Transmission and being undetectable.

[sunseeker]

I was at the doctor the other day and he told me that I was undetectable which is great news.  My doctor also said that there has been studies done that show its harder to infect a negative person when you are undetectable.  I am trying to get information so that I can let the negative guy that I am dating read about it so he is informed in all areas before making the choice to be intimate.  Thanks for any help and information.

[Bucko]

You're not gonna hear much different from conventional wisdom around here. Use a condom for anal and/or vaginal sex. Read the thread on oral sex and judge for yourself.

Good luck and happy sex-

Brent
(Who enjoys a healthy sex life)

[LACboi]

Hello Sun,

Only about 5% of the virus is in the blood so when you are undetectable that is only testing the blood. So use a condom when having intercourse vaginal, or anal.


Jeremy...

[MOONLIGHT1114]

Hi Sun~

The guys are right.  VL testing only tests what's in the blood, while other body fluids could differ.  You should always be using protection for intercourse - ALWAYS.

Congrats on the good lab report!

~ Cindy

[newt]

Viral load a key factor in transmission risk. Blood and semen viral loads are generally well matched when undetectable, perhaps 1 log higher, and yes you are less infections. If you are an "average" undetectable person virus wise your semen viral load will be somewhere between <50 and 1,500.

There are studies in steady straight couples with different HIV antibody status which show 0 transmission for people with viral loads under 1,500 or so, condoms or no condoms. One or two of these studies are nearly big enough to be sound at a population level.

But not everyone is average. People have ended up HIV positive in exactly this situation, there is still a risk of transmission.

The persuasive studies are, by and large, on straight couples. No-one has bothered to look at this for gay (anal) sex properly. << why?

Several people I know in steady monogamous relationships, gay and straight, with different HIV antibody status have ditched condoms always/sometimes for anal/vaginal sex, a decision partly informed by the HIV positive partner having a long time undetectable viral load. They's got well dissed for doing so. In my view it's their choice/risk assessment. These aren't casual shags, they's open with each other and have taken time to reflect on the decision << interestingly when it's time for a viral load test the condoms tend to go back on...hmmm. 

But these freinds are by no means the majority. Most people I know in serodiscordant relationships stick with the rubbers, regardless of undetectable viral load.

But, but, would I, undetectable as I am, go rubberless with my HIV negative man?...no. Would my man with me?...yes. Does my HIV negative man draw comfort from my undetectable viral load?...yes. Does he still worry about acquiring the virus?...yes.

- matt

[BT65]

In my last two relationships, both guys refused to wear condoms.  They have both consistently tested negative.  And I don't feel one iota guiltly about going rubber-less.  It's their choice to not protect themselves.  I can only offer.

[Dragonette]

Hi Sun

I think what you are getting at, is the question that if you are undetectable and there is a condom break or slip, it is not a sure infection, and in fact very low chance of it, and in this sense you are right. I know a lot of negative people have this idea that if a condom breaks they will almost certainly be infected, which is a fear that prevents them from having sex with poz people or enjoying it.

The very first time I had sex with my BF (which was actually the first time I had sex as a knowing poz with a neg) we had this kind of accident, I was already undetectable, and the doctors told me not to worry, that the chance of infeciton is extremely minimal. After 1 year when we had already forgotten about it he tested negative.

So yeah, use a condom, prevent it from breaking/slipping, and know that the odds are very much in your favor that is there is a problem, you will not transmit HIV to your partner.

All the best,