which are outdated these days. "Sex worker" is the term commonly used nowadays because it identifies someone without the pejorative tone which those older nouns have attached to them.

This is not mere semantics. Yes, the client and the sex worker have a business arrangment. Just like other for hire arrangements. You do this work and you get this pay for it.

Contrary to your description, because of the physically intimate nature of the transaction I don't see the relationship being quite as cut and dried as you have described. Nor do I agree that it does not have certain elements that are present in "civilian" relationships.

So I would caution you and suggest you re-consider your attitude as expressed in what you've written.

Ultimately I see it requiring the same degree of respect on your part which hopefully you would express in any relationship.

                                                             ...........

Lastly I want to say there is an inflammatory potential built into this thread so I am requesting respondents not rise to that particular bait.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:40:39 pm by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2007, 11:41:04 pm »
I don't think you are rambling at all. Throughout history the underlying assumption between people engaged in transactional sex has been that neither party can be trusted to tell the truth. Its always been strictly business and when we do business, its caveat emptor, babe. The same goes for the seller. Neither the prostitute nor his/her patron has ever had the right to expect the truth. And If you disclose to a prostitute you might as well send out a press release; likewise, any hooker who says, "come on in, lover, but sorry about the bugs in there", would put herself out of business pretty quickly.

You got a point.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline emeraldize

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,397
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2007, 01:16:55 am »
Hello Error

Throughout this thread, you've offered a considerable amount of conjecture about sex workers. I'd like to suggest something. Go shopping and interview a couple.

Buy her a meal or buy an appetizer blow job for yourself. Ask a bunch of questions. Affirm or negate the accuracy of your conjecture. Ain't nothin' like gatherin' empirical data. Go jump in the pool. Splash around. Go ahead.

In the process, you might find someone for whom you'll become a regular. Maybe you could pick a really pretty one (you know, some even have college degrees) who's as close to the first class babes to whom you were accustomed. Kinda like Burger King where you can have it Your Way.

It's also possible you might learn that most sex workers suffered one or more forms of abuse in their lifetime. Addictions are commonplace. The risks are high. Quite often they're a serial murderer's top choice because they're so, well, disposable.

I don't recall any little girl I ever met in grade school, nor woman I met at any other time in my life saying they had their cap set to become a sex worker. It was more often teacher, nurse, wife, mother, biologist, doctor, lawyer, business owner.
 

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2007, 04:03:49 am »
Quote
404, right off I see you getting yourself into difficulties here with some of your terminology, specifically "prostitute" and "hooker." Those are words which are outdated these days. "Sex worker" is the term commonly used nowadays because it identifies someone without the pejorative tone which those older nouns have attached to them.  This is not mere semantics. Yes, the client and the sex worker have a business arrangment. Just like other for hire arrangements. You do this work and you get this pay for it.  Contrary to your description, because of the physically intimate nature of the transaction I don't see the relationship being quite as cut and dried as you have described. Nor do I agree that it does not have certain elements that are present in "civilian" relationships.  So I would caution you and suggest you re-consider your attitude as expressed in what you've written.  Ultimately I see it requiring the same degree of respect on your part which hopefully you would express in any relationship.

Regarding my terminology, I see where you're coming from, a "politically correct" update to age old terms for the worlds oldest profession.  I honestly think it makes no difference and don't see either word I used as derogatory, especially when compared to some other, much harsher terms which I steered well clear of.  It's like calling a telemarketer a "Client Interactions Specialist."  Sure it sounds better and makes the person doing that job feel a bit better about themselves because they have what they consider to be a more dignified job title but at the end of the day, they're still a telemarketer.  I also can't see how you feel sleeping with a "sex trade worker" is an intimate experience.  Intimacy isn't about fucking (because let's be honest, you're not making love in this situation.)  There's no emotional connection here, from what I understand there is no kissing involved and it isn't a physical expression of the love that two people share.  I sort of agree that the girl in question would be deserving of respect.  I wouldn't verbally belittle her or physically or psychologically hurt her but I also wouldn't treat her with the same degree respect as a woman I was in a loving, monogamous relationship with.  Imagine saying to your husband, wife or life partner "I treat you with the very same respect I treat all people I pay to have sex with me."  Respect is earned, not given.  If you would pay the same degree of respect to someone in that situation then that's your call and you're entirely free to do so.

