How long did u live with hiv?share your experience

[Hopeful2016]

Hey friends...
For how long each one of u lived with hiv?
How did u find living with it?
How many times did u change regimens through the years if u do?and what was the reason for change if any?
I find your experiences agreat inspiration for us newbies
Waiting from u all
Love u

[ARMANDO]

I have been living with HIV for almost 30 yrs.I look back sometimes and i have to say it has not been easy and i am amazed that i am still alive especially since all of my friends have died!I think about all the different medications that i have been ,all of them with horrible side effects,my body changing ,my face changing and the lengths i  have gone to be and look normal.I feel sorry for these young kids who are just finding out being HIV+ ,how will they cope?do they have the strength?do they have any idea how this will change their lives?will they just give up?I don't think i could do this all over again,i just don't.For me ,the solitude and the isolation is the worst part and i find myself becoming more and more an introvert,It seems like i am just existing and not living.This is just my own personal experience and i hope i haven't offended anyone.

[Tonny2]

Hey friends...
For how long each one of u lived with hiv?
How did u find living with it?
How many times did u change regimens through the years if u do?and what was the reason for change if any?
I find your experiences agreat inspiration for us newbies
Waiting from u all
Love u

          ojo         Hello egypcianman....welcome...I think you are on Atripla, aren't you?

I've been living with hiv for 28 years, although, I was dx'ed, in 1994 (long story to explain)...I was told, after I asked the doctor, how much longer I would live, he told me two years...I was dx'ed in Nov 94, after being diagnosed with PCP and AIDS, cd4=20...I started treatment in Jan 1995, from that day that I satrted treatment untill 2000, I lived with AIDS due to treatment failure, I tried all kind of combos, I was resistance to all of them, in the summer of the year 2000, I started a new treatment, Kaletra, Agenerase and Sustiva), it worked, my cd4 went from zero to 361, all this time, while living with AIDS, I kept working, it didn't matter to me how sick I felt, but I weny yo work, it wasn't easy, but I had to do it...I got lots of OIs, I dealt whit them, and when back to work, until I started having problems with my eyesight due to CMV retinitis (to me, the worse infection I got), I got retinal detachments, havint to go through surgery and several weeks off to recover, fortunally, I had a goverment job,, but, I was back at work after recovering, had several surgeries like these in both eyes, until Aug 21 2000, my bd, it was my last day at work because I couldnt see any more, you want to know a secret?, a year before, 1999, I losr my vision in my right eye after a surgery (doctors mistake left me without retina), and nobody knew about it, but, finally I couldn't work anymore, for safety reason...from 2000 to 2005, this treatment I mentioned, it was still working but it was causing pancreatitis, I had three episodes of pancreatitis, having to stay in the hospital for 15 days, no food, no drink, just hydration via IV, but I was watching the food channel everyday, my eyes got fat of so many food I ate through them, lol, I couldn't see to well tho...so, another sombo, it didn't work, weht beck to cd4-36, AIDS, one year and a half again with AIDS, in August 3006, on my bd, my doctor told me, we had tried everything TONNY2, go home and let's see what happens...October same year, doctor called me to let me know that there was a treatment called "salvage treatment", that they were offering to people like me, not approved by the FDA then, and  if I wanted to participate on that program, I said yes, I started this "salvage treatment", which it was free for a year, in January of 2007, three months after taking this treatment (Prezista, Norvir, Intelence), my VL=UD since dx in 1994, and my cd4=361...since then then, I've been taking the same treatment and I'm still UD and my cd4=619 and cd4%=29, nine years with the same meds and still kicking hiv ass...contrary to ARMANDO, living with AIDS, was a cha;;enge, it wasn't something I wasn't allow to control me, trust me, it was difficul, I would go to work wearing long sleeve shirts during the hot days of summer, because I had tp hide the pick line I had in my arm, I got Molluscous Contagious, ugly bumps on my face and body, never care, especially agter treating them (freezing them), living a bad scar on my face, working with my mouth so dry due to the side effects of the meds, and I as said before, almost blind working my last year, and I kept figjting because of my family support and I have a mother who still have to take care of, well, we take care of each other...I started to isolate myself when I couldn't see anymore, because I coulldn't drive anymore, losing this privilege, I lost my freedom, but I still keep fighting, I live with pain, neuropatic pain, b;ind eye pain, ribs pain, since I get up in the morning and go to bed with it, still walk my dog around the block, I sti;; travel to the old country, and more importanly, still enjoy my family, it's getting bigger and bigger every year, I've seen nephews and nieces get born, graduating from high school, others getting married, they have even made me a grans uncle, darn mephews and nieces, now, I feel like an old fart, grand uncle, lol...so, there is life after a HIV dx, we have to make the best of what our destiny brought us, thankfully for all of you newbies. meds are great now, even just one pill a day, little or not side effects, all that we have to do to keep having a happy and productive lives, it's, take our meds as prescribed, do not see your meds as a reminder you have hiv, but be grateful you have a "vitamine", that will let you enjoy your family, your life and your loved ones, you can keep dreaming, setting goal for the future, but also, you have to have a positive attitude, we can't not turn back time, but we can live a long and happy life with the rightt attitude...you will be around for a long time, don't you isolate, you don't hhave tatooes on your forehead "I'm HIV POSITIVE", if you don't want to disclose, it is ok, I haven't told anyone that I have hemmorroids, why I would tell them I'm hiv positive, lol, yes, I do have hemooroids problems, I'm mexican, that what eating spyce food does to your ass, lol...sorry for the long reply, can you imagine how much longer my reply would be if I could see well?, lol...good luck, take your med, and I w      ill see you on here in 20 years. same thing for all of you guys reading me, I know it is difficult to deal with the dx, but like I said, meds are good, how, when we got this virus is irrelevant at this point, let's say, what is next?, taking a pill at day amd keep your chin and head up, it is the only way for a happy future and happy life...best of luck...hugs                                                                                                                            ojo
                                                                                                               

