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Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: GSOgymrat on January 10, 2007, 02:08:25 am

Title: Smokers
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 10, 2007, 02:08:25 am
I was reading the AIDSmeds article on higher rates of lung cancer for people with HIV and I was surprised that "cigarette smoking is very common among HIV-positive people in the U.S. – one analysis indicated that 60% to 80% of those living with the virus are smokers (compared to smoking rates of 20% to 30% in the general population)" I've never smoked. Are there are lot of people on this forum who do? For those who smoke did you start before or after your diagnosis? I wonder why there is a correlation between HIV infection and smoking.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Queen Tokelove on January 10, 2007, 03:27:55 am
I started smoking at 15, way before I got infected..Would like to quit but my insurance doesn't cover nicotine patches. I am already on 1 antidepressant for neuropathy and it seems like they like to dish out Wellbutrin to stop you from smoking. I'm taking enough pills as it is..
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: BassMan on January 10, 2007, 04:03:26 am
I too have never smoked and was wondering about this. It would be interesting to see a breakdown by gender and sexuality of this 60-80% of HIV+ smokers.

I read recently that in the UK, smoking is much more common amongst younger (late teens  to early twenties) gay men than it is in older gay men. Interestingly, the figures quoted were very similar to the figures on smoking among HIV+ folk in general.

Now, given that (in the UK at least) gay men are still the group most affected by HIV, could it be that smoking has less to do with being HIV+ per se and more to do with being young and gay; and that therefore, the results are being skewed?

Just a thought.

Carl
Manchester, UK
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: carousel on January 10, 2007, 04:50:05 am
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Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 10, 2007, 06:19:48 am

I quit smoking about six weeks before I was diagnosed with hiv. I lasted about 36 hours before I bought some and started smoking again. The first thing I wanted to do when I found out was to light up, so the fact that I didn't for 36 hours I suppose means I do have some willpower. That will be six years ago in February... think it may be time to quit again. ::)

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fondeveau on January 10, 2007, 06:29:42 am
I'm not sure they meant that there is a correlation between smoking and HIV unless its that smokers are wild, rebellious, things that won't do what their told - at any rate, I'm trying Chantix to stop smoking and today is quit day...
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 10, 2007, 06:35:45 am
For those who smoke did you start before or after your diagnosis? I wonder why there is a correlation between HIV infection and smoking.

No idea about the last question, but to answer the first one: I've smoked regularly since about age 16.

I stopped successfully for a decade when my partner Ken and I lived together, and have tried a few times to quit again since then, but no go. I've tried all the Nico-this-and-thats and they seem to have zero effect on me.

My next apartment (which I’m looking for now) will have a balcony, and I’ll make another attempt at quitting by limiting any smoking to the outdoors to begin with. Or if I fail again, I can always just jump.

Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Razorbill on January 10, 2007, 06:36:03 am
Good luck fondeveau
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ChaplinGuy on January 10, 2007, 06:44:16 am
I was glad to see a post on this, as I have always wondered why anyone with HIV or any other serious disease would continue such reckless behavior. (Not casting stones, as I recognize it's my reckless behavior that, even if a non-smoker, got me here.)

That being said, I am curious to know if smokers recognize the impact that they have on those around them. I know that some are more conscious of their habit than others, but I become frustrated when I have to dodge smokers standing outside my building (who seem to form a herd that produces a disgusting cloud around them). And the ones that light up on the escaltors before we even get out of the subway ... don't get me started (have screamed at a few for such rude behavior).

Now that I think about it, smoking in public should be lumped together with HIV - which is criminalized in many states if you knowingly spread it. I'd back a law banning smoking in all public places, given that it directly spreads deadly toxins to those around you without their consent.

Anyone out there considering quitting - do it! If not for yourself (best reason), do it for the people who have to walk in your cancer-causing wake every day.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: david25luvit on January 10, 2007, 06:50:13 am
Like Queen Akasha I too began smoking at the tender age of fifteen...
and back then smoking was not only way cool but much much cheaper.
All credible evidence suggests I should stop and being HIV doesn't help
that's for sure but I can't imagine not being able to light up...its the last
bad habit ( if you don't count an occasional glass of wine) that remains
after a life time of many bad habits...also

I can't imagine what federal and state governments would do without the revenue
...and we pay for those anti smoking campaign advertisements that are found on TV
and other media
 
How ironic that we are looked down upon for our weakness by those same people
who can't wait to get their hands on the tax money it generates and we're talking
billions of dollars just in the United States.

Modified to add...Smokers need love too.  Some of us aren't inconsiderated about our
habit.  We smoke only when & when permitted.  And these days that getting harder.   
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 10, 2007, 06:58:10 am

Studies have shown that quitting smoking is much more difficult than quitting heroin.

Just sayin...

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: carousel on January 10, 2007, 07:04:32 am
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Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 10, 2007, 07:05:03 am
Studies have shown that quitting smoking is much more difficult than quitting heroin.

That's true Ann, and from personal experience I have no doubt about it.

Another thing I know is true: you can't make a non smoker understand nicotine addiction.

So I don't bother trying anymore.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Gary85741 on January 10, 2007, 07:51:17 am

     I agree particularly with David25.  I started smoking when I was 17.  Back then a brand-name carton of smokes cost $2.67 including tax (don't know why I remember that!)  I've never tried to quit.  I have cut back (down) a few times which is what I'd like to do...but not quit personally...as I enjoy it.  Unless someone's changed the Constitution and neglected to advise me...it's my right to do so. 

     I'm considerate of others who are non-smokers and hope in return for that reciprocity...sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.  Some people of course are genuinely bothered by it (eg. asthmatics.)  However to be honest, I don't have patience with those who don't like it just because it's PC to not like it, or those who think they are better than me and other smokers just because they don't smoke.
     Interesting that in the mid-70s, for example, when more people smoked and there weren't sanctions...it did not seem to bother very many non-smokers.  So there's more to the psychology of all this than meets the eye.

     Oh yes, it's getting harder to smoke sociologically...with more prohibitions and ever increasing taxes.  Of course, it's not "good" for someone's physiology.  But then again life is a balance.  If we only did things that are good for us...well think how much each of our lives would change! 
     There are non-smokers who have other equally unhealthy habits, be it excessive drinking or drug use, not getting enough sleep, not adhering to one's medication regimen regularly...not to mention some sexual practices.

     One question no one seems ever able to really answer:  If smoking indeed is so terribly awful for us...how come people weren't dropping like flies in the 1940s-60s when over half the population smoked?  All these studies about second-hand smoke, and outrageous claims such as one having higher criminal tendencies in life if one's mother smoked while pregnant...oh gimme a break.  These studies often are of a very small pool size, usually woefully insufficient to draw valid statistical analyses.

     So I'll keep on smoking and being respectful of non-smokers.  If someone doesn't want to be around me because of it...so be it.  And if they seek to belittle or chastise me...well it wouldn't be long before I gave them their walking papers.

Gary
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 10, 2007, 08:02:11 am
"I'm not sure they meant that there is a correlation between smoking and HIV unless its that smokers are wild, rebellious, things that won't do what their told - at any rate, I'm trying Chantix to stop smoking and today is quit day"....Fondeveau
...................................................
I totally agree with this statement.  It may be coincidental...... but correlation???  Get real.
Modified to add: in my mind...... correlation implies a causal relationship...like cigarette smoking causes HIV....and there is no data to support that statement....at least I dont think so.  If you are "profiling" people with HIV then it is ok to say that more people with HIV smoke than does the general population.   But what does that actually say?....


Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 10, 2007, 08:06:04 am

  I started smoking at the age of 21 when I should have known better.   Since quitting weed my cigarette smoking has probably doubled.   It almost seems I can smoke one in 5 pulls...  I swear they go so fast!  

  I saw the article and saw that it is statistacally skewed.  I mean 25-30% of the general population smoke as opposed to 60-80% of HIVers.  Of course this means our percentage of lung cancer diagnosis/deaths are going to be higher.     Sheeez... Am I rationalizing it or what?

  I was suppose to quit on New Years... Then I changed it to my birthday...  Now I've changed my quit date to Martin Luther King's Birthday...  ::)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 10, 2007, 08:10:11 am
Awwwwwww Thomas.....  You said you were going to quit.  I know I know....tomorrow is another day.  Start with today...then deal with tomorrow.  I have been off cigarettes for over 6 months now.  Wellbutrin is the key for me.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: tendai on January 10, 2007, 08:13:19 am
how about smoking pot?  since its got medicinal properties. i have a friend who likes me to share his joint sometimes. kinda worries me a bit
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Coffeechick88 on January 10, 2007, 08:16:19 am
Smoking was the one rebellious thing I started as a teen (that includes weed).  I smoked about a pack or more a day of Marboro Menthol Lights 100s in a box.  Though sometimes I would switch brands and types because I was bored and wanted to see if I liked anything better.  I did also like Kools.  I did quit soon after diagnosis, but it didn't begin as any conscious effort.  You cannot really smoke if you are in the hospital and too sick to bathe yourself, let alone wheel your IV pole outside to go smoke.  When I did begin feeling better, I did feel like jumping out of my third floor hospital window, because no one would buy me cigarettes and the doctor wouldn't let me leave--I did even contemplate wheeling my IV pole down the road to the gas station.  They did give me those inhalor things.  I eventually kept up the quitting, I have asthma, so it never was a good thing to be smoking in the first place.  If I didn't have that issue, you can bet I would be still smoking---and loving every minute of it.  I guess it is worth it, though.  Besides my lungs being in better shape, I do have more money in my pocket, though I can't really complain much since Indiana,while expensive, it still is one of the cheapest (if not the cheapest) places to buy cigarettes in the states.  I remember when I was in Chicago, we would all drive across the border to buy cigarettes--when the tax rose astronomically there.  I still get times when work is stressful and I think about picking that habit up again.....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 10, 2007, 08:19:52 am
Statistics 101: Correlation is not causation.

Because a higher percentage of people with HIV smoke doesn't mean smoking causes HIV or HIV causes smoking. It does mean there is some kind of relationship between people who smoke and people who have HIV if the originally quoted statistic is even valid. I'm curious as to the nature of that relationship.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: racingmind on January 10, 2007, 09:07:25 am
I had been thinking about quitting long before my diagnosis, and when I got it, I looked into the effects of smoking on HIV folk.  It turns out that the carbon monoxide in cigarette smoke kills CD4 cells in the smoker.  As we all know, us HIVers need everyone of those we can produce.  I am in the process of trying to quit.  I have stopped all of my bad habits after being diagnosed and started eating better and joined a gym for exercise. I cannot seem to get rid of the smokes though.  I'm on Wellbutrin for 2 months now and I thought I would be done by the new year, but alas I am still smoking.  I keep buying the cheapest, most disgusting cigarettes I can find so that I will not enjoy them as much.....

The funny thing is that both my primary and my ID doctors suggested that I not try to quit immediately after diagnosis...I guess fearing that I would be going through enough without adding the discomfort of nictotine withdraw to the mix...

I know I will feel better about myself if I can rid myself of smoking...if I do, I plan to reward myself with fun things I wouldn't ordinarily buy for myself with the money I'm not spending on cigarettes....

Good Luck to us all that are trying to quit.....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ChaplinGuy on January 10, 2007, 09:17:29 am

Let me just add to my (admittedly) caustic remarks here and send I truly have the utmost respect and admiration for any and all of you who have, are trying, or will eventually quit smoking. I make an effort to applaud the efforts of folks I encounter who have succeeded, and wish every one of you trying the best.

Just remember you CAN do it and the benefits extend far beyond your health!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: dixieman on January 10, 2007, 09:39:23 am
Hey, I smoked on and off over the years and I do smoke weed for medicinal purposes.... but, has anyone correlated the effects of alcohol with their meds.... I quit drinking but, I will occassionally have a glass of wine... but, alcohol with meds does not work.... I've known several people who continued to drink alcohol with their meds and had a counter effect on shutting down the liver...Unfortunately they died... alcohol just does not mix well with the medications for hiv... so I enjoy my weed... in moderation.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 10, 2007, 10:06:23 am
I started smoking at 25 so that was 26 years ago. I like to smoke so I don't see myself quitting anytime soon. My lungs are clear and the xrays are clear so I'm not pressured to quit.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aztecan on January 10, 2007, 10:07:56 am
I have smoked since I was 16.

I think the problem is that quitting is now so PC.

Everyone should quit, so government, the PC police, and, sometimes, the actual police, say. It is socially acceptable to quit. It is socially unacceptable to keep smoking.

Good drones quit smoking. Good drones act properly. Good drones abstain from sex until marriage.

Regardless of how bad it is for my health, the attitudes of rabid anti-smokers is enough to make me dig in my heels.

There was a story recently where a couple who lived in condo were told they could no longer smoke in their own home because the smoke was "migrating" to othe condos.

First, I would definitely question the building standards of those condos and, second, I would tell the condo association to stuff it or buy me out.

I've been stopped at a traffic light and had someone in an adjacent car give me grief because I was smoking. Bad move on their part.

Sorry, but being an old queer comes with its own baggage, including rebelliing against societal inquisitions such as this.

For the record, I have tried quitting - repreatedly. I did it before all the PC hoopla. I actually did OK, as long as I didn't have to speak to anyone, work, or eat.

I tried the patches. Did you know you get an interesting high when you smoke while wearing a patch? My doc wasn't amused.

The problem is I don't want to quit. I enjoy smoking. Now, with the added allure of it being socially rebelious, there is yet another edge added to it.

We learned nothing from prohibition.

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 10, 2007, 10:23:51 am
How appropriate a post....  I quit today..  The thought has been there for a year.  I am absolutely so fed up with this vice that it really PISSES ME OFF that such a thing has such control over me.    I know how bad it is for me and I do not have the immune system to deal with it.   1 + 1 = 2.   I never get this to add up until of late...   I am sure its mucking up things and BY GOD this is going to stop here and now......
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 10, 2007, 10:25:03 am
How appropriate a post....  I quit today.. 

HUGE CONGRATZ ERIC  :)  :)

What about Will?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 10, 2007, 10:25:43 am
I am also a smoker.  I can quit.  I have quit many many times.  I doubt that smoking and HIV are related.  I think that smoking is just more common among gay men.   Walk into any of the gay bars around here (the midwest) and you'll see more than half of the patrons are smokers.  I think it might be a regional thing too.  I visit friends near San Francisco frequently and notice there are fewer smokers.  We went to a gay bar and there was a sign saying that the police would be called if you lit up a cigarette.  I also noticed many of the patrons off in the corners smoking marijuana with out any problem.  What's up with that?  I think a lot of it is political correctness run amok.  

I know how addictive smoking can be.  I quit and do quite fine until some negative event sends me back to the store for "just one pack".  I'm deeply hooked right now and my doc says to wait a little while before I try to kick the habit again.  I get so addicted I remember years ago I had just undergone back surgery and was on bed rest.  I snuck out of the hospital and walked three blocks in a hospital gown (with a long coat) to get a pack of smokes and something decent to eat.  

I too recently had a chest x-ray and everything looked fine.  I'll quit for myself when I'm ready.  I don't blow smoke in people's faces or light up around non-smokers.  

Things are a bit too controlled in the US.  I was on a train in europe.  An elderly woman sitting next to me was smoking a cigar and drinking a beer with a bourbon chaser.  My kind of woman.  

Best wishes.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Javicho on January 10, 2007, 10:27:31 am
I smoke since I was 15, and when I found out I was poz i start smoking more bat now I back to my normal 3 or 4 a day

J.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 10, 2007, 10:28:21 am
HUGE CONGRATZ ERIC  :)  :)

What about Will?

Alex, Will has 2 a day... I smoke a pack for no GOD DAM REASON.....   Of course he supports me but this is for me and no one else...   I do not want another diagnosis down the pike that I have to deal with...   I could not handle that...
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 10, 2007, 10:28:40 am
J.