Quote
Buy her a meal or buy an appetizer blow job for yourself. Ask a bunch of questions. Affirm or negate the accuracy of your conjecture. Ain't nothin' like gatherin' empirical data. Go jump in the pool. Splash around. Go ahead.  In the process, you might find someone for whom you'll become a regular. Maybe you could pick a really pretty one (you know, some even have college degrees) who's as close to the first class babes to whom you were accustomed. Kinda like Burger King where you can have it Your Way.

First of all if I'm going to take a girl out to dinner why wouldn't I just take a girl who doesn't perform sex acts in exchange for money if the object of this interaction was casual conversation? Hell I have friends I can do that with.  Also I'm not interested in exploring the sociological aspects of the sex trade industry.  Who had what kind of upbringing, who does or does not engage in recreational or habitual drug use, who finished grade 10 or who is currently two semesters away from completing a masters thesis, how have these experiences shaped them into who they are today, what sort of psychological impact has this had on them (both leading up to their entry into this profession as well as since they have been in the field.)  I just want sex and since I have no real relationship prospects on the horizon I just want to get it on and get out.  I've never been this hard up for sex before but this is honestly how I feel.  If I had a potential girl, someone I was interested in and knew was interested in me I'd be really happy about that and wouldn't even entertain the thought of paying for sex.

Quote
It's also possible you might learn that most sex workers suffered one or more forms of abuse in their lifetime. Addictions are commonplace. The risks are high. Quite often they're a serial murderer's top choice because they're so, well, disposable.

You're absolutely right.  There is a well publicized trial going on here at the present.  One Robert William Picton is on trial for the murder of six missing downtown eastside sex workers.  He is accused of killing over 20 more, grinding them up and feeding them to the pigs on his pig farm.  There has even been some speculation that they were making snuff films on the farm as well.  It is sick and he is a disgusting human being.  The missing girls were all severly addicted to crack, meth or heroin, not that that in anyway excuses what he's done it just serves to illustrate their vulnerability in this situation.  Willie Picton is worthless and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 05:42:56 am by 404error »
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline vokz

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • efavirenz junkie
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2007, 04:54:14 am »
My work with an HIV charity brings me into close daily contact with sex workers  and I can assure you that very few fit the stereotypical image, all are every bit as human as the rest of us and that their clients spend time with them for a whole variety of very complex (and frequently non-sexual) reasons.

Many of them are also highly intelligent, very well educated indeed and are perfectly capable running rings around most of us in any discussion on the meaning of life, the universe and everything.

Show them exactly the same respect and consideration that you would anyone else.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 05:21:46 am by vokz »

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2007, 05:06:33 am »

Show them exactly the same respect and consideration that you would anyone else.


I whole-heartedly second that motion.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,786
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2007, 06:58:58 am »
I thoroughly agree with treating them with respect.  Just because they're in the profession they're in, it doesn't mean that they should be treated any different than anyone else you might think about boinking.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Condom and Lube Info https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/safer-sex
Please check out our lessons on PEP and PrEP. https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/pep-prep

https://www.poz.com/basics/hiv-basics/treatmentasprevention-tasp

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2007, 07:13:09 am »
Show them exactly the same respect and consideration that you would anyone else.

404error, you didn't present this post to the forum for permission. You wanted responses and feedback.
Indeed. There's your answer in a nice neat sentence that speaks clearly.
Mike M

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2007, 07:17:43 am »
Now that you have gotten some pretty sound advice, 404, what are you going to do? I'm sure there is a sex worker out there waiting on someone just like you...Now remember, nothing beats a condom and a smile.. ;) The condom shows you care and the smile means you're satisfied..... ;D And above all else, treat her like a lady.....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline wishihadacat

  • Member
  • Posts: 220
    • Therainstorm.com
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2007, 07:23:04 am »

Subject to what I wrote previously regarding the limitations of transactional sex, I think we all agree that they are entitled to respect.
Your name here  X_______________

Offline emeraldize

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,397
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2007, 07:49:09 am »
Error's stated I sort of agree that the girl in question would be deserving of respect. . Sort of? Sort of? That doesn't engender the concept of treating a sex worker like a lady.

You missed the point of my suggestion to buy a sex worker a meal or have a taste of the trade. You've made lots of guesses as to what it's all about. I was suggesting you go out and do the research---gather empirical data. That you've posted shows uncertainty and you expressed it. And, you also missed my silly attempt to open your young eyes, as Vokz was doing, to enlighten you. You've got a hard edge. I'm sure you're hurting. You no longer want your hand, you want the warmth and sensation of the vagina of a woman.