[harleymc]

Salaam Egyptianman,
I was diagnosed in 1985. I'm living a happy fulfilled life, it has taken a bit of effort over the years.
I've lost track with how many medications I've been on over the years but the era before combination therapies was a different world.
Hugs

[BT65]

Hi
Well I was diagnosed in '89 but most likely infected in '87 since that was when I got back with my first ex husband, who died in '89.  So, next year will be 30 years. I've been on so many therapies, it would be impossible to name them all, starting with AZT monotherapy through HAART which saved my life.

I went through the wasting syndrome in the early/middle 90's, went down to 80 lbs and I"m 5'10", had Hospice, got a power of attorney, by then I had already lived longer than doctors had predicted. When diagnosed I was told I would be dead in 2 years, to make a will and make sure my daughter would be taken care of.  Things have come a long way.

I went on disability when I had the wasting syndrome, and since then have worked part time in the last 8 years, to allow me to stay on disability and keep the insurance.  I tried coming off disability by working full time but was unable to keep up the pace so I went back on disability. 

Today things are a lot different than what they were.  You will live a long fulfilling life.  Like Tonny2 said, you can have your goals and dreams.  Go for everything you can get out of life and live your dreams.  Thanks for starting this thread to tap our brains. Hope to see more from you!

Betty

[leatherman]

as someone who has lived with AIDS/HIV for 31 year, you know what advice I have for people newly diagnosed since this is 2016 and not 1996, and the meds have been so greatly improved?

Stick to you meds every day.
Live life to the fullest (it's the only life you have!).

And since the meds will definitely keep you from dying an early death, plan for your retirement, because you're going to be needing that money when you're 80 or 90.

[Hopeful2016]

I have been living with HIV for almost 30 yrs.I look back sometimes and i have to say it has not been easy and i am amazed that i am still alive especially since all of my friends have died!I think about all the different medications that i have been ,all of them with horrible side effects,my body changing ,my face changing and the lengths i  have gone to be and look normal.I feel sorry for these young kids who are just finding out being HIV+ ,how will they cope?do they have the strength?do they have any idea how this will change their lives?will they just give up?I don't think i could do this all over again,i just don't.For me ,the solitude and the isolation is the worst part and i find myself becoming more and more an introvert,It seems like i am just existing and not living.This is just my own personal experience and i hope i haven't offended anyone.