Is that three of four cigarettes or three or four packs?  :-)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 10, 2007, 10:47:53 am
I smoke a pack for no GOD DAM REASON.....  

Yup, you don't need those fags, we've got plenty here!  :D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ChaplinGuy on January 10, 2007, 10:48:04 am
I am not the world's biggest Pelosi fan, but this gets my vote:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/10/house.smoking.ap/index.html
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: woodshere on January 10, 2007, 10:56:05 am
How stupid am I, I didn't start until I was 30.  The Wednesday before Christmas my mom had a heart attack, she smoked (quit 2 years ago) for 40 years.  My father has heart disease and both of my grandfathers died due to heart disease.  Obviously I need, no must quit for my health.  During the past week I have smoked less than a pack, yesterday I only smoked 3 cigarettes and today zero.  Improved health is not the only benefit, quitting will add $100 (a pack in Ky runs about $3.25) to my disposable income.  Plus, my ID doc said Monday if I didn't he would cut off my Wellbutrin XL.   So forget health and money I need my happy pills!!!

Cheers,
Woods
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 10, 2007, 11:02:22 am
 Plus, my ID doc said Monday if I didn't he would cut off my Wellbutrin XL.   So forget health and money I need my happy pills!!!


   I was on that weak stuff one time... all it did was make my coffee taste like crap and my cigarettes taste worse.. guess which one won out?

  I love smoking it is so enjoyable and I fear I will be one of those one day laid up with lung cancer trying to smoke a cigarette :-\
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: poet on January 10, 2007, 11:06:18 am
I'm sure someone here would have the numbers for this (but even without them, does this get us somewhere?): what is the percentage of gay men versus the percentage of straight men (do we still go with 10%?)?  What is the percentage of hiv positive gay men versus hiv positive straight men?  What is the percentage of hiv positive men versus hiv negative men?  What is the percentage of gay men who smoke versus gay men who don't? What is the percentage of gay men who are single versus gay men who are partnered?  What is the percentage of single men who frequent bars versus single men who don't and then the percentage of partnered gay men who frequent bars versus partnered gay men who don't?  And by only thinking about this, would we see a pattern, such as men are more likely to go to bars if they are single and if they frequent bars, more likely to smoke? A larger picture, in short, of hiv postive men, their habits, their relationship status.  A question hovering, since you can't get infected if you don't have sex (ignoring, for this, needles sticks, blood transfusions, etc.) can we connect some dots, with correlations between gay men venturing out and getting infected?  Win

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 10, 2007, 11:11:32 am
Yup, you don't need those fags, we've got plenty here!  :D

I would rather seek comfort in knowing that the fags here can concur and rule over a vice??  It seems so rediculous to me that here I am fighting for my life and I am stepping all over that fight with smoking.   Now that is FUCKED UP in my mind....  I am going to hit the gym hard and just wear myself down when I get all cranky and want to kill guests/patrons alike.   I think whenever you start a job in the Guest Service industry, that HR should just hand you out a carton of cigs during orientation.. ;)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aztecan on January 10, 2007, 11:13:22 am
It figures CNN would run this. They refuse to hire smokers.

I had a friend who, while battling non-Hodgkins Lymphoma, used to sneak down the hall and light up in the hospital linen closet.

Good ol California. Leave it to the politicos from there to be PC. I remember visiting my ex in Pasadena and learning they no longer are able to use charcoal barbecue grills because "they cause too much pollution."

This from the same state that rails against pollution, forces covers to be placed on cattle trucks, yet freely uses power generated by coal-fired generating stations in other states.

I just find the whole anti-smoking issue hypocritical. The aerosolized mercury levels in my area are among the highest in the nation - because of coal-fired generating stations. People are cautioned against eating fish from local rivers as a result and we have very high rates of pulmonary disease because of the pollution.

Yet nearby Farmington just passed one of those smoking bans while, just a few months earlier, approving government revenue bonds to refinance one of the local coal-fired generating stations built 50 years ago.

Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ihavehope on January 10, 2007, 11:13:41 am
That is so dumb. To smoke and be HIV poz.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Optimistic on January 10, 2007, 11:29:47 am
maybe I misunderstood the article, but it seems to me that the article is saying even non smokers who are hiv + have an increase risk in lung disorders. Anyhow, I quit cigs as soon as I found out my status...but I didn't smoke much to begin with.

Justin
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Boo Radley on January 10, 2007, 11:38:19 am
I started smoking tobacco in my teens but after a bout with hepatitis A in early 1980 I stopped for good (the cigarettes tasted godawful and I figured it was an opportunity to stop tobacco).  What really happened is I started smoking more pot and have ever since, with few interruptions.  Now I smoke between 1 - 2 joints a day but in my 20s and 30s I smoked far more since most of my friends smoked it, too.

I'm allergic to tobacco smoke and can't be in a smoke filled room for more than 5 minutes without feeling ill.  That's a good excuse to stay out of bars and other venues where tobacco smoke is concentrated.  I haven't been around many poz people in the last few years but when I was a lot of the guys smoked.  My best friend smoked until his lungs began filling with Coccidioides immitis and he was too ill. 

I guess a lot of people handle part of the stress of being poz by smoking tobacco.  I use pot.

Boo
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Pippet on January 10, 2007, 11:42:32 am
Mark me down as another smoker...  I too, have been smoking since the age of 15 (25 years).
I was also a heavy drinker before diagnosis so that was the first habit I dropped. Smoking is next on the list, after I get past the shock of everything else. (starting meds etc.)
I don't want to throw my system into a total spiral.  Baby steps...

Good Luck to all who are trying to quit!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Jerry71 on January 10, 2007, 11:44:06 am
I started smoking at the age of 25. I have tried to quit several times and when I was diagnosed with HIV I quit for four months but started right back up. It is very hard to quit. Hopefully if the insurance companies and medical expencies would allow for the patch I might consider to quit. But at the moment I will light up and enjoy my smoke.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 10, 2007, 11:46:31 am
That is so dumb. To smoke and be HIV poz.

Ihavehope - That says it all for me.... Thanks...
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 10, 2007, 11:56:35 am
I actually 'learned' to smoke for a character I was playing in a theatre production.  I had to learn how to hold a cig casually like a second nature because this guy was supposed to be a chain smoker.  I remember getting tunnel vision from onstage because I was still adjusting to the nicotine.  Shortly thereafter, the whole gay coming out thing happened.  Fast forward about a year, and I suddenly have the self-realization that I am a full-fledged smoker.  It really got ahold of me for years.  I kinda quit by default through Wellbutrin prescribed for depression.

And therein I suspect is the 'correlation' between HIV and smoking:  depression.  I think depression lends itself to self-medicating through smoking, alcohol, drugs and yes, sexual behavior.

Anyway, I have to agree with aztecan about a few things.  Even though I really don't smoke these days, sometimes the condescending tone of non-smokers is almost enough to make me wanna pick one up just for spite.  And heaven help the person who might pull up beside me in traffic to berate me for smoking.  They just might find a lit cigarette butt flung into their window as reward.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: BooBoo on January 10, 2007, 12:09:01 pm
I started smoking when I was 14.  And after many failed attempts to quit I think I have finally kicked the habit for good.  It's been almost a year since I've quit and I rarely get the urge to lite up.  Plus, over the past year my CD4 count has risen by about 300 points.....it was about 750 a year ago and in December it was up to 1057......not really sure if there's a connection or not but it sounds like a logical assumption.

My numbers are up, I feel better than I have in years and I've even managed to gain a much needed 10 pounds (and still want to gain another 10).....so I'm just gonna leave the cigarettes alone.

Jim
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Boo Radley on January 10, 2007, 12:20:43 pm
And therein I suspect is the 'correlation' between HIV and smoking:  depression.  I think depression lends itself to self-medicating through smoking, alcohol, drugs and yes, sexual behavior.

Yep, masking depression played a large part in my pot smoking habits for years.  Since starting in the wonderful world of psychotropic pharmaceuticals I don't feel the urge to smoke as much as I once did.

Quote
... sometimes the condescending tone of nonsmokers is almost enough to make me wanna pick one up just for spite.  And heaven help the person who might pull up beside me in traffic to berate me for smoking.  They just might find a lit cigarette butt flung into their window as reward.

I don't condescend, I just start hacking up a lung.  People driving actually say something to other drivers?  Geez, in New Orleans you don't look at other drivers for fear of being shot (and you never look in a car stopped at a traffic light because the person is invariably picking his/her nose).  If I were a smoker and another car pulled up and the driver berated me I'd run the ass off the road!  One must deal with impertinence swiftly and harshly!

Boo
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 10, 2007, 12:34:24 pm
And I assumed I was the only smoker on the forums, LOL!!!!!!  And you guys seem to have it so together too (what people tell me!!)  I gotta quit--find a healthier addiction to replace it.  Funny how being diagnosed with hiv now makes me realize I have too much to live for.

Rick
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 01:07:11 pm
I have too much to live for.

Does this mean you're gonna die soon? :)

I think this would be a case of using a double positive. LOL

-joseph
(who has never smoked)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Longislander on January 10, 2007, 01:34:38 pm
I started at 12. Yep, I'd say it was depression. I quit when I was 34, bad triglycerides results (turned out to be wrong). I got Wellbutrin, bought the patch, went back to the gym everyday, and I was falling in love with a non-smoker-all at the same time. I quit first day. Stopped the pill and patch by 7th day. I lost 35 pounds and started a 5 year relationship.

I never thought of having another cigarette during those 5 years. Even through the pre-breakup stress and the breakup. Then I went to a bar with coworkers, was drinking and they were smoking. Guess what?

I'd say depression, even mild depression, helps a smoker keep smoking.

I've done wellbutrin and the patch since then. It doesn't work the same as that first time. What's missing? The love factor.

I'd give anything to quit. I know how bad it is for me. I've spent $500 on accupressure, useless.
I'm currently taking Chantix, not sure it's doing anything.

Funny how the cost of THE PATCH has skyrocketed al;ong with the price of cigarettes. Used to be 21.99, now it's somewhere in the $60 range.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Salteen on January 10, 2007, 02:10:05 pm
I have tried it here and there a while ago.  However, I do not smoke, guess I am against the odds once again ahaha.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ChaplinGuy on January 10, 2007, 02:17:33 pm

Attention smokers:

Consider this. Imagine someone on the sidewalk picked their nose and flung their snot on you. For us non-smokers, it's the same thing getting stuck next to you in public.

(I will now recede in peace...)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 10, 2007, 02:19:42 pm
Attention smokers:

Consider this. Imagine someone on the sidewalk picked their nose and flung their snot on you. For us non-smokers, it's the same thing getting stuck next to you in public.

(I will now recede in peace...)

READ:  I will log on and make a nasty comment, then duck out before rebuttal.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 02:42:38 pm
Well, we were all "reckless" in obtaining this disease so it's hardly surprising that it's a theme that runs through some lives.  For one, I cut out doing hardcore drugs (and no, I was never an addict... just parting with ecstasy, ketamine, etc.... no heroin or meth (ick!) and I guit all of that after diagnosis in '93 -- though I did indulge again slightly for 2 years around '99.  Haven't touched any of that crap in 5 years.  I also RARELY drink at all.  I think the last time I got drunk was in 2.5 years ago though I will have a glass of wine in a restaurant.

I quit smoking when diagnosed for 2 years and then started up again.  My doctor said that, while not good for me, drugs and booze were worse.  Then again at the time life expectancy was shorter and I saw no reason to be a monk.  I also would get bronchitis yearly which sucks in a smoker, so I underwent hypnosis around '00 and quit for 2 years.  Then I went though an EXCRUTIATING legal situal for 2 years and smoked again.  I've now cut down to about 7 cigarettes/day in the last 2 years and only smoke 3/4 of each cigarette.  I met with a cessation coordinator at my monthly long-term survivor support group just last night who is doing PHD research on smoking in HIV populations so I may do something with her in this study.

My smoking is quite minimal at this point so I guess it won't be that big a leap to finally quit, though it will be my 2nd or 3rd time.  If I quit can I still enjoy a cigar -- you know you don't inhale.  Enjoy the aroma.

Anyway, it's nonsense that smoking causes HIV.  Defies logic.

As far as non-smokers being offended by smokers I'm personally more offended by grossly obese people on the street.  Why MUST I be subjected to them?  And really, which is more unhealthy?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 02:45:28 pm
Quote from: carousel
Smoking does seem to be more prevalent with the Gays.

Oh please... it used to be that I saw people smoking in GROCERY STORES while shopping in North Carolina.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 10, 2007, 02:46:59 pm
Well, we were all "reckless" in obtaining this disease so it's hardly surprising that it's a theme that runs through some lives.


well i was reckless but not ALL of us were - i do believe we have a new member who has had hiv since birth  :-\

i would just replace "all" with "many of us"

you get the idea

anyway - it sounds like you're a hop skip & jump away from returning to non-smoker status  - best of luck amigo

SMOKERS & NON SMOKERS PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS 30 SECOND EDUCATIONAL CLIP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vec6SI6hGkY

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 02:53:21 pm
And really, which is more unhealthy?

My dear philly-

how could you ask such a question?  People who smoke subject others to their habit - second hand smoke - which is much more dangerous than someone choosing to kill themselves by becoming grotesquely obese.

hrm.

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 10, 2007, 03:07:59 pm
This sounds just like what is said about HIV and AIDS. I don't want them in my school, my kids my catch it. I don't want them playing with my kids, they may get cut and my kids may get it. I don't want my child drinking after them they may get it. I don't want them using the toilet as my kids do. This is what I think about second hand smoke. If you don't like the smoke don't go into, bars, bowling alleys, restaurants, don't ride in a car or visit someones home that smokes.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 10, 2007, 03:14:26 pm
Attention smokers:

Consider this. Imagine someone on the sidewalk picked their nose and flung their snot on you. For us non-smokers, it's the same thing getting stuck next to you in public.

Ah!  We have been joined by the truly righteous among us!  (takes hat off and bows down.)  

Rick  (pardon the sarcasm, but you are assuming  here that I am the jerk who is  going to be inconsiderate enough to subject you to my second-hand smoke, are you not?)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 10, 2007, 03:16:37 pm
I also am skeptical about just how dangerous second smoke would be to someone just passing by it on the street.  Bowling alleys and bars, perhaps...but just casually and briefly happening by a whiff of second hand smoke?  I don't know about that.  We are already routinely breathing in a lot of environmental toxins during our day to day existence.  I question whether the occasional 'passing by on the sidewalk' breaths would pose such a significant danger.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 10, 2007, 03:17:09 pm
Sorry about the format error in the previous post.  Only first paragraph was the quote.  Don't blame ChaplinGuy for my sarcasm.   Rick
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Dachshund on January 10, 2007, 03:25:18 pm
More importantly....is it okay for smokers to bareback?


Or is it bareback smokers?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 10, 2007, 03:32:22 pm
Does this mean you're gonna die soon? :)

I think this would be a case of using a double positive. LOL

-joseph
(who has never smoked)


I do have too much to live for---gotta make some choices and narrow it down. Think smoking oughta go first or barebacking????

Rick

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 10, 2007, 03:33:43 pm
Smoking.  You'll have the lung capacity to bareback much longer.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 03:34:25 pm
This is what I think about second hand smoke. If you don't like the smoke don't go into, bars, bowling alleys, restaurants, don't ride in a car or visit someones home that smokes.

RapidRod-

As a child, growing up with two adult chain smokers, I didn't have a choice but to breathe second hand smoke.  I hated going to school and having my clothes reek of cigarette smoke - and the kids teasing me.  Perhaps this is the reason, most, I have never picked up the habit.