How about this? New way to view a sex worker with respect. She's the CEO, President and Controller of VagExpress. She's also runs marketing and sales. She's the company health person in charge of condom inventory and the administrative staff in charge of timekeeping and accounting. Oh yes, she's in charge of security, too, which is sometimes a vulnerable division of the firm.  

I went back to your first post. Here's the summary of your concerns. Is it okay if I screw a sex worker and not disclose my HIV status? (this is asking permission IMO particularly with concern about legality). And, will I get any STDs? You answered your own questions, too. Overall, you were seeking affirmation from your friends, from us---sometimes a diluted form, an adult version, of seeking permission.


Are prostitutes an acceptable way to go in terms of having sex without feeling any obligation to disclose HIV status?  "Legally" one isn't entirely required to disclose in Canada provided that you use a condom and from what I understand prostitutes are adamant about using condoms for vaginal, anal and even oral sex.  I think that would leave me pretty well covered in terms of having lowered the risk of transmission.


I hope your visit to VagExpress is a good, safe experience.

Em

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,058
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2007, 08:31:40 am »
I think it was Barnum who said "there's a sucker born everyday." You my friends are being played.

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2007, 08:35:00 am »
Only thing missing in this discussion is Russian ninja blow jobs.   
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 34,126
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2007, 08:36:26 am »
From my point of view the terminology I was suggesting had nothing to do with political correctness, the latter being a term that generally makes me cringe or get pissed off since it's often used in an abusive or obstructive way.

No, I was just suggesting alternate words that are not tainted with old time prudishness and denegrating judgements about those ply the sex trade. In my experience the experiences of paid for sex are as varied as the more conventional civilian experiences. The latter often are unofficially commercial in case you haven't noticed.

Anyway whatever words are used to me the matter is behaving respectfully towards another person, no matter what the circumstances.

Which I must acknowledge I don't find easy to do when it involves certain people I really despise. I'm thinking of an encounter I had years ago with Hizzzoner Saint Rudy  at Gracie Mansion and I was just itching to tell him what a piece of fascist dreck I thought he was. I had to settle for seeing I'd made him angry which was a somewhat satisfying  consolation prize.

But I digress.  

And yes, Bear, there is a distinctly familiar whiff of familiarity in here which I noticed right off.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:38:04 am by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,058
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2007, 08:50:38 am »
Are prostitutes an acceptable way to go in terms of having sex without feeling any obligation to disclose HIV status?


What a bunch of hogwash. If you think for one second that Upallnight is the least bit concerned about the exploitation of women, or anyone else for that matter, you've not had the pleasure of reading up's enlightning prior postings. It's all there in black and white. A different screen name won't change that leopard's spots.

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,031
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2007, 09:05:44 am »
404error=UpAllNight?    Say it isn't so....Why make another name just to start a different thread.. I guess I have been hoodwinked.....bamboozled even........*goes off to roll a doobie*
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

Offline AlanBama

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,670
  • Alabama: the 'other' 3rd World Country!
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2007, 09:41:26 am »
O Lord, not another sock puppet.....
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline ronaldinho

  • Member
  • Posts: 79
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2007, 11:38:59 am »
It is my experience that if your disclose your status , you are gonna find it difficult to find a sex worker that will accept having sex with you, even wearing a condom. The very very few that will accept might even charge you some extra money to have sex.  But then, maybe in the place where you live sex workers are more openminded, i do not know.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2007, 11:41:32 am »
O Lord, not another sock puppet.....

He's not a sock-puppet, he requested a name-change. All his prior posting history is there for the reading under the new name of 404error. Just click on his name to get into his profile, then click on "show posts" - either under his name in on the left side or near the bottom of the page.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2007, 02:46:02 pm »
Quote
I sort of agree that the girl in question would be deserving of respect.

I think I poorly worded this.  I do agree that the girl in question would be deserving of respect.  The same level of respect I would show a barista, a waitress, a clerk in a clothing store, basically anyone who works directly with the public and is there doing their job. 

As for those who disagreed with me or posted negative comments directed towards me, you are entitled to your opinions as I am entitled to mine and neither of us is right or wrong.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,105
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2007, 07:23:54 pm »
404
I have some serious fantasies about what a bunch of women would do to you if we could just tie u up and then piss all over you.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,793
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2007, 09:20:53 pm »
I've always treated sex workers better than my boyfriends.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline 404error

  • Member
  • Posts: 431
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2007, 09:51:14 pm »
Quote
404 I have some serious fantasies about what a bunch of women would do to you if we could just tie u up and then piss all over you.