I feel what u said...it seems like we r just existing and not living...we fight to live while others live to dream

[Hopeful2016]

Salaam Egyptianman,
I was diagnosed in 1985. I'm living a happy fulfilled life, it has taken a bit of effort over the years.
I've lost track with how many medications I've been on over the years but the era before combination therapies was a different world.
Hugs

Salam...i hope it will be easier... Hugs

[Hopeful2016]

          ojo         Hello egypcianman....welcome...I think you are on Atripla, aren't you?
                                                                                               
                                                                                                               

Yes I'm on atripla...i read your story many times...so sorry for what you had to go through...although being strong man challenging this bug how could u do so?
Why was you resistant to all of the meds? When I read your story i admire u as afighter of this disease but...
It really scared me Tonny... Yeah I'm terrified when I read it...because of resistance you mentioned!!!
When i told it's one apill per day i said it's ok but...what about resistance? When I read your story i felt so horrible!! Could you tell me why you get through all of this if the meds are effective?
Love u anyway

[Hopeful2016]

Hi
Well I was diagnosed in '89 but most likely infected in '87 since that was when I got back with my first ex husband, who died in '89.  So, next year will be 30 years. I've been on so many therapies, it would be impossible to name them all, starting with AZT monotherapy through HAART which saved my life.

I went through the wasting syndrome in the early/middle 90's, went down to 80 lbs and I"m 5'10", had Hospice, got a power of attorney, by then I had already lived longer than doctors had predicted. When diagnosed I was told I would be dead in 2 years, to make a will and make sure my daughter would be taken care of.  Things have come a long way.

I went on disability when I had the wasting syndrome, and since then have worked part time in the last 8 years, to allow me to stay on disability and keep the insurance.  I tried coming off disability by working full time but was unable to keep up the pace so I went back on disability. 

Today things are a lot different than what they were.  You will live a long fulfilling life.  Like Tonny2 said, you can have your goals and dreams.  Go for everything you can get out of life and live your dreams.  Thanks for starting this thread to tap our brains. Hope to see more from you!

Betty

So sorry to hear u got through Betty but i like your strength.. But let me know why did you experience wasting syndrome if u were on treatment? Will anyone experience it even if he was on treatment?

[Hopeful2016]

as someone who has lived with AIDS/HIV for 31 year, you know what advice I have for people newly diagnosed since this is 2016 and not 1996, and the meds have been so greatly improved?

Stick to you meds every day.
Live life to the fullest (it's the only life you have!).

And since the meds will definitely keep you from dying an early death, plan for your retirement, because you're going to be needing that money when you're 80 or 90.

Hey Leatherman...u make me always optimistic when I read your comments... I see u have avery positive attitude towards the diagnosis... I try to do so but I'm scared...u said that everryone has an individual experience with hiv and medicines... No rules...it's all about uncertainty... If u know u had diabetes then u take ur tablets and u r sure it will work but when dealing with hiv...the issue is different... Isn't it? I like ur pics btw

[leatherman]

If u know u had diabetes then u take ur tablets and u r sure it will work but when dealing with hiv...the issue is different... Isn't it?

no, it really isn't that different. Although everyone may have some slightly different issues or side effects dealing with HIV, when a patient takes their medications we are sure they will become healthier and live longer lives. Matter of fact, the meds are so good these days that many people living with HIV have few health issues (related to HIV) and live normal lifespans (sometimes even longer than normal because we have better access to health care and monitoring than many people)

I see u have a very positive attitude towards the diagnosis... I try to do so but I'm scared

All those worries and fears you have, well I had those way back in 1995 when AIDS/HIV was killing off all my friends. But that was twenty years ago and a LOT of things have changed. They developed HIV meds and then they improved them. I don't have those worries or fears anymore because I'm too busy being alive and healthy.

I work. I volunteer. I've got the best boyfriend in the world. We have season passes to the local amusement park (we went 35 times two years ago, we went 28 times last year, and we're already been 3 times this spring and summer isn't even here yet). I go to the gym three times a week. I advocate in the Legislature for money and programs to help those living with HIV and to prevent others from getting HIV. I love doing yard work, and growing plants. My boyfriend and I are digging and leveling out a part of the yard so we can put up a swimming pool for summer. We go out drinking and dancing at least once a month. We have friends over for dinner and card games a couple times a month. --- And that's just a small sample of my life having recently turned 54 and after having lived with HIV for 31.5 years.