And, though to some degree we can all change our environments to fit our likes/dislikes (the above situation excluded), we all share the same air - especially in enclosed unventillated enivonments.  I don't give a flying shit (thank you, Courtney Love and School House Rocks for the Expletives), if you choose to breathe polluted air, but you can damn well bet I'm going to assert my rights to not be subjected to something that I choose not to do.

By the way, one of the best things about California is that save a car, home, hotel room, or outside environment, I needn't worry about being subjected to smoke in any of the places you referenced.  

California is a GREAT Country!

:)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 03:43:02 pm
My dear philly-

how could you ask such a question?  People who smoke subject others to their habit - second hand smoke - which is much more dangerous than someone choosing to kill themselves by becoming grotesquely obese.

hrm.

-joseph
WHATEVER... I smoke out my window and rarely smoke around other.  Don't lecture to me you little fist fucking pig! :)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 03:45:38 pm
Yeah, I wonder how many of these holy roller non-smokers are out at the bath house spreading demon seed nightly.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 10, 2007, 03:48:14 pm
Joseph---I gotta say as a smoker I have no argument with what you are saying.  It just irks me though when people assume I am going to be inconsiderate enough to subject them to my 2nd hand smoke.  I dont do it in my own home. Just feels like another kind of pre-judgment.  I admire you folks who don't smoke.  I am just not therer yet.  (I used to admire straight guys too--I never did get there despite my most vallant efforts to be what was socially acceptable to my family and others who mattered in my life, sigh!!)

Hunter---Only problem for me is that I was planning on using the gum to quit smoking but I cant bareback and chew gum at the same time.  A real dilemma!

Rick
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 03:55:29 pm
Quote from: Strayboy74
snip

Well... guess we won't be getting married next week.  Pity.

Seriously though... I fully understand.  I hate ciggie smells on my Alexander McQueen but I digress.  I *HATE* chain smokers -- SO WHITE TRASH!  I'm more of a glamor smoker!  REALLY... reminds me of starlets of yore.

I will quit soon... honestly.  At my ripe age of 38 *cough* 41 it's not so fetching any longer.  Tastes fab with a Makers Mark Old Fashioned though.

I'm hoping one day that I can get so I just have one cigarette per week... you know, after a really nice dinner.  Guess that's where the cigar will come in, plus they're expensive and I'm just a classy sort of gal.

PS:  I just smoked a cigarette (out the window!!!)  I hate for my apartment to reek of cigarettes!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 03:56:22 pm
Don't lecture to me you little fist fucking, three-toed-toothless transexual faggot pig! :)

THAT HURT! :) LOL

God bless those expletives!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not lecturing people on what they should or shouldn't do.  I'm just glad that the choice has been removed politically for me in this state.  It makes things easier. :)

I don't care if people smoke.  I just choose not to... (the only way I've ever done pot is with brownies)

:)

I'm not passing judgement... believe me... I got HIV from getting fucked up the ass after being repeatedly told that without a condom I'd get it.  My fault? yeah.  Fuck it!

-joseph

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 03:59:25 pm
Oh... and I don't smoke pot.  Makes me anti-social and paranoid, but if I must I insist on using a bong.  I think joints (no filter you know) are much more harsh on one's lungs.

I'd rather have a percocet.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: anniebc on January 10, 2007, 04:06:02 pm
I started smoking in my late 20's after my last child was born..I have no idea why I just did, back then it was no big deal anyway.

I stopped in 2000 when I turned 54,  friends thought after my diagnosis in 2002 the stress would start me back again..it didn't, but in 2003 I started back again...again no excuses, just did.

My husband has never smoked and I have never smoked in front to him, or my kids when they were young and certainly not in front of my grand children.. I don't smoke in the house at all, I go down to one of the sheds when I want to smoke or out in the back porch when the grand kids are in bed.

Chaplinguy  I can understand a nonsmoker finding it hard to understand a smoker..but I say everyone to their own...those of us who enjoy a smoke don't run around telling you nonsmokers how disgusting we think you are because you don't smoke..so please don't do it to those of us who do...it's a choice we make..I made mine.

BTW...I think pacif smokers should buy their own anyway...just sayin'.. ;)

To all those who are thinking of giving up or have already started I wish you the best and hope you are doing it for YOU and not for those who are nagging you into it.

Hugs
Jan :-*
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: skeebo1969 on January 10, 2007, 04:11:28 pm


 
 I *HATE* chain smokers -- SO WHITE TRASH!  

 LMAO...  I don't chain smoke.  I always make sure one is completely out before I light the next one.  Not a chain if I break a link ;)

 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 04:26:20 pm
Where's Jack?

Quote
Pelosi bans smoking near House floor (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_go_co/congress_smoking)

By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 20 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Smokers may be one minority in Congress with even fewer rights than newly demoted Republicans. Now they're losing one of their last, cherished prerogatives — a smoke break in the ornate Speaker's Lobby just off the House floor.

New House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., announced a ban Wednesday, effective immediately.

"The days of smoke-filled rooms in the United States Capitol are over," Pelosi said. "Medical science has unquestionably established the dangerous effects of secondhand smoke, including an increased risk of cancer and respiratory diseases. I am a firm believer that Congress should lead by example."
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 04:29:35 pm
Where's Jack?


The United States will be such a wonderful place, when California takes it over!

LOL

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 10, 2007, 04:40:55 pm
When I so many stories about people who want to quit who can't I'm so happy I never started. I'm not sure what it is about me that growing up I never succumb to peer pressure. I suspect my resistance to peer pressure has to do being an incredibly introverted person. I grew up in the mountains of NC and cigarettes, skoal and chewing tobacco were everywhere. All the jocks chewed tobacco. Then when I went to college and came out it was the same with alcohol, marijuana and cocaine... all the cool people did it, all the "A" gays did it. I still get pressured by people to drink alcohol: try this wine... you won't even taste the alcohol in this mixed drink... why don't you drink, are you religious or something? Now I find out that these guys at the gym who have awesome physiques are on steroids.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 05:03:34 pm
Now I find out that these guys at the gym who have awesome physiques are on steroids.


Disheartening, isn't it?   I don't do it because I believe that the rewards of hard work are longer lasting.

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 10, 2007, 05:08:48 pm
*sigh*
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 10, 2007, 05:38:46 pm
Attention smokers:

Consider this. Imagine someone on the sidewalk picked their nose and flung their snot on you. For us non-smokers, it's the same thing getting stuck next to you in public.

(I will now recede in peace...)

You know, I asked my grandmother (who smoked like a chimney until the 1960s) if people bitched, whined, pissed and moaned about cigarette smoke then like they do now.

She said they didn't... except for complaints about clothes smelling smoky in bars, no one minded. 

Me, I smoke.  Like a chimney.  And if people wanna stay away from me because of it... that's cool. 

They might be killing me, but they're keeping me from killing you.  Remember that, people. 

Edited to Say: I actually like smoking, too.  I really don't want to quit.  I suppose I might want to at some point... but I just like the act of smoking. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 10, 2007, 05:47:06 pm
Studies have shown that quitting smoking is much more difficult than quitting heroin.

Just sayin...

Ann


It is.  I tried to quit smoking once to see if I could do it.

Nope.  I just decided to like it.

Quitting heroin?  Cakewalk by comparison.  Of course, I wasn't a hardcore junkie... but I was into heroin pretty damn deep.

But I can attest that those studies know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: antibody on January 10, 2007, 05:53:05 pm
i been smoking since i was 12. love it! but sadly my boyfriend does not and after about a year of my HIV diagnosis i quit. i used nicotine replacement. actually i never stoped. i use the gum at first but found the new cherry flavored Commit lozenge the best! i'm down to a few of the 2mg pieces  a day. i know i am still addicted to the nicotine but at this rate i dont care. it's much lower than i would consume if i were smoking.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 10, 2007, 05:54:48 pm
All this talking about it is making me wanna smoke.

Mmmm... nummy Camel treat!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 05:57:56 pm
Of course, I wasn't a hardcore junkie...

You're only a hard-core junkie if you make, "I can't believe I'm not a Junkie" armbands out of the tops of your tube socks to hide the track marks.

 ::)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 10, 2007, 06:00:27 pm
It is.  I tried to quit smoking once to see if I could do it.

Nope.  I just decided to like it.

Quitting heroin?  Cakewalk by comparison.  Of course, I wasn't a hardcore junkie... but I was into heroin pretty damn deep.

But I can attest that those studies know what they're talking about.

Of course, it might be a great deal harder to quit heroin if it was easily purchased in the checkout line of your local grocery store.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 10, 2007, 06:02:07 pm
Oh yeah.

That makes a huge difference, actually.

You wouldn't think so... but man... if dope was available at the 7-11, I'd be the next Nico.     ;D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Eldon on January 10, 2007, 06:27:10 pm
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/forfun_06/3338477911.jpg)


Interesting. There was an e-mail from POZ today about this.






"What can I notice right now that makes me smile?"
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: racingmind on January 10, 2007, 06:29:44 pm
hmm damn we've got quite a volatile thread going on here....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 10, 2007, 07:05:43 pm
I'm waiting for the big boom to watch CA fall into the water.  :D I use to live in LA County and we had so much smog that it looked like you were in a bar. Cigarette smoke doesn't hurt my eyes half as much as smog does.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 10, 2007, 07:28:00 pm
"Statistics 101: Correlation is not causation.

Because a higher percentage of people with HIV smoke doesn't mean smoking causes HIV or HIV causes smoking. It does mean there is some kind of relationship between people who smoke and people who have HIV if the originally quoted statistic is even valid. I'm curious as to the nature of that relationship."  Gymrat
......................
Hey Thanks for the Statistics 101 lesson.. Really I have forgotten everything I learned in that course.!!!
If you want my opinion, the relationship is in the risk taking. ( We know smoking is bad for us....but do it cause it feels good....as does barebacking.) I will go further and say if you look at the profile of smokers....there might be some clues there.  Maybe.
Oh, and Tim, I had to learn to smoke also, when I went into the Peace Corps, because the people in the country where I was  used cigarettes as tokens of friendship and comraderie. Giving them....lighting up...etc.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 10, 2007, 07:47:17 pm
I'm waiting for the big boom to watch CA fall into the water.  :D

And I'm prepared with my Shelley Winters routine! 
Title: smoking impacts our immune systems
Post by: megasept on January 10, 2007, 07:51:40 pm
I am not telling anyone here to quit, and certainly not how to do so. But remember. having two cancers is much worse than one. Moreover, there is no question smoking negatively impacts the immune system long before it kills someone off. It's not cocaine and it's not heroin. So we can quit with willpower alone. Other methods might make that easier, like hypnosis.  8) -megasept
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 10, 2007, 11:25:30 pm
Not that anyone is really prosecuting here, but in my defence I'll say that I'm a very apologetic smoker. Anyone at the dinner table (if my friends and I are out at a restaurant that allows smoking), or the next dinner table for that matter, has the power of veto.

I've been smoking for half my life exactly, 17 years. Have tried to quit several times. But, as I wrote in a post recently, I associate cigarettes with drinks (cocktails, if that sounds better) and with writing. Since I don't see myself quitting either of those activities anytime soon, I doubt I'll give up my smoking.

I have cut back, though, from a pack a day to 5 or 6 a day. More out of "vanity" than anything else. Smoking is hell on the facial epidermis.  ::)

And echoing Tim's remarks (and other posters' as well) about depression, stress, and self-medicating.

Jay
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aztecan on January 10, 2007, 11:34:25 pm
Oh Lordy Joseph, now I have this image of you in chiffon!  :o EEEP!

Some interesting points here. One thing I would like to clear up, though. I didn't find myself living with the bug through reckless behavior.

Back in those days, what is now called barebacking wasn't considered reckless because we didn't know HIV existed. Ah, those were the days. I guess, technically, we could call them my reckless days of youth.

What we really need is some good sex education. Too many of those heterosexuals are still barebacking, judging from all the women i see getting ready to drop another one.

That said, wasn't it President, er, I mean Gov. Arnie of California who used to frequent the cigar bars of L.A.?

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 10, 2007, 11:53:18 pm
Posted without permission.

I look at my Virginia Slims Menthol Lights as my anti-alzheimers treatment.  I know they're kind of girlie, but so am I. Anyway, here is something I'm going to "cut and paste" without permission.  Very thought provoking.

"Does nicotine have beneficial effects in the treatment of certain diseases?Birtwistle J, Hall K.
University of Southampton, Department of Psychiatry, Royal South Hants Hospital.

Although tobacco smoking has long been associated with diseases of the lungs and cardiovascular system, numerous studies have demonstrated a negative association between tobacco smoking and ulcerative colitis, and the neurodegenerative diseases, Alzheimer's disease (AD) and Parkinson's disease (PD). The evidence suggests that nicotine--the main pharmacologically active ingredient of tobacco--appears to be responsible for this effect. Pure nicotine has no known carcinogenic properties and can be administered in numerous ways including transdermal patches and tablets. As a therapeutic agent, its association with tobacco can be likened to morphine and opium smoking. There is ample clinical evidence to suggest that nicotine could be beneficial in the treatment of some patients with diseases. Pharmacologically, nicotine acts on cholinergic (nicotinic-specific) receptors which are depleted in AD and PD. Nicotinic receptors also interact closely with several neurotransmitters including dopamine, which is implicated in both PD and Gilles de la Tourettes's syndrome. There is no doubt that tobacco smoking can be harmful and no-one should be encouraged to smoke. However, although nicotine has many harmful side-effects, it may have therapeutic value or at the very least be a useful tool for future drug development."

source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9006184&dopt=Citation

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: texasguy on January 10, 2007, 11:57:29 pm
Like Joseph, I had two smoking parents, and as a kid always hated it.  I've never had a cigarette in my life.  When I was younger and pressured to take a "social toke" on a joint to "fit in", I wouldn't even do that.  So began my long history of someone who didn't quite fit in.  But I digress.  Interestingly though, just about all my gay friends smoke.  I'm talking 90% of them.  I've learned to cope with that socially because I had to.  But I will have to admit, whether it be a trick for the night, a boyfriend, or a lover; smoking is a deal breaker for me.  Not gonna happen.  Not in my bed, my house, or my car.  That's just me.  Just sayin'........

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 11, 2007, 12:06:53 am
Smoking as a deal-breaker: my mind jumped immediately to Sex and the City, season three. Carrie meets Aidan, for whom her smoking is a deal-breaker. She quits for him. Over the next season, her smoking behind his back becomes an allegory for her cheating with Mr. Big.

Sorry folks, I have a problem besides smoking: I don't see things as real unless I can relate them to a novel, a story, a poem, a song, a TV show... Very hard to quit that habit; been trying for years.

And, oh dear yes, the humiliation of a cute guy not wanting to kiss me because of my smoker's breath. (I brushed my teeth; like I said, very apolegetic smoker.)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: texasguy on January 11, 2007, 12:20:30 am
Well Jay, when I say a deal breaker, I would never be so rude as to tell someone directly that's why I'm not interested.  I would probably just excuse myself, saunter back to my fave bartender, and down another Vodka and diet Seven-UP cocktail.  Which, I might add, I have heard is a deal breaker for other people.  Although I'm not sure if they are talking about my penchant for good Vodka with a diet mixer, or the fact of how many I tend to have at one sitting.  Again I digress, not thread hijacking here....back to smoking.... :)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: stevevaboy on January 11, 2007, 01:05:37 am
I hate cigarrette smoke!  Yes, I smoked many cigs at an early age and thank the Gods often that I quit early on.  I moved from Phillip Morris country, Virginia, to smoke-free country, California, and love most of their anti-smoking efforts.  Actually, I could not care less what one does to ones own body, but only as long as I don't have to breath it or smell it.  I thought the "anti-smoking Nazis" out here had probably gone too far when they started banning smoking on all of the beaches, but then I realized I'd overlooked one aspect of smoking that drives me crazy - one of my biggest pet-peeves... YOUR FREAKING NASTY CIGARRETTE BUTTS!!!!!  For those of you who treat the world as your ash tray you deserve all of the ill contempt that society can dish out to you!  You're littering - plain and simple!  Eat the damn things, stick them up your ass, but DON'T toss them about like they're invisible.