While I'm flattered (but mostly concerned) that you spend time fantasizing about someone you don't know, haven't seen or have never met, you'll be saddened to know that I am not a watersports bottom.  Also to the moderators, I can't help but laugh at the job you're doing here.  I get rebuked for using the words "hooker" and "prostitute" then we have a member come in here, express his fantasies on detaining, restraining and urinating all over another member and not so much as a word?  Keep up the good work team!  I wonder what would happen to a male AIDS MEDS member if they were to publicly declare fantasizing doing the very same thing things mentioned in the above quote to a female member of this site?  I'm guessing a time out at the very least however I wouldn't be suprised if that member was banned, but I digress...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 10:07:42 pm by 404error »
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline srmn98

  • Member
  • Posts: 133
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2007, 10:07:26 pm »
I think I poorly worded this.  I do agree that the girl in question would be deserving of respect.  The same level of respect I would show a barista, a waitress, a clerk in a clothing store, basically anyone who works directly with the public and is there doing their job. 


In my opinion, there is no hierarchy to human life, or to respect. I try to give the same amount of respect to a waitress that I would to a loved one. I don't think there are levels with this kind of thing -- we are talking about people's lives.


« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 10:09:14 pm by srmn98 »

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,813
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2007, 10:33:27 pm »
wow. here's my 2 cents. no human sexual interaction is merely a transaction. treat them with respect? sure. get off - most definitely. before hitting them up let them know you are poz, it is one less thing you will have to worry about. you are already concerned about people accepting your status or possibly passing on the disease. you cannot mask this concern by paying for sex. if i were you, i'd send them an email asking if they are okay with poz men. a simple yes or no will allow you to proceed. a phone call screening can be as effective.

no, i do not believe anyone should walk over another human being. yes, i think sex work/prostitution/hooking/tricking is acceptable. like with all workers, treat them with the level of respect they treat you with and be sure to get your money's worth : )~
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5
sept14 cd4 990; vl ud; cd4% *
jun15 cd4 1152; vl ud; cd4% *
july15 - STRIBILD
oct15 cd4 583; vl 146; cd4% 42
mar16 cd4 860; vl 20; 44

Offline vokz

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • efavirenz junkie
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2007, 04:01:37 am »
I have some serious fantasies about what a bunch of women would do to you if we could just tie u up and then piss all over you.

Don’t say things like that. You will get him all excited and he will have nothing left for his appointment with Misty.

Offline OneTampa

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,021
  • "Butterflies are free."
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2007, 12:36:55 pm »
Hello All,

Please excuse us, my friends and I are just walking through. By the way,  I'd like to introduce you to Common Sense and 'Lotsa Compassion.  We don't want to cause trouble but it seems that the person posing the question about having sex with a sex trade entrepreneur (our term) should take proper precautions for the sake of all parties (himself included) concerned. If he is determined to conduct business, he should do so and be pleasant about it--and banish all negative thoughts about whether the business person should be accorded respect and decent treatment.
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 797
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2007, 01:28:20 pm »
Also to the moderators, I can't help but laugh at the job you're doing here.  I get rebuked for using the words "hooker" and "prostitute" then we have a member come in here, express his fantasies on detaining, restraining and urinating all over another member and not so much as a word?  Keep up the good work team! 

404, if you feel that you're on the receiving end of abuse, send a moderator report. We can't act on something if we don't know about -- and, no, we're not all sitting around, 24 hours a day, monitoring every active thread. We received moderator reports about your initial message. And you weren't even rebuked by a moderator -- you weren't warned or even threatened with a warning, but rather provided with some food for thought regarding your use of language if you wanted your post to be taken at all seriously. So please get off your high horse. 

And Bear... there was no reason to degrade this conversation with the comment you made above.

Tim Horn 

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 34,126
Re: Are prostitutes...
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2007, 02:13:24 pm »
I don't see this thread as progressive communication. It's been up long enough to collect a number of opinions, stir some flames and it's no in my opinion going anywhere that's helpful.

So I am going to risk our missing some epiphany and lock it now.

And lets not have PART2 begun in a new thread.

 
Andy Velez

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2024 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.