I live my life because the meds take care of my HIV so I don't have to worry about. I try to live my life to the fullest because I remember my previous partners and good friends who didn't have the meds 30 years ago and aren't alive anymore. Others in the past (and thank goodness we aren't in the past anymore) weren't as lucky as you and I are to have meds that we have today. So I suggest you try to do the same thing I'm doing - take your meds and continue living your life to fullest while planning to live into you 70s, 80s, or 90s!

I like ur pics btw

thanks! that's me (in the Coca Cola tie. I LOVE Coke!!) and my partner (the best boyfriend in the world!) advocating for comprehensive medically-accurate sexual health education for young people, and the one with us in the funny yellow glasses is us at the amusement park this year having a great time on a new ride with 3d graphics.

btw, I think you should re-read everyone's stories as you took away the wrong conclusion. Tonny, Betty, and I are all long term survivors. We were diagnosed when there either were no meds or the meds were the very first ones and not so great. While we talked about wasting and resistance, those things happened because HIV treatment was just in it's beginning. And look, even with not so good treatment, here we are today, doing things, going about our business, and enjoying our lives. That was the conclusion you were supposed to take away. 

[Hopeful2016]

thanks! that's me (in the Coca Cola tie. I LOVE Coke!!) and my partner (the best boyfriend in the world!) advocating for comprehensive medically-accurate sexual health education for young people, and the one with us in the funny yellow glasses is us at the amusement park this year having a great time on a new ride with 3d graphics.

btw, I think you should re-read everyone's stories as you took away the wrong conclusion. Tonny, Betty, and I are all long term survivors. We were diagnosed when there either were no meds or the meds were the very first ones and not so great. While we talked about wasting and resistance, those things happened because HIV treatment was just in it's beginning. And look, even with not so good treatment, here we are today, doing things, going about our business, and enjoying our lives. That was the conclusion you were supposed to take away. 

Welcome Honey but when I re-read stories especially Tonny...i got terrified... He seems to be avery responsible and adherent.. Why does he fail all combos if the meds are very effective as u said?he said that's was owing to resistance... So why did he develop resistance to all treatments and lived with AIDS six years?can u explain for me...but anyway i love u and wish you will be 90 and maybe we can meet someday!!! U seem to be younger than me lol

[Tonny2]

Yes I'm on atripla...i read your story many times...so sorry for what you had to go through...although being strong man challenging this bug how could u do so?
Why was you resistant to all of the meds? When I read your story i admire u as afighter of this disease but...
It really scared me Tonny... Yeah I'm terrified when I read it...because of resistance you mentioned!!!
When i told it's one apill per day i said it's ok but...what about resistance? When I read your story i felt so horrible!! Could you tell me why you get through all of this if the meds are effective?
Love u anyway

           OJO         hELLO AGAIN EGYPTIANMAN...i REPLIED TO YOUR POST ON THE "SALVEGE TREATMENT" THREAD...PLEASE STOPR WORRYING SO MUCH, YOU ARE GOING TO BE FINE...STRESS ISN'T GOOD FOR YOU, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE SCARED...HUGS, HUGS, HUGS                                                          OJO

[GSOgymrat]

I've been HIV+ 23 years. I was diagnosed with AIDS not long after infection but fortunately didn't have any debilitating illnesses. Things were more stressful before protease inhibitors came out in 1996 and my number started improving. I've been on a lot of different medications over the years, especially when I didn't have insurance and participated in clinical trials to obtain some kind of medication. I actually just switched medications again last week. I've been luckier than most people, HIV+ or not. I've never been clinically depressed or seriously ill. My labs are great. I've worked full-time, often 60 hours per week, since diagnosis. Back when I was diagnosed HIV was a cloud over my head but I don't really think about HIV that much anymore.

[Hopeful2016]

I've been HIV+ 23 years. I was diagnosed with AIDS not long after infection but fortunately didn't have any debilitating illnesses. Things were more stressful before protease inhibitors came out in 1996 and my number started improving. I've been on a lot of different medications over the years, especially when I didn't have insurance and participated in clinical trials to obtain some kind of medication. I actually just switched medications again last week. I've been luckier than most people, HIV+ or not. I've never been clinically depressed or seriously ill. My labs are great. I've worked full-time, often 60 hours per week, since diagnosis. Back when I was diagnosed HIV was a cloud over my head but I don't really think about HIV that much anymore.