That said, and I can come down from my soap-box now, I can understand why anyone who's stressed out, HIV+ or otherwise, would smoke to calm themselves.  We all have our "medications", if you will.  More power to you if that's your choice.

Oh, and to folks who attempt to use the tax revenue of cigs to justify their "good" to our economy - REALLY!?!?  That "good" is easily whiped out each year by the cost to our healthcare system - please think before you make such statements!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:34:29 am
Of course, it might be a great deal harder to quit heroin if it was easily purchased in the checkout line of your local grocery store.

You've obviously not been to North Philly
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:43:00 am
Quote from: stevevaboy
Oh, and to folks who attempt to use the tax revenue of cigs to justify their "good" to our economy - REALLY!?!?  That "good" is easily whiped out each year by the cost to our healthcare system - please think before you make such statements!

Are you obese?  I'd say that's just as bad.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: joemutt on January 11, 2007, 03:53:39 am
Fumare e una cattiva abitudine ma qui da noi e perfetto?
(My Berlitz Italian taught me this)
Smoking is a bad habit but who among us is perfect?

I kicked it 4 years ago, cold turkey, glad I'm rid of it,
cannot stand the smell anymore,
but ok, you gotta do what you gotta do
just dont blow smoke in my face (or up my ass for that matter)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: cubbybear on January 11, 2007, 04:26:45 am
I had a similar experience to Joseph.  I grew up in a house of chain smoking parents (who god rest their souls both passed on from lung cancer.).  I have never smoked in my life, my clothes used to smell of cigarettes when I was a kid, and there were always dirty ashtrays on tables in my family home.  I spent too many years passive smoking and smelling like an ashtray, and it was enough to make sure I never picked up a single cigarette. 

If I see a hot guy, and he suddenly lights up a cigarette, it's an instant turn off for me and I'll forget any lusty thoughts I had for him pre-lighting one up.  It's a deal breaker.

Having said that, each to their own, I don't care what you do to your lungs or what you spend your money on... however, I'd just rather die by my own doing, and not someone elses 2nd hand smoke.  Oh wait.. I am dying by my own doing because I was an irresponsible whore.. Doh! 

Either way, each to their own.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 11, 2007, 05:10:38 am
I also am skeptical about just how dangerous second smoke would be to someone just passing by it on the street.

This one cracks me up! Honestly!

Don't they realise what's coming out of the exhaust pipes of every vehicle driving down the street? Don’t they know city air is polluted air? That BIG city air is a soup of deadly toxins they are breathing day and night?

Oh yah, everybody wants to rule the world.

Now if you still insist on breathing my second hand smoke, I’m gonna have to start charging you a user fee.  ;)

Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Gary85741 on January 11, 2007, 08:09:17 am

     As was referenced in an earlier post here, there has been some correlation found between smokers and the latter, or non-, onset of Alzheimer's.  Of course I'm not suggesting anyone take up smoking.

     Whatever in the world happened to live and let live?  Especially for those of us in a sexual minority who have felt the disapproval of society (if we're old enough to remember how prevalent that was.)

     Tell ya what...maybe I'll consider smoking cessation when some things that bother ME about people stop, such as:
--  these loud 'chopper' motorcycles that rattle windows as they go by
--  people cranking out babies every other year (which my property taxes have to support via their schooling, even though I've no children)
--  unsupervised children running wild in restaurants, stores, airplanes, etc. (Pet peeve #2!!!)
--  people whose actions and words do not align, eg., game players. (Pet peeve #1!!!)
--  junk mail and telemarketers
--  raunchy garbage on TV and in movies

     Get my point??

Gary
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 09:54:51 am
Hiv people who smoke-should STOP!!!!!! >:( Dont you people know you are killing yourseleves and people who don't smoke? Smoking has destroyed my mother who has lung disease in michigan. Caused from smoking. I am sick of it!!!! I am a staunch anti-smoking advocate in northern california. The bottom line is- hiv and smoking are a bad mix.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: squareman on January 11, 2007, 10:13:19 am
I was glad to see a post on this, as I have always wondered why anyone with HIV or any other serious disease would continue such reckless behavior. (Not casting stones, as I recognize it's my reckless behavior that, even if a non-smoker, got me here.)

That being said, I am curious to know if smokers recognize the impact that they have on those around them. I know that some are more conscious of their habit than others, but I become frustrated when I have to dodge smokers standing outside my building (who seem to form a herd that produces a disgusting cloud around them). And the ones that light up on the escaltors before we even get out of the subway ... don't get me started (have screamed at a few for such rude behavior).

Now that I think about it, smoking in public should be lumped together with HIV - which is criminalized in many states if you knowingly spread it. I'd back a law banning smoking in all public places, given that it directly spreads deadly toxins to those around you without their consent.

Anyone out there considering quitting - do it! If not for yourself (best reason), do it for the people who have to walk in your cancer-causing wake every day.



I can imagine you don't like being around smokers but do not exagerate. If you want to ban people smoking outside because of the health of the non smoking passers by it is best to ban all car traffic first which causes you a and all of us a lot more health trouble than some second hand smoke. It's a good thing smokers these days are not smoking in restaurants and public buildings anymore but some tolerance by non smokers is essential because too many of them think they will suddenly become healthy if noone even on the streets smokes anymore, which is a huge illusion, the simple air you breath by car, heating and factory pollution will kill you 1 million times faster.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 10:42:53 am
I was reading the AIDSmeds article on higher rates of lung cancer for people with HIV and I was surprised that "cigarette smoking is very common among HIV-positive people in the U.S. – one analysis indicated that 60% to 80% of those living with the virus are smokers (compared to smoking rates of 20% to 30% in the general population)" I've never smoked. Are there are lot of people on this forum who do? For those who smoke did you start before or after your diagnosis? I wonder why there is a correlation between HIV infection and smoking.


I didnt read all the posts as I jumped into this late...

My take is that a majority of us engage in all types of high risk activity and this correlates to both. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 10:45:01 am
just dont blow smoke in my face (or up my ass for that matter)

Really!  In my time, I've had so much smoke blown up my ass that the last time I farted, three Indians showed up.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 11:09:48 am
Really!  In my time, I've had so much smoke blown up my ass that the last time I farted, three Indians showed up.

ROFLMAO

OMG

TOO FUCKING FUNNY!!!!

Thanks man... THAT was priceless.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: stevevaboy on January 11, 2007, 11:27:37 am
"Are you obese?  I'd say that's just as bad."

NO, I'm not obese and I agree obesity does cost this country dearly - however, that's not the subject bud.  Now go smoke your cigarrette.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 11:31:43 am
smoking kills non smokers. dont get in my face or you might pay the price.    >:(
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 11:37:52 am
smokers are rude and arrogant. >:( they kill non smokers-proven fact by professionals. you can go ahead and slowly kill yourself-just do not invade my air space when you are around me.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 11:38:26 am
Lots of things kill non smokers..... 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 11:39:45 am
smokers are rude and arrogant. >:( they kill non smokers-proven fact by professionals. you can go ahead and slowly kill yourself-just do not invade my air space when you are around me.

WOW newbie...Way to come out
(http://www.sfbappa.org/SF29.images/Sports%20Action/AE%204sat2.jpg)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 11:40:30 am
Lots of things kill non smokers..... 

Like smokers who find they've had enough of the attitude.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 11:42:32 am
Like smokers who find they've had enough of the attitude.

You my sir are en fuego this morning.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 11:46:49 am
  8)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 11:50:13 am
"Are you obese?  I'd say that's just as bad."

NO, I'm not obese and I agree obesity does cost this country dearly - however, that's not the subject bud.  Now go smoke your cigarrette.

Nice deflection FAT BOY!!! :)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 11:51:26 am
Quote from: Scott
smokers are rude and arrogant.

I resent that comment.  Arrogant, yes... but not rude.  I went to finishing school and was a debutante.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 11:51:45 am
i got your "ATTITUDE" comment. your the one who will be kicked off here. anyone who defends smokers aint worth a pile of dog crap.  >:(
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 11:54:29 am
i got your "ATTITUDE" comment. your the one who will be kicked off here. anyone who defends smokers aint worth a pile of dog crap.  >:(

Twofires is that you?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 11:56:25 am
fyi-phillygirl :D hahahahahaha-smokers are arrogant and rude in california. probably because they cant smoke in bars and restaurants. philly is still living in the middle ages and it needs to start caring about peoples health.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:13:30 pm
Twofires is that you?

LOL!  Really.  They may not share smoking, but they do share flame.



::Adds Scott to his Buddy List::
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 12:14:42 pm
Ah, yes... the Philly jokes.  NOW who's the elitist schmuck?

California is chock full of tired wannabes.  Anyway, I just moved here... I'm a New Yorker through and through and we all think of California as positively parochial.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 12:20:09 pm
I hear most of you in philly eat out of garbage cans. LOL haahahaha :D time for you to crawl back in yours. ROTFLMFAO we in california hate new yorkers. philly. new york. all the same low life trash to me.  ;D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:24:36 pm
I just think that Gary made a good point in post #103.  There are accomodations and compromises that just have to be made as a part of society. 

smoking kills non smokers. dont get in my face or you might pay the price.    >:(


Bring it!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Peter Staley on January 11, 2007, 12:27:18 pm
philly267 AND Scott94596:

end this now.  You've both been warned.  Keep it up, and you'll both get TOs.

Peter
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 12:28:17 pm
no way in hell do i compromise anything, especially when it comes to my health. >:( already dealing with aids. dont need to be dealing with jerks who are smokers. you either are one or have been one. shame on you for supporting a disgusting health habit.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 11, 2007, 12:30:21 pm
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l153/aycm8620/ohnohedidnt-2.jpg)

oh no he did not just post again after being warned
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:31:22 pm
Yes, well your anger is bringing my t-cells down by the minute.  


I'm not necessarily supporting a habit.  I'm supporting cooperative coexistence.


(And you must have compromised something somewhere along the way...else you wouldn't be here, eh?)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 12:33:09 pm
This is a job for:

(http://www.strayboy.com/dlm.jpg)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ChaplinGuy on January 11, 2007, 12:33:43 pm
I can imagine you don't like being around smokers but do not exagerate. If you want to ban people smoking outside because of the health of the non smoking passers by it is best to ban all car traffic first which causes you a and all of us a lot more health trouble than some second hand smoke. It's a good thing smokers these days are not smoking in restaurants and public buildings anymore but some tolerance by non smokers is essential because too many of them think they will suddenly become healthy if noone even on the streets smokes anymore, which is a huge illusion, the simple air you breath by car, heating and factory pollution will kill you 1 million times faster.

Several people have mentioned the issue of other emissions in this debate, namely automotive. It's a valid point, and one that I've thought about a lot before. What's not been said, however, is that they do in fact aggressively regulate emissions from automobiles for the very reason that they are known toxins. In California, for example, you cannot buy or manufacture a diesel vehicles unless it meets a 99% emissions-free clean air test (which no U.S. manufacturer, including DaimlerChrysler or Volkswagen has been able to achieve).

In addition, studies have shown that cigarettes are, in fact, more harmful than the commons auto emissions - in some cases by up to 10 times more.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6312

Putting the science aside, I think the key thing for smokers to take away from this issue is respecting those whom your own personal choices impact. Our individual rights end where other people's rights begin, and many individuals choose not to smoke because of the damage it does. That means that they have a right to protect themselves, including preventing your behavior and choices from overriding their decision.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:38:56 pm
Scott,

You can also feel free to leave messages like this out of my PM box:

then FUCK OFF



kthxbye!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: swede_dish on January 11, 2007, 12:44:36 pm
Sounds like someone needs to dissmount thier high horse. I am quiting smoking but I will never judge someone who does.  (cough..scott...scott)

remember....


He who has not sinned....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: gatortony on January 11, 2007, 12:45:42 pm
I've smoked since I was 16 (dinosaurs roamed the Earth) and am sad to report my diagnosis only served to "upgrade" me from mediums to the full on cowboy killers. Have been on Wellbutrin for depression.  Strangely, this has done absolutely nothing to curb my desire for cigarettes.  Guess you have to want it for the magic bupropion gods to smile down and rip the pack out of your hands.  I truly do feel the sting of the social stigma attached to being a smoker, especially as I work on a college campus with strictly enforced smoking regulations and a freshman crop of kids raised on the Truth campaign who take pleasure in looking at me and coughing.  I make it a point not to smoke near people, in their home or car or anyplace my personal choice of poison will anger the good people. 

Smoking is my most powerful addiction:  Have given up more drugs than Janis Joplin could do in 10 years yet find it impossible to even want to quit the Marlboros.  Insouciance?  Devil may care?  Not sure what drives me to keep on puffing, especially in light of recent discoveries.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 12:46:38 pm
i am going to express what i feel about smokers and smoking. i dont give a rats ass if you others agree or not.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:47:08 pm
And yes, Chaplin Guy, to a point.  But I think removing smoking from inside restaurants & such is fair enough.  When it gets to the point that people are chastised for smoking in open air areas or in their own homes, I think it is getting into an overly invasive area.  Because as Gary said in #103, there are points where you just have to accept the existence of some things, people, habits etc that you don't particularly like- as part of the price for comingling in the world.  You mentioned HIV way earlier on.  There are many in the world that would use that very logic to argue why we should all be removed from society...because they see our existence as an infringment on how they believe the perfect world should be.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 12:49:24 pm
LIKE I SAID BEFORE-YOU SMOKERS BETTER STAY AWAY FROM ME.  >:(
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: swede_dish on January 11, 2007, 12:49:24 pm
Scott....we can express ours views on assholes....just like you can express your views on smokers.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:53:53 pm
LIKE I SAID BEFORE-YOU SMOKERS BETTER STAY AWAY FROM ME.  >:(


Wow.  Somebody neds a cigarette.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Peter Staley on January 11, 2007, 12:55:30 pm
Swede -- you've been warned as well.  Will everyone please return to a more civilized discourse, please?

Peter
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 12:58:26 pm
Swede -- you've been warned as well.  Will everyone please return to a more civilized discourse, please?

Peter

Yeah!  We're having a great discussion about nuggets over in the Porn thread!   :D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 11, 2007, 01:05:30 pm
Just put on kd lang's Drag album (nearly ten years old, wow). Now playing is track #4, "My Last Cigarette."

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 01:07:36 pm
Yeah!  We're having a great discussion about nuggets over in the Porn thread!   :D

Very wholesome, and chocked full of goodies.

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: gatortony on January 11, 2007, 01:22:18 pm
Listening to a song by The Smiths:
"What she said, I smoke, because I'm hoping for an early death and I need to cling to something".

Guess that's my story.  Sad but true... 

Was outside (far away from people) having my noonday cig and thought of this thread and how this makes me a fag (by british standards) hag.  Anything for a laugh, I guess.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:23:37 pm
le sigh
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 01:25:48 pm
I'm ready to go have one as well... and i QUIT smoking.

<-- who gets BOTH sides of the issue.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:26:04 pm
philly267 AND Scott94596:

end this now.  You've both been warned.  Keep it up, and you'll both get TOs.

Peter

::noted::

though in fairness I don't think I began the insults

::ignore function utilized::
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Peter Staley on January 11, 2007, 01:33:55 pm
Philly -- we really don't care who starts things.  We issue warnings and TOs because of flame wars, both to those that start one, and to those that respond to them in kind.

Peter
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 01:39:43 pm
Philly -- we really don't care who starts things.  We issue warnings and TOs because of flame wars, both to those that start one, and to those that respond to them in kind.