Great to hear from you that you didn't face any problems regarding your hiv status... When I was discovering your posts i saw three pics of u in Halloween i think...if i saw them and don't know ur status, i will never assume that this sexy man is positive which is great...may God bless you
Hugs

[GSOgymrat]

Great to hear from you that you didn't face any problems regarding your hiv status...

The problems for me were mainly in the early 90's when AIDS was imminently terminal. Today treatment is so much better. I'm grateful I lived long enough to benefit from the hard work of the activists, researchers and other supporters of HIV treatment.

[metekrop]

Refer to my profile as to how I am living with HIV.  I got this virus, I guess b/n 1993 - 1995. First diagnosis in 2000.  Start medication in July 2008 after hospitalize for three months and having a near death experience.  I am now in only on Combo, Atripla is just my best friend. So far I took like 2,920 pills every single day.  Hope I will continue taking it until the end of my life.  I have a nine years old son and wife who, with the grace of God are negative.  I am living life in full.  And amazingly I am working full time and very much aggressively like a healthy individual.  I am now 48. But, I am always thinking that this virus is the worst and nastiest of all.

[Hopeful2016]

Refer to my profile as to how I am living with HIV.  I got this virus, I guess b/n 1993 - 1995. First diagnosis in 2000.  Start medication in July 2008 after hospitalize for three months and having a near death experience.  I am now in only on Combo, Atripla is just my best friend. So far I took like 2,920 pills every single day.  Hope I will continue taking it until the end of my life.  I have a nine years old son and wife who, with the grace of God are negative.  I am living life in full.  And amazingly I am working full time and very much aggressively like a healthy individual.  I am now 48. But, I am always thinking that this virus is the worst and nastiest of all.

Yes it is the nastiest staff we ever had but as u said we must believe it's treatable to be able to live our life

[young89]

Was in a funk today regarding my status.
Been positive 3 years now.
I'm 26.

I appreciate you all posting your stories and experiences.
Reminds me that I'm not alone.

God bless

[xunil]

From my perspective, being young and diagnosed within the past year and started treatment immediately, I feel the "nastiest" part is the social stigma.  I'm not scared of the medications anymore, the virus itself, etc.  I have access to good health care and due to the constant monitoring related to the virus I'm probably more likely to live longer and healthier than most. 

So I'm not scared of all that...  I am scared of dating though!  Well, not really scared, I've been putting myself out there, but it is more difficult and can mess with your head.  I'm not going to let any of that stop me. 

[Hopeful2016]

From my perspective, being young and diagnosed within the past year and started treatment immediately, I feel the "nastiest" part is the social stigma.  I'm not scared of the medications anymore, the virus itself, etc.  I have access to good health care and due to the constant monitoring related to the virus I'm probably more likely to live longer and healthier than most. 

So I'm not scared of all that...  I am scared of dating though!  Well, not really scared, I've been putting myself out there, but it is more difficult and can mess with your head.  I'm not going to let any of that stop me. 

I'm also scared of dating!!! 
I'm not intending to catch any other STI like Hep c!

[Reggie]

I'm "newly"  diagnosed in a way....2 and a half years, diagnosed with AIDS and an OI and low cd4 count...Looking back now I thought my life as it was-used to be-was over.....I live in Thailand , not my Mother country and recieved emergency treatment here......

First 9 months I was onmy first regiment the side effects were bad and never improved.At first the Docters were reluctant to change my regime as it had worked wonders in bringin my viral load to undetectable from over a million and getting my cd4's to a safe level quickly.And yes I am very greatfull for this and for being diagnosed in 2013 when its not a death sentence and there are options in treatment...

I lost a family member about 10 years ago who was diagnosed at the beginning of the epidemic.I remember my Mom telling me how bad he  felt on he various medictaions and respectfully now I look back as he  was also like a guinea pig so to speak like many of the Long term survivors can understand better than I will ever know!

He buried most his friends from back in those days.....seemed like he might make it-----but eventually died from a nose bleed in his room alone----his blod having been thinned from all the treatments he tried....

I was depreseed, not at all myself-freaky  vivid dreams non stop and thought  this was just the new me.Until for the work of so many people I was lucky enough to be able to change to  a treatment that works for me 9 months later---with no mental benefits....so grateful and life is beautiful again. I have a total awareness now for what people have done and are going through and doing for this. And I feel priviledged to be a part of it...

I have to deal with the stigma/relationship status/side effects  on the body and organs etcc...but at the same time I feel like living. a good life that can also help others....

I don't have the worrying thought that I have this virus in my head now. I do and its real, and I also have a life to live.And lucky can go from here....

So yeah don't give up hope as bad as things get, can be.There's so many helpfull and wonderfull people here to turn to as well.

Hope that helps. I got on my feet again with alot of support and advice from people right here on this forum and hope I can  help others .

Respectfully

Reggie

[owt]

all in can see here as a constant about long term people is how hard they have been suffering and all the health issues... how difficult and how sad

i don't want to be disrespectful at all, but for me that's is not life.

i really don't know if a will be able to deal with that.

and well about me, since i started the meds my health has been worse and worse, i have Kaposi Sarcoma i'm 1 year 4 months of treatment (ART , chemo) and this thing doesn't get better.
i'm just so jaded of fighting...

i really hope that treatment is being good for you. and you can enjoy your life.
wish you the best.

[zach]

all in can see here as a constant about long term people is how hard they have been suffering and all the health issues... how difficult and how sad

That's all you see here? Really? You must be doing some very selective reading.

[owt]

That's all you see here? Really? You must be doing some very selective reading.

Yes, i suppose i'm not counting the super-inspirational post from  @leatherman, in his case i think he's been so lucky, and i'm so happy for him, he's a warrior.

[RP61181]

I was born positive 34 (closer to 35) years ago and officially diagnosed in 1989.  I have had a lot of health complications, really too many to list.  As I was a child when the newer antivirals were coming out, I was not allowed to be on them.  The early years of HIV/AIDS were a scary time.  I was told I had a maximum of 10 years to live.  At that time the positive children were sent to clinics to see doctors.  There were like 4 doctors to see over 100 kids, so we spent a lot of time in waiting areas getting to know each other.  I saw a lot of my friends die.  Then the day came that trials were on for children to take the medications.  There is/was a lot of trial and error in finding the exact cocktail that worked for me.  Again those were the early days of antiviral treatment, so the medicines weren't as advanced.  It was deciding which side effects I could manage and which ones I couldn't to figure out which drugs I could take.  I have now been on the same regiment for 14 years with very few side effects.  You have to work with your doctor and communicate with them how you feel on certain drugs.  You might not get the right combination right away and that is ok.  You will find what works for you and as long as you stick to taking those medications as prescribed and listen to your doctor you will live a long life.

[hiv_rizzy]

I'm "newly"  diagnosed in a way....2 and a half years, diagnosed with AIDS and an OI and low cd4 count...Looking back now I thought my life as it was-used to be-was over.....I live in Thailand , not my Mother country and recieved emergency treatment here......

First 9 months I was onmy first regiment the side effects were bad and never improved.At first the Docters were reluctant to change my regime as it had worked wonders in bringin my viral load to undetectable from over a million and getting my cd4's to a safe level quickly.And yes I am very greatfull for this and for being diagnosed in 2013 when its not a death sentence and there are options in treatment...

I lost a family member about 10 years ago who was diagnosed at the beginning of the epidemic.I remember my Mom telling me how bad he  felt on he various medictaions and respectfully now I look back as he  was also like a guinea pig so to speak like many of the Long term survivors can understand better than I will ever know!

He buried most his friends from back in those days.....seemed like he might make it-----but eventually died from a nose bleed in his room alone----his blod having been thinned from all the treatments he tried....

I was depreseed, not at all myself-freaky  vivid dreams non stop and thought  this was just the new me.Until for the work of so many people I was lucky enough to be able to change to  a treatment that works for me 9 months later---with no mental benefits....so grateful and life is beautiful again. I have a total awareness now for what people have done and are going through and doing for this. And I feel priviledged to be a part of it...

I have to deal with the stigma/relationship status/side effects  on the body and organs etcc...but at the same time I feel like living. a good life that can also help others....

I don't have the worrying thought that I have this virus in my head now. I do and its real, and I also have a life to live.And lucky can go from here....

So yeah don't give up hope as bad as things get, can be.There's so many helpfull and wonderfull people here to turn to as well.

Hope that helps. I got on my feet again with alot of support and advice from people right here on this forum and hope I can  help others .

Respectfully

Reggie

What meds are affecting your organs? Can't something be done about that???