Peter

Peter smells like girly things. :)

LOL

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:40:48 pm
BAN
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 11, 2007, 01:47:14 pm
Moved (by me) to here:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=a29a8133d891989c5f6551f6cf281939&topic=7758.0
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 01:49:49 pm
fyi- i was attacked on here for expressing the bad health habits of smoking.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 01:53:43 pm
No one attacked you Scotty.  Re-read the thread.  You started with your mom, then went straight to your tirade on others and to step up and pay the price then straight to calling all smokers RUDE and ARROGANT, with NO ONE posting in between your posts.  So no you were not attacked.

Sit back, relax, dont have a smoke.

How is it that you got here my friend?  We care to hear more of your story.

Edited to add... WOW, i just looked up and saw all of AIDSMEDS powers that be LOOKING DOWN ON ME!  Holy shit everyone is here!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 01:56:42 pm
Plus he just registered at 9am and within 10 post began attacking me.  Yet somehow I'm to blame for not turning the other cheek and rolling over like a limp noodle.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 02:01:47 pm
Philly I am sensing there is MORE to this story.

Scott showed up right ( maybe 20 minutes) after twofires disappeared and with the same type of shall we call it "dialogue".  I sense a conspiracy, but I do believe the wonderful CSI-HIV team is on the scene!

And to all of you watching us....
(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/Corbis/DGT083/42-16016361.jpg)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 02:02:53 pm
Plus he just registered at 9am and within 10 post began attacking me.  Yet somehow I'm to blame for not turning the other cheek and rolling over like a limp noodle.

That's how I was feeling.  I didn't want a war, but I felt like several of us were under undue attack.


Only 10 posts?


Holy Smokes!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 02:07:06 pm
The moderator should be able to trace his IP then.  Isn't that against the TOS for the forum... duplicate usernames for the purpose of flaming?

Quote
Only one user name is permitted per member. The user name you select upon registering for the Forums should be the user name you remain with throughout your participation in the Forums. Maintaining more than one user name is a violation of these Terms of Membership and is subject to automatic removal from the Forums, locking of the multiple accounts (including the original account), and banning to prevent future registration.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 02:08:56 pm
Yeah....but twofires didn't present himself to be...um....''anti-smoking'', shall we say? 


EDITED TO SAY:  Take a reread through some of twofires' posts from before to see what I mean.  He was declaring a need for ''buds'' on one of his threads.   Not the BFF kind.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Scott94596 on January 11, 2007, 02:10:12 pm
u all better fuck off >:(
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 02:10:53 pm
Have any of you bothered to read the posting guidelines in the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=277.0) namely:

Quote
If you are having problems with another forum member, you have two options. One, you can use the Report to Moderator link found at the bottom of any post. Two, you can put that forum member on Ignore by using the link that appears at the bottom of the user information next to their post. You can unignore a member by going into your profile and taking them off the ignore list.

I also recommend you all read through the Time Out Policy. (http://X) There are several of you in this thread who are very close to getting a Time Out.

AC Knock it off with the sarcastic pictures already. It's getting old fast.

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 02:11:02 pm
Yeah....but twofires didn't present himself to be...um....''anti-smoking'', shall we say? 

I DEMAND DNA SAMPLES FROM EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 02:12:01 pm
Read ann's post....

This guy knows when to cut and run! (unlike Bush)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 02:13:42 pm
OK Scott, that's enough. I'm giving you a Time Out. You've been repeatedly warned, not only in this thread, but in private correspondence with the main person who runs these forums.

See you in a week - I hope you learn some manners in the mean time. Or do you think it's polite to walk up to a bunch of strangers and start hurling abuse around?

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 02:19:39 pm

This is just a friendly warning to anyone who thinks it would be a good idea to carry on what Scott started.

DON'T!

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 02:23:14 pm

And another thing - if any of you have suspicions about the identity of a new poster, please talk to me via PM. In this case Scott is NOT twofires - if he were he would have been gone before he even got started, ok? Give us some credit please!

Ann
(who is trying to be patient!)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 02:26:49 pm
Now..... back to what I was saying...

I think that the correlation is due to the fact alot of us (not all of us mind you) have what I would call "high risk" personalities.  Enjoy engaging in lots of different stimulus seeking adventures in everyday life.  At one time, this may have been smoking or sex or drugs or whatever.  But i think it has to do with that.

(The above is in reference to what the poster ORIGINALLY ASKED)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 11, 2007, 02:28:01 pm
And another thing - if any of you have suspicions about the identity of a new poster, please talk to me via PM. In this case Scott is NOT twofires - if he were he would have been gone before he even got started, ok? Give us some credit please!

Ann
(who is trying to be patient!)


Sorry Ann.... id post a pic of a dog with its tail between its legs but I think a description is my best bet right now.  You KNOW i dont like trying your patience.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Peter Staley on January 11, 2007, 02:31:10 pm
FYI -- Scott continued to abuse the moderators via email, and has been permanently banned.

Good riddance.

Peter
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 02:55:43 pm
From New to Permanent Ban in 11 posts.  That's surely some kind of record.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: sjcolorwing on January 11, 2007, 03:04:10 pm
"The hotest places in hell are reserved for those who in a time of need did nothing."   Dante     Live is rough,  I have quit many times.  Cold turkey in a support group with health adviser, went 5yrs saying I'll never go through that hell again, quiting was rough.  Meeting a old friend out door cafe beautiful perfect summer day one drink and I bummed a cig.  Next long successful ride is current, used mega doses of wellbutrin and patch for a while  till over what I though was a hump 30 days or so.  I had to ask card playing friends to smoke joints out side because I was getting high from them and that one joint by being at the table.  I tend to lock up on grass, so! All rules for hard core addiction apply to heavy and long term smokers.   On rare occasion I have the urge even after 4yrs now.  I herd a psyc say one time, for drugs and alcohol 10 yrs clean before she would consider having it really licked. Knowing how much I hate being a slave to it, i hate to mention my achievement as I also know how easy it can be to fall back.  Even almost feel its bad luck to put this out there.  But hope people try still. best of luck it dose smell,                   sjcolorwing ::) ???
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Andy Velez on January 11, 2007, 03:11:31 pm
Yes, I think it is a record. It just shows how things can be accomplished when someone is really focused.

Now, there we were having an interesting conversation about smoking and not smoking, I went out to buy some groceries and jeezus, I come back and the place has gone nuclear.

Whew!

Now this is genteel by comparison to all of that. I remember being very "sophisticated," and sitting in the schoolyard during lunch, puffing away on a Viceroy, and seeing the afternoon paper headline that the king of England had died. I don't know if he was a smoker. In any case, I was too busy like I said, being sophisticated.

About 20 years ago my then-10 year old son looked at me intently as I lit up and asked, "Do you want to die?" I was so embarassed that I stopped -- and then switched to smoking when he wasn't around.

Can't remember the last time I had a cigarette. I'd still love having one after a good meal or after a ....good meal. Except they make me cough up what's left of my brains.

So I have a couple of cartons of unopened Galoises Blonde sitting in the kitchen hutch. I like knowing they're there, like the promise of a good time -- sometime but not today.

For the timebeing the price of the good time is just too high. And then there is my vigilant son, who's on my case enough about other stuff without giving him more to work on his po' ol' pop.

I did enjoy being sophisticated.
 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Boo Radley on January 11, 2007, 03:22:00 pm
FYI -- Scott continued to abuse the moderators via email, and has been permanently banned.

Dammit!   I was hoping to set up a date with him since I'm a non-tobacco-smoker too.  They're so hard to find.

AIDSmeds once again tramples 1st amendment rights!!  (that is a JOKE!!!!) [maybe inappropriate but at least I didn't write fuck]

Boo
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 04:24:23 pm
This thread would not be complete without this:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_it3btjwmzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_it3btjwmzo)




Aaaah....there it is.....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: stevevaboy on January 11, 2007, 04:55:12 pm
Nice deflection FAT BOY!!! :)

Oh come now!  Name calling???  Philly is such a cool city, please do it justice... and BTW, you'd pay to have my bod - made all the hotter and buffer by the fact that I DON'T SMOKE!!!!

Soooo, nahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fondeveau on January 11, 2007, 05:05:17 pm
Gee, whiz - go to work and see  how much fun everyone is having without me!  Well, Today is Day 2 following my quit date....going well...recommending Chantix to several friends to help quit...enduring much teasing by men who wish to satisfy my oral cravings....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Boo Radley on January 11, 2007, 05:23:07 pm
Quote from: philly267
Nice deflection FAT BOY!!!

Oh come now!  Name calling???  Philly is such a cool city, please do it justice... and BTW, you'd pay to have my bod - made all the hotter and buffer by the fact that I DON'T SMOKE!!!!

Soooo, nahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!   ;D

Children, children, can we all take a Time Out? 

steve, philly's original valid example of obesity as a nationwide medical problem in response to your valid point about the cost of healthcare for smokers wasn't rude.  It was simply a counterpoint.

I guess you don't know him well enough to realize "FAT BOY" was said in jest, or it reads that way to me.   As a fat non-smoker I of all people should be greatly slighted!

We're a wild and varied group here and it takes a while to figure out who the harmless but goofy people are.  What may appear to be an insult is not intended to be at all.  We just like to joke around.

Boo,
the Henry Clay wannabe of AIDSmeds
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 05:50:44 pm


O Henry!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ariesguy2007 on January 11, 2007, 06:02:26 pm
my view on smoking? if you smoke, you got to be able to face the consequences that come with the addiction(cancer, copd, emphysema etc.). and please smokers-be considerate of non smokers, as secondhand kills and that is a proven fact.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 11, 2007, 06:07:47 pm
hmm, I know people that don't smoke that have died of COPD, Cancer and emphysema.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 06:08:57 pm
hmm, I know people that don't smoke that have died of COPD, Cancer and emphysema.

WELL THAT'LL LEARN 'EM!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ariesguy2007 on January 11, 2007, 06:15:18 pm
hey rapidrod- they must be in a very small minority. why is that smokers or people who support smoking always have to answer back and start a fight, without having any facts to back up their statement? amazing.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: swede_dish on January 11, 2007, 06:19:29 pm
My auntie has lung cancer and she has never smoked.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 11, 2007, 06:23:52 pm
DAY 2 FOR ME..
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ariesguy2007 on January 11, 2007, 06:30:59 pm
people who get lung cancer and never smoke and in a very small minority. too small to even count. too many people here that defend smoking and smokers. it really is sad.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 06:35:10 pm
hey rapidrod- they must be in a very small minority. why is that smokers or people who support smoking always have to answer back and start a fight, without having any facts to back up their statement? amazing.

I don't see that offering another perspective is automatically 'starting a fight'. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 06:40:56 pm
Actually Philly's gotten a bit trendy lately, as long as you avoid North Philly which is bombed out like Fallujah.  Anyway, I lived in about the most trendy place in the US (NYC) for +15 years and I need some respite, but not to much.  Philly *IS* still the 5th largest metropolitan area in the US, so take that you flunkies.  Plus I still have an apartment in NYC so I can traipse up there whenever I feel like it -- it's only 1.25 hour train ride away.

The fags here, however, are filthy.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 11, 2007, 06:43:59 pm
hey rapidrod- they must be in a very small minority. why is that smokers or people who support smoking always have to answer back and start a fight, without having any facts to back up their statement? amazing.
I don't understand, you just registered at 1756 EST and by 18:15 you're are throwing out accusations. I'm not going to go through this again tonight.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 11, 2007, 06:43:59 pm
DAY 2 FOR ME..

Counting days helps I think
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 11, 2007, 06:45:19 pm
people who get lung cancer and never smoke and in a very small minority. too small to even count.

I think Christopher Reeves' wife was a non smoker who had cancer but someone told me she was a lounge singer in smoky clubs. I didn't bother to do more research. Was she a singer?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Nadine on January 11, 2007, 06:46:23 pm
I'm not going to go through this again tonight.

I was thinking the same thing...here we go again tonight!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 11, 2007, 06:46:38 pm
Laura Bush sneaks Kools from Secret Service member when out of range of the TV cameras and reporters.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 06:50:55 pm
God, I love smoking... crack.  ;D

Just thought I'd share.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 11, 2007, 07:15:02 pm
people who get lung cancer and never smoke and in a very small minority. too small to even count. too many people here that defend smoking and smokers. it really is sad.

This is factually incorrect. Just some very basic google research shows: Ten percent of 170,000 -- that's 17,000, hardly a number too small to count -- annual cases of lung cancer in the US occur in non-smokers. Another source puts the %age as a range, 10 to 15%.

And second-hand smoke: yep, it does pose a real risk -- apparently 3,000 annual deaths (not occurrences) from lung cancer are attributable to second-hand smoke. Usually when the person has been living with someone who smokes heavily.

Jay
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 11, 2007, 07:16:01 pm
I remember my great grandmother.  She loved her Winston's.  I can't remember ever seeing her without one dangling from her lips.  She died a a number of years ago.  It was a smoking related death.  She had just finished canning her pickles and was carrying them down to the basement.  Her cigarette fell out of her mouth, she lost her balance and fell down the stairs.  Seems she broke a hip.  She died from shock a few days later.  She was 102 years old.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 07:28:17 pm
EVERYONE...

This is a general warning. If we have a repeat of what went on in this thread earlier today, ALL INVOLVED will be given a Time Out. I'm NOT kidding.

If you are unsure whether what you want to post will earn you a time out, DON'T post it. Simple as that.

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 07:30:07 pm
Yes, lydgate, that is what I was trying to get at earlier.  Close proximity over time to concentrated second hand smoke can likely cause problems.  I just think all the hollering about occasionally passing by some smoke in public is, well...blown out of proportion.

Barto:  great story.  I laughed so hard, I started coughing!   ;)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Gambit39 on January 11, 2007, 07:36:50 pm
I have no problem with polite social smokers that are considerate of others. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the majority of them. I commute through the canyons in Los Angeles and hardly a day goes by where I don't see some smoker throw their lit cigarette out the window. Not only do they do this on the streets, public beaches, etc...but they do it in areas where signs specifically warn about fire danger because of the dry brush.

On a more personal note, I will occasionally date lite smokers but stay away from the pack a day type. Nothing kills the mood more than tasting a mouth that has just smoked[/shadow][/shadow]. So those of you smokers who date non smokers, please remember to brush your teeth and gargle first. Doubt this news will deter any bitter, hardcore, "rebel" smokers from lighting up any more or less than they do now.  But do keep it in mind next time you have a date with a non smoker.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 11, 2007, 07:45:14 pm
Beware of studies.  Correlation does not always equal causation.



Ice cream sales and the number of shark attacks on swimmers are correlated.
Skirt lengths and stock prices are highly correlated (as stock prices go up, skirt lengths get shorter).
The number of cavities in elementary school children and vocabulary size have a strong positive correlation.

from: http://www.stat.tamu.edu/stat30x/notes/node42.html
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 11, 2007, 07:58:53 pm
Beware of studies.  Correlation does not always equal causation.



Ice cream sales and the number of shark attacks on swimmers are correlated.
Skirt lengths and stock prices are highly correlated (as stock prices go up, skirt lengths get shorter).
The number of cavities in elementary school children and vocabulary size have a strong positive correlation.

from: http://www.stat.tamu.edu/stat30x/notes/node42.html

Yes, the original poster reminded the thread of this (Statistics 101). That having been said, a strong correlation (strong being a relative word of course) can be the basis for investigating whether a causal link does in fact exist.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 08:01:37 pm
I think what it boils down to is respect, and the imposition of beliefs upon others.  Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

This was a hot topic for many people before they even opened the thread.  It doesn't surprise me that people got time outs. :)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 08:07:08 pm
I'm repeating this now that we've moved on to page three...

EVERYONE...

This is a general warning. If we have a repeat of what went on in this thread earlier today, ALL INVOLVED will be given a Time Out. I'm NOT kidding.

If you are unsure whether what you want to post will earn you a time out, DON'T post it. Simple as that.

Ann

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 11, 2007, 08:10:53 pm
I think what it boils down to is respect, and the imposition of beliefs upon others.  Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

-joseph

Absolutely, Joseph, well said.

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 11, 2007, 08:19:20 pm
Since there's been a lot of talk of risks, voluntary and involuntary on this thread, some figures (from an old JAMA article) that I found interesting. The ratio next to each risk represents "Risk of death per person per year."

Involuntary Risks:

1. Struck by automobile: 1 in 20,000
2. Floods: 1 in 455,000
3. Falling aircraft: 1 in 10 million
3. Leukemia: 1 in 12,500
4. Influenza: 1 in 5,000
5. Earthquake (California): 1 in 588,000
6. Tornadoes (Midwest): 1 in 455,000

Voluntary Risks:

1. Smoking, 20 cigarettes a day: 1 in 200
2. Drinking, bottle of wine a day: 1 in 13,300
3. Automobile racing: 1 in 1,000
4. Horse racing: 1 in 740
5. Rock climbing: 1 in 7,150
6. Professional boxing: 1 in 14,300
7. Canoeing: 1 in 100,000
8. Motorcycling: 1 in 50
9. Skiing: 1 in 430,000
10. Abortion, first trimester: 1 in 50,000

The statistics are a bit old, but fascinating nonetheless.

On the question of perceived risk and how endpoint affects that, I'm reminded of a cartoon:

Pollster: "Lifelong smokers have a one-in-two chance of dying from smoking-related disease."
Guy with cig in mouth: "It'll never happen to me."
Pollster: "The odds of winning the powerball lottery are 80 million to one."
Same guy, holding a ticket: "This could be my lucky day!"

 ;D

Jay
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RapidRod on January 11, 2007, 08:20:35 pm
This thread would not be complete without this:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_it3btjwmzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_it3btjwmzo)




Aaaah....there it is.....
I forgot how much I loved these babies.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 08:21:22 pm
In the end... the world death rate is holding fairly steady at 100%

I hear the risk of dying from being born is 1 to 1.   ;)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 08:21:49 pm
I'm an idiot and don't know how to modify my own posts.

Ignore me from now on, please.   :D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Razorbill on January 11, 2007, 08:31:13 pm
aupoint -
 In all seriousness, there are deaths and there are deaths  - I know this up close and personal.  Choose your demise wisely.
le pingouin (Razorbill in French)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 08:34:15 pm
Ignore me from now on, please.   :D

OKay



LOL... J/K  :)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 11, 2007, 08:35:25 pm
Perhaps people haven't been able to pinpoint it, but we all come out fighting like badgers when we feel that our choices are being taken away.

GREAT point, thanks. I never looked at it from that angle.

Me, I wanna die like Rose in Titanic: warm 'n' fuzzy

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 08:42:25 pm
aupoint -
 In all seriousness, there are deaths and there are deaths  - I know this up close and personal.  Choose your demise wisely.
le pingouin (Razorbill in French)

I know... I do have a dark, dry sense of humor.

In all seriousness... I do have a feeling... that my demise will end up choosing me regardless of my feelings on the matter.  I'm not trying to argumentative at all... I just think that we all die eventually... I know exactly what you mean, and part of me agrees with it.  I suppose that's why I make light of it. 

I feel like if I didn't mock death, in any of its forms... it would probably end up driving me crazy and consuming me.

And that's most bold-faced honest thing I've ever admitted to anyone on here.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 08:46:11 pm

And that's most bold-faced honest thing I've ever admitted to anyone on here.

I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 08:47:42 pm
I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.


Thank you. 

It's so much easier for me to talk about what I've done than what I feel, I suppose.  I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 08:51:22 pm
Thank you. 

It's so much easier for me to talk about what I've done than what I feel, I suppose.  I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.

In a society where we're taught that emotional visibility is a sign of weakness, it doesn't surprise me.

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 08:54:07 pm
In a society where we're taught that emotional visibility is a sign of weakness, it doesn't surprise me.

-joseph

I was blaming it on my mother's family being Southern....

No joke.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: allopathicholistic on January 11, 2007, 08:55:50 pm
I'm uncomfortable with most emotion.  I don't know why... but I am.

you're a man! hello!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 09:00:19 pm
I was blaming it on my mother's family being Southern....

No joke.


I think I get where you're coming form on that:  there is this whole 'things that aren't talked about or seen' deal going on with southern families.  at least with mine.  but we digress. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 11, 2007, 09:36:36 pm
Not to change the subject but...

There's a city about thirty miles from here that recently banned all smoking in public places.  Numerous efforts through referendum were made to make exceptions for taverns and eating establishments that serve liquor.  These all failed.  A once thriving nightlife in the city's downtown evaporated overnight. 

This might sound like a good thing.  Less drinking, less driving and less smoking.  The problem now is on the highway.  All those late night partiers take to the highway to outlying communities where smoking is still permitted.  Accidents on the highways have increased dramatically.  The anti's got their way and innocents are paying the price.   I doubt that very few of those voting for the ban ever frequented these establishments.  Just pushing what they think is right onto others.  There's talk of a statewide ban but that would just increase problems in the border cities and interstate highways. 

If there was a real demand for smoke-free establishments I'm sure some entrepreneur would have taken advantage.
Now they have nothing but unemployment, boredom, vacant buildings and the final "death blow" to an historic downtown.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 09:39:14 pm
Not to change the subject but...

AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...

:)

My great grandma used to bootleg whiskey. :)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 11, 2007, 09:42:33 pm
AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...


A few years ago when Maryland knocked up their cigarette taxes to really high levels... some organzied criminals got in on buying massive quantities of them here in Virginia and were selling them up there...

The alleged purpose of the taxes was to deter smoking... but I saw this neat infographic that showed the state with the lowest cigarette tax (Virginia) versus the highest (New York).  And in both states, about 25% of the adult population smokes. 

Thank you, Washington Post.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Bartro on January 11, 2007, 09:55:13 pm
AHhhhhhh... prohibition.

Yes...   It didn't work in the 20's...  You can only push people so far with right limitations before you invent another genre of organized crime...

:)

My great grandma used to bootleg whiskey. :)

-joseph

Hey, my great grandmother told tales of making "bathtub gin" and selling it in her "speak-easy".  Her daughter, my grandmother, when a young girl would dance on the bar and sing vulgar drinking songs of the day.  My grandmother, probably due to a bit of senility, recently began to constantly sing these awful ditties.  I have to admit, some of them made me blush, coming out of grandma's mouth.

Maybe when, and if, smoking becomes illegal I'll open a "smoke-easy".
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 10:04:43 pm
Hey, my great grandmother told tales of making "bathtub gin" and selling it in her "speak-easy".  Her daughter, my grandmother, when a young girl would dance on the bar and sing vulgar drinking songs of the day.  My grandmother, probably due to a bit of senility, recently began to constantly sing these awful ditties.  I have to admit, some of them made me blush, coming out of grandma's mouth.

Your grandma sounds like she was just the bee's knees!

Before my great grandma died, I remember taking care of her one night, only to hear her (she was bed-ridden mind you)  saying some of the most horribly wretched things as she slept.  I woulda swore she was a sailor! :)

She was a neat lady, though... and always encouraged me to do whatever I damn well pleased. :)  Who woulda thunk? :)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 11, 2007, 10:07:19 pm
I found out recently that my grandfather was a bootlegger!  Even had an airstrip in the hills that he used to fly booze out of!  HA! 

I come from outlaw stock. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Boo Radley on January 11, 2007, 11:21:45 pm
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.

Exposure to too much tobacco smoke makes me physically ill and I have to remove myself from the environment or the smoker from the environment.  In my house people can smoke one cigarette in a 1 hour period.  If more than 1 cig per hour is desired there are the front and back porches.  Maximum 3 cigs...

Other than that I don't care who smokes or why or how bad it is because I have a few bad habits myself and I'll not caste the first stone.  I always wait until there's no chance the stoned one can fight back and then throw the largest rocks I can find.

Why is tonight the first time I noticed this stupid font?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 11, 2007, 11:25:31 pm
Why is tonight the first time I noticed this stupid font?

I'd really like to say that it's because you're a dumbass, but I know you've been focusing on yoru liza history and working up those subliminal messages to make everyone eat cheese. :)

We forgive you...   of our deepest benevolence.

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: rick21007 on January 11, 2007, 11:56:20 pm
Geez gang!  I left this thread a couple of days ago. (puff)  Amazing the emotional charge the subject carries.  I wonder why that is?  Smoking marijuana sure doesnt elicit anything of the same intensity.

I sorta wonder if it isn't the pecking order thing??  Being a gay man who is hiv poz I sorta feel like in this society for the most part I am hanging out on one of the bottom rungs of the social ladder. (well at least the social ladder I was raised on)
 Being a smoker to boot I guess I just dropped a few more rungs. (puff)

I used to tell people I was clawing my way to the bottom and I didn't care who I had to step on to get there. (puff)

And for y'all raised in the South you can just bless my heart!  (He's a smoker, bless his heart!)

Best,  Rick
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 01:18:19 am
I don't know... I thought the heroin use was pretty bold. :)

I admire you.


He's not the only one... just call me River Phoenix
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 01:19:12 am
I'd like to marry Boo so that I can steal all of his klonopin
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 12, 2007, 01:27:34 am
I'd like to marry Boo so that I can steal all of his klonopin

me too!! :)   let's marry him together!  :)

*giggle*

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 01:39:37 am
Well, we'd have to clean his house first.  Plus do we really want to live in a flood zone?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 12, 2007, 09:49:41 am
There is a guy who "hangs out" in our neighborhood.  He is a crack (drug) addict. We refer to him as" the bottom feeder" because he has been offered help dozens of times, been incarcerated dozens of times... but he gets cleaned up and comes back and finds some old carpet that someone threw out and a cardboard box and builds himself a little condo in an alley way and preceeds to do as much drug as he can.  He goes into churches and robs them...and goes BACK and asks the priest for handouts of cash or food.  My neighbor is one of the priests who has tried to help him by getting him into rehab.  No luck.  This guy lays in the street in front of the priests house and puts up a howl like a wounded animal and rolls around as if in agony just to get the priests attention. So he will get another 5 dollars ........for drugs ya suppose?  After 10 years of this ..not joking....the priest has gotten a restraining order on the guy so if he shows up the police can be called and he will be arrested.
My accupuncturist said the treatment he gives for heroin addiction and for nicotine addiction is the same one.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 12, 2007, 10:10:01 am
DAY 3 FOR ME..
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 12, 2007, 10:11:11 am
Good for you Eric.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 12, 2007, 10:21:32 am
Yep Eric. Write, call if you need anything. DON'T lean over a cliff etc. these days anyway :D

It gets better after Day 3. It really does.

Love, Jay
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 12, 2007, 10:24:50 am
I have strugged with this idea for more years then I care to admit.   I want it to be over (as much as it can be) and feel better about things that are within my control...   Thanks Joel & Jay...   Im not going to give in..
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 12, 2007, 11:36:46 am
In the end... the world death rate is holding fairly steady at 100%

I hear the risk of dying from being born is 1 to 1.   ;)

I LOVE THIS ANSWER!  It is one of my life philosophies!!!

Never take life TOO seriously because you'll NEVER get out alive!!!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 12, 2007, 11:37:59 am
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.

LORD VALDEMORT IS HERE?????????????????

Where's Harry when I need him.....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 12, 2007, 11:41:54 am
Plus do we really want to live in a flood zone?

Yeah, yer right. :(

LOL
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 02:10:29 pm
Bear... you should send me info on your acupuncturist, if you don't mind.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fondeveau on January 12, 2007, 06:36:58 pm
DAY 3 FOR ME..

Congrats to Eric on his 3d Day - Day 3 for me, too - having an awful time fighting the urge to run into a smoked-filled bar - all this fresh air getting into my lungs is nauseating! Well, truth be told its not bad, the Chantix seems to work pretty well.  I've been monitoring my blood pressure and this evening it was 135/63 - so a little high on the systolic, good on the diastolic.  On Day One, it was 118/73 -
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 06:39:15 pm
All smokers are the knowing or inadvertant followers of the Horned One, the Beast, the Name that Dare Not be Spoken... and on and on and on.


I like following the Beast.

You can see his butt.

And he's got a sweet ass.   :D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: manchesteruk on January 12, 2007, 08:21:36 pm
I think the main thing to consider here is that everyone knows that smoking is bad for them anyone who doesn't know that must be living under a rock.  It's important to remember that smokers know this and they are making an informed judgement about if they smoke or not.  I smoke myself but i'm all for the ban in public places coming into the UK in the summer I don't see why any non-smoker should be subjected to my second hand smoke. 

I've tried to quit a few times and could go comfortably without any cigarettes as long as alcohol isn't involved! I seem to associate drinking with smoking now and it's pretty much the only time I do smoke.  Alcohol does lower will power of course but the fact of the matter is I still enjoy smoking i'll be honest!  And i'll continue to have a smoke with a drink until I don't enjoy it anymore i'm not an idiot though im making an informed decision.

Without wishing to sound like a salesman anyone thinking about quitting should consider reading Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking book.  He basically argues that the physical addiction to nicotine only lasts 3 days and everything else is physcological i've read the book and it's quite interesting it's worked for a hell of a lot of people as well.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 12, 2007, 08:51:40 pm

Without wishing to sound like a salesman anyone thinking about quitting should consider reading Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking book.  He basically argues that the physical addiction to nicotine only lasts 3 days and everything else is physcological i've read the book and it's quite interesting it's worked for a hell of a lot of people as well.

I tried to read Carr's book a couple years ago. Trouble was, it put me to sleep everytime. Still, I suppose it worked in that while I was asleep, I couldn't smoke. Carr died of lung cancer this past summer. ::)

I'm starting to come around to the idea of public bans on smoking. Every time I've tried to quit, it was the smell of other people smoking that quashed my will-power. Maybe I'll stand a better chance if I can go out and not end up craving from smelling someone light up.

Ann
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: manchesteruk on January 12, 2007, 08:59:56 pm
That's what i'm thinking might happen with me the craving starts as soon as i see someone smoking in a pub or bar although a lot of places are setting up there own designated smoking areas outside.  Aparantly in Ireland where the bans been in place for a while these smoking areas are little social gatherings!  Of course the downside of this ban is pubs etc instead of smelling like smoke smell of peoples armpits and other bodily odours, nice.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Ann on January 12, 2007, 09:01:58 pm
Of course the downside of this ban is pubs etc instead of smelling like smoke smell of peoples armpits and other bodily odours, nice.

LOL... I think that's also a downside of having a new and improved sense of smell after quitting. Ewww! ;D

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 09:03:23 pm
I have a strong libertarian streak in me (is anyone really surprised by this?), and I'm generally extremely uncomfortable with the idea of banning smoking in public places... the whole idea of the nanny state is one that rubs me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: manchesteruk on January 12, 2007, 09:09:29 pm
the whole idea of the nanny state is one that rubs me the wrong way.

No I do agree with you there, it must be fun living in America I've seen Fox News! if I watched that channel all the time I'd think the end of the world would be imminent!  The reason I agree with the smoking ban is because of the effects of passive smoking on people who don't ask to be subjected to it.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 09:12:10 pm
The reason I agree with the smoking ban is because of the effects of passive smoking on people who don't ask to be subjected to it.

I get all of my news from bbc.co.uk.  I don't watch the 24 hour news networks.

With the exception of the people who work in bars... I have to ask myself... are non-smokers who frequent bars to such a degree that their lung health is endangered really all that concerned about their health in general? 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: manchesteruk on January 12, 2007, 09:17:56 pm
haha that's actually a really good point, you can't argue against that!  Alcohol is a nice taxable drug though.....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 09:20:51 pm
You're completely correct... and one that is responsible for physical damage to not only the alcoholic... but in terms of emotional, psychological, and monetary damage to others around him or her.

If we were truly serious about the "public health," it would be the first on the list of Things to Ban.

Yet we don't. 

Interesting. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Cliff on January 12, 2007, 09:27:26 pm
I don't smoke, but I don't have any problems with people who do.  A good percentage of my friends do and I don't mind.  I do plenty of things that aren't healthy for me. It's my choice and I own up to it, and I don't want folks preaching to me about it, so I shouldn't do it to smokers.  I suppose I should worry about 2nd hand smoke, but I don't. Statistically speaking, I'm much more at risk for other types of cancer (especially prostrate cancer), than getting lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke.  I think the issues with 2nd hand smoke is more hype than substance. Not that inhaling smoke isn't unhealthy (duh). But that, people aren't worried about the things that they are really at risk for, while stressing over the things that are low risk.

I do prefer nonsmoking venues (I think London goes smoke free this summer), but only because I don't like it when my clothes smell of smoke after a night out.  Dry cleaning a leather jacket or a blazer can be expensive (though the smell usually goes away after a couple of days of airing out).
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 12, 2007, 09:27:52 pm
And continue to ban marijuana. Even more interesting. But that's a whole different thread.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 12, 2007, 09:31:44 pm
After NYC bars went non-smoking, the smokers would pop out frequently, even in the bitter cold, to get their oral/nicotine fix. It was nice, actually, in a way -- there was a kind of camaraderie. Even met a couple of hotties that way. (Easiest pick-up or intro line, I suppose: "Could I bum a smoke?")
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 09:36:31 pm
After NYC bars went non-smoking, the smokers would pop out frequently, even in the bitter cold, to get their oral/nicotine fix. It was nice, actually, in a way -- there was a kind of camaraderie. Even met a couple of hotties that way. (Easiest pick-up or intro line, I suppose: "Could I bum a smoke?")

I have made more friends and gotten more play from that.

The Unspoken Rule of Ye Who Borroweth Cigarettes Must Engage the Person Who Gave To Thee In Conversation.

I've actually scored very high points with hot guys who ask me for a cigarette... I say yes... put it in my mouth and light it for them, and then hand it to them.

It's a gesture that says, "Do me now.  Really."
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 12, 2007, 09:44:54 pm
Note to self: Remember to do that the next time a cutie asks me for a cigarette. Second note to self: Always listen seriously to Benj's tips on How To Score With Hot Guys.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 12, 2007, 09:53:11 pm
I've actually scored very high points with hot guys who ask me for a cigarette... I say yes... put it in my mouth and light it for them, and then hand it to them.

It's a gesture that says, "Do me now.  Really."

You know, you just don't get quite the same results when you're using Little Debbie snack cakes instead of cigarettes...  hrm...

*scratches head*

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 09:56:22 pm
You know, you just don't get quite the same results when you're using Little Debbie snack cakes instead of cigarettes...  hrm...

*scratches head*

-joseph

OK... you just made me laugh and almost choke on my Pepsi...

That's funny!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 10:22:47 pm
whore
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 10:29:10 pm
whore

Moi?   ::)

But look at how cute I am!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 10:30:44 pm
Yes, but you wear WHITE SHOES
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 10:32:35 pm
Yes, but you wear WHITE SHOES

Not anymore actually. 

They didn't match my new fag. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 10:34:42 pm
I trust that's dye in your hair! :)  Nice color.  (and if that's not a "Come Hither" look I don't know what is... like I said:  whore)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bocker3 on January 12, 2007, 10:35:51 pm
OK -- in the spirit of a good debate....   ;D

First -- the legal disclosures:
I quit drinking in 1989
I quit smoking in 1993

OK --
I don't consider asking that I be allowed to breathe smoke-free air in public places to be a horrible request.  I too believe that people should be allowed to do as they wish with and to their body, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else.  Certainly one can argue that a business owner has a right to allow smoking in his/her establishment.  I'd be fine with that -- just post it plainly, so that I and others who don't want the smoke know this.  The problem with this is, most people (at least in the US) do NOT smoke, so the economics would get to many businesses and force their hands -- but not all, I'm sure.

I'm just saying.....

Mike

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 12, 2007, 10:37:12 pm
OK -- in the spirit of a good debate....   ;D

First -- the legal disclosures:
I quit drinking in 1989
I quit smoking in 1993

OK --
I don't consider asking that I be allowed to breathe smoke-free air in public places to be a horrible request.  I too believe that people should be allowed to do as they wish with and to their body, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else.  Certainly one can argue that a business owner has a right to allow smoking in his/her establishment.  I'd be fine with that -- just post it plainly, so that I and others who don't want the smoke know this.  The problem with this is, most people (at least in the US) do NOT smoke, so the economics would get to many businesses and force their hands -- but not all, I'm sure.

I'm just saying.....

Mike



*nods in mike's general direction*

want a little debbie snack cake???

*wink*

;)

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 10:37:30 pm
I trust that's dye in your hair! :)  Nice color.  (and if that's not a "Come Hither" look I don't know what is... like I said:  whore)

It was dyed that color.  It's now Adorable Asian Baby Black. 

And that look is "quit taking pictures of me so I can do you right now."  There was a particularly attractive gentleman behind the camera that evening. 

He also had drugs in his pocket.  It was a two birds, one stone kind of thing.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 12, 2007, 10:39:42 pm
Speedballing again?
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bocker3 on January 12, 2007, 10:45:07 pm
*nods in mike's general direction*

want a little debbie snack cake???

*wink*

;)

-joseph


Hmmmmm!???!!  Would that be an Oatmeal Cream Treat???   :-X

Mike
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 12, 2007, 10:48:06 pm

Hmmmmm!???!!  Would that be an Oatmeal Cream Treat???   :-X

Mike

Let me give you one *begins frothing at the mouth*

*unwraps the oatmeal cream treat*
*gives it exceptional, slobbery tongue action, and takes a small nibble*
*wipes backwash from lips*
*hands little debby Oatmeal Cream Treat to Mike*

Here you are, baby....

"Do me now, really!"

-joseph
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: RevMC on January 12, 2007, 10:51:11 pm
I started smoking at around 20 until I was 34 when I stopped.  I was already poz for about 9 yrs when I decided to quit.  After 3 years I started smoking again, major stress.  Going to college full-time, working part-time/full-time and my mom was terminally ill.  Plus Louie and I had a HUGE fight after talking to the rehab center my mom was in, so I grabbed a cigarette out of spite.  Started smoking a week before she died.  It's been almost 6 years and I'm getting ready to quit again, this time for good.  Can't do the patch, or wellbutrin so I did it cold turkey.  Going to try the Commit loscenges.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 10:53:56 pm
Let me give you one *begins frothing at the mouth*

*unwraps the oatmeal cream treat*
*gives it exceptional, slobbery tongue action, and takes a small nibble*
*wipes backwash from lips*
*hands little debby Oatmeal Cream Treat to Mike*

Here you are, baby....

"Do me now, really!"

-joseph

It totally loses a certain "je ne sais quoi" when you do it.

Much like a translation of a poem... something's missing there.   ;D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 12, 2007, 10:55:21 pm
Good luck, Rev. Not that you need luck, you sound determined enough. Jay
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aupointillimite on January 12, 2007, 11:00:48 pm
Speaking of smoking... I am going to be on planes and in airports from 10:20 AM until 4:50 PM (Central) tomorrow.

No cigarettes. 

I'm nic fitting just thinking about it. 

kthxbye!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: ACinKC on January 12, 2007, 11:04:41 pm
I quit when i got syphillis.... i was just feeling REALLY shitty and couldnt figure out why (took em 3 months to figure it out, had to go all the way up to MAYO on my own dime to get it done....but i do love my ID doc.) so, anyway, I just threw the pack away i had and stopped.  I do occaisonally smoke when I drink, but thats only once a month maybe!!!  Im not implying it is this easy FOR ANYONE else, just typing cause im friggin BORED as hell.

I may start drinkin a little and fire one up here in a few.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 12, 2007, 11:06:10 pm
Speaking of smoking... I am going to be on planes and in airports from 10:20 AM until 4:50 PM (Central) tomorrow.

No cigarettes. 

I'm nic fitting just thinking about it. 

kthxbye!


And speaking of airports....my little buddy's gonna be gone from the boards while on his adventures.

No PM's for me from him.


I'm Benj fitting just thinking about it.


kthxbye!  (and have fun, friend.)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: phantim on January 13, 2007, 12:19:06 pm
I was glad to see a post on this, as I have always wondered why anyone with HIV or any other serious disease would continue such reckless behavior. (Not casting stones, as I recognize it's my reckless behavior that, even if a non-smoker, got me here.)

That being said, I am curious to know if smokers recognize the impact that they have on those around them. I know that some are more conscious of their habit than others, but I become frustrated when I have to dodge smokers standing outside my building (who seem to form a herd that produces a disgusting cloud around them). And the ones that light up on the escaltors before we even get out of the subway ... don't get me started (have screamed at a few for such rude behavior).

Now that I think about it, smoking in public should be lumped together with HIV - which is criminalized in many states if you knowingly spread it. I'd back a law banning smoking in all public places, given that it directly spreads deadly toxins to those around you without their consent.

Anyone out there considering quitting - do it! If not for yourself (best reason), do it for the people who have to walk in your cancer-causing wake every day.



You must be kidding! Even if cigarettes didn't exist in this day and age, you would still be ingesting toxins from everything you currently put in your body. Hhmmm......Antiretrovirals, tap water, processed food, vehicle exhaust, your deodorant and cologne that is absorbed through your skin....the list goes on and on. Something to think about the next time you start your car and go to the drive-thru to get some fries and a diet coke. Oh please save the speach as you're wasting your breath, which will probably give me cancer.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 13, 2007, 12:43:01 pm
Day 4....
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 13, 2007, 12:55:26 pm
And here is a mental reward for you, Eric...


Just think:  as of right now, your body should be cleared of nicotine (usually takes 2 to 3 days).  If you were tested right now, you would appear to the world as a non-smoker. 


You can tell the world you're a  non-smoker if you want...and dare them to prove you wrong.


Congratulations and wishes for continued success.


Tim
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 13, 2007, 12:59:11 pm
Tim, thank you very much... I am trying to tell myself all these things when I get into a pinch.   I even have the rubberband around my wrist.   Its not as red as it was a few days ago....  The morning cough reminds me of what I am doing...
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 13, 2007, 01:08:09 pm
Good for you Eric (and anyone else attempting to break this addiction).

I stopped for 12 years and I intend to stop again. I know how and what works for me, and at this point in my life I’m just not ready. No point kidding myself.

In the meantime, I respect non smokers’ rights not to be around me if I smoke, just as I decline to be around people drinking. All public buildings in Ottawa are now smoke free as well. I’m all for that, just not for being arrested for smoking in public or in my own home.

Daniel

PS: here's a link to Smoker's Helpline online if any one is interested in checking it out:

Smokers’ Helpline Online (http://www.smokershelpline.ca/)

Smokers’ Helpline Online is an interactive, web-based service available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week offering tips, tools and support to help with quitting smoking.

Special features include:


Sign up free!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bocker3 on January 13, 2007, 01:10:59 pm
Eric --

Woo Hoo...   Keeping it going.  Just for today!  I'm rooting for you from across the country.

Hugs and a  :-* ,

Mike
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 13, 2007, 01:16:49 pm
I honestly think it helps to not look at it as quitting for life...just quitting for one day- each day that you wake up, just focus on making it for that one day.  Guess that is like that AA saying, "One Day At A Time" right?  But it is helpful to narrow the scope in your mind to something easier to manage.  When a craving hits (which should also be getting easier to manage now that the chemicals are clearing out of your system), don't even think about quitting for the whole day.  Think only about not smoking for the next 20-30 minutes.  You might even try to mentally shift it in your mind from an obstacle to a sort of game; when a craving hits, see if you can 'outwit' it for that one round- like beating an opponent at a hand of cards.  That might sound crazy, but I think doing that little mental shift might actually help trigger a pleasure response in your head.  Granted, I had a lot of help via Wellbutrin I got for depression...but that little mind game I played with myself went a long way with or without the pills.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 13, 2007, 01:18:28 pm
Mike,  Daniel & Tim...  You know it really is very supportive to have you rooting for us...  It means alot and when that moment of truth or weakness shows itself,  I am brought back to those like you who keep giving that gentle push...

Love
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 13, 2007, 01:32:16 pm
Sure thing!  It's wild that if you read back on this thread, there was a guy railing at me for being this big smoking encourager...and I'm really not!  I was just making an argument for individual freedoms.  I am ALL FOR people doing things that will make them happier and stronger. 


Oh!  I thought of another reeeally helpful thing to do!  This is a GREAT one- especially for the first month or two. 

How much are cigarettes per pack where you are?  Four or five bucks?  At the end of each day, put the money you don't spend on the cigarettes in a clear jar so you can see the cash accumulating.  At the end of each week or month, empty the pot and do something fabulous with it.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 13, 2007, 01:48:00 pm
No problem, Eric. I remember the hell and I remember it well. Anyone within 100 yards of me took their lives in their own hands during my detoxification days. I remember the emotional roller coaster and going around banging doors a lot. LOL Basically, I was a holy terror and would have preferred my own island to live on.

PS: I agree with what Tim wrote about thinking in small time frames when the cravings hit. It helped me when I quit cold turkey, the only method that works for me.

Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 13, 2007, 01:56:55 pm
7 Bucks Tim.... Lets see - $7 * 7DAYS * 4WEEKS * 12MONTHS = $2352 = Cruise ship Tim..  Daniel,  thats funny about the doors.   The people I work with were wondering why I have been closing doors a bit louder than normal...   Then they said,  oh, hes quitting..  We don't mind the door slamming Eric...  We just want you to make it this time...   ;D  I havent become an asshole (yet).   
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 13, 2007, 02:06:27 pm
$7 a pack?!  Good grief!  Here in the heart of tobacco country, they are only about $3.50...sometimes less.  Heck, you can do the cruise ship in a year.  Even if you give up on the savings before then, you can still get some nice dinners for $49...and some pretty nice swag for the $196 / month.

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: hudstar on January 13, 2007, 02:35:15 pm

And the ones that light up on the escaltors before we even get out of the subway ... don't get me started (have screamed at a few for such rude behavior).

Now that I think about it, smoking in public should be lumped together with HIV - which is criminalized in many states if you knowingly spread it. I'd back a law banning smoking in all public places, given that it directly spreads deadly toxins to those around you without their consent.

Anyone out there considering quitting - do it! If not for yourself (best reason), do it for the people who have to walk in your cancer-causing wake every day.



Funny, I had same thought the other day about synthetic socks in public places and how they spread deadly odours to those around them. What about those crowded subways full of wool blend suits after a down pour of rain.........phew, they smell really bad when damp! Unavoidable, a heavy populated area is full of smells! Smoking yup........ I admit I light up occasionally - often within my own space. I smoke rather than kick a wall or decking someone. I puff to easy listening music. I draw back on the cancer stick while in deep thought. I always carry a portable ashtray so as not leave the stub behind to avoid choking some poor fish or dumb witted gull thinking it food.  I enjoy the occasional puff and I think the idea of the quit smoking agenda is good as it has outlined to me the dangers of passive smoking. I also feel peeved that the anti smoking campaign does seem PC more so than a whole hearted effort to save humanity...... after all, they are still selling them and with additional taxes! If we are going to be so concerned about our health and that of others - what about combining it with issues regarding the ozone layer? polluted cities? hormone enhanced food produce.  I agree smoking is bad, so is breathing in polluted city air, moist air conditioning units, white bread, raw meat, fossil fuel, roll on deodorants, microwaves, mobile phones, carbonated drinks, coffee, tea.............and on and on........come on, lets get real, something is amiss here.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: hudstar on January 13, 2007, 02:43:40 pm
$7 a pack?!  Good grief!  Here in the heart of tobacco country, they are only about $3.50...sometimes less.  Heck, you can do the cruise ship in a year.  Even if you give up on the savings before then, you can still get some nice dinners for $49...and some pretty nice swag for the $196 / month.



wow, $3.50 a pack. Im use to paying $13.00 a pack............ no wonder I am an occassional smoker!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bocker3 on January 13, 2007, 02:51:47 pm
OK, I agree that the anti-smoking campaign isn't about saving humanity.  For some, like me, it may be about trying to save friends and family, but it's more about insuring that I don't have inhale someone else's smoke.  I have NO PROBLEM with people smoking -- do what you want -- just don't make me smoke too.

As for using other harmful things as an excuse to make smoking "ok" -- I don't buy it.  Sure our air is full of crap, so is our water, so is our food, so is the medicine I take, but come on -- just because I may get hit by a truck while getting mail from my mailbox, doesn't make it OK to play tennis in the middle of a highway.

So I agree that things can go too far and we should respect people's right to self-determination, let's just be sure that that respect goes both ways.

Mike
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: lydgate on January 13, 2007, 02:59:02 pm
Day 4 Eric -- Yay! Great suggestions from Tim, btw.

Dammit, now I'm getting the cravings again -- for quitting. And I thought I'd quit quitting.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 13, 2007, 03:01:34 pm
Eric,

Here's a little something I hope will help you hang on to positive thoughts when you feel like slamming those doors. ;)

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=a29a8133d891989c5f6551f6cf281939&topic=7830.0



Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 13, 2007, 03:11:35 pm
whoah....  I put that on my desk top!  Thanks Daniel....  I love that gooshy stuff!  Yup, fag fag fag fag fag.... ;D
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 13, 2007, 03:19:30 pm
Fag? Who'd of thunk it? ;D

Glad you find it meaningful too, Eric.

Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: bear60 on January 13, 2007, 06:43:57 pm
Guys.....there are people I know who have quit smoking who still talk wistfully about it. Becoming an anti smoking "nazi" is not necessary just cause you dont smoke or have quit.  My partner quit 4 or 5 years before I quit.  He never said one word about my smoking.  Never.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fondeveau on January 13, 2007, 07:07:55 pm
Day 4....but, still in a quandary as to the discussion regardings "rights" as in rights to breathe, rights to smoke, etc.  Clearly, a commercial building that goes non-smoking does so under the belief that an economic advantage is gained thereby...a person that goes non-smoking does so under the belief that a health advantage is gained...as well as the economics of $5 per pack...presumably, governments would ban the practice for the same reasons, but is this merely a case were a rational relationship will suffice to support such action...or does it rise to the level of a compelling state interest in prohibiting the conduct...even though I'm not smoking, I hate the idea of government intrusion into so many facets of life.  Its truly the camel's nose under the tent.  Personally, I think an argument can be made that with the amount of taxes paid on a pack of cigarettes, that people are purchasing the "right" to "pollute" the public air.  But, who gave the air to the government to regulate?  Its strangely similar to corporations buying and selling emission quotas.  The government has determined a set amount of pollution that is "economically beneficial" and set the market to allocate it most efficiently. 
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 13, 2007, 07:32:25 pm
I'd be happier if there was an equal societal breathless obsession with smokers as with the obese.  I know it's coming... but I say shun these gargantuan drags on our national health expenditures.  I bet they cost us all FAR more than the smokers.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 13, 2007, 07:34:53 pm
ps:  I lost 10 lbs this week (all my mother's holiday food)

Also considering joining a gym, but not until February... hate those fools who swarm in January due to resolutions.  I used to be SUCH a gym bunny years ago but fell out of it when I had a 35 lb. weight loss and a sprained ligament doing leg presses.  However, it should be noted that I still made a grand appearance at Twilo (NYC nightclub) wearing head to toe Westwood and a pair of crutches.  The queens all applauded.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 13, 2007, 07:52:36 pm
ps:  I lost 10 lbs this week (all my mother's holiday food)

Also considering joining a gym, but not until February... hate those fools who swarm in January due to resolutions.  I used to be SUCH a gym bunny years ago but fell out of it when I had a 35 lb. weight loss and a sprained ligament doing leg presses.  However, it should be noted that I still made a grand appearance at Twilo (NYC nightclub) wearing head to toe Westwood and a pair of crutches.  The queens all applauded.

I remember Twilo! :)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 13, 2007, 11:55:56 pm
please child... I *RULED* that club!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 13, 2007, 11:56:44 pm
(too bad my life is so BORING now!  ha ha)

::retired from clubs::
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Strayboy74 on January 14, 2007, 12:00:07 am
(too bad my life is so BORING now!  ha ha)

::retired from clubs::

welcome to my world!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fearless on January 14, 2007, 03:24:30 am
I'm a smoker.

Sometimes I enjoy it, especially when drinking or pilling. Mostly, I hate it as it has control over me, costs me $100/week (10 packs at $10 a pop), stinks, makes my teeth yellow, my breath stink, ages my skin, and apparantley makes my sperm taste off. I also see a certain irony in the fact that I pop all these pills to stop HIV in its tracks, and which were giving me such grief until recently, yet I voluntarily choose to do something that in 50% of cases will lead to a slow and horrible death.

I get annoyed though, when non-smokers harp on about a puff of my 2nd hand smoke killing them. I don't know the science, but I'm pretty sure the occasional waft of my smoke is not going to kill them. I'd have much more respect if they just admitted that it stinks and annoys them, rather than ranting that I'm killing them.

Smokers can be their own worst enemies though, too. I hate walking on the street behind someone smoking. It does stink, and the next smoker who ashes on me when I'm suited up and on my way to work, I may just kill.

And, why can't smokers put their butts in the bin? It ain't that hard. At my office, we have this great garden where people smoke and where others just enjoy being outdoors. There must be 10 or 15 bins with large ashtrays on them, spaced every 10 metres or so, yet smokers just stomp their butts into the ground and leave them there. It drives me insane, and I'm a smoker. It would really piss me off if I was a non-smoker.

Butts have become such a problem in the city, that the Council has employed plain clothed 'butt police' who patrol the streets and hit you with an on-the-spot fine if you're caught throwing your butt on the sidewalk. For the same reason, smoking is prohibited on most Sydney beaches. Smokers only have themselves to blame for this.

As of 1 July 2007, we will have a total smoking ban in pubs and clubs. Thankfully, I don't go out much these days so I will not notice it much. It would've killed me a couple of years back though, as I chain smoke when boozing and having fun.

We have some bizarre laws though, which I think have gone too far. For example, in NSW it is illegal to smoke with 5 metres of swings and other children's playthings in parks and playgrounds.

Time for a ciggie.


Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: pozatlguy on January 14, 2007, 12:16:04 pm
I had a mother that smoked when I grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's.  She didn't think anything about smoking and making us keep the car windows up either because it was hot or cold outside.  Of course this was at a time when the dangers were not taken seriously.  Anyway I hated it so much that I swore off ever tying it myself.  So I'm 44yo now and never touched the things.  Funny thing my mother, she finally quit when she turned 60 and when the grandchilden started to arrive. 

I can't even stand to go to a smokey club/bar now.  Please stop if you can; save your money and health at the same time.

-F
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: hudstar on January 14, 2007, 04:29:20 pm

As for using other harmful things as an excuse to make smoking "ok" -- I don't buy it. 

I agree, smoking is not ok, I never said otherwise. I am responsible towards others by smoking im my own space (as stated). As for comparing the imbalance of the smoking campaign to other issues worse than passive smoking........a valid issue. I do much work within this area and I have to put up with environmetal issues that I do not contribute to because others do not make the effort for change. Example - I took my air conditioning out of my car because it was contributing to the ozone problem.  I see no major campaign for saving the ozone or of its proven connection regarding skin/eye cancer.........so I think a puff on a fag in private is less harmful than a blast from raw UV rays that harm a wider population. Once again, I state the campaign is amiss, Did you know that since this anti smoking campaign has been launched, tobbacco companies have been targeting less economical countries to make up for the loss in sales. I think the commercial side to smoking will cause me to quit, not social pressure.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Eldon on January 14, 2007, 07:19:49 pm
On every pack of cigarettes there is a Surgeon's General Warning on the pack. Smoking is a vice to most. When the desire is made to quit the person will then quit smoking. There are reports that you breathe easier just as well.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: SouthSam7 on January 14, 2007, 10:12:53 pm
Welbutrin really works; it worked for me and I used tobacco for several years.  You don't have to stay on it once you quit, so you may want to try it out.
Sam
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: sdcabincrew74 on January 14, 2007, 11:29:23 pm
I do not throw my butts on the ground or out of my car, I do not smoke in my house and do not smoke in my car if others are in it.  However, it is MY RIGHT TO SMOKE if I choose and don't let me catch you judging me, I am not a nice person!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: fearless on January 15, 2007, 12:26:52 am
As well as the written health warning, our ciggies in Aus, now have graphic pictures of cancerous mouths, gangrenous feet, clogged arteries plastered all over them, front and back.


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Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Miss Philicia on January 15, 2007, 12:31:20 am
I have a bottle of wellbutrin in my cabinet.

::ponders furiously::
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 15, 2007, 03:12:17 am
As well as the written health warning, our ciggies in Aus,

We have them here in Canada too, Fearless. Some of them are so absurd they're laughable, such as:

CIGARETTES ARE HIGHLY ADDICTIVE

Gee, no kidding!
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: hudstar on January 15, 2007, 07:02:04 am
Just found there is a real cigarette brand called Laramie.....just the type Patty and Selma Bouvier smoke on the Simpsons!

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Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: aztecan on January 15, 2007, 08:34:31 am
Since the smoking ban went into effect Jan. 1 in nearby Farmington, I have noticed some comical side effects.

Outside the bowling alley, there are now two of those newfangled ashtray/butt receptacles. The ones with the little slot at the top for where people deposit their butts, a long stem and a bulbous bottom where the butts accumulate.

As I walked out of the building last Saturday night, I noticed both of these receptacles were smoking like coal-fired power plants. Apparently, people were racing out to have a few puffs between frames and not bothering to put the ciggies out before they dropped them in the receptacles. It was really quite a sight.

Also, many of the bars outside the city have begun advertising "Smokers Welcome!" I now expect the DWI rate to go up.

Ah, the times in which we live.

HUGS,

Mark
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: squareman on January 15, 2007, 09:18:41 am
Several people have mentioned the issue of other emissions in this debate, namely automotive. It's a valid point, and one that I've thought about a lot before. What's not been said, however, is that they do in fact aggressively regulate emissions from automobiles for the very reason that they are known toxins. In California, for example, you cannot buy or manufacture a diesel vehicles unless it meets a 99% emissions-free clean air test (which no U.S. manufacturer, including DaimlerChrysler or Volkswagen has been able to achieve).

In addition, studies have shown that cigarettes are, in fact, more harmful than the commons auto emissions - in some cases by up to 10 times more.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6312

Putting the science aside, I think the key thing for smokers to take away from this issue is respecting those whom your own personal choices impact. Our individual rights end where other people's rights begin, and many individuals choose not to smoke because of the damage it does. That means that they have a right to protect themselves, including preventing your behavior and choices from overriding their decision.

You are absolutely right. No-one has the right to cause your health harm willingly and a general consensus is that cars have a benefit to society whereas smoking generally has none. However I sometimes feel the focus is too much on smokers while there are a zillion other things in our environment that are even a lot more harmful than second-hand smoke from smokers. It is a proven fact that walking (and breathing air) up and down oxford street in London during 2 hours equals smoking 72 cigarettes. In Europe the situation is probably worse because many people drive Diesel cars which consume a lot less but exhaust more dangerous crap into the air in spite of very tight EU regulations.

I just feel there is no harm in people smoking outside as I think we have a lot of of other clean air issues to tackle first. (and our one main priorities for both the EU and the US should be getting rid of fossile fuels alltogether).

I once noticed the most peculiar situation on the platform of the Amsterdam railway station in Holland. There is a roof but no walls so you are practically standing outside but protected from the rain. There was one corner where people could smoke (although it was outside) while at the same time there were several diesel trains pumping out rusty exhaust fumes which had everybody coughing. Now it is incredible how people are made to believe they can become healthier if we do not tackle the main polution problems. I sometimes feel like we are all conned into focussing on smokers so the real issues do not need to be addressed.

For everybody's health in the long run to improve we need to switch to green energy and also check the chemical materials in our environment. I recently discovered that before 1981 companys did not have to test their new chemical plastics etc on harmfullness to health. Apalling. In the long run we will all become healthier only if we try to tackle all poluting issues and finally be able to save on our health costs.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 15, 2007, 12:02:20 pm
Day 6.....   No serious cravings...  I took the entire day off yesterday Sunday which is unheard of for me.   I slept the entire day.  I hate that!  I know life is going on outisde my door and I am missing it.  I am missing a perfectly stellar powder day, I am missing going out with Will..  I get very depressed when I do this.   William says you need your sleep and to catch up...   My brain says otherwise.   I get very "cabin fevored" doing this and that resuls in depression which I hate being in.   So I took a Clanazopam to chill the mind even though its 20 degrees below zero and would not have been a great day to be on the mountain (fair weather skier).   

I am not trying to change the thread but just add to my worries and my over all mild depression.   Since starting my meds, my weight has really become an issue for me.  I have no intention of changing meds, just getting a better handle on my diet..  Self Esteem is and feeling good about oneself is my goal....   I dont plan on ever giving up on this... NEVER..  And all my efforts are now focused on this smoking thing as well as weight loss...  Blast it... (again)

Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: DanielMark on January 15, 2007, 12:27:13 pm
Go Eric!   Go Eric!   Go Eric go!   (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k267/deemark/Emoticons/redrose.gif)

Daniel
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: thunter34 on January 17, 2007, 12:07:51 am
Still rooting for you, Eric!

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Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: SouthSam7 on January 17, 2007, 05:55:53 pm
I never judge.  Living in Alabama, it would be hard not to know someone who smokes!  It's like KY used to be - everyone smokes!  I don't smoke (cigs) but they don't bother me.  It's insane how overreactive places are now.  You can't even smoke outside! 

I just don't smoke myself because my younger friend had hiv and he smoked like a fiend and he never quit.  Well, he quit, just not the way I would have liked him to.  We miss you, Ed!
Love,
Sam
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: AlanBama on January 17, 2007, 06:22:21 pm
So true Sam, just about everybody in this state smokes.   And I read that we are No 2 nationwide in morbid obesity....

Yay Eric!  I am so proud of you honey.   Congratulations on your success so far, and keep up the good work.

AlanBama (who's always the 'exception' to the rule -  a skinny non-smoker!)
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Force1 on January 17, 2007, 07:19:51 pm
Im not a cigarette smoker, I do use tabacco(dip snuf) when I am outside, im out a lot I use tobacco.

not proud of my vice and yet I still do it.
Title: Re: Smokers
Post by: Life on January 17, 2007, 08:04:33 pm
Well, I have not killed anyone and I have not tossed a patron out on their ass because of being all out of wack for not smoking.... I am not going to let my mind play games with me like "Oh Eric, it was not that bad for you otherwise you would be shaking in your ski boots kinda thing"..  Thats what got me the last time I tried to quit.   Its not like a big deal right now....  I consider that a good sign.   I have so much to loose and so much to hopefully gain back including some of those cd4 dealies....  I can't and I will NOT go back..

Support here really helps me along as it does in so many aspects of my life... 

Oh guess what - ITS GAY SKI WEEK IN ASPEN AND I FORGOT ALL ABOUT IT..... Ooopsie..... http://www.gayskiweek.com/2007/photogal.htm

Love